w/a border. I've personally debugged pages which crashed all versions of NN4.x until I either stripped away all CSS save text styling on all parent elements of all , etc. tags or just removed the tags. Those were page with rather complex multi-column CSS layouts, though, so I'm not entirely certain what combination of styles will bring down the house. My experience was that it's best not to position or float any elements that contain , etc. My point is just that the WAI guidelines don't necessarily reflect how things work in the really real world. chris.kaminski == ( design | code | analysis ) ------------------------------------------------------------ People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use. ---------------------------------<< Soren Kierkegaard >> From chris at setmajer.com Mon Jun 10 00:57:01 2002 From: chris at setmajer.com (Chris Kaminski) Date: Mon Jun 10 00:57:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] dangerous CSS, was: Netscape... why? In-Reply-To: <3D040421.3030301@cyberfuddle.com> Message-ID: Thus spake Mark Gallagher: > [0] Does anyone have a good reason why I should upgrade to 1.0? Depends on the OS, I imagine. On MacOS 9, I find the location bar less squirrelly than in RC3. I also recall one of the RCs being rather flaky on OS X, but I can't offhand recall which. On Windows, I haven't seen much wrong with RC3, but then I haven't used it extensively. chris.kaminski == ( design | code | analysis ) ------------------------------------------------------------ When angry, count to four; when very angry, swear. ----------------------------------------<< Mark Twain >> From mark at cyberfuddle.com Mon Jun 10 01:10:01 2002 From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher) Date: Mon Jun 10 01:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] dangerous CSS, was: Netscape... why? References: Message-ID: <3D0442DD.5040304@cyberfuddle.com> Chris Kaminski wrote: > Thus spake Mark Gallagher: > >>[0] Does anyone have a good reason why I should upgrade to 1.0? > > Depends on the OS, I imagine. On MacOS 9, I find the location bar less RedHat Linux > squirrelly than in RC3. I also recall one of the RCs being rather flaky on > OS X, but I can't offhand recall which. Squirrelly? > On Windows, I haven't seen much wrong with RC3, but then I haven't used it > extensively. On Windows, I'm still on 0.9.9 :o). -- Mark Gallagher http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/ From gozz at gozz.com Mon Jun 10 01:13:01 2002 From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis) Date: Mon Jun 10 01:13:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] DOC to HTML and a CMS In-Reply-To: <00ec01c20fa3$6a6b0680$0101c80a@hershel> References: <001401c20f95$30fd8520$0200a8c0@SHASHANK> <00ec01c20fa3$6a6b0680$0101c80a@hershel> Message-ID: >I have a new client who has between 500 and 1000 articles in MS Word format. >He wants to put them on a website. If ColdFusion is an option, there's ways you can manipulate the content of Word docs ... I can't be more specific as I've never done it ... maybe there's someone here who has that can advise. Doing it semi-manually doesn't seem too unreasonable ... I'm able to convert Word Docs into the HTML I want using BBEdit's Word Cleaner and multi-file replace with RegEx's in about 5 mins per page ... Dreamweaver also has a Word cleaner, as I imagine do most other modern HTML editors ... at the rateo f 5 mins per page, it would seem to take about three weeks. -- __________________________________________ - Erik Mattheis (612) 377 2272 http://goZz.com/ Through June 15 9am - 3pm M-F: (952) 838 7698 __________________________________________ From chris at setmajer.com Mon Jun 10 01:14:01 2002 From: chris at setmajer.com (Chris Kaminski) Date: Mon Jun 10 01:14:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Flash, usability, accessibility In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thus spake James S. Huggins (Evolt): > While I would agree that the courts have the job of interpreting, I would > disagree that the constitution expressly grants that authority. > > A quick review of Article III > (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articleiii.html) > provides no such charge. What does 'judicial power' mean then? chris.kaminski == ( design | code | analysis ) ------------------------------------------------------------ If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off. -------------------------------------------<< unknown >> From chris at setmajer.com Mon Jun 10 01:20:01 2002 From: chris at setmajer.com (Chris Kaminski) Date: Mon Jun 10 01:20:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Flash, usability, accessibility In-Reply-To: <3D03E48D.3804.A9E3CF42@localhost> Message-ID: Thus spake aardvark: > hell, of course not... and i would never purport to be an expert to > my clients, either, but since i am aware of legislation that *might* > affect them in some way, it serves them to bring it up, frame it a > bit, and then let them seek appropriate legal counsel... I've got no quarrel with that. Other posters have voiced somewhat stronger opinions. It was to them that I was addressing my comments. > too bad it's often happened that their legal counsel has no idea > about any of this stuff, let alone how it applies to the web... Sad but true. Of course, the law is a huge area. If you go to your hometown small-business lawyer and ask him about foreign trade laws, you're gonna be up the creek. Ditto using him for complex tax or estate situations. Just as with doctors, lawyers can have a specialty, and those specialists are necessary in some cases. > i've never made that argument... i have *always* argued that Flash, > in and of itself, is less accessible than HTML, and is far easier to > make completely inaccessible... that doesn't mean all implementations > are bad, inaccessible, or that HTML versions are always going to be > better... I think that's pretty fair. >> If the latter is the case, then it seems to me that text-heavy sites >> must also risk a lawsuit unless they provide audio and/or pictorial >> versions of their site for those suffering from learning disabilities. > > this is a good point... somehow i suspect the impact on blind users > will receive greater weight than that of learning disabled users... > only time will tell... Probably. As Laurel pointed out, the blind have better lobbying groups. >> You're wrong. In the U.S., the constitution expressly charges the >> courts with interpreting the law. Any interpretation by anyone else is >> persuasive only inasmuch as it is a good prediction of what the courts >> would decide were they to hear the case. > > the courts are only capable of interpreting the law if the case makes > it to court... too many cases are settled outside of court by lawyers > who make educated guesses on their chances of winning (and losing)... > those settlements become a de facto ruling in the sense that later > pending cases look to it to weigh their own chances... Cases settle for a variety of reasons, not all of which have anything to do with the odds of success or failure at trial, and most of which are never known by the general public. A small plaintiff may settle to save legal fees they can't afford, either because the settlement may not be paid for years or because the settlement wouldn't be large enough to cover legal costs. Likewise, a large defendant may settle because their legal counsel costs more than the case, or because they want to avoid the publicity of a full trial, or because they simply don't want to take any risk--however small--that a case may go against them and set an undesirable precedent. The latter is especially true where you have a sympathetic defendant (a little old lady, for example) and a jury trial. In that case, lawyers worry about jury nullification, which is where a group of jurors essentially says 'screw the law' and decides the case based on some other standard for fairness or compassion. > so, if a site i build has a suit filed against it by a blind user, > and my lawyer suggests i settle for a specific sum (in the litigious > U.S., that can easily be a huge sum), then it really doesn't matter > what the judge says since it never gets there, and i'm still out the > cash and have to remedy the problem with the site... You don't have to settle if your lawyer says so. Even assuming you do, the whole grand point of the discussion, AFAIC, is that the legal situation re: the ADA is murky at best. I was addressing an individual who appeared to be making some pretty definite claims based on specious evidence. There just isn't support in current law to say 'you'll get sued if you build any commercial Web site using technique X.' The nature of the site, the business of the site owner, the entirety of the site owner's business and a number of other factors have a /lot/ to do with the likelihood of getting sued. >> None of which is terribly persuasive in a U.S. court. > [snip legal comparisons, because they address *why* they aren't > admissable (which is correct), which isn't really part of my > argument, since i'm discussing out-of-court cases] > > no, but when my lawyer is deciding on settling, then it is... Why? If the evidence isn't admissible in court, your lawyer will know that and factor it in to the decision to settle. >> Non-professionals can track and qualify whatever they like, but when >> conflicts arise between disparate non-professionals or between >> non-professionals and professionals I think it entirely appropriate to >> ask for the backgrounds of those involved in order to weigh the >> relative persuasiveness of their arguments. > > yeah, but i wasn't challenging that, either... Then the problem is...? chris.kaminski == ( design | code | analysis ) ------------------------------------------------------------ Less is more. --------------------------<< Ludwig Mies Van Der Rohe >> From gozz at gozz.com Mon Jun 10 01:22:00 2002 From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis) Date: Mon Jun 10 01:22:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] dangerous CSS, was: Netscape... why? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 12:59 AM -0500 6/10/02, Samir M. Nassar wrote: >Assuming that you are not facetious, assuming that you are serious and >with the knowledge that there are much better CSS people on this list >and off it, then you have the means to reach me. My email address pops >up on every post I make. No, wasn't being facetious ... only challenging you to do something that seems impossible to me! ... I wish I would have said "fixed is buggy" early in this thread instead of realizing I should have after Chris did. At 7:53 AM +0200 6/10/02, Chris Kaminski wrote: >Thus spake Erik Mattheis: > >Position: fixed is buggy or unsupported in just about every browser. >Personally, I just avoid it. If you /really/ need to use it, some JS is >probably necessary. Yup! >As for your example page, I'm visiting in Mozilla and get a plain-jane >version of the page, not the NN6 version. That points out the danger in JS >browser sniffing: if you don't do it right, you'll wind up excluding >browsers that you shouldn't. > >For a fix, try looking for 'Gecko' instead of 'Netscape' in your sniffer. Nice! Thanks. -- __________________________________________ - Erik Mattheis (612) 377 2272 http://goZz.com/ Through June 15 9am - 3pm M-F: (952) 838 7698 __________________________________________ From chris at setmajer.com Mon Jun 10 01:23:01 2002 From: chris at setmajer.com (Chris Kaminski) Date: Mon Jun 10 01:23:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] dangerous CSS, was: Netscape... why? In-Reply-To: <3D0442DD.5040304@cyberfuddle.com> Message-ID: Thus spake Mark Gallagher: >> squirrelly than in RC3. I also recall one of the RCs being rather flaky on >> OS X, but I can't offhand recall which. > > Squirrelly? Yeah. It stops responding to input, refuses to search for the contents via Google (or whatever engine you define) and just generally acts poopy from time to time. It does the same thing in 1.0, but less often and usually doesn't require me to restart the browser to get it to behave. chris.kaminski == ( design | code | analysis ) ------------------------------------------------------------ Success is merely one achievement that covers up a multitude of blunders. -------------------------------<< George Bernard Shaw >> From Evolt at ZName.com Mon Jun 10 01:31:01 2002 From: Evolt at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Evolt)) Date: Mon Jun 10 01:31:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Flash, usability, accessibility In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ========================== Original post: You're wrong. In the U.S., the constitution expressly charges the courts with interpreting the law. My response: While I would agree that the courts have the job of interpreting, I would disagree that the constitution expressly grants that authority. A quick review of Article III (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articleiii.html) provides no such charge. The follow up question: What does 'judicial power' mean then? ========================= Excuse my poor wording. I do not disagree that the courts have the power. Nor do I disagree that such power of interpretation is clearly implied by the constitution. My only minor quibble is with the phrase "expressly charges the courts with interpreting". The constitution does not "expressly" charge anyone with interpreting. Rather, such power to interpret is implied by the granting of judicial power and by the historical and contextual meanings of such phrases. I would simply preferred the original statement to be more along the lines of: In the U.S., the constitution vests judicial power (including the implied power to interpret the law) in the courts. (Of course, here we are speaking only of the United States (the national government). State and local governments are governed by their own constitutions and laws.) It is a minor point, of importance only to me, in the same way that a single semicolon is sometimes important to a programmer. I find I'm already regretting the post. Where is the "undo button"? James S. Huggins ... From chris at setmajer.com Mon Jun 10 01:34:01 2002 From: chris at setmajer.com (Chris Kaminski) Date: Mon Jun 10 01:34:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Tips Message-ID: A couple to make up for all the pseudo-legal prattle and smart-ass remarks: To get 0-width page margins without using invalid attributes (marginwidth, marginheight) in the tag, use the following styles: body { margin-top: -10px; margin-left: -10px; } Place those styles in a stylesheet called with the tag, then reset the margins to 0 for more modern browsers in a stylesheet called by an @import. To keep your code valid while using the onresize= hack to keep NN4.x from dropping styles when the window is resized, set the handler in your script, rather than in the tag, like so: window.onresize = fixNNCSS(); When trying to get CSS layouts working in NN4.x, JavaScript StyleSheets can often be more useful than Cascading StyleSheets, because they allow expressions: ids.main.width = window.innerWidth - 10; ids.main.fontSize = (navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase.indexOf('mac') == -1)? '1em':'1.2em'; chris.kaminski == ( design | code | analysis ) ------------------------------------------------------------ You say it's raining but you're p***ing down my back ------------------------------------<< Sebastian Bach >> From gauthier at placidsound.com Mon Jun 10 02:12:01 2002 From: gauthier at placidsound.com (Gauthier@PlacidSound) Date: Mon Jun 10 02:12:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Gecko wrong rendering width property? Message-ID: <000701c2104e$1dff9da0$0100a8c0@nomad.local> Hi, I've some problems with the width property with css: I've table nested in a div (contentPart1) Gecko interpret my width:100% based on the body width and not on the div width (wich is auto/undefined) http://test.wisard.net/Gauthier/evolt/post10062002/evolt.html http://test.wisard.net/Gauthier/evolt/post10062002/evolt.css Take a look on what IE render: http://test.wisard.net/Gauthier/evolt/post10062002/evolt.gif Does the IE render is compliant ? (width:100% based on the parent element width) I don't want to replace my div's with a table layout Thanks a lot for any clue! Gauthier PS: here is a snip from my css: #contentPart1 { background-color: #EEE; height:300px; clear:right; } #contentPart1 table { width:100%; border:1px solid #000; } From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Mon Jun 10 02:31:01 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jun 10 02:31:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] dangerous CSS, was: Netscape... why? In-Reply-To: <3D0442DD.5040304@cyberfuddle.com> References: <3D0442DD.5040304@cyberfuddle.com> Message-ID: <1023695376.2698.49.camel@yafa> > RedHat Linux w00t! > Squirrelly? I am currently running Moz 1.0.0 on RH Linux 7.3 and the difference between the RC's and pre RCs and 1.0 is marked. On my 550 MHz box the loading times are much faster and Moz is much more stable. I only really used Moz for testing because Opera was faster, but with 1.0 out I am thinking that Moz should become my primary browser. Mainly because it is faster, more stable, and it doesn't seem as jerky as the RC's. Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET - http://redconcepts.net From minid at weblogs.com.ar Mon Jun 10 02:42:00 2002 From: minid at weblogs.com.ar (mini-d) Date: Mon Jun 10 02:42:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver MX feature In-Reply-To: <1023695376.2698.49.camel@yafa> Message-ID: <001a01c21052$32fefe90$0b00a8c0@diego> I've noticed Dreamweaver MX has a the feature to be like Homesite, but isn't so much... For example anyone saw that homesite feature wich convert any rare character like ? ? ? ? ? and ? ? to HTML or ISO entities? I didn't found yet. If someone knows where it is it will be great. Diego Mart?n Lafuente --------------------- Director Creativo http://www.cercleweb.com From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Mon Jun 10 03:15:01 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jun 10 03:15:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] dangerous CSS, was: Netscape... why? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1023698037.2698.96.camel@yafa> Erik, Well it does seem impossible to me too sometimes. And I can spend hours on a style sheet to get it 'just so' with as many browsers as possible. However, 'just so' doesn't always do the job and some calculated flexibility is in order. If I may give an example: For reference: the site is RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net the style sheet can be found at http://redconcepts.net/styles/screen.css I wanted to play with with a tabbed interface using only CSS and DIVs. I found out about style-switching with .class:hover from A List Apart (Again that Eric Mayer fellow ;) ) so I thought to myself 'ooh goody'. What I wanted to achieve was to have the 'tabs' (just anchors with borders) look like tabs and not like boxes over the content area. This I tried with z-index. Now, my main development browsers have been Opera and Konqueror (Linux) and they manage to implement z-index quite nicely. And even with z-index off they render the pages like I 'want' them to. I gather that this is also the correct way to do it since it is my impression that a preceding DIV should get covered by a following DIV if they overlap and no z-index is indicated. However I could be wrong, and more to the point, it doesn't matter that much. When it came to rendering the pages in IE 5 and 5.5 (Windows) the z-index must have been considered a suggestion at best, because z-index wouldn't put my tabs below the content area. I didn't research whether this was a known "MSFT Feature (tm)". In Mozilla (0.9.7 - 1.0.0) (Linux + Windows) it didn't fare any better. But from what I could tell when I researched it it was a known bug. So I am actually implementing things correctly and yet I am confined to a very small browser base with the intended look. So what do I do? Bloat things with JavaScript and sniffers? No. Why? Because after all the work I could just have gone with tables and made my life easier. But who 'chooses' tables? Urg! Gaak! The next revision will see the 'tabs' replaced by boxes floating a few pixels over the content area. This gets rid of cross-browser issues and it actually ends up looking better than what I have now, correct rendering or not. As a side benefit I am actually getting better visual integration with the new logo since it was mentioned that the current one isn't exactly 'original'. Ok, this is a longer post. So did I get what I wanted to start out with? No. Is this bad? Yes and no. Yes it sucks, because all browsers should render CSS2 without bugs. Then again, it isn't exactly a deal killer, since it is actually giving me a better UI than I started out with in planning as an end effect. In the end the version I am working on now looks just as fine in IE, NN, Moz and Opera. It has a Fluid layout, and goes down to 550 pixels in width without horizontal scroll. Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET - http://redconcepts.net From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com Mon Jun 10 03:18:00 2002 From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch) Date: Mon Jun 10 03:18:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Tips Message-ID: >To keep your code valid while using the onresize= hack to keep NN4.x from >dropping styles when the window is resized, set the handler in your script, >rather than in the tag, like so: > >window.onresize = fixNNCSS(); It's window.onresize = fixNNCSS; without the brackets! It would be (and what's wrong with that?). _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From evolt at accessibleinter.net Mon Jun 10 03:20:01 2002 From: evolt at accessibleinter.net (Bill Mason) Date: Mon Jun 10 03:20:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] templates for css In-Reply-To: <3D041B0D.3080704@tapinternet.com> References: <01c20f3d$66da4f00$15551dd1@rudy> <1023662936.1641.354.camel@yafa> <5.1.0.14.0.20020609202147.00aa0a00@mail.face2interface.com> <061801c21024$ae10d140$63d586d9@tina> <000701c2102a$940324a0$3fd487d9@tina> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020610011102.009f9ec0@accessibleinter.net> At 08:20 PM 06/09/2002, Michael Kimsal wrote: >Tina Clarke wrote: > >>http://bluerobot.com/ >> >>I just viewed the above link in netscape 4.73... there is >>nothing there but text... >> >>nothing like it looks in ie5.1se... >> >>I meant when I asked for templates... that they render >>tables in netscape.... does'nt css work in netscape? Since these templates all use CSS instead of tables for layout and Netscape 4.x has many CSS bugs in this area, the templates are coded so that Netscape 4.x cannot see the CSS. In general Netscape 4 has too many CSS bugs to want to count: http://www.richinstyle.com/bugs/netscape4.html >Looks fine in the latest Mozilla and I would therefore assume Netscape 6.2. > >Don't even bother trying to support Netscape 4.73. 4.79, I guess could >be argued it's their latest 4.7 series, so maybe it should be supported >somewhat, but 4.73 is ancient and doesn't deserve the support people >try to give it. Though they are around 2 years apart, .73 and .79 are virtually identical as far as HTML/CSS rendering goes. So if you're committing to support 4.79, you could go virtually back to Netscape 4.5 (1998) and still be basically supporting the same browser. Whether you want to do that is another thread.... Bill Mason Accessible Internet evolt at accessibleinter.net http://www.accessibleinter.net/ From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Mon Jun 10 03:25:01 2002 From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher) Date: Mon Jun 10 03:25:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] browsers render... for particular medium! Nominal (template?) style sheet, etc. Message-ID: First, if you navigate to the w3 (World Wide Web consortium; sorry, it's late & I'm too tired to look it up right now) you will find their whole specification on CSS. Within the CSS2 spec, download their file Appendix A (titled something like AppendixA.html?), which is a COMPLETE sample style sheet. Specifically, it is the style sheet they recommend HTML 4.0 browsers use while rendering. So it makes a good default, or a starting place, for anyone who wants a starting point to build a slightly different one. Second, Tina, don't worry about not using tags, etc. Remember that browsers RENDER elements and attribute values for their medium. Using CSS you CAN declare a medium, but don't need to (usually). For example, a speaking browser has to know to add the appropriate vocal inflection for (or whatever). So you don't have to specify the relative term for each different medium (although you can; the capability is there). Relax, use good (i.e., functional) coding, and you won't have accessibility issues because the browser's programmers already took care of that. Cheers -- Carol Stein techwatcher at accesswriters.com From evolt at accessibleinter.net Mon Jun 10 03:39:01 2002 From: evolt at accessibleinter.net (Bill Mason) Date: Mon Jun 10 03:39:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] browsers render... for particular medium! Nominal (template?) style sheet, etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020610013519.009fe1e0@accessibleinter.net> At 01:23 AM 06/10/2002, you wrote: >Within the CSS2 spec, download their file >Appendix A (titled something like AppendixA.html?), which is a COMPLETE >sample style sheet. Specifically, it is the style sheet they recommend >HTML 4.0 browsers use while rendering. So it makes a good default, or a >starting place, for anyone who wants a starting point to build a >slightly different one. Maybe it's just my taste or my coding needs, but I thought their sheet was overkill. I use this one sometimes, with my own modifications, as a base: http://www.richinstyle.com/masterclass/perfection.html#base Bill Mason Accessible Internet evolt at accessibleinter.net http://www.accessibleinter.net/ From chris at setmajer.com Mon Jun 10 03:52:01 2002 From: chris at setmajer.com (Chris Kaminski) Date: Mon Jun 10 03:52:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Tips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6A2ECC56-7C4E-11D6-A40B-0003931B427C@setmajer.com> On Monday, June 10, 2002, at 10:17 AM, Peter-Paul Koch wrote: > window.onresize = fixNNCSS; Duh. > without the brackets! It would be > (and what's > wrong with that?). onResize is not a valid attribute in XHTML. chris.kaminski { functionNewMedia :: } From evolt at accessibleinter.net Mon Jun 10 03:58:01 2002 From: evolt at accessibleinter.net (Bill Mason) Date: Mon Jun 10 03:58:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Tips In-Reply-To: <6A2ECC56-7C4E-11D6-A40B-0003931B427C@setmajer.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020610015314.009f9c20@accessibleinter.net> At 01:45 AM 06/10/2002, Chris Kaminski wrote: >>without the brackets! It would be >>(and what's wrong with that?). > >onResize is not a valid attribute in XHTML. So you just make it Bill Mason Accessible Internet evolt at accessibleinter.net http://www.accessibleinter.net/ From persist1 at io.com Mon Jun 10 04:07:01 2002 From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick) Date: Mon Jun 10 04:07:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Tips In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020610015314.009f9c20@accessibleinter.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Bill Mason wrote: > At 01:45 AM 06/10/2002, Chris Kaminski wrote: > >>without the brackets! It would be > >>(and what's wrong with that?). > > > >onResize is not a valid attribute in XHTML. > > > So you just make it Umm, that's rather the point - If you're trying to validate as XHTML (Transitional OR Strict) it'll trash any attempt to use onresize as an event applied to the BODY. In fact, my houseguest tells me that it's not supported by XHTML at all (presumably because canvas geometry has nothing to do with markup). -- Ben Henick Web Author At-Large Managing Editor http://www.io.com/persist1/ http://www.digital-web.com/ persist1 at io.com bmh at digital-web.com -- "Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?" "I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid." "We will disguise ourselves as a cow." "Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!" From chris at setmajer.com Mon Jun 10 04:21:01 2002 From: chris at setmajer.com (Chris Kaminski) Date: Mon Jun 10 04:21:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Tips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <78C83BA0-7C52-11D6-A40B-0003931B427C@setmajer.com> On Monday, June 10, 2002, at 11:06 AM, Ben Henick wrote: > If you're trying to validate as XHTML (Transitional OR Strict) > it'll trash > any attempt to use onresize as an event applied to the BODY. In > fact, my > houseguest tells me that it's not supported by XHTML at all (presumably > because canvas geometry has nothing to do with markup). It's also invalid for HTML 4.01: chris.kaminski { functionNewMedia :: } From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com Mon Jun 10 04:30:02 2002 From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch) Date: Mon Jun 10 04:30:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] Tips Message-ID: >>If you're trying to validate as XHTML (Transitional OR Strict) >>it'll trash >>any attempt to use onresize as an event applied to the BODY. In >>fact, my >>houseguest tells me that it's not supported by XHTML at all (presumably >>because canvas geometry has nothing to do with markup). > >It's also invalid for HTML 4.01: > > Strange, very strange. Personally I tend to ignore the specs if they don't make sense. BTW: focus and blur aren't valid for the BODY tag either, but I use them anyway. ppk _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From n at industriality.com Mon Jun 10 04:44:00 2002 From: n at industriality.com (Nik Schramm) Date: Mon Jun 10 04:44:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Tips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c21063$28ad54d0$0b00a8c0@didda> >>Strange, very strange. What's strange about it ? In Javascript onresize is a property of the window object and not of document.body, so it makes perfect sense to use window.onresize = "foobar"; to set it. Also, as one of the main points of XHTML is the separation of style, scripting and content, placing a javascript statement inside a Then change your submit button from type="submit" to type="button", and add onClick="submitsThis();" You should be good to go, as long as your users have javascript enabled... -Ken -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Bill Haenel Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 2:39 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] with Enter, onBlur is preceded by onSubmit When submitting a form in IE 6 and 5.5 (and assumably 5.0) my form field's onBlur event is being preceded by the form's onSubmit event. The onBlur does occur, but after the onSubmit. This happens ONLY WHEN the Enter key is used to submit the form. When actually clicking on the submit button this does not happen. I have tried changing the onBlur to an OnChange (it's a text field), but the same occurs. Is this normal? How come only IE? NN4+ all seem to be fine. How might I fix this? Anyone? Anyone? Thx, Bill -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From pixelmech at yahoo.com Thu Jun 13 14:55:08 2002 From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa) Date: Thu Jun 13 14:55:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] MT blog/ CSS not rendering Message-ID: <20020613195459.16483.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, I've since got my Moveable Type Blog stuff working, but I am having a very strange problem. You can look at my page rendered without the css at: http://www.pixelmech.com/index.php Go ahead and look at the code. As you can see, the link ref's my stylesheet which, is indeed loaded in the very same directory as index.php. Now, if I go and FTP up another copy of the stylesheet, everything will correct itself and the page will display with the styles. But if I again rebuild the blog after making a change or an entry, the page will blow up again - and again, if I simply reload the css, it will work. I can't for the life of me figure out what reloading an exact copy of a css file fixes. Certainly MT is generating a dynamic page of sorts, but the link tag is right in there as is the css...I'm lost. Tom __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com Thu Jun 13 15:02:01 2002 From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com) Date: Thu Jun 13 15:02:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ie css Message-ID: >The problem like this is, I'd like to be able to use a different graphic at some >point, without having to play with the width controls again. . . Hmm.... haven't tried this, but it's twisted enough that it might work. Add "display:inline;" to the styles and see what happens. Have fun, Arlen Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department DNRC 224 Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com ---------------------------------------------- In God we trust; all others must provide data. ---------------------------------------------- Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone. If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it. From hwang at nd.edu Thu Jun 13 15:07:01 2002 From: hwang at nd.edu (Diego H. Wang) Date: Thu Jun 13 15:07:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS 5 redirect variables References: <20020613170310.7EEE8C1A0@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <00a401c21315$f8efc7e0$8c524a81@DIEGO> Hi, I am using IIS 5. I am making a redirection on one directory. I want to use those redirect Variables such as $S, ! etc. Anybody can give me an example? Especially, I am looking at the ! variable. I want to use this variable to prevent redirecting a subdirectory. How should I use it? Thanx, Diego ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 12:03 PM Subject: thelist digest, Vol 1 #2386 - 37 msgs > Send thelist mailing list submissions to > thelist at lists.evolt.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thelist > > You can reach the person managing the list at > thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of thelist digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Web-based wysiwyg html editors ? (Paul Woods) > 2. Re: Web-based wysiwyg html editors ? (Androse Rosewood) > 3. Re: idealism (Techwatcher) > 4. cookie pb (Carine Lambert) > 5. Re: Re: Web-based wysiwyg html editors ? (Michael Kimsal) > 6. Re: Web-based wysiwyg html editors ? (Michael Kimsal) > 7. Re: Height attribute on TABLE (was Re: [thelist] Accesibility Tip) (Techwatcher) > 8. Re: Web-based wysiwyg html editors ? (Michael Kimsal) > 9. CSS question (Raymond Camden) > 10. Re: Validation > pressure on software companies?? (Techwatcher) > 11. RE: pattern match three or more of the same character r > epeated in a row (Means, Eric D) > 12. Re: CSS question (Samir M. Nassar) > 13. Re: not wrap text around graphic (Techwatcher) > 14. Re: SSI in XML (Techwatcher) > 15. RE: CSS question (Raymond Camden) > 16. RE: CSS question (Samir M. Nassar) > 17. js form validation problem (Karen J. Bowen) > 18. RE: CSS question (Raymond Camden) > 19. RE: pattern match three or more of the same character r > epeated in a row (Plunkett, Matt) > 20. Re: Validation > pressure on software companies?? (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com) > 21. Re: Validation > pressure on software companies?? (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com) > 22. Re: ie css (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com) > 23. Re: Web-based wysiwyg html editors ? (Androse Rosewood) > 24. perl on the localhost (Paul J White) > 25. Re: Re: SSI in XML (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com) > 26. Re: pattern match three or more of the same character repeated in a row (cspruck at mindspring.com) > 27. RE: perl on the localhost (Plunkett, Matt) > 28. Re: Re: SSI in XML (Joel Konkle-Parker) > 29. tip (ashok at magicalkenya.com) > 30. Re: js form validation problem (Jeff C) > 31. Re: anyone have Movable Type (blog) experience? (Michele Foster) > 32. RE: anyone have Movable Type (blog) experience? (Tony Crockford) > 33. RE: anyone have Movable Type (blog) experience? (Means, Eric D) > 34. RE: Web-based wysiwyg html editors ? (Shashank Tripathi) > 35. Re: js form validation problem (Howard Cheng) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > From: "Paul Woods" > To: > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:05:07 -0500 > Subject: [thelist] Re: Web-based wysiwyg html editors ? > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Here is a link to a page that lists several, of varying quality. > > http://www.bris.ac.uk/ISC/cms/ttw.html > > I liked WebEdit Pro at http://www.webedpro.com/index.html. It's IE 5+ only > though, and comes as part of a larger site management system. It's pretty > cheap - $145. You could throw out the management part and just use the > editor and it would still be a good deal. > > And by the way, most IE-only editors do not use ActiveX controls, they use > IFrames, JavaScript and MSHTML and take advantage of built-in IE > capabilities. > > Paul > > Paul R. Woods > Flying Pylon Web Solutions > http://www.flyingpylon.com > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:14:38 +0200 > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > From: Androse Rosewood > Subject: Re: [thelist] Web-based wysiwyg html editors ? > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Vu "Re: [thelist] Web-based wysiwyg html editors ?", du 13/06/02 ? 8:42 -0400 : > >http://www.labs4.com/go/index.php is a good place to start. They've got a > >decent standalone editor for $12. > > Thanks. > > >We are working on a Mozilla-based version of a WYSIWYG editor > >for our LogiCreate.com app server, but Mozilla still basically sucks for > >this sort of stuff, and it'll be some time before it works even remotely > >as well as the IE/Windows component. > > Are you using XBL, as they suggest it here : > http://www.mozilla.org/editor/editor-embedding.html#Composer_embedded_in_a_w eb_page > ? > Do you think there is any chance I can get something working in, say, > 3 days ? I have never worked with the mozilla platform yet (XUL, etc). > > This example : > http://www.siteexperts.com/ie5/htmlarea/page1.asp > ...uses the IE5+/Win tag to achieve exactly what i'm > looking to do, at least i think it does, because I don't have a > windows machine with me right now. > > > - androse > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > From: "Techwatcher" > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:15:36 -0400 > Subject: [thelist] Re: idealism > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > > casting idealism in a bad light? For me, I'm trying to run away from > > mediocrity... > > > In my opinion idealism makes people loose track of the whole > picture and > > > waste resources which could have been spent better somewhere else. > If > > > you > > > want an ideal solution you are going to chase after it for the rest > of > > > your > > > life. Idealism can make one fanatic und less objective. There is > always > > > something you can make better, it's just the question if it's worth > > > doing > > > it. > > Actually, for those of us who are waaaay overeducated, the question of > when to optimise and when to "satisfice" comes down to mathematics. The > above are terms from Game Theory, which apply to certain *classes of > problems*. Many other *classes of problems* do have optimal solutions > which it makes sense to seek. So, sometimes, do the best possible job. > Other times, good enough IS good enough (improvements will require > extraordinary effort in return for diminishingly small improvements). > It can be useful to learn how to tell the difference (way beyond the > scope of this list, though). (-8 > > Cheers > Carol Stein > techwatcher at accesswriters.com > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > From: "Carine Lambert" > To: > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:33:36 +0200 > Subject: [thelist] cookie pb > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Something strenge happen with win98, ie6. > > The machine accepts cookies except the one with an expiry date specify. > Do you have an idea why and how to modify this. > > Thanks > Carine > -- > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:32:34 -0400 > From: Michael Kimsal > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] Re: Web-based wysiwyg html editors ? > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Paul Woods wrote: > > > And by the way, most IE-only editors do not use ActiveX controls, they use > > IFrames, JavaScript and MSHTML and take advantage of built-in IE > > capabilities. > > To the best of my knowledge, the MSHTML was considered an activex > control. Perhaps my terminology is wrong? > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:34:59 -0400 > From: Michael Kimsal > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] Web-based wysiwyg html editors ? > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Androse Rosewood wrote: > > > > > Are you using XBL, as they suggest it here : > > http://www.mozilla.org/editor/editor-embedding.html#Composer_embedded_in_a_w eb_page > > > > That document is just suggesting that's how the mozilla dev team > would approach it if they build one, which they haven't yet (released, > anyway). > > I believe we're using XUL, but I'm not the person developing it, > and he's out of town today, so I can't ask him. :( In any event, it's > still a long ways from being useful under Mozilla because there are > security settings which you need to change and then restart the browser. > > > > ? > > Do you think there is any chance I can get something working in, say, > > 3 days ? I have never worked with the mozilla platform yet (XUL, etc). > > > > This example : > > http://www.siteexperts.com/ie5/htmlarea/page1.asp > > ...uses the IE5+/Win tag to achieve exactly what i'm > > looking to do, at least i think it does, because I don't have a > > windows machine with me right now. > > > > > > - androse > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 7 > From: "Techwatcher" > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: Height attribute on TABLE (was Re: [thelist] Accesibility Tip) > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:34:36 -0400 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > >> What's up with the W3 validator? It tells me for example that the > height > > >> attribute for tables is not supported in 4.01 transitional. Can > this be? > > > > > > Well, just read the spec and you'll see that there isn't a height > attribute: > > > > > > http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html#edef-TABLE > > > > > > Height on TABLE was introduced by Netscape in version 1.1, but has > never > > > been part of any W3C HTML specification. > > > > So should I have used the tags to control height to conform? > This seems > > to be valid, but also depreciated. Why is this? Is tere a better way > to > > control table height? > > > > Will pages conforming to the w3 validator's standards always render > > correctly? > > > > I have used the "background" attribute in some instances which is not > > validated. It depreciates very well, but it does not conform to the > w3c > > specs. I don't think I should slavishly stick to the w3c > recommondation in > > this case. Any other opinions? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Sebastian > > > > Again, from reading the CSS2 specs, I suspect height is not supported > for tables because the standards developers are moving towards > reconceptualizing the block (and block-like) thingies. We are moving in > the direction of "all stuff to be REPLACED (such as IMG)" must have > height and width (or size) attributes specified. All stuff not to be > REPLACED (i.e., TABLE tag) may NOT have size attributes. > > The height & width are supposed to be there so the browser can allocate > space while it's following the rules to render the DOM, after all. > Table doesn't need a height (or width) according to this model. All its > sub-objects have containing boxes with their own padding/border/margin, > so the total height will be computed. > > If you're trying to control a table's height to make it printable, you > can create a CSS just for that medium.... It won't have any effect on > the other (screen) rendering. > > Cheers -- > techwatcher (Carol Stein) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:41:26 -0400 > From: Michael Kimsal > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] Web-based wysiwyg html editors ? > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > > Do you think there is any chance I can get something working in, say, > > 3 days ? I have never worked with the mozilla platform yet (XUL, etc). > > Not under Mozilla, no way, not even if you've worked with it for months. > > > > > This example : > > http://www.siteexperts.com/ie5/htmlarea/page1.asp > > ...uses the IE5+/Win tag to achieve exactly what i'm > > looking to do, at least i think it does, because I don't have a > > windows machine with me right now. > > Very strange, cause it's not working under IE6 on my W2k box. Perhaps > it's *only* for IE5? This points up an issue even under > supposedly homogenous 'MS' platforms - often wildly differing behaviour > on seemingly similar platforms. To illustrate, we've got the same > base software on our machines and a client's machine, but his > 'luck' with our visual editor (MSHTML component) is bad compared with > ours - his system keeps reformatting embedded PHP code and whatnot in > the HTML area - it doesn't on ours. He's got an earlier version of > Office installed, but that's about the only difference between the > systems. But it makes a *huge* difference in how the stuff behaves. :( > > Michael Kimsal > http://www.logicreate.com > 734-480-9961 > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 9 > From: "Raymond Camden" > To: > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:39:08 -0400 > Subject: [thelist] CSS question > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > I've got (what I hope is) a simple CSS question. On my personal home > page I use a 'block' style effect to wrap my content. However, my image > on the home page (I'm the older one ;) bleeds out of the box on both IE > and Mozilla. Any ideas? .jeff suggested this CSS style: > > .content img { > display: block; > } > > but it didn't work for me. .content is: > > .content { > /* width:100%;*/ > min-width:120px; > /* height: 100%; */ > /* top, right */ > margin:0px 20px 20px 20px; > > border:1px solid black; > background-color:white; > padding:10px; > } > > and the source using it is: > >
>
Welcome
> >
Welcome to the personal home page of Raymond K. Camden, > Principal Spectra > Compliance Engineer for href="http://www.macromedia.com">Macromedia, Inc. > On my home page you will find links to my ColdFusion development > as well as > [deletia] >
> >
> > ======================================================================= > Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Macromedia > > Email : jedimaster at macromedia.com > Yahoo IM : morpheus > > "My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 10 > From: "Techwatcher" > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:43:13 -0400 > Subject: [thelist] Re: Validation > pressure on software companies?? > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > Watching this list for a while I realized everybody thinks that > validation > > is important. > > > > I've seen valid code that breaks on NN 4.5 Mac. So the validator > seems to me > > no measure to assure correct page display. > > > > This leads me to the conclusion that the only reason validation makes > sense, > > is to discipline software companies to stick to some standard. I am > really > > not understanding this otherwhise. > > > > I personally clearly prefer a page that works and depreciates nicely > over a > > page that sticks to some standard which causes display errors. Please > help > > me to understand. I feel really funky, because everybody makes such a > big > > deal about validation and then in some instances the page does not > even > > display correctly! What's the point then?? > > > > Sebastian > > > > Obviously, if you're new to Web "design" you weren't coding back in > 1996 (as I was). (-8 > If you had been coding for some years, you might have noticed that the > Web pages you created that were great a year or two ago, now are either > dated, or just don't really work well compared to newer models. More > importantly, they are hard to update. > > The more one deviates from standards, the harder they are to update. > > I try to read the standards now and stick to them (I've been trying to > use XHTML v.1 for over year, for example). It just makes life much > easier down the road. > > Cheers -- > techwatcher (Carol Stein) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 11 > From: "Means, Eric D" > To: "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" > Subject: RE: [thelist] pattern match three or more of the same character r > epeated in a row > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:40:35 -0500 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cspruck at mindspring.com [mailto:cspruck at mindspring.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 6:54 PM > > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Subject: Re: [thelist] pattern match three or more of the same > character repeated in a row > > > > > > > > On Wed, 12 Jun 2002 13:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Julie O'Neil > wrote: > > > > I need to match if a given string contains three or more of the same > character repeated in a row. > > ------------------------------------------------ > > > > Julie, > > > > Something along the lines of this should work for you: > > > > [a-zA-Z0-9]{3,} > > While this will match 3 characters, it *won't* match the *same* character > repeated three times. The OP wanted to match these: aaa bbb xxx zzz but not > these: aab xea drf. As I read the question, anyway. > > Unfortunately I don't have an answer. If you're using Perl you'll have to > use some sort of look-ahead or look-behind... read the regex man page here: > http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.6.1/pod/perlre.html for more info. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 12 > Subject: Re: [thelist] CSS question > From: "Samir M. Nassar" > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Date: 13 Jun 2002 09:05:07 -0500 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > URL? > > It is good to see things 'in the wild' > > > Samir M. Nassar > RedConcepts.NET - http://redconcepts.net > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 13 > From: "Techwatcher" > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > CC: jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:50:54 -0400 > Subject: [thelist] Re: not wrap text around graphic > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > Does anyone know how to make the text on this: > > http://cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders/ > > not wrap round the graphic in ie? (and wherever else it may do so; I > only have > > ie6 on hand). > > Also, if anyone knows how to make the tip-top header not show up > behind the > > picture like the last time i looked, that'd be handy too > > The BR tag with attribute CLEAR has been around forever, more or less. > (-8 > > I don't know off-hand which browsers support
but > the effect certainly should be to make the graphic have text wrapping > on NEITHER side of it. If you use an IMG with align = left, you would > wrap the text to the right by using BR CLEAR="RIGHT", for example -- I > believe that works pretty much anywhere that renders images. > > Cheers -- > techwatcher (Carol Stein) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 14 > From: "Techwatcher" > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > CC: jjk3 at msstate.edu > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:54:10 -0400 > Subject: [thelist] Re: SSI in XML > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > > For the design of my website (http://www.ballsome.com/test/), I > > really need to have a Server-Side Include in an XML document. As of > > my knowledge, however, my hosting service doesn't support that, only > > SSI with HTML. The file that needs to be included is an automatically > > generated text file with markup, news.txt. I've tried the following > > things: > > > > 1. rename index.xml to index.html of type text/xml > > didn't work, SSI parser apparently needs text/html > > Don't know your server, but mine (Linux/Apache) requires the file > extension to be Shtml, not html (that is, shtml) in order to process > SSI. > > Cheers -- > techwatcher (Carol Stein) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 15 > From: "Raymond Camden" > To: > Subject: RE: [thelist] CSS question > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:55:30 -0400 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Heh, I was hoping to avoid showing off my disgustingly simple and boring > home page... > > www.camdenfamily.com/morpheus > > The issue is right there on the home page. > > ======================================================================= > Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Macromedia > > Email : jedimaster at macromedia.com > Yahoo IM : morpheus > > "My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Samir M. Nassar > > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 10:05 AM > > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Subject: Re: [thelist] CSS question > > > > > > URL? > > > > It is good to see things 'in the wild' > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 16 > Subject: RE: [thelist] CSS question > From: "Samir M. Nassar" > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Date: 13 Jun 2002 09:19:31 -0500 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Raymond, > > CSS is many things, least of which boring. ;) > > Samir > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 17 > Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:02:03 +1000 > From: "Karen J. Bowen" > To: thelist > Subject: [thelist] js form validation problem > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > I'm having a problem with returning the focus to the correct form > element after doing simple js validation. > > The JS is: > > function chkNum(sName) { > var sv = sName.value > if (isNaN(sv)) { > alert("Please enter a valid number."); > sName.select(); > sName.focus(); > } > return true; > } > > > And the form element calls it thusly: > > onchange="chkNum(this)"> > > The problem is that while the correct element is being selected, the > focus is going to the next element. > > This is bizarre, and I just can't see why it's happening. (it's > occurring in both moz & ie) > > Thanks for any help! > > Karen > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 18 > From: "Raymond Camden" > To: > Subject: RE: [thelist] CSS question > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:05:49 -0400 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Oh no - I was speaking specifically about my home page. :> I agree with > you 100%. I've been in the biz for years now and _love_ how easy CSS > makes things. It's certainly better than typing ten thousand > times. > > -Ray > > > > > > > Raymond, > > > > CSS is many things, least of which boring. ;) > > > > Samir > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 19 > From: "Plunkett, Matt" > To: "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" > Subject: RE: [thelist] pattern match three or more of the same character r > epeated in a row > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:03:52 -0400 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Untested, but maybe: > > /(\w)\1{2}/ work? > > The backreference should refer to whatever matches in the parens. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 20 > Subject: Re: [thelist] Validation > pressure on software companies?? > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:14:50 -0500 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > >I've seen valid code that breaks on NN 4.5 Mac. So the validator seems to > me > >no measure to assure correct page display. > > You're right, it isn't. The best analogy I can come up with for this is the > following program: > > main() > { > int x, y, z; > > x = 5; > y = 6; > > z = x / y; > > } > > This program will compile without errors. Yet z will be 0, not 0.833333 > (the real answer for 5/6). It is perfectly valid C code, it just gives the > wrong answer because the programmer used the wrong data types. It > validates, but is wrong nonetheless. > > It's quite possible a valid HTML file will display badly. It's also > possible for a valid HTML file to display properly. Validation does not > replace testing. Validation only assures you that the code you've written > makes syntactic sense, which means that another browser that you haven't > tested, and which might implement the standard in a more strict manner, > won't have a problem with the code. It's up to you as the designber to make > sure that the valid code you've written actually displays the page the way > you want it displayed. Browsers are keyboard readers, not mind readers. > They do what they're told; it's up to you to make sure you actually mean > them to do what you're telling them to do. > > >This leads me to the conclusion that the only reason validation makes > sense, > >is to discipline software companies to stick to some standard. I am really > >not understanding this otherwhise. > > Pretty much correct. If you write valid code, then any user agent which > follows the standard will be able to handle your code. That includes voice > browsers, PDA's, and refrigerators. > > And that's what's important about writing valid code. People who create new > user agents have a standard in front of them, and they'll code their user > agent to expect markup that follows that standard. They may also code it to > accept previous browser foibles, and perhaps even invent some of their own, > but I wouldn't be too sure that they would support other browsers faults, > and we can't predict what their new foibles will be. Invalid code which > works in a browser today may quite possibly break in a future browser, > especially one expecting the more rigidly defined XHTML. > > I look at writing valid code like the auto mechanic in the (US-centric > reference alert) Fram oil filters commercial. I can either take the time > *now* to write valid code, or take the time later to rewrite what I've > written as valid code. It's a "pay me now, or pay me later" kind of thing. > I think the smart choice is to do it now. > > Have fun, > Arlen > Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department > DNRC 224 > > Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com > ---------------------------------------------- > In God we trust; all others must provide data. > ---------------------------------------------- > Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone. > If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it. > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 21 > Subject: Re: [thelist] Validation > pressure on software companies?? > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:18:47 -0500 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > >In the environment I work in > >now, it is very much a software development > >skewed thing, more than a web thing. > > I wonder how many developers refuse to use lint or steadfastly ignore the > warning messages the compiler puts out? They validate their code every > single day, in one shape or form. They shouldn't be opposed to validating > web code, unless they don't understand what it is. > > Have fun, > Arlen > Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department > DNRC 224 > > Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com > ---------------------------------------------- > In God we trust; all others must provide data. > ---------------------------------------------- > Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone. > If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it. > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 22 > Subject: Re: [thelist] ie css > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:31:21 -0500 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > >Does anyone know how to make the text on this: > >http://cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders/ > >not wrap round the graphic in ie? (and wherever else it may do so; I only > have > >ie6 on hand). > > I don't have IE6, so I'm not sure what you're seeing. But here's something: > > If what you're after is a blank column underneath the graphic, there are a > couple of things to try. If you know how many pixels wide your > "nothere.gif" is, use that pixel width to set the left margin of the class > "right." You could also use CSS-P to position the "right" box that many > pixels from the left edge, as well. > > If what you're trying to control is which paragraph starts below the > graphic, style it with a "clear: left;" and it'll wait until the graphic > finishes to begin. > > Does that help? > > Have fun, > Arlen > Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department > DNRC 224 > > Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com > ---------------------------------------------- > In God we trust; all others must provide data. > ---------------------------------------------- > Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone. > If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it. > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 23 > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:29:11 +0200 > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > From: Androse Rosewood > Subject: Re: [thelist] Web-based wysiwyg html editors ? > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Vu "Re: [thelist] Web-based wysiwyg html editors ?", du 13/06/02 ? 8:42 -0400 : > >IE > >is still the only platform for easy to use, powerful, browser-based > >content-management, unless you pay exhorbitant amounts for slow Java > >applets > >(realobjects.de has one, but even that one, iirc, doesn't work with > >snippets, > >but only full pages - please correct me if I'm wrong someone!) > > You *can* work with snippets. > And the thing is terribly bloated and expensive. > :( > > - androse > > --__--__-- > > Message: 24 > From: "Paul J White" > To: > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:31:31 +0100 > Organization: BW3.CO.UK > Subject: [thelist] perl on the localhost > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > Sure it is...sounds like either you don't have Perl in your path or you > > don't have the testperl.pl script. To find out if you have Perl in your > > path type "perl -v" at your command prompt. It should spew out a whole > load > > of information about what version of Perl you are running. > > > Thanks for taking the time to answer, but I'm not so dumb as to bother the > list with a question until I have ascertained the obvious - indeed, my > original post said: > > "Install Perl and make sure that the PATH setting in your > autoexec.bat includes the directory C:\perl\bin. > > >>Done that" > > and the perltest script runs on a remote server but not locally. Any more > ideas out there? > > Cheers, Paul. > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 25 > Subject: Re: [thelist] Re: SSI in XML > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:41:03 -0500 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > >Don't know your server, but mine (Linux/Apache) requires the file > >extension to be Shtml, not html (that is, shtml) in order to process > >SSI. > > As with anything else in Apache, that's changeable. Adding "AddHandler > server-parsed .html" to the config file, for example, will now tell apache > to parse .html files as well. > > Have fun, > Arlen > Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department > DNRC 224 > > Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com > ---------------------------------------------- > In God we trust; all others must provide data. > ---------------------------------------------- > Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone. > If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it. > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 26 > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:48:11 -0400 > From: > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] pattern match three or more of the same character repeated in a row > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > ************************************************* > cspruck at mindspring.com wrote: > > Julie, > > Something along the lines of this should work for you: > > [a-zA-Z0-9]{3,} > > O'Neil wrote: > > Nope doesn't work - it does catch a word that contains three repeated characters but it also catches ANY word. > ************************************************* > > Julie, > > My apologies for the flub - I got interrupted several times while trying to reply and lost sight of what you were trying to do. > > You still haven't told us what you're using for regex, so this may or may not work depending on your variation of regex. Something close to what Matt suggested worked for me in ColdFusion Studio: > > ([a-zA-Z0-9])\1{2} > > The range within parentheses grabs a single character, then the backreference (the \1) recalls it once, then finds two more. A lot depends on what you're searching against, too. You can find three consecutive letters within a word, but the expression might be different for a single three-letter word if that's what you're trying to grab. Hope this is more help! > > Chris > > --__--__-- > > Message: 27 > From: "Plunkett, Matt" > To: "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" > Subject: RE: [thelist] perl on the localhost > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:51:49 -0400 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > I sense hostility. > > I'm happy that you are entirely sure of what is NOT the problem, hopefully > you'll be able out what IS the problem at some point. > > In any case, what I was saying was that just having it in autoexec.bat is > not enough unless you have actually run autoexec.bat manually, or by > rebooting. Just having it in your autoexec doesn't automagically add it to > your path. So I offered a simple test for determining if it was really in > your path, since the error message is the one you get if Windows can't find > perl. > > HAND. Good luck with your problem. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul J White [SMTP:pjw at bw3.co.uk] > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 10:32 AM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] perl on the localhost > > Thanks for taking the time to answer, but I'm not so dumb as to > bother the > list with a question until I have ascertained the obvious - indeed, > my > original post said: > > "Install Perl and make sure that the PATH setting in your > autoexec.bat includes the directory C:\perl\bin. > > >>Done that" > > and the perltest script runs on a remote server but not locally. Any > more > ideas out there? > > Cheers, Paul. > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > --__--__-- > > Message: 28 > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] Re: SSI in XML > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:09:25 -0500 (CDT) > From: Joel Konkle-Parker > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > As with anything else in Apache, that's changeable. Adding "AddHandler > > server-parsed .html" to the config file, for example, will now tell > > apache > > to parse .html files as well. > > > My server currently parses .html files for SSI. You're saying that all I need to > do is put 'AddHandler server-parsed .xml' in my .htaccess and it'll parse my XML > files for SSI? > > -joeljkp > > ------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.ballsome.com > > --__--__-- > > Message: 29 > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > From: ashok at magicalkenya.com > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:25:40 +0300 > Subject: [thelist] tip > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > ="Junglee"> > When images are stored in a database table as blobs it makes sense to > calculate and store > the original dimensions of the image in the table. an upload program can > calculate the dimension > of the images , for e.g. in vb it could look like : > > '--code begin > Dim header As String > Dim f As Integer > filename="c:\top_e.gif" > Open filename For Input As #f > If Lcase(Right(filename, 3))="gif" Then > header = Input(10, f) > Close #f > wHi = Mid(header, 8, 1) > wLo = Mid(header, 7, 1) > hHi = Mid(header, 10, 1) > hLo = Mid(header, 9, 1) > w = Asc(wHi) * 256 + Asc(wLo) > h = Asc(hHi) * 256 + Asc(hLo) > Elseif Lcase(Right(filename, 3))="jpg" Then > header = Input(167, f) > Close #f > wHi = Asc(Midbp(header, 166, 1)) > wLo = Asc(Midbp(header, 167, 1)) > hHi = Asc(Midbp(header, 164, 1)) > hLo = Asc(Midbp(header, 165, 1)) > w = (wHi) * 256 + (wLo) > h = (hHi) * 256 + (hLo) > End If > '--code end > > > > ------ > Ashok Hariharan > http://www.unganisha.org > Disclaimer : The contents of this mail should not be construed as a "if > you attack me, I'll blast your arse" veiled threat > ------ > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 30 > From: "Jeff C" > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] js form validation problem > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:30:21 +0000 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Try changing the return true to return false. > > > >From: "Karen J. Bowen" > >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >To: thelist > >Subject: [thelist] js form validation problem > >Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:02:03 +1000 > > > >I'm having a problem with returning the focus to the correct form > >element after doing simple js validation. > > > >The JS is: > > > >function chkNum(sName) { > > var sv = sName.value > > if (isNaN(sv)) { > > alert("Please enter a valid number."); > > sName.select(); > > sName.focus(); > > } > > return true; > >} > > > > > >And the form element calls it thusly: > > > > >onchange="chkNum(this)"> > > > >The problem is that while the correct element is being selected, the > >focus is going to the next element. > > > >This is bizarre, and I just can't see why it's happening. (it's > >occurring in both moz & ie) > > > >Thanks for any help! > > > >Karen > > > > > > > >-- > >For unsubscribe and other options, including > >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 31 > From: "Michele Foster" > To: > Subject: Re: [thelist] anyone have Movable Type (blog) experience? > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:01:34 -0400 > Organization: WordPro Services > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > Mark, > > How does one delete the Melody account? Just playing with MT for my sis .. > and didn't see a way to delete that account. P.S. I know nothing in the > way of perl/php .. simple instructions greatly appreciated. :) > > TIA, > > Michele > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Gallagher" > > | > | As soon as you've got MT working, and have set up author accounts and so > | on, delete the Melody/Nelson account. If you don't, you never know what > | technically proficient but morally lacking person might come in and > | start screwing around. > | > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 32 > From: "Tony Crockford" > To: > Subject: RE: [thelist] anyone have Movable Type (blog) experience? > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:16:06 +0100 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > > How does one delete the Melody account? Just playing with MT for > > my sis .. > > and didn't see a way to delete that account. P.S. I know nothing in the > > way of perl/php .. simple instructions greatly appreciated. :) > > IIRC it's a simple matter of logging in, creating a new account (with all > rights) and then log in with your new account, and then go to Add/Edit Blog > Authors, then view complete list of authors, here you should be able to > select melody for deletion. > > BTW: > > there's an official MT mailing list to be found on the support forum at > http://www.movabletype.org and this unofficial mailing list to here: > > Post message: MTyourhead at yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: MTyourhead-subscribe at yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: MTyourhead-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com > List owner: MTyourhead-owner at yahoogroups.com > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 33 > From: "Means, Eric D" > To: "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" > Subject: RE: [thelist] anyone have Movable Type (blog) experience? > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:15:52 -0500 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michele Foster [mailto:michele at wordpro.on.ca] > > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 11:02 AM > > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Subject: Re: [thelist] anyone have Movable Type (blog) experience? > > > > > > Mark, > > > > How does one delete the Melody account? Just playing with MT for my sis > .. > > and didn't see a way to delete that account. P.S. I know nothing in the > > way of perl/php .. simple instructions greatly appreciated. :) > > I'm not sure how to delete it, but you can log in as Melody and change her > password, at least. Less permanent than deleting the account, almost as > secure. ;) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 34 > From: "Shashank Tripathi" _{> To:
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Web-based wysiwyg html editors ?
> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:24:08 +0900
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> This should give you some ideas.
> http://shanx.com/scripts/editorMain.htm
>
> Done in late 2000 so obviously the world should have moved along, but I
> still see something like this all over the place. If ur dealing with IE
> only, they have a pretty rich set of functions.
>
> Cheers,
> Shashank
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 35
> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:39:52 -0700
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> From: Howard Cheng
> Subject: Re: [thelist] js form validation problem
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Don't forget also: onchange="return chkNum(this)"
>
> At 03:30 PM 6/13/2002 +0000, Karen J. Bowen wrote:
> >> >>onchange="chkNum(this)">
> >
> >::::::::::::::::::::::
> >Howard Cheng
> >howcheng at ix.netcom.com
> >AIM: bennyphoebe
> >ICQ: 47319315
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help: http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thelist
>
> Archives: http://lists.evolt.org
>
> End of thelist Digest
>

