[thelist] Re: CSS 'hacks'

Michael Mell mike at nthwave.net
Mon Jun 10 14:07:01 CDT 2002


Whoa, I just stepped in a big one. Sorry for the unintended offense.
I find Javascript extremely frustrating to work with. As a language and concept, it's wonderful.
It's varied implementations across browsers and platforms makes using it in practice a major
headache. I decided long ago to do everything possible on the server and use Javascript in the
browser only when necessary.

As you say, my guidelines do not fall any where close to the realm of the 12 practices listed in
the XP FAQ I linked to. The XP school is simply a model I would like to see emulated in the realm
of web coding.

Rather than looking to offend, I hoped my post would generate a set of guiding principles for
coding websites.

So, Tom, do you have web site coding guide line you work with?

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:

> Wow, I'm wanting to know more about the "Javascript as a system that suck(s)" and why, myself.
> I've been in contact with XP before and think its a great idea. However, "avoid working with
> systems that suck" may be your XP guidelines but that hardly falls under the 12 core practices
> outlined in the FAQ!
>
> If you were attempting to adopt a XP philosophy in your work, you would not necessarily avoid
> working with a system, as much as work with a system within the XP framework.
>
> Again, I realize these are your practices for yourself. But I don't see "javascript sucks so I
> don't use it if possible" and XP matching up.
>
> Tom
> --- Michael Mell <mike at nthwave.net> wrote:
> > There is a concept floating around called Extreme Programming (XP). Here is a
> > quick intro:
> > http://www.jera.com/techinfo/xpfaq.html
> >
> > XP goes far beyond simple coding practices, but I have an intuitively defined
> > set of guidelines that I think of as my XP guidelines.
> > ~ do nothing that is not platform independent
> > ~ avoid working with systems that suck (I include Javascript here)
> > ~ if necessary to work with sucky systems, keep it to a minimum (most of CSS in
> > NS4)
> > ~ always build in an Object Oriented way (even my simplest websites use a CMS)
> >
> > Anyone have a more rigorous set of XP guidelines for html/css?
> >
> > mike
> >
> > jcanfield at magisnetworks.com wrote:
> >
> > > > i'm not anti-css, in fact i definitely and wholeheartedly
> > > > believe in separating style from content, but at the same
> > > > time, i have a very strong aversion to what i call hacks
> > > > (donning my flame retardant suit), so if anything, i am
> > > > perhaps just a css anti-guru....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > rudy
> > >
> > > No, you're an evangelist for the true faith.
> > >
> > > Part of what's wrong with the web is that so many of us have felt compelled
> > > to hack HTML for presentation instead of leaving it as a structural tool.
> > > Standards are making progress, and the browsers are (albeit sluggishly)
> > > following suit. Let's not submit ourselves to years of CSS hacks which we'll
> > > all have to unlearn next year, the way we now all have to unlearn HTML
> > > presentational hacks.
> > >
> > > joel
> > > --
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> >
> > --
> > mike[at]nthwave.net
> > llemekim         YahooIM
> > 415.455.8812     voice
> > 419.735.1167     fax
> >
> >
> > --
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
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--
mike[at]nthwave.net
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415.455.8812     voice
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