From tara at taracleveland.com Thu Jun 13 15:07:15 2002
From: tara at taracleveland.com (Tara Cleveland)
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:07:15 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check/advice part deux.
In-Reply-To: <000801c212cc$f17b1940$e5ca0ed0@havoc>
Message-ID:

> Based on some replies from here and elswhere I've made some changes to
> http://www.lobowalk.com/ . Mostly concerning my dealing with font size. I
> hope that I'm on the right track.

Daniel,

After a very quick check (mac IE5 and NS6.2) I would increase the padding
(just by a couple of pixels) on the side and middle columns to add a little
bit more "white" space. The larger text seems somehow more jammed in.

Regards,
Tara
--
Tara Cleveland
business --> http://www.taracleveland.com
blog --> http://www.taracleveland.com/personal

From mrg at members.evolt.org Thu Jun 13 15:11:01 2002
From: mrg at members.evolt.org (matt g)
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] MT blog/ CSS not rendering
In-Reply-To: <20020613195459.16483.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID:

> From: "Tom Dell'Aringa"

> Hi all,
>
>
> I can't for the life of me figure out what reloading an exact copy of a css
> file fixes. Certainly
> MT is generating a dynamic page of sorts, but the link tag is right in there
> as is the css...I'm
> lost.

Hi Tom,
In the admin side of MT, what shows up in the CSS template after you've
uploaded your "fixed" css file? The file you've uploaded? or the last
version of what you edited in MT?

I believe that when you rebuild your files, MT copies over the existing
files with what is in the MT css template.

If you want to work on the css on your local machine, you should name it
something else (like pixelmech_mt.css) and change the link in all of the
html templates (Main Index, Archive Index, etc) via the MT admin.

hth,
matt g

From jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu Thu Jun 13 15:12:00 2002
From: jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu (Jonathon Isaac Swiderski)
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:12:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ie css
In-Reply-To:
(Arlen.P.Walker@jci.com)
References:
Message-ID: <200206132011.QAA24394@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>

From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com

>The problem like this is, I'd like to be able to use a different graphic at
>some point, without having to play with the width controls again. . .

Hmm.... haven't tried this, but it's twisted enough that it might work. Add
"display:inline;" to the styles and see what happens.

Not sure which 'styles' you meant. Had no effect applied on the image. . .
(fyi, the img is in a div called left; everything else above the contact/resume
line is in a div called right. the #right has margin-left and padding-left of
15px as the only styles applied; the #left has float:left, padding-right,
padding-bottom, margin-left, and margin-bottom of 15px each, and a 2px black
border on the right and bottom. the css is in the imaginatively-named /css.css
if you want to see for yourselves.)

thanks again
jonathon

--
Jonathon Isaac Swiderski jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu
cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders \\ members.evolt.org/jswiders

From pixelmech at yahoo.com Thu Jun 13 15:14:00 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:14:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check/advice part deux.
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <20020613201341.17857.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>

Daniel,

I fully agree with Tara on that..and I know color is personal, but man the colors KILL me on the
site, I wouldn't read it myself.

Tom
--- Tara Cleveland wrote:
> > Based on some replies from here and elswhere I've made some changes to
> > http://www.lobowalk.com/ . Mostly concerning my dealing with font size. I
> > hope that I'm on the right track.
>
> Daniel,
>
> After a very quick check (mac IE5 and NS6.2) I would increase the padding
> (just by a couple of pixels) on the side and middle columns to add a little
> bit more "white" space. The larger text seems somehow more jammed in.
>
> Regards,
> Tara
> --
> Tara Cleveland
> business --> http://www.taracleveland.com
> blog --> http://www.taracleveland.com/personal
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From hblair at hotfootmail.com Thu Jun 13 15:20:01 2002
From: hblair at hotfootmail.com (Hugh Blair)
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] MT blog/ CSS not rendering
In-Reply-To: <20020613195459.16483.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID:

> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Tom Dell'Aringa
>
> Now, if I go and FTP up another copy of the stylesheet, everything
> will correct itself and the
> page will display with the styles. But if I again rebuild the blog
> after making a change or an
> entry, the page will blow up again - and again, if I simply reload
> the css, it will work.

I'm not sure why, but I find:
"styles.css" in /public_htlm/mt and
"styles-site.css" in /public_html/blogname

Which one are you changing? Where are you putting when you FTP it?

Oh, *do* know that you've lost your DOCTYPE statement in this page?

--
Hugh

From eric.d.means at boeing.com Thu Jun 13 15:21:00 2002
From: eric.d.means at boeing.com (Means, Eric D)
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:21:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] MT blog/ CSS not rendering
Message-ID: <9CFB687ADA93234DB835E8E4CA98B928019F6ED0@XCH-STL-07.mw.nos.boeing.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: matt g [mailto:mrg at members.evolt.org]
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 3:10 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] MT blog/ CSS not rendering
>
> If you want to work on the css on your local machine, you should name it
> something else (like pixelmech_mt.css) and change the link in all of the
> html templates (Main Index, Archive Index, etc) via the MT admin.

Better yet, enter the name of the file in the "link to file" field in MT, in
which case you can edit the file in either MT or on your local machine (and
then upload it) without causing problems.

From xslf at xslf.com Thu Jun 13 15:24:01 2002
From: xslf at xslf.com (Shoshannah Forbes)
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Mozilla 1 and Netscape 7 not picking up stylesheet???
In-Reply-To: <01a901c2125c$a64005a0$bd1110ac@hyde>
Message-ID:

Yes, that it is.
The CSS should be of type text/css , not text/plain
(see more info in the mozilla web stie)

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On
Behalf Of Mark
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 1:01 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Re: Mozilla 1 and Netscape 7 not picking up stylesheet???

Yes, I'm not picking up the style sheet with Mozilla 1.

The W3c CSS validator says:
I/O Error: Unknown mime type : text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

From pixelmech at yahoo.com Thu Jun 13 15:25:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] MT blog/ CSS not rendering
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <20020613202445.38987.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>

Egads! That was it Matt, thanks a ton. I didn't even realize that it was writing a css...I just
changed it to write out the same one with .temp {} as the only style in there for now, and changed
the link to pixelmech.css...works great.

Tom

--- matt g wrote:
> > From: "Tom Dell'Aringa"
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> >
> > I can't for the life of me figure out what reloading an exact copy of a css
> > file fixes. Certainly
> > MT is generating a dynamic page of sorts, but the link tag is right in there
> > as is the css...I'm
> > lost.
>
> Hi Tom,
> In the admin side of MT, what shows up in the CSS template after you've
> uploaded your "fixed" css file? The file you've uploaded? or the last
> version of what you edited in MT?
>
> I believe that when you rebuild your files, MT copies over the existing
> files with what is in the MT css template.
>
> If you want to work on the css on your local machine, you should name it
> something else (like pixelmech_mt.css) and change the link in all of the
> html templates (Main Index, Archive Index, etc) via the MT admin.
>
> hth,
> matt g
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From pixelmech at yahoo.com Thu Jun 13 15:27:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] MT blog/ CSS not rendering
In-Reply-To: <9CFB687ADA93234DB835E8E4CA98B928019F6ED0@XCH-STL-07.mw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <20020613202620.75041.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>

Thats a great idea too Eric, I'll do that too.

Tom
--- "Means, Eric D" wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: matt g [mailto:mrg at members.evolt.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 3:10 PM
> > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> > Subject: Re: [thelist] MT blog/ CSS not rendering
> >
> > If you want to work on the css on your local machine, you should name it
> > something else (like pixelmech_mt.css) and change the link in all of the
> > html templates (Main Index, Archive Index, etc) via the MT admin.
>
> Better yet, enter the name of the file in the "link to file" field in MT, in
> which case you can edit the file in either MT or on your local machine (and
> then upload it) without causing problems.
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From hblair at hotfootmail.com Thu Jun 13 15:28:01 2002
From: hblair at hotfootmail.com (Hugh Blair)
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] MT blog/ CSS not rendering
In-Reply-To: <20020613195459.16483.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID:

> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Tom Dell'Aringa
>
> Go ahead and look at the code. As you can see, the link ref's my
> stylesheet which, is indeed
> loaded in the very same directory as index.php.

Interesting that http://www.pixelmech.com/styles-site.css only has
".temp{}" in it. Did you just make a change? The first time I tried
to see the .css file, I got a 404.

--
Hugh

From xslf at xslf.com Thu Jun 13 15:32:00 2002
From: xslf at xslf.com (Shoshannah Forbes)
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:32:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Validation > pressure on software companies??
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:

I find validation the fastest way to find bugs in my code that lead to
strange display results in browsers other then win/ie, which tend to be
rather sensitive to invalid code in varios ways.

No, it does not prevent display error completely, but it make it more easy
for me to fix them, then then I know if the bug is in my code or in the
browser.

-----Original Message-----

I personally clearly prefer a page that works and depreciates nicely over a
page that sticks to some standard which causes display errors. Please help
me to understand. I feel really funky, because everybody makes such a big
deal about validation and then in some instances the page does not even
display correctly! What's the point then??

From pixelmech at yahoo.com Thu Jun 13 15:33:00 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:33:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] MT blog/ CSS not rendering
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <20020613203230.39746.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>

Yes I did, and now I am linking it an external file so I can just edit it normally, which is nice.
I have to say MT kicks some bootie.

Tom
--- Hugh Blair wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > On Behalf Of Tom Dell'Aringa
> >
> > Go ahead and look at the code. As you can see, the link ref's my
> > stylesheet which, is indeed
> > loaded in the very same directory as index.php.
>
> Interesting that http://www.pixelmech.com/styles-site.css only has
> ".temp{}" in it. Did you just make a change? The first time I tried
> to see the .css file, I got a 404.
>
> --
> Hugh
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From rob.smith at thermon.com Thu Jun 13 15:36:01 2002
From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Database Management based on NT Permissions (SQL 2k db)
Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020709B5@smtmb.thermon.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]

Hi list,

Is there any documentation or working examples out there regarding the
subject line. The site I'm working on not only is database driven, but it
also is (supposed to be) customized by who you are; determined by NT
permissions. My network guru believes that you can set the permissions on a
database right down to the Cell Level. I know how to set permissions through
Enterprise Manager on specific columns. My problem is slightly different,
for example:

Joe Schmoe
----------
View lines 12,14,15,17, and 19

Mary Jane
---------
View Lines 7,8,10,11,13,14

John Doe
--------
View Lines 1,2,3,7,15, and 20

I do have an aid within each row that will help determine who gets to view
the row. But what I want to know is, how do I tell my asp 2.0 code/MS SQL 2k
db who this person is?

Thanks for any help!

Rob.Smith

From Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov Thu Jun 13 15:51:01 2002
From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov (Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov)
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check/advice part deux.
Message-ID:

> I fully agree with Tara on that..and I know color is personal, but man the
colors KILL me on the
> site, I wouldn't read it myself.
>
> Tom

Agreed. Color is personal only to a point. http://www.lobowalk.com/ has a
colorscheme that, while it is more attractive to some than others, features
dark text on a dark background. I found it difficult to read for that
reason, regardless of its aesthetic merit or lack thereof.

(The colors used on the site also appear to fall into the range affected by
my colorblindness, so I might not be seeing them accurately. 10% of the male
population in the US has my flavor of colorblindness, though -- so if you
think the statistics indicate that you ought to design your sites to work on
non-Microsoft browsers, you have just about as much statistical backing for
designing sites that are attractive and functional for R-G color-blind
users.)

--
Jonathan McPherson, LMIT/SD&I
Software Engineer & Web Systems Analyst
email / jonathan_a_mcpherson at rl dot gov
phone / 509.373.0150

From Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com Thu Jun 13 15:59:01 2002
From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com)
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] OT but urgent: printer recommendations?
Message-ID:

>They're looking for two, actually: a *reliable* black network laser
>printer for regular-to-heavy use (mostly text), and a "photo-quality"
>color printer (8.5" x 11" is OK) for creating promotional stuff (this is
>not as urgent).

We use Tektronix thermal wax printers for most of our in-house page proofs.
The bonus is the black ink is free from Tek. Have personal experience with
840 and 850, and am satisfied with them.

Have fun,
Arlen
Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department
DNRC 224

Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com
----------------------------------------------
In God we trust; all others must provide data.
----------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone.
If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it.

From jfeldt at websmith.biz Thu Jun 13 15:59:16 2002
From: jfeldt at websmith.biz (Jonathan)
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:59:16 2002
Subject: [thelist] Just a test
References:
Message-ID: <010801c21315$f4a218a0$2426080c@waves>

What patients?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Boisvert"
To:
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 8:29 AM
Subject: [thelist] Just a test

> This is just a test. My system crashed and I lost everything and am now
> setting everything up again.
>
> Thanks for your patients.
>
> Bob
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/02
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

From Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com Thu Jun 13 16:07:01 2002
From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com)
Date: Thu Jun 13 16:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ie css
Message-ID:

>Not sure which 'styles' you meant. Had no effect applied on the image. .
.

"left" and "right" in the css file.

Have fun,
Arlen
Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department
DNRC 224

Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com
----------------------------------------------
In God we trust; all others must provide data.
----------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone.
If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it.

From Anthony at Baratta.com Thu Jun 13 16:11:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Thu Jun 13 16:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Database Management based on NT Permissions (SQL
2k db)
In-Reply-To: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020709B5@smtmb.thermon.com
>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020613140750.02c65cc8@baratta.com>

"Row level" permissions are going to be up to you and your DB Design. The
DB (with NT permissions) can be set on a table and column basis, but not a
row basis.

To get the user name/password, you'll need to interogate the HTTP headers
or use one of the COM objects to get this information. Once you have it,
you can pass that to ADO when you connect to the DB.
--
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."

From rob.smith at thermon.com Thu Jun 13 16:15:01 2002
From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Thu Jun 13 16:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Database Management based on NT Permissions (SQL 2k
db)
Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020709B7@smtmb.thermon.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]

I guess I finally get to learn what COM and ADO acronyms stand for now... In
other words, I have a slight detour ahead of me

"Row level" permissions are going to be up to you and your DB Design. The
DB (with NT permissions) can be set on a table and column basis, but not a
row basis.

To get the user name/password, you'll need to interogate the HTTP headers
or use one of the COM objects to get this information. Once you have it,
you can pass that to ADO when you connect to the DB.
--
Anthony Baratta

From davidu at everydns.net Thu Jun 13 16:21:01 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David Ulevitch)
Date: Thu Jun 13 16:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Just a test
In-Reply-To: <010801c21315$f4a218a0$2426080c@waves>
References:
<010801c21315$f4a218a0$2426080c@waves>
Message-ID: <3804.10240033881024003388.everydns@mail.everydns.net>

Jonathan said:
> What patients?

s/patients/patience

-davidu

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Boisvert"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 8:29 AM
> Subject: [thelist] Just a test
>
>
>> This is just a test. My system crashed and I lost everything and am
>> now setting everything up again.
>>
>> Thanks for your patients.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/02
>>
>> --
>> For unsubscribe and other options, including
>> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
>> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

From martin at easyweb.co.uk Thu Jun 13 16:43:01 2002
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns)
Date: Thu Jun 13 16:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Do I need a CMS
In-Reply-To: <02df01c2130c$f737cdc0$0101c80a@hershel>
Message-ID: <7BAA9A25-7F16-11D6-951D-000502172AD3@easyweb.co.uk>

On Thursday, June 13, 2002, at 08:03 pm, Hershel Robinson wrote:

> I am building a site now with an Articles section. This Articles
> section
> will contain the approx 1000 articles the site owner has written in MS
> Word.
> I have a utility to convert them (en masse) to HTML and I am writing a
> Perl
> script to strip off everything from these HTML files but the actual
> article
> text. The articles are divided into categories and some of the
> categories
> are divided into subcategories.
>
> My question is what do people think of my writing a simple CGI Perl
> script
> (and an Access database) to handle producing (in real time) category,
> sub-category and actual article pages? I'll just keep pointers in the
> database to all the files and then output article pages with the desired
> HTML look before and after the article. Does anyone think I need
> something
> more sophisticated?
>
> The site owner writes articles for different publications occasionally
> and
> so there will be more articles to add, but I don't think any real
> volume of
> them. If there was one a week I would be surprised. To add new
> articles, I
> could just use the same semi-automated process of convert, strip and
> add to
> the database.

Hi Herschel

While Steve covered most of what I was going to say anyway, here's a few
questions/thoughts:

1) What's the likely traffic? Access doesn't handle loads very well
2) Could your script just rebuild static index pages when a new article
is launched?
3) Who's going to be adding new pages? Do you want a manual process
which only you can operate?
4) What's the sign-off process - does the client want to check every
article before it goes live, or will they just trust you?
5) How much of this will be true in a year's time? And if 'enough to
make a difference', how open is the client to paying someone/you to
reengineer it?

Take a look at my article:
http://evolt.org/CMS_for_business/
specifically at the checklists at the bottom

Last thing - Steve's right, a better question is "how much CMS do I
need". It might be that what you're proposing could be handled by a
high-spec blog, or a CMS which *doesn't* cost an arm and a leg (eg
Zope - my own site runs on Zope and auto-indexes pages in some places,
based on an 'isLive' flag and launch/expire dates)

Cheers
Martin
_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
martin at members.evolt.org snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985 Edinburgh,
url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk Scotland

From Anthony at Baratta.com Thu Jun 13 16:45:03 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Thu Jun 13 16:45:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] Database Management based on NT Permissions (SQL
2k db)
In-Reply-To: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020709B7@smtmb.thermon.com
>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020613144109.02d8e418@baratta.com>

At 02:17 PM 6/13/2002, Rob Smith wrote:

>I guess I finally get to learn what COM and ADO acronyms stand for now... In
>other words, I have a slight detour ahead of me

Common Object Model
http://www.microsoft.com/com/
http://www.microsoft.com/com/resources/compluscd/default.asp

ActiveX Data Objects
http://www.microsoft.com/data/ado/
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/ado270/htm/dasdkadooverview.asp?frame=true

--
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."

From jeff at members.evolt.org Thu Jun 13 17:19:00 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Jun 13 17:19:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] with Enter, onBlur is preceded by onSubmit
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:

ken,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Ken Kogler
>
> IE is the only browser that equates a user pressing
> 'enter' with a form's submit behavior by default. This
> is annoying and obnoxious, [...]
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

annoying and obnoxious to you, but expected behavior in any windows app (ie,
pressing enter is the same as pressing the default button which is usually
indicated to the user by a dotted line near its outside edges.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> so I plug a bit of javascript into my page, and *poof*
> - the problem goes away.
>
> You should be good to go, as long as your users have
> javascript enabled...
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

bad boy -- go to your room without supper.

;p

seriously though, why cripple behavior users are accustomed to simply
because you find it annoying?

what about this behavior is problematic, in your opinion?

btw, i'm working on a part 2 to my forms & javascript article that's
currently available on the website. you can bet this "fine" example will
make it in to that article.

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/

From lalo at teligens.com Thu Jun 13 18:17:01 2002
From: lalo at teligens.com (Eduardo Dominguez)
Date: Thu Jun 13 18:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Centering a div with CSS
Message-ID: <003201c21339$bdeec280$8900a8c0@breakbeat>

I want to create a div that will hold all the content of a
small site and I want this 580px of width but that its
always centered horizantally.

Already tried lots of things, like the float
property, using percentages with "left" and "right".
But I guess my newbieness to CSS is blinding me :)

Any help is appreciated
--
edmz

From gary at star-chaser.com Thu Jun 13 18:20:01 2002
From: gary at star-chaser.com (gary)
Date: Thu Jun 13 18:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Installing IMP. No. Wait. PEAR not installed?
In-Reply-To:
References: <001001c2124d$1d3d65e0$0201a8c0@tharapita>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020613191619.009f54d0@star-chaser.com>

At 01:26 PM 6/13/02 -0500, you wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Lauri Vain wrote:
>
>I haven't tried it, but you could try installing PEAR in your web space,
>and using the ini_set() function to modify the include_path setting.

I do it all the time. You won't find many host with PEAR on the server. Put
PEAR anywhere and then

ini_set('include_path', 'path/to /pear/');

HTH
gary

From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Thu Jun 13 18:27:01 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Thu Jun 13 18:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Centering a div with CSS
In-Reply-To: <003201c21339$bdeec280$8900a8c0@breakbeat>
Message-ID: <000801c21331$b092c850$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>

Try left:auto; right:auto;
--Burhan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Eduardo Dominguez
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 5:24 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Centering a div with CSS
>
>
> I want to create a div that will hold all the content of a
> small site and I want this 580px of width but that its
> always centered horizantally.
>
> Already tried lots of things, like the float
> property, using percentages with "left" and "right".
> But I guess my newbieness to CSS is blinding me :)
>
> Any help is appreciated
> --
> edmz
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>

From lalo at teligens.com Thu Jun 13 18:33:01 2002
From: lalo at teligens.com (Eduardo Dominguez)
Date: Thu Jun 13 18:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Centering a div with CSS
References: <000801c21331$b092c850$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>
Message-ID: <003c01c2133c$18329990$8900a8c0@breakbeat>

Burhan,

tried this:

.test{
width: 780px;
left: auto;
right: auto;
}

but the div still appears on the left side.

--
edmz

From evolt at david.us-lot.org Thu Jun 13 18:35:01 2002
From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward)
Date: Thu Jun 13 18:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Centering a div with CSS
In-Reply-To: <003201c21339$bdeec280$8900a8c0@breakbeat>
References: <003201c21339$bdeec280$8900a8c0@breakbeat>
Message-ID: <20020614003554.5d9eed63.evolt@david.us-lot.org>

On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:23:43 -0600
"Eduardo Dominguez" wrote:

> I want to create a div that will hold all the content of a
> small site and I want this 580px of width but that its
> always centered horizantally.
>
> Already tried lots of things, like the float
> property, using percentages with "left" and "right".
> But I guess my newbieness to CSS is blinding me :)

div.foo {
width: 580px;
margin-left: auto;
margin-right: auto;
}

--
David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/
HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV.

From eric.d.means at boeing.com Thu Jun 13 18:35:09 2002
From: eric.d.means at boeing.com (Means, Eric D)
Date: Thu Jun 13 18:35:09 2002
Subject: [thelist] Centering a div with CSS
Message-ID: <9CFB687ADA93234DB835E8E4CA98B928019F6ED1@XCH-STL-07.mw.nos.boeing.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eduardo Dominguez [mailto:lalo at teligens.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 7:41 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Centering a div with CSS
>
> Burhan,
>
> tried this:
>
> .test{
> width: 780px;
> left: auto;
> right: auto;
> }
>
> but the div still appears on the left side.

How about
.test {
width: 780px;
margin-left: auto;
margin-right: auto;
}

From chris at activeinterface.com Thu Jun 13 18:35:18 2002
From: chris at activeinterface.com (Chris Harrington)
Date: Thu Jun 13 18:35:18 2002
Subject: [thelist] Do I need a CMS
In-Reply-To: <02df01c2130c$f737cdc0$0101c80a@hershel>
References:
<200206131746.NAA30883@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020613185106.022374b0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

Hershel,

I had a similar task last year, with sections and subsections accessing
training content which was originally written in Word. I built for my
client an XML/XSLT driven site. The Word material was also converted to
XML. Anyway, the site menus and training content were dynamically generated
from the XML. There was also role based filtering of the content. There was
no problem doing this on the fly, although for a very heavily used site I
might consider a batch conversion to HTML. I would say that in your case a
CMS is overkill, but a CMS is something which you can grow into. And with
a CMS, you can edit the content on-line after the batch conversion from Word.

This year I extended my XML/XSLT based page rendering to support on-line
browser-based editing, previewing, and publishing. So it has basically
evolved into a CMS. Is is geared more towards sites with complex
multi-level templates.

At 09:03 PM 6/13/2002 +0200, you wrote:
>I am building a site now with an Articles section. This Articles section
>will contain the approx 1000 articles the site owner has written in MS Word.
>I have a utility to convert them (en masse) to HTML and I am writing a Perl
>script to strip off everything from these HTML files but the actual article
>text. The articles are divided into categories and some of the categories
>are divided into subcategories.
>
>My question is what do people think of my writing a simple CGI Perl script
>(and an Access database) to handle producing (in real time) category,
>sub-category and actual article pages? I'll just keep pointers in the
>database to all the files and then output article pages with the desired
>HTML look before and after the article. Does anyone think I need something
>more sophisticated?
>
>The site owner writes articles for different publications occasionally and
>so there will be more articles to add, but I don't think any real volume of
>them. If there was one a week I would be surprised. To add new articles, I
>could just use the same semi-automated process of convert, strip and add to
>the database.
>
>I am wondering if I am missing any functionality here that might be useful.
>This is my first time building a site of this type.
>
>Thanks,
>Hershel
>
>PS: Anybody know what happened to cgi-list at jann.com?
>
>--
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

Chris Harrington
Active Interface, Inc.
www.intrasight.com
Ph: 412-901-1184
Fax: 412-799-0927

From mbarrett at triad.rr.com Thu Jun 13 18:36:00 2002
From: mbarrett at triad.rr.com (Michael Barrett)
Date: Thu Jun 13 18:36:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Centering a div with CSS
In-Reply-To: <000801c21331$b092c850$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>
Message-ID:

> Try left:auto; right:auto;

If the DIV is not absolutely positioned...

The technically correct thing to do is:

margin-left: auto;
margin-right: auto;

As this should create equal margins on either side, centering the element
horizontally.

Not all browsers will comply with this however (Windows IE in particular)

You can style the containing element (the body, another DIV, whatever) of
the DIV you want to center like so:

text-align: center;

Which should center the DIV in Win IE

--
Michael Barrett
-O^O-
-

mbarrett at triad.rr.com

From lalo at teligens.com Thu Jun 13 18:42:01 2002
From: lalo at teligens.com (Eduardo Dominguez)
Date: Thu Jun 13 18:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Centering a div with CSS
References: <9CFB687ADA93234DB835E8E4CA98B928019F6ED1@XCH-STL-07.mw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <005c01c2133d$55c4f860$8900a8c0@breakbeat>

eric, david, burhan:

thanks for your quick answer, it worked, the margin-* did it.

Try Vulcan Logic's SRM (free) for:
- SRM as a session handler
- Calling remote functions in SRM (always loaded)
- Application level variables (real global variables)
- Remote objects

From g1notami at zoominternet.net Thu Jun 13 19:21:01 2002
From: g1notami at zoominternet.net (D. Bruce Saurer)
Date: Thu Jun 13 19:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS replacements for cellpadding/cellspacing (was PAGE OPTIMIZATION)
References: <00da01c21306$70857080$2860398a@newcos.com>
Message-ID: <032901c21352$5d1fb400$6c7ba8c0@zoominternet.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Aylard"

> Ken,
>
> > Right, but he's setting the background color of the page to white (which
> got
> > snipped out of the above reply), then adding a 2px white border to each
> > table cell. This has the same effect as cellspacing.
>
> As long as you don't want _both_ cellspacing and a border
differentiated
> from the page background...

And if you do...

body {
color: #000 ;
background-color: #fff ;
}
td {
border: 2px solid #fff ;
padding: 3px ;
}
table.border td {
border: 2px solid #000 ;
}
table.border {
font: bold 1em TrebuchetMS,serif;
color: #030;
background-color: #fff ;
}

will get you there. Maybe this is considered a hack but, if you need it
done and the browser doesn't support the standard, I'm all for what ever
works.

bruce
g1notami at zoominternet.net

From g1notami at zoominternet.net Thu Jun 13 19:31:01 2002
From: g1notami at zoominternet.net (D. Bruce Saurer)
Date: Thu Jun 13 19:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS replacements for cellpadding/cellspacing (was PAGE OPTIMIZATION)
References: <00da01c21306$70857080$2860398a@newcos.com> <032901c21352$5d1fb400$6c7ba8c0@zoominternet.net>
Message-ID: <036a01c21353$c35f2100$6c7ba8c0@zoominternet.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Bruce Saurer"

> And if you do...
>
> body {
> color: #000 ;
> background-color: #fff ;
> }
> td {
> border: 2px solid #fff ;
> padding: 3px ;
> }
> table.border td {
> border: 2px solid #000 ;
> }
> table.border {
> font: bold 1em TrebuchetMS,serif;
> color: #030;
> background-color: #fff ;
> }
>
> will get you there. Maybe this is considered a hack but, if you need it
> done and the browser doesn't support the standard, I'm all for what ever
> works.

Sorry, I lost my head for a bit. For a time there I actually thought it was
applying the border twice.

bruce
g1notami at zoominternet.net

From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Thu Jun 13 19:42:01 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Thu Jun 13 19:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS question
In-Reply-To: <000d01c212df$b1dea280$6561a8c0@vader>
Message-ID: <000001c2133c$435562b0$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>

Hey Raymond :

I think I have your image problem figured out. I hope you don't
mind, I had to download your site to my machine to tackle with it.
Anyhow, you can view what I came up with here :

http://members.evolt.org/burhankhalid/raymond

Let me know if that works,
Burhan

PS> Your son is very cute!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Raymond Camden
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 6:39 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] CSS question
>
>
> I've got (what I hope is) a simple CSS question. On my personal home
> page I use a 'block' style effect to wrap my content.
> However, my image
> on the home page (I'm the older one ;) bleeds out of the box
> on both IE
> and Mozilla. Any ideas? .jeff suggested this CSS style:
>
> .content img {
> display: block;
> }
>
> but it didn't work for me. .content is:
>
> .content {
> /* width:100%;*/
> min-width:120px;
> /* height: 100%; */
> /* top, right */
> margin:0px 20px 20px 20px;
>
> border:1px solid black;
> background-color:white;
> padding:10px;
> }
>
> and the source using it is:
>
>
> Welcome
>
> Welcome to the personal home page of Raymond K. Camden,
> Principal Spectra
> Compliance Engineer for href="http://www.macromedia.com">Macromedia, Inc.
> On my home page you will find links to my ColdFusion development
> as well as
> [deletia]
>
>
>
>
> ==============================================================
> =========
> Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Macromedia
>
> Email : jedimaster at macromedia.com
> Yahoo IM : morpheus
>
> "My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>

From hblair at hotfootmail.com Thu Jun 13 20:00:01 2002
From: hblair at hotfootmail.com (Hugh Blair)
Date: Thu Jun 13 20:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS question
In-Reply-To: <000001c2133c$435562b0$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>
Message-ID:

> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Burhan Khalid
>
> I think I have your image problem figured out. I hope you don't
> mind, I had to download your site to my machine to tackle with it.
> Anyhow, you can view what I came up with here :
>
> http://members.evolt.org/burhankhalid/raymond

Not quite ready for prime time, at least in IE5.5.
If I mouse over any of the links except the "Macromedia, Inc." link, the bottom
line of the box moves up as far as the child's eyes. Mouseing over the
"Macromedia.." link restores it to the proper size.

Screen shots if requested.

--
Hugh
hblair at hotfootmail.com

From Anthony at Baratta.com Thu Jun 13 20:03:00 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Thu Jun 13 20:03:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Reverse Lookups by MTA and FTP.....
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020613175750.02dd20a8@mail.areamail.net>

Howdy!

We've moved over to PacBell DSL at the office and at home. With these new
internet connections I'm seeing delays in connecting to services that do
reverse lookups on the IP.

I've added the DSL IPs (they are static) to the /etc/hosts table. I've also
verified via nslookup and dig that the reverse mappings are set correctly,
as seen from the servers. Strangely, traceroute bails, but
ping/nslookup/dig work correctly.

The Covad DSL lines never gave us these problems and since both locations
are on PacBell, I'm wondering if there is something screwy going on between
the servers and PacBell.

Any thoughts??
--
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."

From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Thu Jun 13 20:12:01 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Thu Jun 13 20:12:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS question
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <000201c21340$601b45f0$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>

> Not quite ready for prime time, at least in IE5.5.
> If I mouse over any of the links except the "Macromedia,
> Inc." link, the bottom
> line of the box moves up as far as the child's eyes. Mouseing over the
> "Macromedia.." link restores it to the proper size.
>

Hmm...don't see it happening in IE 6.0

From jjk3 at msstate.edu Thu Jun 13 22:04:01 2002
From: jjk3 at msstate.edu (Joel Konkle-Parker)
Date: Thu Jun 13 22:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: SSI in XML
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

You, sir, are my absolute hero. Thank you immensely.

- -joeljkp

- ---------------------------------------
http://www.ballsome.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of
Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:41 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Re: SSI in XML

>Don't know your server, but mine (Linux/Apache) requires the file
>extension to be Shtml, not html (that is, shtml) in order to process
>SSI.

As with anything else in Apache, that's changeable. Adding
"AddHandler
server-parsed .html" to the config file, for example, will now tell
apache
to parse .html files as well.

Have fun,
Arlen
Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy
Department
DNRC 224

Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com
- ----------------------------------------------
In God we trust; all others must provide data.
- ----------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone.
If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver
it.

- --
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

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Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use

iQA/AwUBPQlc+3880CLOJa2eEQIyvwCfaX2PT+DFE78Ta7cScN+8Ur616G4Anj/6
ukK4yMFWAb7ODYUSCT01Klwg
=JkVK
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From morbus at disobey.com Thu Jun 13 22:35:00 2002
From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff)
Date: Thu Jun 13 22:35:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ann] AmphetaDesk v0.93 > Now Available
Message-ID:

The new version of AmphetaDesk is available, coded by your friendly
evolt.org member, Morbus. Gasp! You've never used it? How dare you! Bad
child! Where's my spider baby. You can grab it from:

http://www.disobey.com/amphetadesk/

And can find more information about this release here:

http://www.disobey.com/amphetadesk/whats_new.html

Let me know what you think, eh? I've been deliberately vague in this email.
I'm an evolt.org lover. You should love me unconditionally. Bitches.

--
Morbus Iff ( strive for mediocrity )
Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/
Tech: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779 - articles and weblog
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus

From erick_papadakis at yahoo.com Thu Jun 13 23:20:00 2002
From: erick_papadakis at yahoo.com (Erick Papadakis)
Date: Thu Jun 13 23:20:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] "stopped" pop-up windows: graceful exit with errors?
Message-ID: <20020614041905.91710.qmail@web10704.mail.yahoo.com>

javascript gurus, i have pop-ups on a website i am
working on, but some users have "pop up stoppers"
installed on their machine, and when they try to click
on the link on my webiste that is supposed to do the
pop-up window, they get a JS error.

what is a good way to capture this error in different
browsers, with different popupstopper softwares, and
tell the users that "A windows needs to popup but
cannot because of your software" or something like
that.

thanks/erick

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From gozz at gozz.com Thu Jun 13 23:32:01 2002
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Thu Jun 13 23:32:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] "stopped" pop-up windows: graceful exit with errors?
In-Reply-To: <20020614041905.91710.qmail@web10704.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020614041905.91710.qmail@web10704.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID:

Hmmm ... I wonder if http://evolt.org/article/-/17/20938/ would work
with any pop-up stoppers.

What is the error that you get? You might try something like

if (typeof window.open == 'function')

A wild guess though.

>javascript gurus, i have pop-ups on a website i am
>working on, but some users have "pop up stoppers"
>installed on their machine, and when they try to click
>on the link on my webiste that is supposed to do the
>pop-up window, they get a JS error.

--

__________________________________________
- Erik Mattheis

(612) 377 2272
http://goZz.com/

Through Early July
9am - 4pm M-F:
(952) 838 7698

__________________________________________

From headlines at lists.evolt.org Fri Jun 14 00:11:01 2002
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Fri Jun 14 00:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 13-JUN-02
Message-ID: <200206140510.g5E5A1On018628@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 13-JUN-02

Hi evolters!

We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our
members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone
else:

Community News: Community News - May 2002 (Author: aardvark)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/27/29030/index.html

May happenings among our community. Dive in and see what's been
going on behind the scenes, along with some of what your fellow
members have done.

Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a
comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.

Happy reading!

evolt.org

From luminosity at members.evolt.org Fri Jun 14 00:47:01 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Fri Jun 14 00:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Validation > pressure on software companies??
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <1046.139.130.216.191.1024033584.squirrel@members.evolt.org>

Kostal Design|Sebastian Kostal said:
> Watching this list for a while I realized everybody thinks that
> validation is important.
>
> I've seen valid code that breaks on NN 4.5 Mac. So the validator seems
> to me no measure to assure correct page display.

As it shouldn't be. If that was happening then it would be the html standard
following browser foibles instead of browsers trying to follow the standard.

> I personally clearly prefer a page that works and depreciates nicely
> over a page that sticks to some standard which causes display errors.
> Please help me to understand. I feel really funky, because everybody
> makes such a big deal about validation and then in some instances the
> page does not even display correctly! What's the point then??

A) It's more likely to degarde well if it follows the standards.
B) It's more likely to stand up in the future if you follow the standards.
C) It's a mark of pride to me that I can make my pages validate.
D) It's a measure of professionality, IMO. Anyone can make a web page, but
those who follow the standards, or at least follow them closely are much
more likely to understand other important issues such as degradiblity,
accessiblity, etc.
E) Using markup like it's supposed to be used aids accessiblity. A page
which has been validated is unlikely to require a lot of work to make it
accessible if it has to be. (And all pages should be decently accessible
anyway.)

Lach
--------------------------------------
http://members.evolt.org/luminosity/
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
--------------------------------------

From hershelr at netvision.net.il Fri Jun 14 03:32:02 2002
From: hershelr at netvision.net.il (Hershel Robinson)
Date: Fri Jun 14 03:32:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Do I need a CMS
References: <7BAA9A25-7F16-11D6-951D-000502172AD3@easyweb.co.uk>
Message-ID: <010701c21385$e955af00$0101c80a@hershel>

Thanks for your letter. You gave me a few ideas to think about.

Hershel

From david at image2image.co.uk Fri Jun 14 04:13:01 2002
From: david at image2image.co.uk (David Lloyd Parker)
Date: Fri Jun 14 04:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Domain Name Problem
Message-ID: <1311443054.20020614100939@image2image.co.uk>

Thanks to those that responded on this, and sorry for the tardy response. I
managed to get switch myself off from the list!

I omitted to say that the .com owner is also based in the UK (Coventry I believe
- about 60 miles away).
Could I be forgiven for thinking that they have deliberately set out to pinch
business from an already established one? If their business were in the US I
would have no quibble at all. Any opinions in the light of this much
appreciated.

Original post:

Sorry list - this is OT, but would very much appreciate any feedback on the
following from any learned colleagues in the UK that may have come across the
following problem -

I've been in business as 'Image 2 Image' in the UK for about 5 years,
and have the .co.uk and .net names registered. The .com address was not
available when I started, and in any case was registered to a US company selling
Christmas products, so no problem. I've kept my eye on the domain but never seen
it for sale. I've just had an email:

"Dear David, (I assume)
have just been browsing the net, and came across your site.my interest is
that i've just started up my own web design company, which happens to be
image2image.com.I havn't come across any people going to each others sites by
mistake yet, but if they do start to do so,perhaps we can arrange some kind
of mutually agreeable arrangement.Don't ask me what, but i'm sure that as our
fields cross and we do diverge in some regards.We may be of use to each other
in the future.
I'm not in any way 'testing the competion' or anything other than friendly
contact with a company that may share some traffic!
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours"

and I responded with :

"I have to say I was pretty annoyed about this! I've been Image 2 Image for
around 5 years now, and image2image.com was a US based christmas shop when I started. I
periodically checked the domain but never found it for sale. My old site clearly
showed that I did web stuff, and my new one even more so. Surely you checked for
other Image 2 Image sites before you set up?"

and they responded with:

" Thanks for replying so soon,I understand your feelings about this.When we
registered this domain, it was initially for the propmaking /scenepainting
business that my wife and I set up. We eventually changed the name of that
company though and image2image was left sitting idle.When we decided to
branch out into the web area, it was only sensible that we used this domain
name that was going to waste!
As I said I understand your feelings on this, and if there is some kind of
soloution for any mistaken traffic, then I would be willing to
participate.The danger of course is losing business to each other which we
obviously both wish to avoid.
If you have any ideas then please don't hesitate to contact me.
yours"

My company is 'sole proprietor' only.

If anyone has any practical legal advice on this I would very much appreciate an
email off-list. Thanks in anticipation.

From ben at inchima.com Fri Jun 14 06:07:00 2002
From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips)
Date: Fri Jun 14 06:07:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Domain Name Problem
In-Reply-To: <1311443054.20020614100939@image2image.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002501c21393$82d2ab80$0300a8c0@BS>

> I omitted to say that the .com owner is also based in the UK
> (Coventry I believe
> - about 60 miles away).
> Could I be forgiven for thinking that they have deliberately
> set out to pinch business from an already established one? If
> their business were in the US I would have no quibble at all.
> Any opinions in the light of this much appreciated.

if you are a registered company, they are imitating your company. it's
against the law.

however, i did a quick search at companieshouse.co.uk and couldn't find
image2image as a registered company. if you're not a registered company
then you haven't got a leg to stand on.

if you are, it looks like you are gonna have to take them to court.
expensive legal fees...

you will have to show that you have contacted the company to explain
that they are inflicting on your trademark and that you have asked them
to stop doing so. then take them to court if they continue.
unfortunately, you'll probably have to pay the fees, and it will also
take a long time.

benji
inchima.com

From design at web-artel.net Fri Jun 14 06:27:01 2002
From: design at web-artel.net (Dmytro Borovsky)
Date: Fri Jun 14 06:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PAGE OPTIMIZATION: source readability v. download weight
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE033018@ati-ex-01.ati.local> <018a01c2125f$595549f0$2860398a@newcos.com> <00a901c2129e$dd01a340$6c7ba8c0@zoominternet.net> <004601c212fd$c6b43580$2860398a@newcos.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c21389$ea32a4b0$0e512ad4@DMYTROB>

> IE doesn't allow you to adjust
> _cellspacing_ in CSS; it does allow you to adjust the padding of the cell.

Simple
table { border-collapse: collapse; }
removes any cell spacing.
Also it allows you to create a 1px width borders.

Best regards.
Dmytro Borovsky.
Web Studio http://www.web-artel.net/

From mark at cyberfuddle.com Fri Jun 14 06:30:01 2002
From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher)
Date: Fri Jun 14 06:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] anyone have Movable Type (blog) experience?
References: <20020612220332.42282.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com> <3D083DCA.5090808@cyberfuddle.com> <004c01c212f3$986b0aa0$eeb3fea9@dansk.ca>
Message-ID: <3D09D414.3010607@cyberfuddle.com>

Michele Foster wrote:
> Mark,
>
> How does one delete the Melody account? Just playing with MT for my sis ..
> and didn't see a way to delete that account. P.S. I know nothing in the
> way of perl/php .. simple instructions greatly appreciated. :)

When you log into Movable Type, you will see an option: "Add/Edit Blog
Authors". Follow the link, and in the "author edit" page you'll see
another link entitled "view complete list of authors". Click this link,
and you'll be shown a complete list of authors (hence the name). Set
the checkbox in the "Delete" column to checked, then click the "Delete"
button.

That's two down, 32768 to go. I'm really catching up on my OT posts now!

--
Mark Gallagher
http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/

From karen at miinx.com.au Fri Jun 14 07:48:01 2002
From: karen at miinx.com.au (Karen J. Bowen)
Date: Fri Jun 14 07:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] currency delimiter
Message-ID: <3D0769C8.3070507@miinx.com.au>

having a mental blank...

writing an INSERT statement for an Access DB and cannot remember (nor
find) the delimiters for a currency data type.

I've got:

sSql = "INSERT INTO tblWines(singlePrice, allPrice) VALUES (" &
singlecost & ", " & allcost & ");"

where singlecost & allcost are currency fields in the db.

I thought % was the currency delimiter but that ain't working.

Thanks,
Karen

From ken.kogler at cph.org Fri Jun 14 08:04:01 2002
From: ken.kogler at cph.org (Ken Kogler)
Date: Fri Jun 14 08:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] with Enter, onBlur is preceded by onSubmit
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:

> seriously though, why cripple behavior users are
> accustomed to simply because you find it annoying?

If everyone else jumped off a bridge, would you do it too? :-)

> what about this behavior is problematic, in your opinion?

I didn't really notice it until my school had me build them an online
admissions application. I built it (split across 2 pages), and as soon as it
went live, we started getting incomplete form submissions from the IE users.
Turns out people were pressing 'enter' too early and submitting incomplete
forms.

Granted, this wouldn't be a problem if they had let me do any kind of
validation on the input, but that would have "added to the wait time" by too
much...

I think overall, using enter to submit a form can be a good idea, especially
with shorter forms like logins. It's just that with longer forms, it starts
to yeild bad results.

-Ken

From steve.cook at evitbe.com Fri Jun 14 08:20:00 2002
From: steve.cook at evitbe.com (Steve Cook)
Date: Fri Jun 14 08:20:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] currency delimiter
Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5213B15E@SBS>

What's an example of the data you are trying to insert?? Looking at Access
help it says the following:

Currency
Displays a number according to the Windows regional setting for
currency, with a thousands separator if appropriate and two decimal places.
For example, with the default United States English regional settings,
$2,532.75.

Euro currency
Displays a number as euro currency, with a thousands separator and
out two decimal places. The euro sign is placed before or after the number
according to the regional settings for currency in Windows Control Panel.
For example, with the default United States English regional settings,
12.35.

It looks from that as though you just go ahead and use the appropriate
delimiter for your installation of Access.

----------------------------------
Cookstour - http://cookstour.org
----------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karen J. Bowen [mailto:karen at miinx.com.au]
> Sent: den 12 juni 2002 17:33
> To: thelist
> Subject: [thelist] currency delimiter
>
>
> having a mental blank...
>
> writing an INSERT statement for an Access DB and cannot remember (nor
> find) the delimiters for a currency data type.
>

>
> I thought % was the currency delimiter but that ain't working.
>
> Thanks,
> Karen
>

From info at kostaldesign.de Fri Jun 14 08:37:01 2002
From: info at kostaldesign.de (Kostal Design | Sebastian Kostal)
Date: Fri Jun 14 08:37:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Validation > pressure on software companies??
In-Reply-To: <1046.139.130.216.191.1024033584.squirrel@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID:

>> I've seen valid code that breaks on NN 4.5 Mac. So the validator seems
>> to me no measure to assure correct page display.
>
> As it shouldn't be. If that was happening then it would be the html standard
> following browser foibles instead of browsers trying to follow the standard.

I have mixed feelings about that. Netscape 4.5 is still a broadly used
browser and one of the browsers I always test on. I agree that standards are
important as a foundation. On top of this you can build non standards
features that wont show, if they are not suported or not incorporated.

Still, a site that does not work on a relatively recent browser is not a
good design, even if it validates, because the goal is not to meet a
standard in the end, but serve people a website that functions.

Sebastian

From david_kutcher at hotmail.com Fri Jun 14 08:47:00 2002
From: david_kutcher at hotmail.com (David Kutcher)
Date: Fri Jun 14 08:47:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] "stopped" pop-up windows: graceful exit with errors?
References: <20020614041905.91710.qmail@web10704.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID:

If anyone has popupstopper software installed, would you speak up if you are
willing to become a test-subject?

I have a few javascripts that I believe will get around it, but I would like
to be sure :)

David
www.confluentforms.com

From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Fri Jun 14 08:52:00 2002
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Fri Jun 14 08:52:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] "stopped" pop-up windows: graceful exit with errors?
In-Reply-To: ; from david_kutcher@hotmail.com on Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 09:44:59AM -0400
References: <20020614041905.91710.qmail@web10704.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020614145131.A6726@chillibean.dsvr.co.uk>

On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 09:44:59AM -0400, David Kutcher wrote:
> If anyone has popupstopper software installed, would you speak up if you are
> willing to become a test-subject?

I'm running Privoxy here (http://www.privoxy.org), which is the new
version of Junkbuster, in addition to the config options in Mozilla.

> I have a few javascripts that I believe will get around it, but I would like
> to be sure :)

I think the phrase is "come and have a go if you think you're hard enough"
*:)

G.

--
----------------------------------------------------
WORK: http://spiked.co.uk
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk

From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Fri Jun 14 08:56:01 2002
From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher)
Date: Fri Jun 14 08:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Do I need a CMS
Message-ID:

> I am building a site now with an Articles section. This Articles
section
> will contain the approx 1000 articles the site owner has written in
MS Word.
> I have a utility to convert them (en masse) to HTML and I am writing
a Perl
> script to strip off everything from these HTML files but the actual
article
> text. The articles are divided into categories and some of the
categories
> are divided into subcategories.
[snip]
> I am wondering if I am missing any functionality here that might be
useful.

Hi, Hershel --

Many years ago, I read my first book about HTML and realized instantly
that because I used a WP package (XyWrite) that was pure ASCII, and its
control codes were all optionally hidden inside << and >> (i.e., the
double European quotation marks), AND because this package came with
its own proper programming language, I could easily write a program to
take my existing text files and convert them to HTML.

So I have a few suggestions for you, since I've essentially already
done what you're about to do, but in a more convenient form. The
strategy to follow is this:
Convert every formatting code you'd like to preserve. Then strip out
any remaining formatting codes.

If a particular text file has a header (text to appear on top of all
pages), you might want to convert that to title tag. (Of course, leave
the auto-page numbering stuff to strip out later.) Or, since you plan
to use a CMS, you might want to have all your titles blank initially...
up to you.

Second, create boilerplate for your program to insert at top of every
file (you know, the DTD declaration if any, the title if any, the head
if any, and body tag), and at bottom (close the body tag, close the
html tag).

Next, headings and subheadings: did he set up styles? If he did,
convert the appropriate heading style to the correct numbered H# tag.
If he didn't, can you discern what levels he used for what combination
of centering, bold or italic, or font changes? If so, convert those.

Third, convert any italics or bold the author used. I converted to 0EM
and STRONG tags, but you might want to check his text. If it's academic
writing and his italics normally are used for citations, use the CITE
tag instead. Also, if he used underlining at all, check why and convert
appropriately. (Many academic authors use them for CITE.)

The LAST thing you want to do is strip out all other control codes. The
trickiest thing you probably want to do is replace all CR-LF character
combinations with something like
CR-LF
Why backwards? Because it's easiest to then remove the first from
your file, and the last from your file, within your program. There
will still be some cleanup to do, but it should be minimal. For
example, P tags before H tags can be automatically (regex) found and
deleted.

Hope this helps.

Cheers --
Carol (techwatcher)

From eric.d.means at boeing.com Fri Jun 14 09:00:01 2002
From: eric.d.means at boeing.com (Means, Eric D)
Date: Fri Jun 14 09:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] "stopped" pop-up windows: graceful exit with errors
?
Message-ID: <9CFB687ADA93234DB835E8E4CA98B928019F6ED3@XCH-STL-07.mw.nos.boeing.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Kutcher [mailto:david_kutcher at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 8:45 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] "stopped" pop-up windows: graceful exit with
errors?
>
> If anyone has popupstopper software installed, would you speak up if you
are
> willing to become a test-subject?

I've got Proxomitron.

From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Fri Jun 14 09:07:01 2002
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Fri Jun 14 09:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP on W2k/IIS5 - Any gotchas to be aware of?
Message-ID: <20020614150603.B6726@chillibean.dsvr.co.uk>

Hi,

I have a client who is considering bringing their site (which we built
last year) in house and hosting it on their IIS5/MSSQL servers. They've
had enough of the company currently hosting it (and having had to clean up
their mess on a regular basis I don't blame them).

The site is a pretty basic PHP/MySQL setup with some CMS features. Nothing
too complicated, just your bog standard SELECT, UPDATE and INSERT's, so
the DB move shouldn't be too hard.

I've said that I'll do some digging for any potential gotchas or problems
they might incur during this move and I wanted to know if anyone has any
tips they'd like to share.

The usual googling throws up some info, but nothing really concrete, and
www.faqts.com doesn't really have anything relevant that I can see. I'd
much prefer to hear from anyone with real life experience of this kind
of move.

TIA

G.

--
----------------------------------------------------
WORK: http://spiked.co.uk
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk

From genghis at members.evolt.org Fri Jun 14 09:18:01 2002
From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar)
Date: Fri Jun 14 09:18:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP on W2k/IIS5 - Any gotchas to be aware of?
In-Reply-To: <20020614150603.B6726@chillibean.dsvr.co.uk>
Message-ID:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Garrett Coakley
> Sent: 14 June 2002 15:06
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] PHP on W2k/IIS5 - Any gotchas to be aware of?
>
> I've said that I'll do some digging for any potential gotchas or problems
> they might incur during this move and I wanted to know if anyone has any
> tips they'd like to share.

Just this one (really big) one, if it applies
to your app:

You can't send header() and cookies/session data
on the same page.

If that *is* a problem...

Right now on an NT-based platform I'd be putting
Apache2 on it and running PHP as a CGI until the
module gets out of beta. The new Apache actually
works on NT/2K at least as well as IIS.

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 8933 1494 M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657 E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------

From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Fri Jun 14 09:25:00 2002
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Fri Jun 14 09:25:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP on W2k/IIS5 - Any gotchas to be aware of?
In-Reply-To: ; from genghis@members.evolt.org on Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 03:17:05PM +0100
References: <20020614150603.B6726@chillibean.dsvr.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20020614152431.A10891@chillibean.dsvr.co.uk>

On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 03:17:05PM +0100, John Handelaar wrote:

> You can't send header() and cookies/session data
> on the same page.
>
> If that *is* a problem...

Hmmm... that *could* be a problem, depends on whether they really want to
use the administration tool or not. Arse. You got a link where I can read
about this, or is it just from bitter experience? *:)

> Right now on an NT-based platform I'd be putting
> Apache2 on it and running PHP as a CGI until the
> module gets out of beta. The new Apache actually
> works on NT/2K at least as well as IIS.

I did suggest this to them, but they don't have the inhouse expertise to
manage Apache, so it's not really a viable option.

Cheers fella.

G.

--
----------------------------------------------------
WORK: http://spiked.co.uk
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk

From headlemur at clearskymail.com Fri Jun 14 09:39:00 2002
From: headlemur at clearskymail.com (the head lemur)
Date: Fri Jun 14 09:39:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Interupting the holy wars for a moment
Message-ID: <003101c213b1$181a2160$0400a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>

Currently we consume the internet by the size of the pipe we are willing to
pay for.

There is some new thinking about content delivery, charging by type.

"Delivering Differentiated Services Through Deep Content Inspection"

http://www.commsdesign.com/printableArticle?doc_id=OEG20020604S0061

This is the scariest article I have ever read on the web.

the head lemur
News: http://www.lemurzone.com/news/
Interviews: http://www.lemurzone.com/pixelview/
Standards: http://webstandards.org
Community: http://www.evolt.org

From david.appleton at barnardos.org.uk Fri Jun 14 09:58:01 2002
From: david.appleton at barnardos.org.uk (David Appleton)
Date: Fri Jun 14 09:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Problem with JRUN and Server Side Includes
Message-ID:

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Hello!

I'm creating a site which has got a fair few SSI's in it. I'm having a problem though when it comes to JSP pages.

I am using the following declarations to import the style sheets, which obviously works fine on normal HTML pages...

...However, when JRun interprets pages containing this code, it ignores it and simply shows it as comment.

Has anyone come across this one before and if so, how do I get around it?

Thanks in advance.
Dave.

______________________________________________________________________

Important Notice
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It is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient/s.
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From michael at tapinternet.com Fri Jun 14 10:09:01 2002
From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael Kimsal)
Date: Fri Jun 14 10:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP on W2k/IIS5 - Any gotchas to be aware of?
References: <20020614150603.B6726@chillibean.dsvr.co.uk> <20020614152431.A10891@chillibean.dsvr.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3D0A071E.8050605@tapinternet.com>

Garrett Coakley wrote:

>On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 03:17:05PM +0100, John Handelaar wrote:
>
>
>
>>You can't send header() and cookies/session data
>>on the same page.
>>
>>If that *is* a problem...
>>
>>
>
>
>Hmmm... that *could* be a problem, depends on whether they really want to
>use the administration tool or not. Arse. You got a link where I can read
>about this, or is it just from bitter experience? *:)
>
>
>
>
>>Right now on an NT-based platform I'd be putting
>>Apache2 on it and running PHP as a CGI until the
>>module gets out of beta. The new Apache actually
>>works on NT/2K at least as well as IIS.
>>
>>
>
>
>I did suggest this to them, but they don't have the inhouse expertise to
>manage Apache, so it's not really a viable option.
>
>
>

Just sticking my nose in here, but it doesn't really sound like they
have the
experise to manage *any* webserver inhouse. They are moving *away* from
something
(bad experience) not specifically moving *toward* something else.

Regardless of the consultative advice you give them, they're probably
convinced that they can do better than the external company, so that's
what they'll do.

Is it currently running under W2k IIS5? Doesn't sound like it,
otherwise you'd
already know the pitfalls. Do they have web developers and network
admins on staff?
If not, why try to migrate something to a completely different platform
from what it
was written on, ignoring not only the caution of the original developer,
but their
own ignorance of what's involved?

I just don't get it. Talk to them about moving to another application
host -
call me if you'd like and we can arrange something. (shamless plug!).
But please
please please don't let them try to host it themselves on IIS5 - it's a
disaster
waiting to happen.

(pulling nose out now)

Michael Kimsal
http://www.logicreate.com
1-866-745-3660 (toll free)
1-734-480-9961

From r937 at interlog.com Fri Jun 14 10:11:00 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Jun 14 10:11:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Interupting the holy wars for a moment
Message-ID: <01c213b5$1e2450e0$40ea059a@rudy>

>"Delivering Differentiated Services Through Deep Content Inspection"
>
>http://www.commsdesign.com/printableArticle?doc_id=OEG20020604S0061

alan, i got "Langa Letter: What's Bugging You?" about software quality

and it was a real yawner, not scary at all

wrong url, maybe?

rudy

From ben at inchima.com Fri Jun 14 10:17:00 2002
From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips)
Date: Fri Jun 14 10:17:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Interupting the holy wars for a moment
In-Reply-To: <01c213b5$1e2450e0$40ea059a@rudy>
Message-ID: <001b01c213b6$68b652b0$0300a8c0@BS>

> >"Delivering Differentiated Services Through Deep Content Inspection"
> >
> >http://www.commsdesign.com/printableArticle?doc_id=OEG20020604S0061
>
> alan, i got "Langa Letter: What's Bugging You?" about software quality
>
> and it was a real yawner, not scary at all
>
> wrong url, maybe?

it worked for me...
"Delivering Differentiated Services Through Deep Content Inspection"

try:
http://www.commsdesign.com/story/OEG20020604S0061

benji
inchima.com

From hassan at webtuitive.com Fri Jun 14 10:19:01 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Fri Jun 14 10:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Problem with JRUN and Server Side Includes
References:
Message-ID: <3D0A095F.675EB117@webtuitive.com>

David Appleton wrote:

> I'm creating a site which has got a fair few SSI's in it. I'm having a problem though when it comes to JSP pages.
>
> I am using the following declarations to import the style sheets, which obviously works fine on normal HTML pages...
>
>
>
> ...However, when JRun interprets pages containing this code, it ignores it and simply shows it as comment.
>
> Has anyone come across this one before and if so, how do I get around it?

I've never tried to use SSIs with JRun, but why not just use the
standard JSP include? Assuming there's no code to be interpreted
in the included file,

--
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com

-- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --

From jeff at members.evolt.org Fri Jun 14 10:20:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Fri Jun 14 10:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] with Enter, onBlur is preceded by onSubmit
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:

ken,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Ken Kogler
>
> > seriously though, why cripple behavior users are
> > accustomed to simply because you find it annoying?
>
> If everyone else jumped off a bridge, would you do it
> too? :-)
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

i'm a human, not a lemming, so no.

;p

seriously though, it sounds like you consider form submission with the enter
key to be a really bad thing. that's unfortunate as it saves users untold
amounts of time when dealing with forms as they don't have to take their
hands from the keyboard, move them to the mouse, move the cursor around the
screen until they've got it on the submit button, and then click it.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > what about this behavior is problematic, in your
> > opinion?
>
> I didn't really notice it until my school had me build
> them an online admissions application. I built it (split
> across 2 pages), and as soon as it went live, we started
> getting incomplete form submissions from the IE users.
> Turns out people were pressing 'enter' too early and
> submitting incomplete forms.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

so? if there was additional data that was required you should have had some
validation in place to require it. unless you spoke with every person that
submitted too little information and they told you they pressed the "enter"
key, then you can only assume that was the cause. it could have just as
easily been a problem with the ui not clearly indicating to the user what
was required and what was optional.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> Granted, this wouldn't be a problem if they had let me
> do any kind of validation on the input, but that would
> have "added to the wait time" by too much...
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

ah, so partial and even completely garbage data was acceptable then?

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> I think overall, using enter to submit a form can be a
> good idea, especially with shorter forms like logins.
> It's just that with longer forms, it starts to yeild
> bad results.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

not if you're smart and have validation in place. then it doesn't matter
what size the form is. those users that press "enter" and haven't
satisfactorily completed the form yet will be told what it's missing or
incorrect while the rest get the convenience of the "enter" key working for
them.

i have just one quick question in summary. it's sort of rhetorical. why
would you never validate data that's coming in from a form? (of course, the
answer is "what? not validate data? that's crazy!").

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/

From genghis at members.evolt.org Fri Jun 14 10:26:01 2002
From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar)
Date: Fri Jun 14 10:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP on W2k/IIS5 - Any gotchas to be aware of?
In-Reply-To: <20020614152431.A10891@chillibean.dsvr.co.uk>
Message-ID:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Garrett Coakley
> Sent: 14 June 2002 15:25
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] PHP on W2k/IIS5 - Any gotchas to be aware of?
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 03:17:05PM +0100, John Handelaar wrote:
>
> > You can't send header() and cookies/session data
> > on the same page.
> >
> > If that *is* a problem...
>
>
> Hmmm... that *could* be a problem, depends on whether they really want to
> use the administration tool or not. Arse. You got a link where I can read
> about this, or is it just from bitter experience? *:)

It's a 'feature' of IIS and won't ever be fixed.

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 8933 1494 M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657 E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------

From evolt at accessibleinter.net Fri Jun 14 10:37:01 2002
From: evolt at accessibleinter.net (Bill Mason)
Date: Fri Jun 14 10:37:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Validation > pressure on software companies??
In-Reply-To:
References: <1046.139.130.216.191.1024033584.squirrel@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020614082027.009f67f0@accessibleinter.net>

At 06:36 AM 06/14/2002, you wrote:
>Netscape 4.5 is still a broadly used browser and one of the browsers I
>always test on.

I would not call a browser that I read today is down to less than 6% of the
market in broad
use. (http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/business/3468253.htm) It comes
down more to the individual's audience: some sites probably have enough
Netscape 4.x traffic to justify more support for it than others. Or it's a
business move: the last company I worked for worked closely with
AOL/Netscape providing content for AOL and Netscape.com and doing
co-branding of our content with them. In the pre-version 6 days, we had to
provide good support for 4.x for their sake, even though it was a minimal
part of our site's traffic.

>I agree that standards are important as a foundation. On top of this you
>can build non standards features that wont show, if they are not suported
>or not incorporated.
>
>Still, a site that does not work on a relatively recent browser is not a
>good design, even if it validates, because the goal is not to meet a
>standard in the end, but serve people a website that functions.

Again I would say that's audience-dependent. But Netscape 4.5 is a
four-year-old version that's long been overrun in proper support by
competing browsers, and has been known to be a bug-laden problem for all
that time. I would personally hesitate to call it "relatively recent".

Bill Mason
Accessible Internet
evolt at accessibleinter.net
http://www.accessibleinter.net/

From bill at webmarketingworx.com Fri Jun 14 10:38:01 2002
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Fri Jun 14 10:38:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] with Enter, onBlur is preceded by onSubmit
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:

Not to break up the fun, but per chance does anyone have an answer to my
question? Just in case you don't recall, it was "why is IE executing the
onBlur event AFTER the onSubmit event when the form is submitted with the
Enter key, and how do I fix it?"

Just so everyone knows, the form WILL be submitted using the Enter key.
There are other browsers besides IE that enable submission via Enter key,
and I do not wish to make it my policy to reduce browser capabilities, but
rather to add to and enhance them.

I have actually restructured the form and luckily found a different way to
do what I wanted, so the point is perhaps moot. But I am certain it will
come up again, so I'm curious if anyone knows of the cause/effect/solution.

Thanks,

Bill

From ken.kogler at cph.org Fri Jun 14 10:52:01 2002
From: ken.kogler at cph.org (Ken Kogler)
Date: Fri Jun 14 10:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] with Enter, onBlur is preceded by onSubmit
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:

> Not to break up the fun, but per chance does anyone
> have an answer to my question? Just in case you don't
> recall, it was "why is IE executing the onBlur event
> AFTER the onSubmit event when the form is submitted
> with the Enter key, and how do I fix it?"

AFAIK, pressing the Enter key does not take the focus away from the current
element until it submits the form. If your onBlur event is in "fieldA", and
the focus is there when I press Enter, the form will submit (which sets of
the onSubmit) then the browser will move focus to the submit button when it
realizes what happened, which triggers the onBlur.

This ain't scientific fact - just my observations. I could be waaaaaay off
base here.

-Ken

From eric.d.means at boeing.com Fri Jun 14 10:56:01 2002
From: eric.d.means at boeing.com (Means, Eric D)
Date: Fri Jun 14 10:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] with Enter, onBlur is preceded by onSubmit
Message-ID: <9CFB687ADA93234DB835E8E4CA98B928019F6EDA@XCH-STL-07.mw.nos.boeing.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Haenel [mailto:bill at webmarketingworx.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 10:38 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] with Enter, onBlur is preceded by onSubmit
>
> Not to break up the fun, but per chance does anyone have an answer to my
> question? Just in case you don't recall, it was "why is IE executing the
> onBlur event AFTER the onSubmit event when the form is submitted with the
> Enter key, and how do I fix it?"

Well, this is a guess, but I would assume that pressing Enter submits the
form (firing the OnSubmit), and submitting the form causes the control to
lose focus (firing the OnBlur). Nothing about the Enter key implies that it
should cause the currently focused control to lose focus AFAIK, so the
onSubmit event has to be the one fired first. In contrast, if they click
the Submit button, the control will lose focus on mousedown on the button
(fires onBlur), and onSubmit won't be fired until mouseup (per standard
control behavior - clicks occur on mouseup, not mousedown).

As for how to fix it... either catch the Enter key in an onChange handler,
or else (as you did) restructure the form so that the user is encouraged to
(or must) cause the relevant control to lose focus before submitting.

From ken.kogler at cph.org Fri Jun 14 10:58:01 2002
From: ken.kogler at cph.org (Ken Kogler)
Date: Fri Jun 14 10:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] with Enter, onBlur is preceded by onSubmit
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:

> seriously though, it sounds like you consider form
> submission with the enter key to be a really bad thing.

No, I don't. I consider it to be a convenience. I do it all the time. But
it's been my experience that the, uh, less-intelligent web user out there
can't figure out how to completely fill out a form.

I know you're screaming "then validate your input!" at your monitor, jeff,
so keep reading... :-)

> that's unfortunate as it saves users untold
> amounts of time when dealing with forms as they
> don't have to take their hands from the keyboard,
> move them to the mouse, move the cursor around the
> screen until they've got it on the submit button...

Or they could hit the 'tab' button to move focus to the submit button...

> if there was additional data that was required you
> should have had some validation in place to require it.

I'm getting there...

> unless you spoke with every person that submitted too little
> information and they told you they pressed the "enter" key,
> then you can only assume that was the cause.

We called the ones who got far enough to put their phone numbers in, and
asked them what went wrong. Out of ~40 answers, somewhere around 70% were
"the form submitted itself early" or something along those lines, due to
users not understanding that the enter key would submit the form for them.

> it could have just as easily been a problem with the ui
> not clearly indicating to the user what was required
> and what was optional.

Not discounting that one... I mean, *I* designed the UI. I'm a code monkey,
not a graphic designer... one of the "benefits" of a small school, I guess.

> so partial and even completely garbage data was acceptable then?

It was more acceptable to the administration than taking the time necessary
to come up with validation rules, and the time (and money) necessary for me
to code them.

> why would you never validate data that's coming in from a form?
> (of course, the answer is "what? not validate data? that's crazy!").

And that's what I said. The form just took the results and fired off an
email to the admissions people... this was far from a high-tech solution
involving db integration or anything like that. To the people who control
the projects I work on and budget my hours, validation was not a priority
(since this was a "simple" form), until the incomplete forms started coming
in.

When I first built the form, I asked for the validation rules (format for
the phone number, 5 or 9 digit zip code, etc), and the reply I got was along
the lines of "let the admissions people worry about sorting through the
data. Your job is to build the form, not worry about data."

So I smiled that "I'm going to make you eat those words" smile and went
ahead and coded the stupid thing. After the 50th incomplete form came in, I
asked my boss if he wanted me to do some basic validation, and he finally
agreed. Now you can press enter as many times as you want, and each time the
form comes back to you without being submitted with helpful hints about how
to fill it out correctly. It's a beautiful thing.

I think the "annoying and obnoxious" comments that set this thing off were
just some left over hostility towards my job at the school and my boss in
particular. :-)

*sigh*... back to work.

--Ken

From david.appleton at barnardos.org.uk Fri Jun 14 11:00:01 2002
From: david.appleton at barnardos.org.uk (David Appleton)
Date: Fri Jun 14 11:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Problem with JRUN and Server Side Includes
Message-ID:

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I don't really want to do that.

The problem here is that the includes are being used within templates which form the basis of the site. For simplicity (and easy maintenance) these includes contain things like global navigation, footers and style sheets etc. I want the JSP pages to work from the same templates as the rest of the site (which will be .html pages). I'm using DreamWeaver templates for this so I don't want to be altering more templates than I have to.

The site doesn't contain a great amount of JSP pages, so I'd like to avoid naming every page .JSP (although that is an option I suppose). Maybe I'm just being fussy, but I'm doing a complete redevelopment so I'm looking for it to be as streamline as possible.

Any more ideas would be very welcome!

Thanks.

>>> hassan at webtuitive.com 14 June 2002 16:18:55 >>>
David Appleton wrote:

> I'm creating a site which has got a fair few SSI's in it. I'm having a problem though when it comes to JSP pages.
>
> I am using the following declarations to import the style sheets, which obviously works fine on normal HTML pages...
>
>
>
> ...However, when JRun interprets pages containing this code, it ignores it and simply shows it as comment.
>
> Has anyone come across this one before and if so, how do I get around it?

I've never tried to use SSIs with JRun, but why not just use the
standard JSP include? Assuming there's no code to be interpreted
in the included file,

--
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com

-- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --
--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
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From adam at hallinteractive.com Fri Jun 14 11:03:01 2002
From: adam at hallinteractive.com (Adam)
Date: Fri Jun 14 11:03:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] quick help with News/Events

News/Events

News/Events

Monospaced typefaces can draw too much attention to the individual letters
distracting the reader from the message. Try to avoid for body copy.

From minid at weblogs.com.ar Fri Jun 14 11:31:01 2002
From: minid at weblogs.com.ar (mini-d)
Date: Fri Jun 14 11:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Validation > pressure on software companies??
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020614082027.009f67f0@accessibleinter.net>
Message-ID: <000001c213c0$c6de9640$0b00a8c0@diego>

Don't people chance of cars where they see is getting olders?
Don't people change TVs because they become more wider and more
confortables and full of features?

I guess if we force that 4% to move to the rest i guess it would be
better. I figure a persona one day enter to a website and see almost
everything broken, because they s***y browser can't support any
standard, i guess we don't need to redirect the visitors to a page
explaining they need to change... I guess if every company frustrates
them, they will update.

That's just my opinion. I develop for 5.x and 6 browsers... And using
standards as my boss let me use them.

Cheers!, and good weekend.

Diego Mart?n Lafuente
---------------------
Director Creativo
http://www.cercleweb.com

-----Mensaje original-----
De: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
En nombre de Bill Mason
Enviado el: viernes, 14 de junio de 2002 17:31
Para: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Asunto: Re: [thelist] Validation > pressure on software companies??

At 06:36 AM 06/14/2002, you wrote:
>Netscape 4.5 is still a broadly used browser and one of the browsers I
>always test on.

I would not call a browser that I read today is down to less than 6% of
the market in broad use.
(http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/business/3468253.htm) It comes down
more to the individual's audience: some sites probably have enough
Netscape 4.x traffic to justify more support for it than others. Or
it's a business move: the last company I worked for worked closely with
AOL/Netscape providing content for AOL and Netscape.com and doing
co-branding of our content with them. In the pre-version 6 days, we had
to provide good support for 4.x for their sake, even though it was a
minimal part of our site's traffic.

/* TRIM */

From evolt at david.us-lot.org Fri Jun 14 11:40:01 2002
From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward)
Date: Fri Jun 14 11:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] "stopped" pop-up windows: graceful exit with errors?
In-Reply-To:
References: <20020614041905.91710.qmail@web10704.mail.yahoo.com>

Message-ID: <20020614162944.35e08757.evolt@david.us-lot.org>

On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:44:59 -0400
"David Kutcher" wrote:

> If anyone has popupstopper software installed, would you speak up if
> you are willing to become a test-subject?

{Raise hand}

> I have a few javascripts that I believe will get around it, but I
> would like to be sure :)

You can try... but it works by completely disabling window.open()
(which is why link is about the only thing that will work.

--
David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/
HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV.

From jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk Fri Jun 14 11:42:00 2002
From: jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk (Jon Haworth)
Date: Fri Jun 14 11:42:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Interupting the holy wars for a moment
Message-ID: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F010C42D0@BOOTROS>

> >"Delivering Differentiated Services Through Deep Content Inspection"
> >
> >http://www.commsdesign.com/printableArticle?doc_id=OEG20020604S0061
>
> alan, i got "Langa Letter: What's Bugging You?" about software quality
>
> and it was a real yawner, not scary at all
>
> wrong url, maybe?
>

I got "how to get loads more money out of everyone by sniffing content
types" (well, ok, "Delivering Differentiated Services Through Deep Content
Inspection")

Strange.

I'm on IE6/Win2k -- what are you using, rudy?

Cheers
Jon

From david_kutcher at hotmail.com Fri Jun 14 12:15:00 2002
From: david_kutcher at hotmail.com (David Kutcher)
Date: Fri Jun 14 12:15:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] "stopped" pop-up windows: graceful exit with errors?
References: <20020614041905.91710.qmail@web10704.mail.yahoo.com> <20020614162944.35e08757.evolt@david.us-lot.org>
Message-ID:

> You can try... but it works by completely disabling window.open()
> (which is why link is about the only thing that will work.

well, please go here (http://www.boyburnsbarn.com/popup_web.html) and tell
me if that doesn't spawn two daughter windows when you click on "click me"

David
www.confluentforms.com

From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Fri Jun 14 12:54:01 2002
From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher)
Date: Fri Jun 14 12:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Guru help needed, LI and P
Message-ID:

Hi, some expert --

Along with my learn-CSS project I am necessarily doing a review-HTML-
4.0 project (although I actually use the XHTML transitional DTD; the
XHTML spec refers to the HTML spec, plus changes... annoying, that.).
Now I have a major question:

The P element (necessarily including start and end tag for XML, and so
also for XHTML) cannot [NOT] include a block-level element. UL is, of
course, a block-level element. (As far as I know, the technical
definition of a block-level element is that it creates a line-feed/cr.)

I had previously assumed I could put lists inside paragraphs, and
paragraphs inside lists. Now I know better. I can't put lists inside
paragraphs.

But can I still put paragraphs inside the LI (list item)? I have been
doing this a lot. I also don't know yet what I might do if P within LI
turns out to be invalid, according to the spec!

The LI forces a line-feed, thus it might be a block-level element. But
I can't find anything in this element's definition that says it can or
cannot contain another block-level element (whereas the definition of P
explicitly forbids this).

I wish the spec would be explicit in all cases about what I can and
cannot include within an element, or what can include an element.
Grumble, grumble, grumble....

Cheers
Carol Stein
techwatcher at accesswriters.com

From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Fri Jun 14 13:01:01 2002
From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher)
Date: Fri Jun 14 13:01:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: thelist digest, Vol 1 #2389 - 33 msgs
Message-ID:

> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:42:28 +0100
> From: "David Appleton"
> To:
> Subject: [thelist] Problem with JRUN and Server Side Includes
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> Hello!
>
> I'm creating a site which has got a fair few SSI's in it. I'm having
> I am using the following declarations to import the style sheets,
which obviously works fine on normal HTML pages...
>
>
>
> ...However, when JRun interprets pages containing this code, it
ignores it and simply shows it as comment.
>
> Has anyone come across this one before and if so, how do I get around
it?

Ummm, I've only done a few SSI's myself, but that space at the end
before the --> would certainly be a problem in my own pages. The
statement MUST NOT include a space BEFORE the #include or AFTER in
front of the -->
Cheers --
techwatcher (Carol Stein)

From pixelmech at yahoo.com Fri Jun 14 13:01:10 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Jun 14 13:01:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] site check please
Message-ID: <20020614180030.28197.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

I've finally gotten my personal/family web site running. It's not much but I could use a site
check, not only to see if its performing well on platforms, but I'll take critical advice of any
kind, color, layout whatever you think.

Here's the deal:

1) I took one of bluerobot.com's CSS layouts, so give me no credit for it. I made very slight
changes to it to suit my needs.

2) I am using Movable Type to add new "news" entries to the main page, and my wife will use it to
add poems to her page. Those are the only two pages it is used on. I've combined the MT css with
the BlueRobot one, and added just a few of my own styles.

3) I am slightly concerned about font sizes. The BlueRobot CSS specs in pixel sizes, so I will be
interested to see how it looks, particularly in NS4 (blech)

4) The DOCTYPE is XHTML, but I have not yet tried to validate it. (I need to go through the code
first)

5) I also need to know how it looks on a mac (even better, an iMac) with version 5 browser, which
is what my parents have.

Thanks, looking forward to hearing comments.

Tom

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com Fri Jun 14 13:05:01 2002
From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green)
Date: Fri Jun 14 13:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] site check please
Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE31EE69@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com>

Tom, I have an IMac at home and would love to look at it... but... unless I missed it, I think you forgot to include the link ;)
Janet

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Dell'Aringa [mailto:pixelmech at yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 1:01 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] site check please

Hi all,

I've finally gotten my personal/family web site running. It's not much but I could use a site
check, not only to see if its performing well on platforms, but I'll take critical advice of any
kind, color, layout whatever you think.

From pixelmech at yahoo.com Fri Jun 14 13:06:04 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Jun 14 13:06:04 2002
Subject: [thelist] site check please
In-Reply-To: <20020614180030.28197.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020614180526.23444.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>

ack..ok so I didn't give a URL..oops

www.pixelmech.com
--- Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've finally gotten my personal/family web site running. It's not much but I could use a site
> check, not only to see if its performing well on platforms, but I'll take critical advice of any
> kind, color, layout whatever you think.
>
> Here's the deal:
>
> 1) I took one of bluerobot.com's CSS layouts, so give me no credit for it. I made very slight
> changes to it to suit my needs.
>
> 2) I am using Movable Type to add new "news" entries to the main page, and my wife will use it
> to
> add poems to her page. Those are the only two pages it is used on. I've combined the MT css with
> the BlueRobot one, and added just a few of my own styles.
>
> 3) I am slightly concerned about font sizes. The BlueRobot CSS specs in pixel sizes, so I will
> be
> interested to see how it looks, particularly in NS4 (blech)
>
> 4) The DOCTYPE is XHTML, but I have not yet tried to validate it. (I need to go through the code
> first)
>
> 5) I also need to know how it looks on a mac (even better, an iMac) with version 5 browser,
> which
> is what my parents have.
>
> Thanks, looking forward to hearing comments.
>
> Tom
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From evolt at accessibleinter.net Fri Jun 14 13:07:02 2002
From: evolt at accessibleinter.net (Bill Mason)
Date: Fri Jun 14 13:07:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Guru help needed, LI and P
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020614110351.009ebec0@accessibleinter.net>

At 10:53 AM 06/14/2002, you wrote:
>But can I still put paragraphs inside the LI (list item)?

Yes. This is valid XHTML.

Bill Mason
Accessible Internet
evolt at accessibleinter.net
http://www.accessibleinter.net/

From webguy at mail.rit.edu Fri Jun 14 14:20:01 2002
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Fri Jun 14 14:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] oh joy -- cursors and t-sql abound!
In-Reply-To: <01c20349$8f4bca40$40e7059a@rudy>
Message-ID:

Hi all-

I'm having a bit of difficulty with a particularly complex query I'm
running. To give you some background, this is SQL Server 7 on NT4 and I'm
working with cursors in stored procedures.

I'll spare you from the entire sp (it's quite long) but the problem I'm
having is with parameters that I want to pass into the sp itself. Take a
look at this cursor declaration:

DECLARE tnames_cursor CURSOR LOCAL FORWARD_ONLY STATIC READ_ONLY
FOR
SELECT article_id, max(k.rank) rank
FROM paragraphs t1
INNER JOIN CONTAINSTABLE(paragraphs, paragraph_text, @term) k
ON t1.paragraph_id = k.[key]
WHERE article_id

IN(
SELECT article_id
FROM journal_article t1
INNER JOIN journals t2 on
t1.journal_id = t2.journal_id
WHERE
t2.productcode IN(2175,2208)
)

GROUP BY article_id
ORDER BY rank desc

Now, note that there's an "@term" variable being specified in the
CONTAINSTABLE() clause. That is the parameter I'm trying to pass into the
SP, however since I'm declaring the cursor FOR that query, I cannot use the
variable in that context. This is bad news for me since I need to be able
to specify a dynamic @term variable (it's the search terms specified for the
full-text search on the paragraphs table).

So what to do? Is there anything I _can_ do? I owe big for this one! TIA!

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

From jeff at members.evolt.org Fri Jun 14 14:33:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Fri Jun 14 14:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] with Enter, onBlur is preceded by onSubmit
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:

bill,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Bill Haenel
>
> Not to break up the fun, but per chance does anyone have
> an answer to my question? Just in case you don't recall,
> it was "why is IE executing the onBlur event AFTER the
> onSubmit event when the form is submitted with the Enter
> key, and how do I fix it?"
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

the answer to the first part of the question is simple. the enter key
doesn't cause the cursor to leave the focused field until the browser
changes pages to follow the action attribute of the form. it's the
unloading of the page that causes the focused element to blur, not the
pressing of the "enter" key.

the answer to the second half isn't so simple. i would suggest doing what
you can to avoid this ever being an issue. in general, it's a good practice
to avoid firing field level validation from the onblur event. you're much
better off using an event like onchange, onkeydown, onkeyup, onkeypress,
etc. -- events that can be cancelled. these events should be used to either
restrict input or to manipulate the ui, but should be used for validation.
wherever possible, that should be kept within the function that's called
from the onsubmit event handler.

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/

From mark at markgroen.com Fri Jun 14 14:49:01 2002
From: mark at markgroen.com (Mark Groen)
Date: Fri Jun 14 14:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Interupting the holy wars for a moment
In-Reply-To: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F010C42D0@BOOTROS>
Message-ID: <3D09E5D2.10225.15C79CA@localhost>

> I got "how to get loads more money out of everyone by sniffing content
> types" (well, ok, "Delivering Differentiated Services Through Deep
> Content Inspection")
>
> Strange.
I got the same thing as Jon. Packet sniffers such as the ones they are talking
about are kinda worrisome to me also as it's expensive enough as it is for
broadband for those in the under 30K crowd. Although, a lot more people
would be interested in what the people that come up with sites like the
following have to say once/if this is a reality. Of course there is also the
alternative internet like dot-god.com that doesn't use the US govt. root
servers for DNS. And DefCon will definitely come up with an interesting way
to handle this too.

http://www.dot-god.com/technical/test/surfing.html
http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Main/WebHome
http://www.obeygiant.com/
http://www.cluetrain.com/
http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Main/WebHome
http://www.defcon.org/

From slewis at macrovista.net Fri Jun 14 14:54:03 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Fri Jun 14 14:54:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] Validation > pressure on software companies??
References:
Message-ID: <3D0A4AFD.2070905@macrovista.net>

Kostal Design|Sebastian Kostal wrote:

>>>I've seen valid code that breaks on NN 4.5 Mac. So the validator seems
>>>to me no measure to assure correct page display.
>>
>>As it shouldn't be. If that was happening then it would be the html standard
>>following browser foibles instead of browsers trying to follow the standard.
>
> I have mixed feelings about that. Netscape 4.5 is still a broadly used
> browser and one of the browsers I always test on.

Lachlan is spot-on here. If you want to 'validate' correct page display
for some old buggy browser (NN 4.5 Mac) you will need to use your eyes.
If you want to catch all your table data cells that do not have a
closing tag, you should use a validator instead of your eyes because the
validator will tell you where in the output the error appears, and will
always find it. Some browsers do not have problems when this tag is
missing so your eyes will not necessarily catch it.

> important as a foundation. On top of this you can build non standards
> features that wont show, if they are not suported or not incorporated.
Customizing content to the requesting user agent string is a bad thing.
a) you must maintain duplicate versions of your content with only subtle
formatting differences
b) user agent strings are easy for users to change
c) user agent strings are not forward-looking so there are going to be
arcane magics you will need to perform over your site when a new browser
comes out--plus regression testing!
d) degratability has been a goal in this thread. consider the number of
hours you will spend making these numerous browser-dependant versions of
the page all degrade nicely.
e) invariably if you are using these browser-specific tricks, and/or
trying to achieve pixel-precision, you need to make yet one more version
of your page that is printer friendly.

> Still, a site that does not work on a relatively recent browser is not a
> good design, even if it validates, because the goal is not to meet a
> standard in the end, but serve people a website that functions.
Who claimed that validation was the end-all-be-all of design or
implementation of a website? While I cannot argue with this statement,
I don't recall anyone here claimimg anything to the contrary. Microsoft
Word, with spelling and grammer checkers on, will still give it's seal
of approval to some rather poorly constructed language. There are some
well known examples passed around in education circles to show students
the value of learning to spell and use correct grammer on their own.
You still need to have some skill at working with your language to
communicate clearly, because spelling/grammer validation does not
guarantee correctness of the product, just correct application of
structures and a reduction in the number of typos.

Validation is a tool, nothing more nothing less. If you want to create
a horrible websit that validates, you can. If you want to create an
elegant degradable website that validates, is printer-friendly, and
conveys all of your content clearly in a variety of browsers and
platforms (which IMO should be the goal) you can. If you apply
validation arfully you can achieve some very impressive designs.

--Steve

From dm at lgcy.com Fri Jun 14 15:00:03 2002
From: dm at lgcy.com (Daniel Medley)
Date: Fri Jun 14 15:00:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check/advice part deux.
References:
Message-ID: <000401c213e6$f7f612a0$1fca0ed0@havoc>

Jonathan McPherson wrote:
> Agreed. Color is personal only to a point. http://www.lobowalk.com/ has a
> colorscheme that, while it is more attractive to some than others,
features
> dark text on a dark background. I found it difficult to read for that
> reason, regardless of its aesthetic merit or lack thereof.
>
> (The colors used on the site also appear to fall into the range affected
by
> my colorblindness, so I might not be seeing them accurately. 10% of the
male
> population in the US has my flavor of colorblindness, though -- so if you
> think the statistics indicate that you ought to design your sites to work
on
> non-Microsoft browsers, you have just about as much statistical backing
for
> designing sites that are attractive and functional for R-G color-blind
> users.)
Funny you should bring this up, I actually had a friend of mine who is R-G
color blind and he reports that he is able to view it quite well. However,
your point about statistical backing for designing with such people in mind
is valid. By the way, last I heard, it is something like 3% of the male
population that is effected with this. . . who knows.

Daniel

From dm at lgcy.com Fri Jun 14 15:03:00 2002
From: dm at lgcy.com (Daniel Medley)
Date: Fri Jun 14 15:03:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check/advice part deux.
References:
Message-ID: <000901c213e7$68401b00$1fca0ed0@havoc>

.
Tara Cleveland wrote concerning http://www.lobowalk.com/ :
> Daniel,
>
> After a very quick check (mac IE5 and NS6.2) I would increase the padding
> (just by a couple of pixels) on the side and middle columns to add a
little
> bit more "white" space. The larger text seems somehow more jammed in.
>
> Regards,
> Tara
I did, as per your advice, added a couple of pixels to the cell padding. I
think it makes a bit of a difference.

Thank you for your input,
Daniel.

From dm at lgcy.com Fri Jun 14 15:10:01 2002
From: dm at lgcy.com (Daniel Medley)
Date: Fri Jun 14 15:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check/advice part deux.
References: <20020613201341.17857.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c213e8$589511a0$1fca0ed0@havoc>

Tom wrote concerning http://www.lobowalk.com/ :

> Daniel,
>
> I fully agree with Tara on that..and I know color is personal, but man the
colors KILL me on the
> site, I wouldn't read it myself.
>
> Tom
I've noticed, from postings on this list, groups, and the many people of
private acquaintence who have viewed this site that there is little middle
ground here. Poeple either like it a lot or they hate it a lot. (most on the
like side). For me personally, it is killing to read black text on a white
background using a computer due to the brightness that comes from the
backlit quality of a monitor.

Although it killed you, I do appreciate the time you took to look at it.
Really:)

Daniel

From Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com Fri Jun 14 15:22:01 2002
From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com)
Date: Fri Jun 14 15:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] site check please
Message-ID:

>4) The DOCTYPE is XHTML, but I have not yet tried to validate it. (I need
to go through the code
>first)

It's not bad. Mostly closing tags. You know,
instead of
. That
sort of thing.

Question: Why use the redirect from index.html? Why not simply make
index.php the server's default file?

Something to consider: displaying the "last modifed" date with an SSI or
other server-side mechanism. That way it gets shown even if a surfer has JS
turned off. I know the comment system requires JS, so it's not a Big Thing.
Apart from that, you'll need to wrap your JS in a CDATA block to pass
validation, but you shouldn't have any trouble at all getting it to pass
with a minimal effort.

>5) I also need to know how it looks on a mac (even better, an iMac) with
version 5 browser, which
>is what my parents have.

Looks quite clean. iBook2001, OSX, IE5.1.4(4415.2)

Have fun,
Arlen
Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department
DNRC 224

Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com
----------------------------------------------
In God we trust; all others must provide data.
----------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone.
If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it.

From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Fri Jun 14 15:26:02 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Fri Jun 14 15:26:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache2 & PHP Tip
Message-ID: <001901c213e1$96ed2b10$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>

If you can't get PHP running as an SAPI module
under Apache2 on Windows, try adding this to your
httpd.conf :

LoadModule php4_module "c:/php/sapi/php4apache2.dll"
#AddModule mod_php4.c
AddType application/x-httpd-php .php

Comment out the AddModule part. It seems to choke on Apache2.
It doesn't recognize it as a valid config option. After 2 hours
of wrestling with it, I figured I'd save someone else the headache.

From slewis at macrovista.net Fri Jun 14 15:30:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Fri Jun 14 15:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Interupting the holy wars for a moment
References: <3D09E5D2.10225.15C79CA@localhost>
Message-ID: <3D0A536A.7000509@macrovista.net>

Dunno, maybe this belongs on thechat but here goes.

Mark Groen wrote:

> I got the same thing as Jon. Packet sniffers such as the ones they are talking
> about are kinda worrisome to me also as it's expensive enough as it is for
> broadband for those in the under 30K crowd. Although, a lot more people

My first reaction was, "oh, someone has been sniffing around in IPv6
documents again." (see the 8 bit Traffic Class field in IPv6 headers)

Then I remembered that ATM networks do something like this; ATM has 4
service models, with different QoS implications, and different cost
structures: CBR, VBR, ABR, and UBR (which stand for constant/ variable/
available/ unspecified bit rate).

In the case of ATM and the priority flags in IPv4, the pricing
differentiation has not been used because the processing cost of these
accounting services were too high, and degraded router performance too
greatly. That may be changing however.

The problem is that the networking equipment must go all the way to the
application layer, the deepest nested comms protocols we use, to
differentiate this traffic. This equipment will be expensive because:
teaching a device about all the comms protocols in the internet
increases cost. Inspecting the innermost protocol means traversing the
protocol stack to reach the bottom and then performing the analysis,
which means performance would suffer as each packet is "held-up" for
analysis before re-transmission, and so the equipment will require more
computational power and the analysis logic will require extensive tuning
by developers (something the article seems to overlook in it's
statements about 4GL languages decreasing time to market) so overal
device performance can reach an acceptable level.

Finally, while the stated goal is "to build networks that will be able
to properly authorize, authenticate, and account for customized services
by identifying individual packets and classifying them based on
individual customer usage and QoS requirements," this seems to assume
that content encryption will not occur at the transport layer (TCP/UDP)
or above. If it does, than content classification will fail because
these are end-to-end protocols, where encryption is encoded at packet
creation, and (idealy) can only be decrypted by the recipient.

Ppresumably they would charge their highest rate for any encrypted
content, including HTTPS traffic. That will encounter more than a
little difficulty taking hold in the industry, and would probably
require "illegal collusion" on the part of the comms
companies (not that the current administration would
notice).

In summary: The possability is more than a little frightening, but
Orwell would be proud.

--Steve

From Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov Fri Jun 14 15:38:01 2002
From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov (Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov)
Date: Fri Jun 14 15:38:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check/advice part deux.
Message-ID:

R-G colorblindness can refer to either the lack of red cones ore the lack of
green cones (since either will remove the ability to distinguish between red
and green) -- it could be that he has one, and I have the other.

Most the statistics I've read (multiple sources) place colorblindness at
about 8-10% among males, and about 4% in the population overall -- about the
same as the number of Netscape 4 users, if the stats on this list are to be
trusted. (-:

Worried about whether your colors will cause problems for R-G colorblind
users (who may comprise as much as 1/25th of your readership)? There's a
free online tool here:

http://www.vischeck.com/

It can display your website as a color-blind person would see it.

--
Jonathan.

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Medley [mailto:dm at lgcy.com]
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 2:04 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Site check/advice part deux.

Funny you should bring this up, I actually had a friend of mine who is R-G
color blind and he reports that he is able to view it quite well. However,
your point about statistical backing for designing with such people in mind
is valid. By the way, last I heard, it is something like 3% of the male
population that is effected with this. . . who knows.

Daniel

From pixelmech at yahoo.com Fri Jun 14 15:51:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Jun 14 15:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] site check please
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <20020614205012.40781.qmail@web12605.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com wrote:
> Question: Why use the redirect from index.html? Why not simply make
> index.php the server's default file?

Yeah, that is goofy. I don't know that I can change that. This site is hosted on www.bootbox.net,
which is a total free service (no ads or anything). I should email and ask, but I know they do a
few strange things, I imagine this is not something I can change on my own...so I'm afraid to just
dump the .html file, not sure what will happen (I realize I can just put it back, but want to do
it right.)

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();
http://www.pixelmech.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com Fri Jun 14 16:09:01 2002
From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com)
Date: Fri Jun 14 16:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] site check please
Message-ID:

>Yeah, that is goofy. I don't know that I can change that. This site is
hosted on www.bootbox.net,
>which is a total free service (no ads or anything). I should email and
ask, but I know they do a
>few strange things, I imagine this is not something I can change on my
own...so I'm afraid to just
>dump the .html file, not sure what will happen (I realize I can just put
it back, but want to do
>it right.)

If it's apache, an .htaccess file with "DirectoryIndex index.php" in the
root level should do it. (If their setup allows you to override it with
.htaccess files.) No idea how to do it with IIS.

You could even expand that to:
DirectoryIndex index.html index.shtml index.php

if you wanted to, and then it would choose the .php file only if the other
two files aren't present.

Have fun,
Arlen
Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department
DNRC 224

Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com
----------------------------------------------
In God we trust; all others must provide data.
----------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone.
If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it.

From pixelmech at yahoo.com Fri Jun 14 16:25:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Jun 14 16:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] site check please
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <20020614212419.38884.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]

It must be apache - the only thing in there is my 404..
ErrorDocument 404 /404.php
So if I add:
DirectoryIndex index.php
It will grab my php page right? Which is the only one I want..I suppose I could add the others to be safe but do I need them?
Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com wrote:
If it's apache, an .htaccess file with "DirectoryIndex index.php" in the
root level should do it. (If their setup allows you to override it with
.htaccess files.) No idea how to do it with IIS.

You could even expand that to:
DirectoryIndex index.html index.shtml index.php

var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();
http://www.pixelmech.com/

---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

From cvos at netpaths.net Fri Jun 14 16:26:01 2002
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Fri Jun 14 16:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Dynamic homepage and search engines.
In-Reply-To: <20020612165113.DDB9A3B17@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID:

The best thing you can do is use the apache mod rewrite feature to turn
query strings into real URI's

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_rewrite.html

on 6/12/02 9:51 AM, thelist-request at lists.evolt.org at
thelist-request at lists.evolt.org wrote:

> Dynamic homepage and search engines.

Cayley Vos, Principal
office: 360-714-8395
cell: 360-303-0150
http://netpaths.net
_______________________________________________________
web hosting | search engine marketing | web development

From Tab.Alleman at realmetros.com Fri Jun 14 16:28:01 2002
From: Tab.Alleman at realmetros.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Fri Jun 14 16:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Increasing an Integer field with SQL statement
Message-ID: <748F417236D57847829976483DEBC0C149094C@typhoon.realmetros.realmetros.com>

Hi, can I do a sql query in MySQL that would do something like this:

UPDATE table SET SomeInteger=SomeInteger+1 WHERE (Some Condition)

I know that this exact syntax doesn't work, but is there a way to do
what I'm trying to do, which is to do a math function on an integer in
the table with a SQL command?

TIA
Tab

From pixelmech at yahoo.com Fri Jun 14 16:36:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Jun 14 16:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
Message-ID: <20020614213514.62992.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>

Ok,

So I think changing my .htaccess file removed the .html index..but now I can't get my 404 page to
show.

This is what is in the file.

ErrorDocument 404 /404.php
DirectoryIndex index.php

I saved it in notepad as a text file, with ANSI selected.

Is it just that you cannot view 404.php directly in a browser? I thought you could..

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();
http://www.pixelmech.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From hassan at webtuitive.com Fri Jun 14 16:51:00 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Fri Jun 14 16:51:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Problem with JRUN and Server Side Includes
References:
Message-ID: <3D0A6521.797EC8A7@webtuitive.com>

David Appleton wrote:

> The problem here is that the includes are being used within templates which form the basis of the site. For simplicity (and easy maintenance) these includes contain things like global navigation, footers and style sheets etc. I want the JSP pages to work from the same templates as the rest of the site (which will be .html pages). I'm using DreamWeaver templates for this so I don't want to be altering more templates than I have to.

? There's no need to alter any of your templates.

> The site doesn't contain a great amount of JSP pages, so I'd like to avoid naming every page .JSP (although that is an option I suppose). Maybe I'm just being fussy, but I'm doing a complete redevelopment so I'm looking for it to be as streamline as possible.

There's no need to rename any page. The JSP pages use JSP-syntax
includes rather than SSI-syntax includes. That's it.

Not sure why this seems "unstreamlined" ... :-)

--
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com

-- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --

From martin at easyweb.co.uk Fri Jun 14 16:54:01 2002
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns)
Date: Fri Jun 14 16:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Do I need a CMS
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <26941C55-7FE1-11D6-8E3E-000502172AD3@easyweb.co.uk>

On Friday, June 14, 2002, at 02:55 pm, Techwatcher wrote:

> Third, convert any italics or bold the author used. I converted to 0EM
> and STRONG tags, but you might want to check his text. If it's academic
> writing and his italics normally are used for citations, use the CITE
> tag instead. Also, if he used underlining at all, check why and convert
> appropriately. (Many academic authors use them for CITE.)

If you possibly can, really strongly encourage the author to use Word
stylesheets rather than ad-hoc formatting.

Convince him that not only will it save time and money dropping the
articles onto the site, it'll make any print publishing he does much
easier (and therefore more likely) too.

Cheers
Martin
_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
martin at members.evolt.org snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985 Edinburgh,
url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk Scotland

From Tab.Alleman at realmetros.com Fri Jun 14 16:56:01 2002
From: Tab.Alleman at realmetros.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Fri Jun 14 16:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: Increasing an Integer field with SQL statement
Message-ID: <748F417236D57847829976483DEBC0C149094E@typhoon.realmetros.realmetros.com>

:-} <-- my best sheepish grin

The original update did work. I didn't Refresh the data-view in the GUI
and assumed it didn't work.

Doh! Sorry Everyone!

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul DuBois [mailto:paul at snake.net]

Run a SELECT that uses the same WHERE clause. It may be that you're not
really matching any rows.

From martin at easyweb.co.uk Fri Jun 14 17:02:01 2002
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns)
Date: Fri Jun 14 17:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Validation > pressure on software companies??
In-Reply-To: <000001c213c0$c6de9640$0b00a8c0@diego>
Message-ID: <429D12BD-7FE2-11D6-8E3E-000502172AD3@easyweb.co.uk>

On Friday, June 14, 2002, at 05:30 pm, mini-d wrote:

> Don't people chance of cars where they see is getting olders?

Some. Not all. I have a car which is 1998 vintage.

> Don't people change TVs because they become more wider and more
> confortables and full of features?

Some, but many can still see the programmes they want to an OK standard,
so they don't even upgrade to cable/satellite.

> I guess if we force that 4% to move to the rest i guess it would be
> better. I figure a persona one day enter to a website and see almost
> everything broken, because they s***y browser can't support any
> standard, i guess we don't need to redirect the visitors to a page
> explaining they need to change...

The day that I see signs on the road refusing entry to cars over a few
years old (and drivers happily complying) is the day I expect that to be
accepted by most users.

> I guess if every company frustrates
> them, they will update.

The more some companies refuse to serve customers because the customers
(yes, the people with the money) don't have what the companies'
designers refuse to cater for, the more their competition will say
"thankyou very much"

Doing better stuff for those with higher browser specs is fine. Refusing
to serve those without them (even if it's basic) is just daft.

Cheers
Martin
_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
martin at members.evolt.org snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985 Edinburgh,
url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk Scotland

From rob.smith at thermon.com Fri Jun 14 17:09:01 2002
From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Fri Jun 14 17:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Database Management based on NT Permissions (SQL 2k
db)
Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020709C7@smtmb.thermon.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]

Hi (Anthony),

I think I've just about got this figured out. The only way I can extract the
user name and password from the authentication methods is through Basic
Authentication. I have however, implemented SSL as a work around to ensure
encrypted communications between the browser and web server. (Side note: not
sure if you're supposed to the see the little master lock in the browser or
know when this is active)

You refer to ADO as an object that's passed to the DB, but ADO from what I
understand are the calls to the DB that you use to interact with the DB.

I really don't need the passwords to authenticate, just the user name.
Although the user is already authenticated to the web server, the user name
in this situation is only for croxx referencing to the DB like you said for
the appropriate page content.

We managed to get the NT Challenge response working/with SSL and CA. Now its
just a matter of exporting the NT Permissions DB into an SQL Server DB. Put
the finishing touches on it and we're done...for now.

(((For those of you wondering what the purpose of this string is... To
determine, on an Intranet, who gets to see what from anywhere around the
world, who isn't necessarily a part of our network but of our company, and
to do it all based upon NT Permissions)))

The content presentation can be solved by the management of the navigation
system, which is also database driven. Everything else will fall into place.
The navigation system is the link between the ADO components, the NT
permissions table, and the ASP Web Application (Intranet).

neato bandito!

Rob.Smith

"Row level" permissions are going to be up to you and your DB Design. The
DB (with NT permissions) can be set on a table and column basis, but not a
row basis.

To get the user name/password, you'll need to interogate the HTTP headers
or use one of the COM objects to get this information. Once you have it,
you can pass that to ADO when you connect to the DB.
--
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

From tgmcmillen at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jun 14 17:31:01 2002
From: tgmcmillen at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tom=20McMillen?=)
Date: Fri Jun 14 17:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] oh joy -- cursors and t-sql abound!
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <20020614223035.20641.qmail@web20008.mail.yahoo.com>

Have you tried looking in SQL BOL (Using
CONTAINSTABLE)?
There are a couple of examples there where the
CONTAINSTABLE section is built dynamically as a
string inside an EXECUTE() statement...

so you would have

STATIC READ ONLY FOR
EXECUTE('SELECT article_id, max(k.rank) rank
FROM paragraphs t1
INNER JOIN CONTAINSTABLE(paragraphs,
paragraph_text, ' + @term + ') k
ON t1.paragraph_id = k.[key]')

I've not tried it, but it might work

Tom

>
> I'm having a bit of difficulty with a particularly
> complex query I'm
> running.

> but the problem I'm
> having is with parameters that I want to pass into
> the sp itself. Take a
> look at this cursor declaration:
>
> DECLARE tnames_cursor CURSOR LOCAL FORWARD_ONLY
> STATIC READ_ONLY
> FOR
> SELECT article_id, max(k.rank) rank
> FROM paragraphs t1
> INNER JOIN CONTAINSTABLE(paragraphs,
> paragraph_text, @term) k
> ON t1.paragraph_id = k.[key]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

From tgmcmillen at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jun 14 17:33:01 2002
From: tgmcmillen at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tom=20McMillen?=)
Date: Fri Jun 14 17:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] oh joy -- cursors and t-sql abound!
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <20020614223255.38512.qmail@web20004.mail.yahoo.com>

Something else you could try is inserting the select
statement into a temporary table, and then selecting
on this for your cursor query.

Tom

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

From hassan at webtuitive.com Fri Jun 14 17:44:00 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Fri Jun 14 17:44:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Validation > pressure on software companies??
References: <429D12BD-7FE2-11D6-8E3E-000502172AD3@easyweb.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3D0A71A5.BC2E29D3@webtuitive.com>

Martin Burns wrote in response to mini-d:
>
> > Don't people chance of cars where they see is getting olders?
>
> Some. Not all. I have a car which is 1998 vintage.

Amen. I've got a 1975 Chevy half-ton pickup that I bought ten
years ago. For my less-than-daily driving habits, it's fine.

> > Don't people change TVs because they become more wider and more
> > confortables and full of features?
>
> Some, but many can still see the programmes they want to an OK standard,
> so they don't even upgrade to cable/satellite.

+1 to Martin's comment, but in addition --

some people have /multiple/ TVs of different capabilities and sizes.

A big TV with cable in the den, medium-sized TV hooked to a VCR in
the kids' bedroom, small under-cabinet model in the kitchen, maybe
a 2-inch-screen battery model with antenna to carry into the yard,
to the pool, etc.

Guaranteed they won't /all/ be letter-box digital models ...

/* metaphor stretching concluded ... :-) */
--
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com

-- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --

From pixelmech at yahoo.com Fri Jun 14 17:56:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Jun 14 17:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <20020614225541.50032.qmail@web12605.mail.yahoo.com>

I forgot to mention, view source shows the code for my new 404, but it doesn't render in the
browser. The code is the same basic page as all the rest though! In fact, its the smallest of the
pages...
--- Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com wrote:
> Was it working previously?
>
> Given what I see, I don't know why it would have stopped working.
>
> Have fun,
> Arlen
> Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department
> DNRC 224
>
> Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com
> ----------------------------------------------
> In God we trust; all others must provide data.
> ----------------------------------------------
> Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone.
> If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it.
>

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();
http://www.pixelmech.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Fri Jun 14 18:18:01 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Fri Jun 14 18:18:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
In-Reply-To: <20020614225541.50032.qmail@web12605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c213f9$9896f690$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>

I heard somewhere on this list that if a 404 page is not of a certain
size, IE will not display it. Could this be your problem?

From pixelmech at yahoo.com Fri Jun 14 18:23:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Jun 14 18:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
In-Reply-To: <000001c213f9$9896f690$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>
Message-ID: <20020614232235.70251.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>

I'll give that a shot, its pretty small though - not even one graphic!
--- Burhan Khalid wrote:
> I heard somewhere on this list that if a 404 page is not of a certain
> size, IE will not display it. Could this be your problem?
>
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();
http://www.pixelmech.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From mail at redhotsweeps.com Fri Jun 14 18:24:00 2002
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Fri Jun 14 18:24:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Perl file reading problem.....
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020614181711.00b9f4a0@redhotsweeps.com>

Hello all. I am trying to read data in from a text file and if one 2
conditions are met, increment a counter. But I am having problems. Half
of it seems to work, but the rest doesn't. All the needed variables are
set by the time it reaches this section.

Here is the file reading code.
# bob at bob.com|165|0|000| This line is how the text file looks.

open (LOGCOUNT, "crack_log.txt") || die "Can't open crack_log.txt file for
reading.";
flock (LOGCOUNT, 2); # Locks the file
$logcountfile = ; # Assigns the data from the file into an array
# bob at bob.com|165|0|000|
# email address, Play day, win/loss, guess
($emailid,$play) = split(/\|/, $logcountfile);
if(($emailid == $emailaddress) && ($play == $play_day)){
$total_plays++;
}
flock (LOGCOUNT, 8); # Unlocks the file
close(LOGCOUNT);

$emailid is set after this, but $play is not.

Does anyone see anything wrong with this code?

Thanks

Chris

From pixelmech at yahoo.com Fri Jun 14 18:27:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Jun 14 18:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
In-Reply-To: <20020614232235.70251.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020614232651.54061.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com>

Sheesh, that appears to be it. HomeSite says my page is 79kb, probably the style sheet taking up
space. I'll crunch it down.

thanks

Tom
--- Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
> I'll give that a shot, its pretty small though - not even one graphic!
> --- Burhan Khalid wrote:
> > I heard somewhere on this list that if a 404 page is not of a certain
> > size, IE will not display it. Could this be your problem?
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> =====
> var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();
> http://www.pixelmech.com/
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();
http://www.pixelmech.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Fri Jun 14 18:32:01 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Fri Jun 14 18:32:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
In-Reply-To: <20020614232651.54061.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000101c213fb$88117640$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>

Actually, its because its too *small* that IE won't display it. Not if
its too big. Bigger is better.

--Burhan

From pixelmech at yahoo.com Fri Jun 14 18:36:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Jun 14 18:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
In-Reply-To: <000101c213fb$88117640$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>
Message-ID: <20020614233505.5823.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>

Hrm. I made it smaller and it worked, I must have had a funky tag not closed or something.

Tom
--- Burhan Khalid wrote:
> Actually, its because its too *small* that IE won't display it. Not if
> its too big. Bigger is better.
>
> --Burhan
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();
http://www.pixelmech.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Fri Jun 14 18:45:01 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Fri Jun 14 18:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
In-Reply-To: <20020614233505.5823.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000401c213fd$53a32690$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>

Oh well, as long as it works, eh?
--Burhan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Tom Dell'Aringa
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 4:35 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] .htaccess
>
>
> Hrm. I made it smaller and it worked, I must have had a funky
> tag not closed or something.
>
> Tom
> --- Burhan Khalid wrote:
> > Actually, its because its too *small* that IE won't display
> it. Not if
> > its too big. Bigger is better.
> >
> > --Burhan
> >
> >
> > --
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> =====
> var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();
> http://www.pixelmech.com/
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>

From jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu Fri Jun 14 19:02:00 2002
From: jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu (Jonathon Isaac Swiderski)
Date: Fri Jun 14 19:02:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] the mystery of the disappearing image
Message-ID: <200206150001.UAA17937@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>

For some reason, the second picture on the left side of this page:
http://cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders
keeps disappearing (IE6/W2K). It appears to have something to do with this
code:

img.vlad {
width:70%;
height:70%;
}

According to the Web Design Group, width and height are valid attributes for
IMG, and percentages valid values:
http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/css/box/width.html

It should probably be noted that it also disappeared when I gave it the value in
the HTML as well.

Anyone see what I'm missing?

--
Jonathon Isaac Swiderski jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu
cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders \\ members.evolt.org/jswiders

From mail at redhotsweeps.com Fri Jun 14 19:08:01 2002
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Fri Jun 14 19:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Perl file reading problem.....
In-Reply-To: <20020614185527.J20088@cow.mooresystems.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020614181711.00b9f4a0@redhotsweeps.com>
<5.1.0.14.2.20020614181711.00b9f4a0@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020614190610.0206a870@redhotsweeps.com>

THANK YOU!!!!!!!

I assumed it was looping, but since you said that, I looked at some older
code and figured out what I needed. THANK YOU!!!!

I'll look at the EQ/== after dinner. Thanks again

Chris

At 06:55 PM 6/14/2002, you wrote:
>On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 06:22:32PM -0500, CDitty wrote:
> > Here is the file reading code.
> > # bob at bob.com|165|0|000| This line is how the text file looks.
> >
> >
> > open (LOGCOUNT, "crack_log.txt") || die "Can't open crack_log.txt file for
> > reading.";
> > flock (LOGCOUNT, 2); # Locks the file
> > $logcountfile = ; # Assigns the data from the file into an array
> > # bob at bob.com|165|0|000|
> > # email address, Play day, win/loss, guess
> > ($emailid,$play) = split(/\|/, $logcountfile);
> > if(($emailid == $emailaddress) && ($play == $play_day)){
> > $total_plays++;
> > }
> > flock (LOGCOUNT, 8); # Unlocks the file
> > close(LOGCOUNT);
> >
> >
> > $emailid is set after this, but $play is not.
> >
> > Does anyone see anything wrong with this code?
>
>I would do several things. First, I would chop() or
>chomp() the newline off that string. Second, you know
>that you're just reading in one line of that file, right?
>You're not looping over it, you know. Also, I would compare
>strings like "bob at bob.com" with other things by using "eq"
>instead of "==".
>
>I can't immediately see how any of these would cause
>the symptoms you're seeing, but it's possible.
>
>Just to make sure, you are using "-w" and "use strict;",
>aren't you?
>
>Hope it helps.
>
>-Andy
>
>--
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Fri Jun 14 19:10:01 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Fri Jun 14 19:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] the mystery of the disappearing image
In-Reply-To: <200206150001.UAA17937@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>
Message-ID: <000701c21400$e2850880$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>

Hey Jonathon :

Didn't quite see what your were getting at. (XP Pro. IE6). Image
seemed to stay there.

Is there something I'm missing?
--Burhan

From jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu Fri Jun 14 19:10:10 2002
From: jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu (Jonathon Isaac Swiderski)
Date: Fri Jun 14 19:10:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] the mystery of the disappearing image
In-Reply-To: <200206150001.UAA17937@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> (message from
Jonathon Isaac Swiderski on Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:01:51 -0400 (EDT))
References: <200206150001.UAA17937@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>
Message-ID: <200206150009.UAA28151@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>

Also on the same page (http://occs.cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders/), does anyone know
why the bullets on the list are way over next to the border, instead of obeying
the margin/padding like everyone else? any ideas how to fix this?

thanks in advance
jonathon

--
Jonathon Isaac Swiderski jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu
cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders \ members.evolt.org/jswiders

Reason number #114 to use Linux: Having nothing but a
command-line interface doesn't keep you from checking
your email.

From jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu Fri Jun 14 19:14:01 2002
From: jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu (Jonathon Isaac Swiderski)
Date: Fri Jun 14 19:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] the mystery of the disappearing image
In-Reply-To: <000701c21400$e2850880$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>
(burhankhalid@members.evolt.org)
References: <000701c21400$e2850880$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>
Message-ID: <200206150013.UAA32332@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>

There should be three pictures. The middle one seems to disappear on me (sorry
i wasn't more clear). All I see is a little bit extra space, and a little 'd'
hanging out in space below and to the left of its cousin. . .

From: "Burhan Khalid"

Didn't quite see what your were getting at. (XP Pro. IE6). Image
seemed to stay there.

Is there something I'm missing?

--
Jonathon Isaac Swiderski jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu
cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders \\ members.evolt.org/jswiders

Reason number #106 to use Linux: Because our programmers
have never been brought up on anti-trust infringement.

From Gary at star-chaser.com Fri Jun 14 19:16:00 2002
From: Gary at star-chaser.com (Gary)
Date: Fri Jun 14 19:16:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] the mystery of the disappearing image
In-Reply-To: <200206150001.UAA17937@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020614201007.00a09020@star-chaser.com>

At 08:01 PM 6/14/02 -0400, you wrote:
>For some reason, the second picture on the left side of this page:
>http://cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders
>keeps disappearing (IE6/W2K). It appears to have something to do with this
>code:
>
>img.vlad {
> width:70%;
> height:70%;
>}
>
>According to the Web Design Group, width and height are valid attributes for
>IMG, and percentages valid values:
>http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/css/box/width.html
>
>It should probably be noted that it also disappeared when I gave it the
>value in
>the HTML as well.
>
>Anyone see what I'm missing?

close your image tag.

Also IE6 is broken, remove this and see what happens.

gary

From webdad at tampabay.rr.com Fri Jun 14 19:20:01 2002
From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert)
Date: Fri Jun 14 19:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A tip is rare for me..
Message-ID:

But here goes, I have just discovered this, if this is a repeat then my
apologies, my computer has been down for almost a week.

If you intend on designing a page for print, Mozilla's print preview option
within it's printer icon option list differs from MSIE 5.5 as follows. The
print preview allows you to see what your page will print like from Mozilla
by showing a full page view minus the background color and JavaScript
generated text such as a simple date / time script, but will show / print
graphics and CSS information such as a .class {background-color: #??????;}
value for text or text links. This could be helpful in designing for
printable pages containing CSS values to be viewed by multiple browsers. The
same page in MSIE 5.5 in print preview will not show the page background
color or CSS .class {background-color: #??????;} value but will show / print
the JavaScript generated text.

Bob

From jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu Fri Jun 14 19:24:00 2002
From: jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu (Jonathon Isaac Swiderski)
Date: Fri Jun 14 19:24:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] the mystery of the disappearing image
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020614201007.00a09020@star-chaser.com> (message
from Gary on Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:15:01 -0400)
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020614201007.00a09020@star-chaser.com>
Message-ID: <200206150024.UAA32492@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>

removing the xml declaration

seems to have done it. . .thanks to gary for that one.

--
Jonathon Isaac Swiderski jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu
cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders \\ members.evolt.org/jswiders

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have
others." -Groucho Marx

From mark at cyberfuddle.com Fri Jun 14 19:30:05 2002
From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher)
Date: Fri Jun 14 19:30:05 2002
Subject: lack of upgrading (yes, *again*) (was Re: [thelist] Validation >
pressure on software companies??)
References: <000001c213c0$c6de9640$0b00a8c0@diego>
Message-ID: <3D0A8AE8.3090809@cyberfuddle.com>

mini-d wrote:
> Don't people chance of cars where they see is getting olders?

Depends on the car. There are still people who get around in Mini
Coopers, and not even because they're forced to financially - but
because they're great cars.

And consider those without much money (e.g. college/senior high or uni
students who've just got their licences and have only a few thousand $).
A friend of mine recently bought a banged-up Corolla that I swear
can't be less than 30 years old (assuming, of course, Corollas were made
in the early seventies and late sixties :o)), simply because it was
cheap (read: only browser that worked on her hardware) and did the job
(read: no pressing need to upgrade).

> Don't people change TVs because they become more wider and more
> confortables and full of features?

Again, it depends. If you've got a TV that's incredibly bulky, with a
ten-inch screen and only support for black-and-white FTA reception (and
no support for VCRs, DVD players, cable, satellite, etc.), you might
have a case for upgrading. But what if your TV is twenty years old,
large enough to see the screen from anywhere in the room, decent sound,
decent connection abilities? Why throw *it* away, just to spend heaps
on a new one?

> I guess if we force that 4% to move to the rest i guess it would be
> better. I figure a persona one day enter to a website and see almost
> everything broken, because they s***y browser can't support any
> standard, i guess we don't need to redirect the visitors to a page
> explaining they need to change... I guess if every company frustrates
> them, they will update.

Sites don't *have* to be broken in s**t (damn those corporate filters)
like Navigator 4. They don't have to look pretty, either. Stylesheets
called with '@import "foo.css";' can't be rendered by Netscape
Navigator, so the user will simply see unstyled content - which is far,
far better than most of what happens when NN4 is unleashed.

> That's just my opinion. I develop for 5.x and 6 browsers... And using
> standards as my boss let me use them.

Why don't you develop for the standards alone? To hell with 5.x/6.x
browsers!

(what do you do about Lynx, Dillo, Konqueror, Netscape 7, Links, and
other fine non-5x-6x-but-still-modern wares?)

--
Mark Gallagher
http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/

From mark at cyberfuddle.com Fri Jun 14 19:52:00 2002
From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher)
Date: Fri Jun 14 19:52:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Guru help needed, LI and P
References:
Message-ID: <3D0A8FF0.5090202@cyberfuddle.com>

Techwatcher wrote:

> I had previously assumed I could put lists inside paragraphs, and
> paragraphs inside lists. Now I know better. I can't put lists inside
> paragraphs.
>
> But can I still put paragraphs inside the LI (list item)? I have been
> doing this a lot. I also don't know yet what I might do if P within LI
> turns out to be invalid, according to the spec!
>
> The LI forces a line-feed, thus it might be a block-level element. But
> I can't find anything in this element's definition that says it can or
> cannot contain another block-level element (whereas the definition of P
> explicitly forbids this).

LI can contain other block-level elements. P cannot.

> I wish the spec would be explicit in all cases about what I can and
> cannot include within an element, or what can include an element.
> Grumble, grumble, grumble....

It is, sort of. It's just rather difficult to decipher :o).

--
Mark Gallagher
http://cybefuddle.com/infinitebabble/

From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Fri Jun 14 20:04:01 2002
From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher)
Date: Fri Jun 14 20:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: CSS inheritance in Netscape?
Message-ID:

> I have a problem here which is driving me rapidly bersqueak. On
Windows XP,
> Netscape 4.75 is behaving differently to every other browser I can
find.
>
> I'll avoid posting the whole page (A Cold Fusion script) here, but I
have a
>
inside a inside a inside a inside a
inside the
> in the . With me so far?

As it happens, today I was reviewing the HTML 4.0 spec, so I can report
that in HTML, the P element is NOT PERMITTED to enclose (nest?) any
other block-level element. DIV is a block-level element.

Hope this helps; sorry about the bad news. (-8

Cheers --
Carol Stein
techwatcher at accesswriters.com

From gnarly at punkass.com Fri Jun 14 22:58:01 2002
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Fri Jun 14 22:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] "stopped" pop-up windows: graceful exit with errors?
References: <20020614041905.91710.qmail@web10704.mail.yahoo.com> <20020614162944.35e08757.evolt@david.us-lot.org>
Message-ID: <006b01c213e2$d6343ec0$0100a8c0@olly>

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Kutcher"
Subject: Re: [thelist] "stopped" pop-up windows: graceful exit with errors?

> well, please go here (http://www.boyburnsbarn.com/popup_web.html) and tell
> me if that doesn't spawn two daughter windows when you click on "click me"

I have Opera set to refuse popup windows. And nothing popped up :-)

Olly.

From momartin at forpaws.org Fri Jun 14 23:06:01 2002
From: momartin at forpaws.org (Mo Martin)
Date: Fri Jun 14 23:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Need advice for acquiring a .biz domain
Message-ID:

When the .biz domains became available, I made an "IP claim." Several
others also placed IP claims, understandable since we are not the
only company with this name. We received the IP claim and a few
others did as well. We were third in line.

Someone else sought to acquire the name (seems to be a cybersquatter)
and the IP claim processes began. We were third in the priority queue
and finally we bubbled up to the top so we have a limited time to
make our claim. The bureaucracy of this system is pretty awful but
basically, I had to choose an arbitrator who represents us in the
claim. They charge $1100 to arbitrate it.

We do have IP rights to this name so I am guessing we would prevail
but do not know for sure and do not know if there will be additional
costs as the process moves on.

The domain registrar (squatter, I think) who applied for the name has
offered to sell it to us for the price we would pay the arbitration
company.

My question: Should I buy it from the squatters? Will that end it or
can someone else then move in and challenge my ownership? Should I
proceed through the arbitration process?

Will the arbitration process likely give us what we want, or is this
one of those situations where they will then need to do some
additional step and want more money? Anyone been this route?

We do want the name. I don't think it is worth it but company
managers do and my job is to get it, so I am trying to learn the
simplest way to secure it.

From erick_papadakis at yahoo.com Fri Jun 14 23:08:01 2002
From: erick_papadakis at yahoo.com (Erick Papadakis)
Date: Fri Jun 14 23:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] "stopped" pop-up windows: graceful exit with errors?
Message-ID: <20020615040720.15077.qmail@web10702.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi david,

> well, please go here
> http://www.boyburnsbarn.com/popup_web.html and
> tell me if that doesn't spawn two daughter
> windows when you click on
> "click me"

i see a js error message. my pop up stopper works i
guess. the error message is:

The callee (server [not server application]) is not
available and disappeared; all connections are
invalid. The call did not execute.

i use popstop pro.

cheers/erick

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Fri Jun 14 23:22:01 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Fri Jun 14 23:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Need advice for acquiring a .biz domain
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <000201c21424$2fed3c50$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>

I am not a lawyer, and have never been in a situation like yours, BUT --
everytime a situation has gone to arbitration, it generally increases
the time to resolution astronomically. Not to mention cost.

My short answer is, if you really want the name quickly, give in and pay
for it. You can choose to fight for it, but you never know how long that
will take.

--Burhan

From hblair at hotfootmail.com Fri Jun 14 23:29:01 2002
From: hblair at hotfootmail.com (Hugh Blair)
Date: Fri Jun 14 23:29:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Need advice for acquiring a .biz domain
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:

> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Mo Martin
>
> My question: Should I buy it from the squatters? Will that end it or
> can someone else then move in and challenge my ownership? Should I
> proceed through the arbitration process?
>
> Will the arbitration process likely give us what we want, or is this
> one of those situations where they will then need to do some
> additional step and want more money? Anyone been this route?

1 - If the cost to get the domain is the same - direct or arbitration -
go with arbitration. That you can trust. This person, ????? It will
take longer, but it's final. But if you can trust this person, and
if you don't think there are other claimants in the wings that might
challenge you, then go direct. It's faster.

2 - Unless this other person can present a better argument to the
arbitration board than you, then that's a gamble. Arbitration is
only overruled by a court case. Arbitration should be a 1-time
cost, nothing hidden. They instruct the registrar to turn the
domain name over to you. By the agreements the registrars live
with, they *will* give you the name if the board rules that way.

Keep us updated. I'd like to hear how it turns out.

--
Hugh

From gnarly at punkass.com Sat Jun 15 00:20:01 2002
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Sat Jun 15 00:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Problem with JRUN and Server Side Includes
References: <3D0A6521.797EC8A7@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <02df01c213fd$bf6d9a40$0100a8c0@olly>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hassan Schroeder"
Subject: Re: [thelist] Problem with JRUN and Server Side Includes

> There's no need to rename any page. The JSP pages use JSP-syntax
> includes rather than SSI-syntax includes. That's it.
>
> Not sure why this seems "unstreamlined" ... :-)

I think they want to use the same template in both the SHTML and JSP pages.

Somethng just occurred to me - JRUN converts normal SSIs into comments, and
ignores them, right? What happens if you put the JSP code into the non JSP
page? If its ignored, you could just have both in the template.

Olly.

From mm80xx at optushome.com.au Sat Jun 15 01:09:00 2002
From: mm80xx at optushome.com.au (Minh Tran)
Date: Sat Jun 15 01:09:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] serial connection with vb
References: <000201c21424$2fed3c50$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>
Message-ID: <001001c21433$1b4835c0$c61531d2@nsw.optushome.com.au>

Hi guys i'm having trouble with a visual basic serial port problem.....

This is part of the code:
Private Sub MSComm1_OnComm()
Dim str As String
Dim sMessage As String
Select Case MSComm1.CommEvent
' Event messages.
Case comEvReceive
str = MSComm1.Input
sMessage = "Event has been received" & str

okies the problem is, when an incoming comEvReceive has been detected it
will cause an error when i try to save it as a str. There is no way i can
access it...............
why? i dont' know....this code works for another device i have connected it
to but the one that i want to work doesnt' work.
if i remove the str = mscomm1.input
then the code will work........ it will notify me that a messsage is
received........why???????????????????????????????/
the error is "error 8020Error reading comm device"

anyone with visual basic, serial port skills please answer

From karen at miinx.com.au Sat Jun 15 02:37:00 2002
From: karen at miinx.com.au (Karen J. Bowen)
Date: Sat Jun 15 02:37:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] js form validation problem - still not working
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020613093902.00ae82a0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3D0AEEAE.9080606@miinx.com.au>

Thanks Jeff & Howard, tried both your solutions but it's still not working.

Here's one of the pages: http://www.cellaredportfolio.com.au/winestock.asp

The JS for this page is slightly different but with the same problem:
http://www.cellaredportfolio.com.au/js/nl.js

You'll see that when you enter a non-integer into the "Number Required"
field, the alert box appears but close it and the focus goes to the
_next_ field.. even though Mozilla will still select the correct field.

I'm going batty with this - anyone??

Also, IE is throwing an error on line 606 - ")" required.. whatever
program I've got linked to debug this isn't working though, so I can't
get more info & I'm not sure what it's talking about (it's a dynamic
page so hard to guess where, nor can I find it). If someone could give
me the line of code (or show me the missing paren!) would be much
appreciated as well.

Thanks all,
Karen

Howard Cheng wrote:
> Don't forget also: onchange="return chkNum(this)"
>

From mm80xx at optushome.com.au Sat Jun 15 02:56:01 2002
From: mm80xx at optushome.com.au (Minh Tran)
Date: Sat Jun 15 02:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] MSCOMM1.input problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
References:
Message-ID: <001401c21431$aa499fe0$c61531d2@nsw.optushome.com.au>

Hi guys i'm having trouble with a visual basic serial port problem.....

This is part of the code:
Private Sub MSComm1_OnComm()
Dim str As String
Dim sMessage As String
Select Case MSComm1.CommEvent
' Event messages.
Case comEvReceive
str = MSComm1.Input
sMessage = "Event has been received" & str

okies the problem is, when an incoming comEvReceive has been detected it
will cause an error when i try to save it as a str. There is no way i can
access it...............
why? i dont' know....this code works for another device i have connected it
to but the one that i want to work doesnt' work.
if i remove the str = mscomm1.input
then the code will work........ it will notify me that a messsage is
received........why???????????????????????????????/
the error is "error 8020Error reading comm device"

anyone with visual basic, serial port skills please answer

From adrian at aussiebidder.com Sat Jun 15 02:56:11 2002
From: adrian at aussiebidder.com (Adrian Fischer)
Date: Sat Jun 15 02:56:11 2002
Subject: [thelist] Shared email clients and privacy/security
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:

Hi All,

Were I work I have been delegated the IT wizard. Purely because they know
less than me not because I know what I'm doing.

We have an ADSL connection on one pc and that is then shared with about 4
others. All PC's are inter connected (but not a proper network as such).
That is, there is no server, we just use NIC's to talk pc to pc.

The company has 1 email account but can have a gazillion email addresses. I
can filter the emails to go to folders under outlook 2000 but anyone can
read any other folder. I intend to leave the messages on the hosts server
so that all have access to mail. Otherwise the first to read the mail gets
it all on their machine. (Am I making sense here?)

We don't have a mail server. I need every one to be able to read mail
directed at them without everyone else being able to view other peoples
folders.

How do I achieve this (very cheaply)?

Thanks

Adrian Fischer
http://aussiebidder.com

From giles at elementdesign.fsnet.co.uk Sat Jun 15 02:56:26 2002
From: giles at elementdesign.fsnet.co.uk (Michael CAREY)
Date: Sat Jun 15 02:56:26 2002
Subject: [thelist] Cheapest .com domain name
Message-ID: <001001c21440$e4bf4d00$b04386d9@mlcuptn>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
where is the cheapest place to purchase a .com domain name with just url forwarding?

please
quick help appreciated
thank you

g
--

From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk Sat Jun 15 03:05:01 2002
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Sat Jun 15 03:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Cheapest .com domain name
In-Reply-To: <001001c21440$e4bf4d00$b04386d9@mlcuptn>
Message-ID:

> where is the cheapest place to purchase a .com domain name with
> just url forwarding?
>
> please
> quick help appreciated

http://www.123-reg.co.uk

Cheap by UK standards and excellent service/management tools

HTH

From webmaster at menouno.com Sat Jun 15 03:44:00 2002
From: webmaster at menouno.com (Massimo Mezzini)
Date: Sat Jun 15 03:44:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Shared email clients and privacy/security
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <3D0B1A30.29906.F5EF4@localhost>

On 15 Jun 2002 at 17:39, Adrian Fischer wrote:

[...]

> We have an ADSL connection on one pc and that is then shared with
> about 4 others. All PC's are inter connected (but not a proper
> network as such). That is, there is no server, we just use NIC's to
> talk pc to pc.

> The company has 1 email account but can have a gazillion email
> addresses. [...]

[...]

> We don't have a mail server. I need every one to be able to read mail
> directed at them without everyone else being able to view other
> peoples folders.

> How do I achieve this (very cheaply)?

what about for free?
A Pegasus Mail + Mercury/32 setup would serve you well and let you do much
more of what you need right now. You will have to do some reading and testing
though.

Start from

ciao

Massimo

From dbaxo at ihug.co.nz Sat Jun 15 04:10:01 2002
From: dbaxo at ihug.co.nz (Duncan O'Neill)
Date: Sat Jun 15 04:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DHTML help please
Message-ID: <3D0B0487.8010409@ihug.co.nz>

Hi all,

I posted this question a few days ago, but no replies,
so I'll try re-stating it.

I have a page where I want to dynamically generate a
table using DOM methods. (
document.createElement("table")
document.createElement("tbody")
etc.

The individual cell contents are links written using
cell.innerHTML with calls to a javascript function.

My problem is the page layout. On a PC, everything is
fine, but on a Mac extra space is being added both
vertically and horizontally, making the table way too
wide, and wrecking the layout. I've tried everything,
including these statements;

cell.style.padding = 0 + "px";
thelink.style.padding = 0 + "px";
myTable.style.width = 200 + "px";

but they're being steadfastly ignored on Mac/ IE5 & N6.

Any ideas or suggestions would be very much appreciated.

tia,

=====================================================
Duncan O'Neill
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dbaxo/urban_legend.htm
=====================================================

From luminosity at members.evolt.org Sat Jun 15 05:23:00 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Sat Jun 15 05:23:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess list (was: .htaccess)
In-Reply-To: <000401c213fd$53a32690$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>
References: <000401c213fd$53a32690$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>
Message-ID: <1047.139.130.216.191.1024136577.squirrel@members.evolt.org>

While we're talking about .htaccess. Is there some way in a Files list to
list multiple files instead of having to make one for every page set up the
same way?

Thanks,
Lach
--------------------------------------
http://members.evolt.org/luminosity/
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
--------------------------------------

From evolt at david.us-lot.org Sat Jun 15 05:33:01 2002
From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward)
Date: Sat Jun 15 05:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] "stopped" pop-up windows: graceful exit with errors?
In-Reply-To:
References: <20020614041905.91710.qmail@web10704.mail.yahoo.com>

<20020614162944.35e08757.evolt@david.us-lot.org>

Message-ID: <20020615113403.613cae72.evolt@david.us-lot.org>

On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 13:13:02 -0400
"David Kutcher" wrote:

>
> > You can try... but it works by completely disabling window.open()
> > (which is why link is about the only thing that will work.
>
> well, please go here (http://www.boyburnsbarn.com/popup_web.html)
> and tell me if that doesn't spawn two daughter windows when you
> click on "click me"

that doesn't spawn two daughter windows when you click on "click me"

--
David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/
HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV.

From martin at easyweb.co.uk Sat Jun 15 05:37:01 2002
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns)
Date: Sat Jun 15 05:37:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Shared email clients and privacy/security
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:

On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 08:39 am, Adrian Fischer wrote:

> The company has 1 email account but can have a gazillion email
> addresses. I
> can filter the emails to go to folders under outlook 2000 but anyone can
> read any other folder. I intend to leave the messages on the hosts
> server
> so that all have access to mail. Otherwise the first to read the mail
> gets
> it all on their machine. (Am I making sense here?)
>
> We don't have a mail server. I need every one to be able to read mail
> directed at them without everyone else being able to view other peoples
> folders.

Here's one option which may require the central machine to be a Unix-y
one (certainly this would work on a *nix box (including MacOSX) - I
don't know about Windows)

Set up the central machine as having real user accounts for everyone and
a POP box each

Collect the mail from the external mail server using fetchmail
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/fetchmail/
Match incoming mail addresses to users using Procmail
http://www.procmail.org/
(you can spambounce with Procmail while you're at it -
http://www.spambouncer.org/ )
and deliver the mail to all the appropriate POP boxes.

Each user can then connect with their email client to their own POPbox
as if you've got however many real external email accounts.

Cheers
Martin
_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
martin at members.evolt.org snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985 Edinburgh,
url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk Scotland

From martin at takingitglobal.org Sat Jun 15 05:41:01 2002
From: martin at takingitglobal.org (Martin Kuplens-Ewart)
Date: Sat Jun 15 05:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Cheapest .com domain name
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <000101c21459$14e8a130$6401a8c0@martinlaptop>

> > where is the cheapest place to purchase a .com domain name
> with just
> > url forwarding?

http://www.godaddy.com does URL forwarding, etc... US$8.95/yr
[increments down if you're buying multi-yr...

-m

From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com Sat Jun 15 06:00:00 2002
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Sat Jun 15 06:00:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] DHTML help please
Message-ID:

>I posted this question a few days ago, but no replies,
>so I'll try re-stating it.
>
>I have a page where I want to dynamically generate a
>table using DOM methods. (
>document.createElement("table")
>document.createElement("tbody")
>etc.
>
>The individual cell contents are links written using
>cell.innerHTML with calls to a javascript function.
>
>My problem is the page layout. On a PC, everything is
>fine, but on a Mac extra space is being added both
>vertically and horizontally, making the table way too
>wide, and wrecking the layout. I've tried everything,
>including these statements;
>
>cell.style.padding = 0 + "px";
>thelink.style.padding = 0 + "px";
>myTable.style.width = 200 + "px";
>
>but they're being steadfastly ignored on Mac/ IE5 & N6.

IE5.0 or 5.1? Just the other day I did roughly the same as you and it turned
out that setting the innerHTML of a TD makes 5.0 on OS 9 behave very weirdly
(the table came somewhere else on the page than I wanted, it was not exactly
the same as your problem). On 5.1 on OS X it worked perfectly.

I saw your earlier question but couldn't answer it because you didn't give a
URL to the page.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From drnoble at drnoble.co.uk Sat Jun 15 06:48:03 2002
From: drnoble at drnoble.co.uk (Donald Noble)
Date: Sat Jun 15 06:48:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re:"stopped" pop-up windows: graceful exit with errors?
In-Reply-To: <20020614235923.1868AC186@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000001c2145a$f2a9ed70$c800a8c0@scotland>

>well, please go here (http://www.boyburnsbarn.com/popup_web.html) and
tell
>me if that doesn't spawn two daughter windows when you click on "click
me"
>
>David

I have Panicware's Pop-up stopper installed, no new windows appear on
your site unless I override the pop-up stopper - even when it's NOT on
aggressive mode.

Cheers :Donald
--
http://www.AccessibleComputers.co.uk
Hardware, Software & Custom built PC Systems

From Evolt at ZName.com Sat Jun 15 07:19:01 2002
From: Evolt at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Evolt))
Date: Sat Jun 15 07:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Cheapest .com domain name
In-Reply-To: <000101c21459$14e8a130$6401a8c0@martinlaptop>
Message-ID:

http://www.NameCheap.com
$8.88 per year
free URL forwarding
free email forwarding
dns service if desired
direct web control of all settings

same price for .org, .net., .us, .info, etc.

I use them exclusively and am very satisfied

James S. Huggins

...

From simon at incutio.com Sat Jun 15 07:41:01 2002
From: simon at incutio.com (Simon Willison)
Date: Sat Jun 15 07:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] "Microsoft URL Control" showing up in user-agent logs ?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020615133927.01f56ec0@mail.incutio.com>

I've had the following user agent crop up in my logs a few times:

Microsoft URL Control - 5.01.4319

Anyone know what it is?

Cheers,

Simon Willison
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~cs1spw/blog/

From r937 at interlog.com Sat Jun 15 08:20:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sat Jun 15 08:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] "Microsoft URL Control" showing up in user-agent logs ?
Message-ID: <01c2146e$da6f98e0$f9eb059a@rudy>

> Microsoft URL Control - 5.01.4319

hi simon

according to http://www.psychedelix.com/agents.html it's a spambot looking
for formmail components

rudy

From momartin at forpaws.org Sat Jun 15 08:43:01 2002
From: momartin at forpaws.org (Mo Martin)
Date: Sat Jun 15 08:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Looking for bad words
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020615133927.01f56ec0@mail.incutio.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020615133927.01f56ec0@mail.incutio.com>
Message-ID:

This is a weird one. Am setting up a web page that posts what people
enter and want to do basic screening for naughty words. I know it can
be defeated easily and that's not a concern. But I need a reasonably
comprehensive list of dirty words. Anyone know of any?

From webmaster at menouno.com Sat Jun 15 09:41:00 2002
From: webmaster at menouno.com (Massimo Mezzini)
Date: Sat Jun 15 09:41:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] "Microsoft URL Control" showing up in user-agent logs ?
In-Reply-To: <01c2146e$da6f98e0$f9eb059a@rudy>
Message-ID: <3D0B6E57.12787.158146E@localhost>

On 15 Jun 2002 at 9:16, rudy wrote about Re: [thelist] "Microsoft URL Control:

> > Microsoft URL Control - 5.01.4319

> according to http://www.psychedelix.com/agents.html it's a spambot
> looking for formmail components

it sure is some kind of bot but looking for formail doesn't seem its main task. Out of
436 instances on one of my logs for May, Microsoft URL Control only 5 times
requested formail.pl or .cgi.

All the other requests are for normal pages, even CSS files. No regular pattern here.

ciao

Massimo

From thelist at web-artel.net Sat Jun 15 09:47:01 2002
From: thelist at web-artel.net (Dmytro Borovsky)
Date: Sat Jun 15 09:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Looking for bad words
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020615133927.01f56ec0@mail.incutio.com>
Message-ID: <004901c2147b$7a956820$0100a8c0@DMYTROB>

> Am setting up a web page that posts what people
> enter and want to do basic screening for naughty words. I know it can
> be defeated easily and that's not a concern. But I need a reasonably
> comprehensive list of dirty words. Anyone know of any?

Many "dirty" words also have a "clean" meaning, so screening could just
disallow your visitors to post their thought. I. e., someone posts "cock and
pussy"; and no programme could guess if the poster talked about pets or sex,
you see?

And something like "fucl<" could be a piece of computer code or something
offensive. How could a script differentiate it?

So it's better to require user registration, then you could monitor the
posts and manually block rude posters.

Best regards.
Dmytro Borovsky.
Web Studio http://www.web-artel.net/

From mark at cyberfuddle.com Sat Jun 15 10:05:01 2002
From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher)
Date: Sat Jun 15 10:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Validation > pressure on software companies??
References: <429D12BD-7FE2-11D6-8E3E-000502172AD3@easyweb.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3D0B5801.8080009@cyberfuddle.com>

Martin Burns wrote:
>
> On Friday, June 14, 2002, at 05:30 pm, mini-d wrote:
>
>> Don't people chance of cars where they see is getting olders?
>
> Some. Not all. I have a car which is 1998 vintage.

Yeah, that was a great year for cars.

Hee - "what do you want with that '98 Holden Commodore? It's four years
out of date!"

Damn, now I owe a tip. Well, *another* tip anyway.

If you've got an article or whatever that you believe is worth stealing,
it won't hurt to periodically check to see if anyone agrees.

Copy and paste a portion of your text into a search engine (meta search
engines like Dogpile are especially handy), and if it pops up with sites
other than your own, have a quick read of them - they've probably ripped
you off wholesale.

Mozilla even allows you to select text, right-click, and choose "search
for [selected text]".

--
Mark Gallagher
http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/

From judah at wiredotter.com Sat Jun 15 10:52:01 2002
From: judah at wiredotter.com (Judah McAuley)
Date: Sat Jun 15 10:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Validation > pressure on software companies??
References: <429D12BD-7FE2-11D6-8E3E-000502172AD3@easyweb.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3D0B6291.7020806@wiredotter.com>

Martin Burns wrote:

> The day that I see signs on the road refusing entry to cars over a few
> years old (and drivers happily complying) is the day I expect that to be
> accepted by most users.

I don't know about the rules of the UK, but in my part of the US we
don't allow all sorts of cars on the road. Age isn't the criteria. The
criteria is standards compliance (sound familiar?). Your car has to
have certain safety features like seat belts, certain impact-rated
bumpers, etc. And it also has to meet environmental standards for fuel
usage, exhaust emmissions, etc. And they have to have an electronically
limited speed capability. There are many cars made in Europe and
elsewhere that aren't allowed to be sold here even if they are brand new.

Subaru, for instance, wouldn't sell the WRX in the US for several years
because they didn't feel that is was worth the effort to try and make a
version that was clean enough and had the right safety features to make
it worthwhile to sell here. But after enough market pressure from
people on this side of the pond Subaru gave in and started making a
"compatible" version. It's now one of their best selling vehicles over
here and has been making great inroads into the market.

I think that there is a moral in there somewhere for browser
manufacturers. And yes, I think that CSS support is a "safety issue".
Using tables and font tags for layout increases the likelyhood of sudden
explosion like a Chevy Nova being hit from behind.

Enough with the car metaphors then. Off to review the England vs.
Denmark match.

Judah

From mail at jasoncartwright.com Sat Jun 15 11:00:01 2002
From: mail at jasoncartwright.com (Jason Cartwright)
Date: Sat Jun 15 11:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Looking for bad words
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <004901c21477$5572b600$0100a8c0@jason>

This was mentioned the other month -

http://makeashorterlink.com/?X39C25011

No list was found, but heres a summary of the conversation -

* A banned words like might block posts mentioning works like Scunthorpe
(sp?)
* Blank out bad words with *'s rather than deleting them
* Use the banned words to flag comments rather than delete them
* Have a 'report comment' tool for users to flag comments for admin's
attention

Jason
www.jasoncartwright.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Mo Martin
> Sent: 15 June 2002 14:43
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Looking for bad words
>
>
> This is a weird one. Am setting up a web page that posts what
> people enter and want to do basic screening for naughty
> words. I know it can be defeated easily and that's not a
> concern. But I need a reasonably comprehensive list of dirty
> words. Anyone know of any?
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

From cache at dowebscentral.com Sat Jun 15 11:09:01 2002
From: cache at dowebscentral.com (Keith)
Date: Sat Jun 15 11:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Perl file reading problem.....
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020614181711.00b9f4a0@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020615094943.00b634c8@www.dowebscentral.com>

At 06:22 PM Friday 6/14/2002, CDitty wrote:
>Hello all. I am trying to read data in from a text file and if one 2
>conditions are met, increment a counter. But I am having problems. Half
>of it seems to work, but the rest doesn't. All the needed variables are
>set by the time it reaches this section.
>
>Here is the file reading code.
># bob at bob.com|165|0|000| This line is how the text file looks.
>
>
>open (LOGCOUNT, "crack_log.txt") || die "Can't open crack_log.txt file for
>reading.";
>flock (LOGCOUNT, 2); # Locks the file
>$logcountfile = ; # Assigns the data from the file into an array
> # bob at bob.com|165|0|000|
> # email address, Play day, win/loss, guess
> ($emailid,$play) = split(/\|/, $logcountfile);
> if(($emailid == $emailaddress) && ($play == $play_day)){
> $total_plays++;
> }
>flock (LOGCOUNT, 8); # Unlocks the file
>close(LOGCOUNT);
>

3 problems
1) need to loop through the file
2) using numeric (==) comparison instead of string comparison (eq)
3) end loop (assuming large file)

open (LOGCOUNT, "crack_log.txt") || die "Can't open crack_log.txt file for
reading.";
lock (LOGCOUNT, 2); # Locks the file
while(){
chomp();
($emailid,$play) = split(/\|/);
if(emailid eq $emailaddress){
if($play eq $play_day){
$total_plays++;
}
last;
}
}
flock (LOGCOUNT, 8); # Unlocks the file
close(LOGCOUNT);

Keith
====================
cache at dowebscentral.com

From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 15 11:19:01 2002
From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr)
Date: Sat Jun 15 11:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Looking for bad words
In-Reply-To: <004901c21477$5572b600$0100a8c0@jason>
Message-ID: <000001c21488$44191f00$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>

I can't remember is this "solution" came up. If you've got Dreamweaver,
there's an extension on the exchange
http://www.macromedia.com/exchange/dreamweaver that might be of some use
(I haven't tried it).

Go to "security" on the "browse extensions" dropdown and it should take
you a "WebAssist Swearing Validation" extension.

It comes with a list of naughty words

Hope this helps

Francis

From donald at drnoble.co.uk Sat Jun 15 11:33:01 2002
From: donald at drnoble.co.uk (Donald Noble)
Date: Sat Jun 15 11:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re:"stopped" pop-up windows: graceful exit with errors?
Message-ID: <000301c2148a$4eebe500$c800a8c0@scotland>

>well, please go here (http://www.boyburnsbarn.com/popup_web.html) and
tell
>me if that doesn't spawn two daughter windows when you click on "click
me"
>
>David

I have Panicware's Pop-up stopper installed, no new windows appear on
your site unless I override the pop-up stopper - even when it's NOT on
aggressive mode.

Cheers :Donald
--
http://www.AccessibleComputers.co.uk
Hardware, Software & Custom built PC Systems

From bharoche at usa.net Sat Jun 15 11:38:01 2002
From: bharoche at usa.net (Bob Haroche)
Date: Sat Jun 15 11:38:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Shared email clients and privacy/security
References: <3D0B1A30.29906.F5EF4@localhost>
Message-ID: <004201c2148a$eb826970$9865fea9@Laptop>

> what about for free?
> A Pegasus Mail + Mercury/32 setup would serve you well and let you do much
> more of what you need right now. You will have to do some reading and
testing
> though.

I second that.

I just set up Mercury pop/smtp server last night and am impressed with its
features and security. Am I wrong though that you need to run your own dns
server (or at least have control over your dns addresses) in order to
receive email addressed to your domain? In any event I am and am using the
inexpensive windows Simple DNS Plus for that.

Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t S o l u t i o n s
http://www.OnPointSolutions.com

From mail at jasoncartwright.com Sat Jun 15 12:35:04 2002
From: mail at jasoncartwright.com (Jason Cartwright)
Date: Sat Jun 15 12:35:04 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP Response.redirect
Message-ID: <005301c2148d$5431a880$0100a8c0@jason>

Hi all,

I believe that response.redirect in ASP uses a 302 (Moved Temporarily)
to redirect the user to a location.

What difference does a 301 (Moved Permanently) do? I'm changing a site's
URLs permanently so I guess that would be preferable in this case. How
do I get the ASP to return a 301?

Thanks!
Jason Cartwright
www.jasoncartwright.com

From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Sat Jun 15 13:11:00 2002
From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher)
Date: Sat Jun 15 13:11:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] DHTML help please
Message-ID:

> > I have a page where I want to dynamically generate a
> table using DOM methods. (
> document.createElement("table")
> document.createElement("tbody")
> etc.
>
> The individual cell contents are links written using
> cell.innerHTML with calls to a javascript function.
>
> My problem is the page layout. On a PC, everything is
> fine, but on a Mac extra space is being added both
> vertically and horizontally, making the table way too
> wide, and wrecking the layout. I've tried everything,
> including these statements;
>
> cell.style.padding = 0 + "px";
> thelink.style.padding = 0 + "px";
> myTable.style.width = 200 + "px";

You're aware that the stuff surrounding content is padding then border
then margin, right? You have set border and margin to 0 also, or
collapsed them, or something?

Cheers
techwatcher (Carol Stein)

From martin at easyweb.co.uk Sat Jun 15 13:24:01 2002
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns)
Date: Sat Jun 15 13:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Validation > pressure on software companies??
In-Reply-To: <3D0B6291.7020806@wiredotter.com>
Message-ID: <07C744FC-808D-11D6-9CD3-000502172AD3@easyweb.co.uk>

On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 04:51 pm, Judah McAuley wrote:

> Martin Burns wrote:
>
>> The day that I see signs on the road refusing entry to cars over a few
>> years old (and drivers happily complying) is the day I expect that to
>> be
>> accepted by most users.
>
> I don't know about the rules of the UK, but in my part of the US we
> don't allow all sorts of cars on the road. Age isn't the criteria. The
> criteria is standards compliance (sound familiar?). Your car has to
> have certain safety features like seat belts, certain impact-rated
> bumpers, etc. And it also has to meet environmental standards for fuel
> usage, exhaust emmissions, etc.

Yep same here. There *is* an age related criterion in the UK where if
your car is over 2 years old, it has to undergo testing to ensure that
it hasn't deteriorated into unsafeness. However, that's a wear and tear
thing, not a design thing. If your bodywork has rusted into tissuepaper,
it fails and you can't get your next road license without a pass
certificate.

Cheers
Martin
_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
martin at members.evolt.org snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985 Edinburgh,
url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk Scotland

From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Sat Jun 15 13:27:01 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Sat Jun 15 13:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] js form validation problem - still not working
In-Reply-To: <3D0AEEAE.9080606@miinx.com.au>
Message-ID: <000401c2149a$33c6f070$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>

Hey Karen :

I liked your site. Good presentation, IMO. Thought I'd help you
out with your problem. Found some interesting things :

1. If you hit enter, your get the correct focus(), but the form sumbits!
2. If you click on the next textbox, then the focus is on /that/ field,
and not the previous one (like you'd wanted).
3. On my box (IE 6 XP Pro), it showed the missing ) error only once.
When I hit refresh, the error didn't show up. However, I think your
error is because you have two (') in your field. Try escaping one of
them, or using the double-quote trick.

What you've got :
onchange="chkStockNum(this, 8, '1998 Kay's Amery Block 6 Shiraz')"

Option 1 :
onchange="chkStockNum(this, 8, '1998 Kay\'s Amery Block 6 Shiraz')"

Option 2 :
onchange='chkStockNum(this, 8, "1998 Kay's Amery Block 6 Shiraz")'
I /think/ this will work (haven't messed with js for a while).

I'll see if I can figure out your focus() thing.
hth,
Burhan

From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Sat Jun 15 13:38:02 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Sat Jun 15 13:38:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] js form validation problem - still not working
In-Reply-To: <3D0AEEAE.9080606@miinx.com.au>
Message-ID: <000501c2149b$bb6fade0$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>

Karen :

Did you try flipping the select() and focus()? Having it set
focus first, and then select()?

--Burhan

From rob.smith at thermon.com Sat Jun 15 15:35:01 2002
From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Sat Jun 15 15:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Transversing a RecordSet from Multiple Tables
Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020709C8@smtmb.thermon.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]

Hi list,

I've got a search across multiple tables for specific records and I'm
getting an Object Required " response back from the browser. My guess is
that the object I'm referencing wasn't returned in the RecordSet. For
example:

if NOT states.EOF then
states.movefirst
if SBU.SBUName <> NULL then <------------------<<<
while (SBU.SBUName <> NULL OR NOT states.EOF)
response.write("" & SBU.SBUName & "
" & vbCLRF)
states.movenext
wend
end if
end if

The arrow points to the line where I'm getting the Object Required Error. Is
there a way I can detect if the object, SBU.SBUName, even exists in the
RecordSet? As you can see, I'm just try to see if there is anything in it,
if so, then write something, if not skip it.

Any suggestions,

Rob.Smith

From wade_lists at runstrong.com Sat Jun 15 16:35:00 2002
From: wade_lists at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong)
Date: Sat Jun 15 16:35:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Transversing a RecordSet from Multiple Tables
In-Reply-To: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020709C8@smtmb.thermon.com>
Message-ID:

on 6/15/02 1:37 PM, Rob Smith at rob.smith at thermon.com wrote:
> I've got a search across multiple tables for specific records and I'm
> getting an Object Required " response back from the browser. My guess is
> that the object I'm referencing wasn't returned in the RecordSet. For
> example:
>
> if NOT states.EOF then
> states.movefirst
> if SBU.SBUName <> NULL then <------------------<<<
> while (SBU.SBUName <> NULL OR NOT states.EOF)
> response.write("" & SBU.SBUName & "
" & vbCLRF)
> states.movenext
> wend
> end if
> end if
>

Where is the SBU object instantiated, and how are its properties populated?

Wade

Do you create a recordset for your database query results and then .MoveNext
and .Loop? Stop that! It's slow and resource-intensive. Instead, use
.GetRows - it's faster, (http://www.learnasp.com/learn/speedtablesall.asp)
and the syntax is quite easy
(http://www.learnasp.com/advice/whygetrows.asp).

From lwkraemer at directvinternet.com Sat Jun 15 17:10:01 2002
From: lwkraemer at directvinternet.com (lon.kraemer)
Date: Sat Jun 15 17:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Transversing a RecordSet from Multiple Tables
References: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020709C8@smtmb.thermon.com>
Message-ID: <001101c214b8$dde9a4d0$0201a8c0@yoda>

> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]

Please send plain text only to the list.

> Hi list,
>
> I've got a search across multiple tables for specific records and I'm
> getting an Object Required " response back from the browser. My guess is
> that the object I'm referencing wasn't returned in the RecordSet. For
> example:
>
> if NOT states.EOF then
> states.movefirst
> if SBU.SBUName <> NULL then <------------------<<<
> while (SBU.SBUName <> NULL OR NOT states.EOF)
> response.write("" & SBU.SBUName & "
" & vbCLRF)
> states.movenext
> wend
> end if
> end if
>
> The arrow points to the line where I'm getting the Object Required Error. Is
> there a way I can detect if the object, SBU.SBUName, even exists in the
> RecordSet? As you can see, I'm just try to see if there is anything in it,
> if so, then write something, if not skip it.

You didn't show us how you set up your connection/recordset, so assumption...
I assume SBU.SBUName is a field you queried for and 'states' is the recordset.
The object needed is the recordset object - 'states'.
To show the field you want states("SBU.SBUName") or better
states.fields.item("SBU.SBUName").value

--
Lon Kraemer
-----------------------------------------

From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Sat Jun 15 17:51:01 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Sat Jun 15 17:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Funny Behavior on icq.com
Message-ID: <000001c214bf$0ee6c8f0$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>

Hello All :

Thought I'd share this. I was browsing ICQ's site looking for an
old friend. I submitted a query, which resulted in an error page, on
which seems like random pictures of people are popping up.

Does anyone know about this? Is this someone messing with ICQ, a
feature, a bug on my side, or what? Let me know if you guys can
replicate it. Just try a search @ www.icq.com

Regards,
Burhan

From mwarden at mattwarden.com Sat Jun 15 18:13:00 2002
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Sat Jun 15 18:13:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP Response.redirect
In-Reply-To: <005301c2148d$5431a880$0100a8c0@jason>
Message-ID:

On Jun 15, Jason Cartwright had something to say about [thelist] ASP...

>Hi all,
>
>I believe that response.redirect in ASP uses a 302 (Moved Temporarily)
>to redirect the user to a location.
>
>What difference does a 301 (Moved Permanently) do?

It's just a different header. Clients may or may not act on it
differently. in some cases, clients like search engine spiders will update
their old links

>I'm changing a site's
>URLs permanently so I guess that would be preferable in this case. How
>do I get the ASP to return a 301?

you could try setting a Status header:

response.addheader "Status", "301"
response.addheader "Location", "http://absolute/url/to/new/file.asp"

but I'm not sure that ASP has access to the given status code other than
through response.redirect. response.redirect generates a pre-defined
response (in other words, no other code on the page affects the response),
so you couldn't change the status code through script. you may want to
look into a possible option in IIS (that pre-defined response has to be
stored somewhere, right?).

hth,

--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com

From mail at jasoncartwright.com Sat Jun 15 18:30:00 2002
From: mail at jasoncartwright.com (Jason Cartwright)
Date: Sat Jun 15 18:30:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Funny Behavior on icq.com
In-Reply-To: <000001c214bf$0ee6c8f0$fde9fea9@amber8wz6511xb>
Message-ID: <000001c214c4$2904a130$0100a8c0@jason>

In my experience ICQ's whitepages search is very buggy. It is quite a
big - 120m users, and it is probably running on legacy systems seeing as
it has been going since '96. Seems to be working fine for me today
though.

There was even rumour of it being hacked sometime ago -
http://makeashorterlink.com/?P48426111

Jason
www.jasoncartwright.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Burhan Khalid
> Sent: 15 June 2002 23:50
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Funny Behavior on icq.com

From cpwarman at lvcm.com Sat Jun 15 21:16:01 2002
From: cpwarman at lvcm.com (Paul J. Warman)
Date: Sat Jun 15 21:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Need Form HTML Help
Message-ID:

Hi All,

I am new to this list being referred by a "PCWorker".

I can do most of the basic HTML on my own, but have a couple of problems
that I do not know how to handle. I have a client who is using
www.paybycheck.com . This site has a finite set of parameters that feed a
form. I need to know:

1: "How (and if) can I concatenate several fields and check boxes from a
FrontPage 2000 form into one
variable to pass with the submit?"

2:

Is it possible to get both of the above POST actions to happen on one click
of the submit button.

TIA

Paul J. Warman
mailto:cpwarman at lvcm.com
mailto:paul at computerswereus.com
COMPUTERS WERE US, INC.

From dbaxo at ihug.co.nz Sat Jun 15 21:18:00 2002
From: dbaxo at ihug.co.nz (Duncan O'Neill)
Date: Sat Jun 15 21:18:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re:DHTML help please
Message-ID: <3D0BF66B.4060701@ihug.co.nz>

Techwatcher wrote:
I have a page where I want to dynamically generate a

table using DOM methods. (
document.createElement("table")
document.createElement("tbody")
etc.

The individual cell contents are links written using
cell.innerHTML with calls to a javascript function.

My problem is the page layout. On a PC, everything is
fine, but on a Mac extra space is being added both
vertically and horizontally, making the table way too
wide, and wrecking the layout. I've tried everything,
including these statements;

cell.style.padding = 0 + "px";
thelink.style.padding = 0 + "px";
myTable.style.width = 200 + "px";

You're aware that the stuff surrounding content is padding then border
then margin, right? You have set border and margin to 0 also, or
collapsed them, or something?

Cheers techwatcher (Carol Stein)

Carol,

thanks very much for your reply. Yes, I *have* tried setting
the margins *and* padding to 0, but the aforesaid programs
seem to be ignoring it. I've also set links to display:inline,
so that they don't cause link breaks. But still, the problem
remains.

Any other ideas / suggestions would be much appreciated.

cheers,

=====================================================
Duncan O'Neill
=====================================================

From ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu Sun Jun 16 00:48:01 2002
From: ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu (Sean G.)
Date: Sun Jun 16 00:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Looking for bad words
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:

Howdy,

"This poster contains a list of 2,443 impolite words and phrases compiled by
George Carlin."

http://store.yahoo.com/laughstore/inlisofimwor.html

HTH,

Sean G.

-----Original Message-----

This is a weird one. Am setting up a web page that posts what people
enter and want to do basic screening for naughty words. I know it can
be defeated easily and that's not a concern. But I need a reasonably
comprehensive list of dirty words. Anyone know of any?
--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

From gozz at gozz.com Sun Jun 16 01:22:00 2002
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Sun Jun 16 01:22:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Looking for bad words
In-Reply-To:
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020615133927.01f56ec0@mail.incutio.com>

Message-ID:

My [first letter of the _lph_bet] key isn't working, so I c_n't find
it ... but there is CF Custom T_g c_lled "toiletw_tch" th_t h_s
deful_t list of words to filter - it's in the document_tion.

>I need a reasonably
>comprehensive list of dirty words. Anyone know of any?

--

__________________________________________
- Erik Mattheis

(612) 377 2272
http://goZz.com/

Through Early July
9am - 4pm M-F:
(952) 838 7698

__________________________________________

From richard.bennett at skynet.be Sun Jun 16 02:35:00 2002
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Sun Jun 16 02:35:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Looking for bad words
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020615133927.01f56ec0@mail.incutio.com>
Message-ID: <00fb01c21508$4080cde0$5a02c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

Hi,
<----- Original Message -----

Message-ID: <000001c21539$0a3c2c30$7a01a8c0@HomeNetwork.Slatoff.com>

Even better... If you're using Window's XP...
C:\WINDOWS\system32\osk.exe.

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Richard Bennett
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 12:34 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Looking for bad words

Hi,
<----- Original Message -----

Message-ID: <001101c2154f$38abfb70$9865fea9@Laptop>

Re question no. 2, do you know what that second POST action is supposed to
do? It's definitely FP proprietary stuff and may not be necessary at all.
Since it looks to be posting to itself, I'm wondering if it's simply some
sort of form validation. If so, you can validate the form using javascript
"onSubmit" and have only the first POST action that you need.

Re question no. 1, I'd think that would depend on the type of URL
parameter(s) the recieving page at paybycheck.com is expecting. You could
use javascript to do something along the lines of what you want, but it's
hard to describe how without seeing your form or knowing what precisely
needs to be passed.

Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t S o l u t i o n s
http://www.OnPointSolutions.com

From cpwarman at lvcm.com Sun Jun 16 11:33:01 2002
From: cpwarman at lvcm.com (Paul J. Warman)
Date: Sun Jun 16 11:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Need Form HTML Help
In-Reply-To: <001101c2154f$38abfb70$9865fea9@Laptop>
Message-ID:

Hi Bob,

Thanks for taking the time to answer. The second post is for a FrontPage
Sendmail so that I can send the form to the client as well as sending the
data to PayByCheck.

I may not have explained the first item in enough detail. I have three text
boxes and three check boxes giving me a total of six variables. PayByCheck
has one field, called memo into which I want to concatenate all six
variables.

When I get the variables back in an email I can deconstruct the string. I
just don't know how to construct the string in HTML to send it to
PayByCheck.

Thanks

Paul J. Warman
mailto:cpwarman at lvcm.com
mailto:paul at computerswereus.com
COMPUTERS WERE US, INC.

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Bob Haroche
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 9:03 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Need Form HTML Help

Re question no. 2, do you know what that second POST action is supposed to
do? It's definitely FP proprietary stuff and may not be necessary at all.
Since it looks to be posting to itself, I'm wondering if it's simply some
sort of form validation. If so, you can validate the form using javascript
"onSubmit" and have only the first POST action that you need.

Re question no. 1, I'd think that would depend on the type of URL
parameter(s) the recieving page at paybycheck.com is expecting. You could
use javascript to do something along the lines of what you want, but it's
hard to describe how without seeing your form or knowing what precisely
needs to be passed.

Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t S o l u t i o n s
http://www.OnPointSolutions.com

From webmaster at menouno.com Sun Jun 16 11:35:04 2002
From: webmaster at menouno.com (Massimo Mezzini)
Date: Sun Jun 16 11:35:04 2002
Subject: [thelist] Shared email clients and privacy/security
In-Reply-To: <004201c2148a$eb826970$9865fea9@Laptop>
Message-ID: <3D0CDAAA.30352.7021F6@localhost>

On 15 Jun 2002 at 9:37, Bob Haroche wrote about
Re: [thelist] Shared email clients :

> I just set up Mercury pop/smtp server last night and
> am impressed with its features and security.
> Am I wrong though that you need to run your
> own dns server (or at least have control over your
> dns addresses) in order to receive email addressed
> to your domain?

I suppose that if you want to run it as the primary mail server for your domain - yes,
you would need a static IP and a DNS record pointing at it. But I've only used
Mercury/32 as a local server on some small networks (5-75 users), downloading via
POP3, handling internal mail and sending out though some ISP's SMTP servers.
More or less what Adrian Fischer needed.

If you need help to manage Mercury/32 and Pegasus Mail, the support lists running
on bama.edu are really helpful and let you browse the list archives. See
. I can't reach it at the moment but it's
probably my connection.

ciao

Massimo

From danfascia at totalise.co.uk Sun Jun 16 12:15:00 2002
From: danfascia at totalise.co.uk (Daniel Fascia)
Date: Sun Jun 16 12:15:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess help
Message-ID: <5LHHCRONMDCKEJIIEKKWTMHIF093W.3d0cc722@DANFASCIA-21>

How do I setup my .htaccess file so that the PHP parser parses .html files as well
as .php?

cheers

Dan

From sub at shanx.com Sun Jun 16 12:27:01 2002
From: sub at shanx.com (Shashank Tripathi)
Date: Sun Jun 16 12:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess help
In-Reply-To: <5LHHCRONMDCKEJIIEKKWTMHIF093W.3d0cc722@DANFASCIA-21>
Message-ID: <000b01c2155a$def84e10$0200a8c0@SHASHANK>

If in your .htaccess,

AddHandler application/x-httpd-php .html .htm .php

If in your httpd.conf,

AddType application/x-httpd-php .html .htm .php

HTH
Shanx

| -----Original Message-----
| From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
| [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Fascia
| Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 2:13 AM
| To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
| Subject: [thelist] .htaccess help
|
|
| How do I setup my .htaccess file so that the PHP parser
| parses .html files as well as .php?
|
| cheers
|
| Dan
|
|
| --
| For unsubscribe and other options, including
| the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

From martin at takingitglobal.org Sun Jun 16 12:28:00 2002
From: martin at takingitglobal.org (Martin Kuplens-Ewart)
Date: Sun Jun 16 12:28:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess help
In-Reply-To: <5LHHCRONMDCKEJIIEKKWTMHIF093W.3d0cc722@DANFASCIA-21>
Message-ID: <000001c2155a$fcfcc8a0$6501a8c0@martinlaptop>

> How do I setup my .htaccess file so that the PHP parser
> parses .html files as well as .php?

AddType application/x-httpd-php .html

From danfascia at totalise.co.uk Sun Jun 16 13:06:01 2002
From: danfascia at totalise.co.uk (Daniel Fascia)
Date: Sun Jun 16 13:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] more .htaccess fun
Message-ID:

Thanks for the last advice guys, works a treat...

now what about this one?

I want to convert a clean url into a dynamic one...

is this possible in the .htaccess (cos it doesnt want to work, gives a 500 error)

redirect /portfolio /index.html?cnt=portfolio

Cheers again

Dan

From martin at takingitglobal.org Sun Jun 16 13:26:00 2002
From: martin at takingitglobal.org (Martin Kuplens-Ewart)
Date: Sun Jun 16 13:26:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] more .htaccess fun
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <000101c21563$190d68d0$6501a8c0@martinlaptop>

> redirect /portfolio /index.html?cnt=portfolio
> gives a 500 error)

Looks like your index.html isn't able to world execute...

-m

From jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu Sun Jun 16 13:46:01 2002
From: jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu (Jonathon Isaac Swiderski)
Date: Sun Jun 16 13:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ?xml &c. declaration
Message-ID: <200206161845.OAA24932@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>

Can anyone on thelist give me a good reason for using the xml declaration, (ie
) in a page? It tosses IE6 into
bass-ackward mode, screwing up pages like this one
http://cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders/ (there should be a third image on the left, in
the middle; it shows without the ?xml line); as tom just mentioned it
occasionally gets displayed as text or forces older browsers to thinking it's
not HTML & trying to download the page. I'd like to leave this line in, as it
*is* part of the recommendation for XHTML (or seems to be; see
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#docconf under the "example of a minimal XHTML
document."), but I can't think of any reason I should leave it in.

Anyone?

thanks
jonathon

--
Jonathon Isaac Swiderski jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu
cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders \\ members.evolt.org/jswiders

Sarcasm is just one more service we offer.

From chris at setmajer.com Sun Jun 16 14:12:01 2002
From: chris at setmajer.com (Chris Kaminski)
Date: Sun Jun 16 14:12:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ?xml &c. declaration
In-Reply-To: <200206161845.OAA24932@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>
Message-ID:

Thus spake Jonathon Isaac Swiderski:

> Can anyone on thelist give me a good reason for using the xml declaration, (ie
> ) in a page? It tosses IE6 into
> bass-ackward mode,

That would be the main reason I use it: when IE6 is getting caught in
filters for IE4-5 but doesn't need the 'fixes' for those browsers.

> as tom just mentioned it occasionally gets displayed as text or forces older
> browsers to thinking it's not HTML & trying to download the page.

I'm wondering if those glitches are really due to the declaration or
if perhaps there's a server configuration issue going on, as I've not
experienced that problem. Then again, the browser I heard this in connection
with was Mac IE4.5, which I haven't seen in our logs in over 12 months.
YMMV.

> I'd like to leave this line in, as it *is* part of the recommendation for
> XHTML (or seems to be; see http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#docconf under the
> "example of a minimal XHTML document."), but I can't think of any reason I
> should leave it in.

To declare the character set? You could do that with a tag as well,
but that can cause a double-load in NN4.0x (both platforms) if your server
is either not sending a charset declaration as an HTTP header or is sending
one different from the one you're using in your tag. NN4.0x will load
the page once with the server-specified charset, then again with the charset
in the tag. The nasty thing is that it forgets some of your CSS on
the 2nd load.

Probably the best approach to charset issues is to just configure the server
to send the proper charset in an HTTP header and leave it out of the
document altogether. AFAIK, that's a perfectly valid approach, though the
W3C validator does issue a 'warning' of sorts.

chris.kaminski == ( design | code | analysis )

------------------------------------------------------------
I used to be an idealist, but then I got
mugged by reality.
-------------------------------------------<< unknown >>

From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Sun Jun 16 14:35:01 2002
From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher)
Date: Sun Jun 16 14:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] WARNING: Very odd browser behavior -- anybody else seeing this?
Message-ID:

Hi, ALL --

My Web host is working on this issue, but I wanted to alert this list
to a VERY odd happening:

About 2 weeks back I put up a tiny prototype site for someone who wants
to hire me. Last night I made some textual changes and loaded them onto
that same subdomain I had set up before (just as a convenient place
from which he can look at the pages).

Now, 2 weeks ago, I created a rough "banner.gif" and I didn't change
this file. The pages all have a background color of #CCFFFF (the famous
minty green), with a pale green grid as a background transparent gif.
The banner.gif is just the color of the background grid, with a white
or pale (minty) green much smaller grid running through it. Last week
all was displaying normally.

In the interim, this machine, running IE v 5.5, had Klez worm
infection. Several times we ran FixKlez, and also installed the newest
Norton 2000 package (antivirus plus firewall) when it arrived via snail
mail.

Now, as of last night, the banner.gif is NOT VISIBLE from this browser,
on my host's server. I can look at the files on a floppy, and this same
browser does display the banner.gif -- in fact, my host can look at the
pages and see the banner.gif file!

Just to make things even weirder, on my own site accesswriters.com
there is a completely different file called banner.gif which has also
become invisible (to me!) since last week.

Has anyone else seen this behavior on a browser recently? Say, after
installing Norton 2000 firewall & antivirus? Or, after a Klez worm
infection? Or has someone written a virus tackling only files named
banner.gif?

"Danger, Will Robinson!!!"

Cheers --
Carol Stein
techwatcher at accesswriters.com

From bharoche at usa.net Sun Jun 16 14:53:00 2002
From: bharoche at usa.net (Bob Haroche)
Date: Sun Jun 16 14:53:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] WARNING: Very odd browser behavior -- anybody else seeing this?
References:
Message-ID: <004d01c2156f$5d5d3d60$12f6c9d0@OFFICE>

Have you enabled ad blocking in Norton Firewall? If so that's probably
blocking your gifs based on their names. When you connect to the Net you're
likely using Norton as a proxy server to filter out the banner ads (real or
not). Locally, if you're not making an http request the proxy doesn't kick
in so you can view the graphics.

Re-name your server graphic something innocuous like myGraphic.gif and see
if it's visible again.

Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t S o l u t i o n s
http://www.OnPointSolutions.com

From danfascia at totalise.co.uk Sun Jun 16 15:08:01 2002
From: danfascia at totalise.co.uk (Daniel Fascia)
Date: Sun Jun 16 15:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] more .htaccess fun
In-Reply-To: <000101c21563$190d68d0$6501a8c0@martinlaptop>
Message-ID:

>> redirect /portfolio /index.html?cnt=portfolio
>> gives a 500 error)
>
>Looks like your index.html isn't able to world execute...
>

It doesnt work with anything I redirect to... Im thinking that Im not allowed
to use redirects or something as fundamental as that

From jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu Sun Jun 16 15:31:00 2002
From: jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu (Jonathon Isaac Swiderski)
Date: Sun Jun 16 15:31:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ?xml &c. declaration
In-Reply-To: (message from Chris Kaminski
on Sun, 16 Jun 2002 21:23:13 +0200)
References:
Message-ID: <200206162030.QAA28849@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>

From: Chris Kaminski
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 21:23:13 +0200

Thus spake Jonathon Isaac Swiderski:

> Can anyone on thelist give me a good reason for using the xml declaration, (ie
> ) in a page? It tosses IE6 into
> bass-ackward mode,

That would be the main reason I use it: when IE6 is getting caught in
filters for IE4-5 but doesn't need the 'fixes' for those browsers.

I had the opposite problem: IE6 was creating a problem that didn't exist in 5
(or at least, wasn't the same; see below).

> as tom just mentioned it occasionally gets displayed as text or forces older
> browsers to thinking it's not HTML & trying to download the page.

I'm wondering if those glitches are really due to the declaration or
if perhaps there's a server configuration issue going on, as I've not
experienced that problem. Then again, the browser I heard this in connection
with was Mac IE4.5, which I haven't seen in our logs in over 12 months.
YMMV.

Found a copy of IE4.01/Mac in one of the other labs in the division where I
work. Interesting thing: while IE5/Win doesn't have the same problem with the
graphic that i had with 6 in backwards mode (it has a *different* problem :( ),
4.01 did. (namely, the middle graphic on the left was dropped. what makes this
graphic different from the other two? this in the css:
img.vlad {
width:80%;
height:80%;
}
IE 5 doesn't drop it; it just doesn't take the 'height' value. It actually
looks kinda like it enlarges it a bit, but that's probably just an illusion.)

> I'd like to leave this line in, as it *is* part of the recommendation for
> XHTML (or seems to be; see http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#docconf under the
> "example of a minimal XHTML document."), but I can't think of any reason I
> should leave it in.

[snip NN 4.0x issues with meta charset declarations]

Probably the best approach to charset issues is to just configure the server
to send the proper charset in an HTTP header and leave it out of the
document altogether. AFAIK, that's a perfectly valid approach, though the
W3C validator does issue a 'warning' of sorts.

Nope, nothing. Put a
AddCharset iso-8859-1 .html
line in my .htaccess, and dropped the tag, and had nary a peep from the
validator.

--
Jonathon Isaac Swiderski jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu
cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders \\ members.evolt.org/jswiders

Success is getting what you want; happiness is wanting
what you get.

From sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com Sun Jun 16 16:30:00 2002
From: sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com (Sharon F. Malone)
Date: Sun Jun 16 16:30:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] test - have you received this?
Message-ID: <001d01c2157c$971bba60$349ab2d1@oemcomputer>

Hi - I just switched hosts and dial-up access provider. Have received very little mail from Evolt since Friday...and today (Sun) have received nothing since mid morning. It's now 2:30pm.

Would someone kindly respond to this just so I know what's going on?

Thanks so much,
Sharon
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com
sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com

From evolt at stoutstreet.com Sun Jun 16 16:33:00 2002
From: evolt at stoutstreet.com (patrick)
Date: Sun Jun 16 16:33:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] test - have you received this?
References: <001d01c2157c$971bba60$349ab2d1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <00e101c2157d$a8a7a6d0$2a6d5140@pooky>

it's been pretty slow....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon F. Malone"
To:
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 3:27 PM
Subject: [thelist] test - have you received this?

> Hi - I just switched hosts and dial-up access provider. Have received very
little mail from Evolt since Friday...and today (Sun) have received nothing
since mid morning. It's now 2:30pm.
>
> Would someone kindly respond to this just so I know what's going on?
>
> Thanks so much,
> Sharon

From sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com Sun Jun 16 16:44:01 2002
From: sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com (sfmalo)
Date: Sun Jun 16 16:44:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] test - have you received this?
Message-ID: <200206161443.AA24772706@24caratdesign.com>

Thanks, Patrick. Appreciate the reply. Kinda a shock to not see the messages pouring in!!!!

Best,
Sharon
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "patrick"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 15:34:56 -0600

>it's been pretty slow....
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Sharon F. Malone"
>To:
>Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 3:27 PM
>Subject: [thelist] test - have you received this?
>
>
>> Hi - I just switched hosts and dial-up access provider. Have received very
>little mail from Evolt since Friday...and today (Sun) have received nothing
>since mid morning. It's now 2:30pm.
>>
>> Would someone kindly respond to this just so I know what's going on?
>>
>> Thanks so much,
>> Sharon
>
>--
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>

From jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu Sun Jun 16 17:07:01 2002
From: jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu (Jonathon Isaac Swiderski)
Date: Sun Jun 16 17:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] test - have you received this?
In-Reply-To: <200206161443.AA24772706@24caratdesign.com>
(sfmalo@24caratdesign.com)
References: <200206161443.AA24772706@24caratdesign.com>
Message-ID: <200206162206.SAA30051@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>

From: "sfmalo"

Thanks, Patrick. Appreciate the reply. Kinda a shock to not see the messages
pouring in!!!!

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "patrick"

>it's been pretty slow....

it usually is on weekends; it's usually especially slow on Sundays. Lots of
people only get messages at their work addresses, or only check mail from work,
so they don't read or write the list on the weekend. . . It's also Father's Day
in the US, so a lot of people are taking the day to be with their families.
(Me? I'm working, but then my parents are out of town a couple more days.)

--
Jonathon Isaac Swiderski jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu
cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders \\ members.evolt.org/jswiders

"The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Roger Brinner

From sub at shanx.com Sun Jun 16 18:48:01 2002
From: sub at shanx.com (Shashank Tripathi)
Date: Sun Jun 16 18:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] more .htaccess fun
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <000401c21590$27962360$0200a8c0@SHASHANK>

Hi Daniel,

| >> redirect /portfolio /index.html?cnt=portfolio
| >> gives a 500 error)
| >
| It doesnt work with anything I redirect to... Im thinking
| that Im not allowed to use redirects or something as
| fundamental as that
|

As your hosting provider if they support mod_rewrite module from Apache,
it is needed for such redirects but not all hosts have it installed. If
you are sure that you have it, try this in your .htaccess in whatever
folder your index.html is in:

.htaccess
----------

RewriteEngine On

# Send their request to index.html
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ /index.html?cnt=portfolio [L,R]

Let me know if this is what you were looking for.

Cheers
Shanx

From shaggy at members.evolt.org Sun Jun 16 20:58:01 2002
From: shaggy at members.evolt.org (Martin Tsachev)
Date: Sun Jun 16 20:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Hand Coding (was Dreamweaver Codewriting)
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <1653949038.20020616115006@members.evolt.org>

Hello Kostal,

Wednesday, June 12, 2002, 11:01:26 PM, you wrote:

KDSK> But finally I had to admit, that Dreamweaver in general just writes cleaner
KDSK> code than I do. Also getting visual feedback is very important to create a
KDSK> well designed page in my opinion and Dreamweaver does a pretty good job
KDSK> doing this. And You always have the code it generates right in front of you
KDSK> as well.

Then you haven't yet learnt to hand code. Besides visual feedback *is
misleading* - it's not print it's the web, the same code may look
completely different on different browsers/platforms.

KDSK> I still cannot see the advantages, why I should work differently, though. I
KDSK> mean, you are not really sitting down and writing out the whole thing
KDSK> manually, are you? You have at least some aid that takes this tedious typing
KDSK> away from you.

Actually typing it yourself is *faster* than having to move your hand
to the mouse click a button, then move back your hand to the keyboard
then type something and again...

KDSK> Here's another point: You don't write PostScript by hand when designing
KDSK> printed pages either? Eventually Web Design, at least form the Layout and
KDSK> visual point of view, will be like working in QuarkXPress, weather you like
KDSK> it or not.

Tell me please how can you expect a web page to look the same on a 21"
monitor and an average PDA with a black on white display? PostScript
is a completely different story and yes I won't hand write it if I had
to **PRINT**.

--
Martin Tsachev
Web developer

http://members.evolt.org/shaggy/

From shaggy at members.evolt.org Sun Jun 16 20:58:12 2002
From: shaggy at members.evolt.org (Martin Tsachev)
Date: Sun Jun 16 20:58:12 2002
Subject: [thelist] PAGE OPTIMIZATION: source readability v. download w eight
In-Reply-To: <3D07AFE4.C0DD4C07@nthwave.net>
References: <20020612202345.1090.qmail@web12605.mail.yahoo.com>
<3D07AFE4.C0DD4C07@nthwave.net>
Message-ID: <1455377332.20020616121354@members.evolt.org>

Hello Michael,

Wednesday, June 12, 2002, 11:32:36 PM, you wrote:

MM> Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:

>> Define "cleaner"...to me "cleaner" is a subjective term.

MM> I knew this was going to come up. "Cleaner" is not accurate. I will make a stand that it is "More
MM> Concise" and perhaps "Elegant".

>>
>> blah()
>> {
>> more blah
>> }

MM> According to Linus, the above way is correct for functions, incorrect for if statements.
MM> Who knew? I still don't like it. Uh, I mean, it wastes space for no benefit.

The PEAR guys think the same, I don't really understand why functions
should be different than if/for statements. They also prefer 4 spaces
than a tab.

On the other side if you look at PHP's coding standards they promote
the use of K&R and tabs - actually some part of the PHP source is
really written in this style and the other in the mentioned above.
Zend also use the PEAR style.

For me PHP again proves to be very inconsistent not that I care about
the source if it's working for me but they are inconsistent with
function names and parameter order too.

--
Martin Tsachev
Web developer

http://members.evolt.org/shaggy/

From shaggy at members.evolt.org Sun Jun 16 20:58:24 2002
From: shaggy at members.evolt.org (Martin Tsachev)
Date: Sun Jun 16 20:58:24 2002
Subject: [thelist] PAGE OPTIMIZATION: source readability v. download weight (not javascript function discussing :)
In-Reply-To: <20020612210845.67025.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020612210845.67025.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1445935815.20020616122313@members.evolt.org>

Hello Peter,

Thursday, June 13, 2002, 12:08:44 AM, you wrote:

PT> A fun easy optimization that ppl seem to forget that
PT> shaves a little weight off is \r\n -v \n . Want to
PT> easily get rid of some bytes and still be readable,
PT> open up your favorite win32 html doc in vim and tell
PT> it to save it as a *nix filetype (not windows)..then
PT> remove the redundent \r's ... this will save you a
PT> byte per line and still look readable.

PT> -Peter

That one is very good but you don't really need to do it by hand, some
editors - SciTE, EditPlus (Win32 only) can do all the work themselves.

If you're using *nin/Mac by default you already have saved that bytes.

--
Martin Tsachev
Web developer

http://members.evolt.org/shaggy/

From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Jun 16 21:46:00 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sun Jun 16 21:46:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] test - have you received this?
In-Reply-To: <001d01c2157c$971bba60$349ab2d1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <3D0D1452.29973.CDC66B34@localhost>

> Hi - I just switched hosts and dial-up access provider. Have received
> very little mail from Evolt since Friday...and today (Sun) have
> received nothing since mid morning. It's now 2:30pm.
>
> Would someone kindly respond to this just so I know what's going on?

folks, there's an easier way to test your mail connectivity that
doesn't involve sending a test message to thelist...

for starters, you can always check thelist archives to see if you
have all the posts that have come through:
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/ ...or...
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020610/date.html

the first post from today was this one at 12:48am:
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020610/115443.html

only 18 other posts came in before this test post, probably owing to
the fact that it's a sunday, and in the U.S., it's fathers' day...

if you're missing posts, sending a message may tell you nothing if it
doesn't come through (is it your mail service, or thelist?)...
instead, you can email the list admin address (thelist-
admin at lists.evolt.org) to check to see if they've received any
bounces from your address...

failing that, if you want to see if your post is coming through,
consider sending it to thechat instead of thelist...

and if, despite all this, you find you've sent one to thelist, please
be sure it has a within...

If you've declared an anchor to have the 'display:block' CSS
property, but IE5.x/win still isn't counting the entire area of the
(not just the text of the link) as a hyperlink, try adding a
'background-color' property. Since the default value of 'background-
color' is transparent, adding a color value seems to force IE to
recognize the entire space of the link.

--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg
ISBN: 1904151035

From kevin.obrien at cuaa.edu Sun Jun 16 23:17:04 2002
From: kevin.obrien at cuaa.edu (Kevin B. O'Brien)
Date: Sun Jun 16 23:17:04 2002
Subject: [thelist] CGI help
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020617000236.00b2a230@mail.cuaa.edu>

I am sort of new at this and could use some help if someone doesn't mind.

I am trying to use Martin's "cookie_trail.cgi" script (from the Evolt
site), and I get the error:

[an error occurred while processing this directive]

on the page whenever I load it. I know that I checked the permissions on
the /cgi-bin/ directory and on the script, and they are both set to 755. I
did put in the latest copy of cgi-lib.pl as well.

The page is at http://www.zwilnik.com/test.shtml.

I would be grateful for any help or suggestions.

--
Kevin B. O'Brien
Webmaster
Concordia University
kevin.obrien at cuaa.edu
(734)995-7437}