[thelist] Re: search for CSS-compliant, simple browser

Steve Cook steve.cook at evitbe.com
Thu Jul 4 10:05:00 CDT 2002

Just wanted to make a couple of points regarding this post about Opera.

Opera 6.03				11,294Kb
Netscape Navigator 4.07		9,966Kb
Netscape 4.77 Communicator	17,370Kb (base install) 22,931Kb (Full
Netscape 6.01			30,365Kb
IE 6.0				78,587Kb

Of course this doesn't prove much, as I think you point was that having
Netscape available on a CD was quicker than downloading Opera. (!!)

Your point about TV listings being displayed badly nicely illustrates the
problems that web page designers have today with designing for various
browsers vs designing for standards. Entering the Gist URL in the W3C
validator shows that their page fails validation horrifically, showing that
to get their pages to work nicely on Netscape they have thrown standards out
the window. What does "Renders normal sites (to read e-mail on Web-based,
host-provided client; look up tv listings; etc.) normally." mean anyhow?
What's a normal website?

You're probably right that the Opera homepage is difficult to navigate, but
don't most users simply install new software and then start using it?
Possibly not. I haven't installed Opera, so I don't really know how their
start page is formatted, but if it's anything like the webpages of other
browser manufacturers then you're probably right that it is not intuitive.
But then if you were taken to Netscapes startup page for the first time
having used Opera for years, then you'd probably feel the same way about

Finally, regarding the interface, you touch upon an eternal dilemma. Does a
company innovate and go its own way, trying to create a product that stands
out in the market, or does it play it safe and copy what the rest of the
market is doing?

I would just like to point out that I don't feel strongly one way or the
other about Opera. I use it occassionally to test pages, but generally I use
either IE or Galeon (on Linux). However I don't think the points that you
have made about shortcomings in Opera are very fair. Of course someone who
changes from a product they have used for many years to something they
haven't tried before is going to feel that it has various shortcomings,
however often people find that after a short learning curve they discover
that the new product has features they never dreamt of and wouldn't go back
to their old product if you paid them. On the other hand, your point that
many people will simply stick with Netscape 4.0 is pretty much correct and
designers should of course take that into account when creating pages.

Sorry I've rambled on so long - I hope you see what I'm getting at!


 Cookstour - http://www.cookstour.org

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Techwatcher [mailto:techwatcher at accesswriters.com]
> Sent: den 4 juli 2002 16:11
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Re: search for CSS-compliant, simple browser
> This morning I was up early to try to download a browser.
> Selected Opera from the browsers at evolt, worked out how to
> get FTP client to
> download it, downloaded it (one hour). Installed it. Yikes!
> So I'm back to using Netscape Navigator 4.0... Opera displays
> practically all sites with wrappings that make them almost unreadable.
> Perhaps if I spent another hour reading the Opera-related
> instructions, I might be able to, say, see the normal grid of
> tv listings at Gist, or
> see the list (with columns) of my e-mail. Guess if I'm going
> to put another hour into that chore?
> I hope this is giving some insight to folks on this list who
> wish the Netscape Navigator version 4.0 browser would go
> away. I have an
> ancient CD, which makes it quick and easy to install that
> browser. When I install it, I know how to use it. Doesn't
> require huge amounts of
> customization. Renders normal sites (to read e-mail on
> Web-based, host-provided client; look up tv listings; etc.) normally.
> If a new browser wants to take over, its first job is to get
> smaller. Second, make the home page less intimidating the
> first time someone
> arrives there -- I don't want to spend time learning all your
> new features before I can get to my own work. Third, make the
> initial or interface
> look familiar; offer me information about your wonderful
> advanced features at another time (perhaps e-mail me a link
> to a tuturial I can view
> at my leisure)!
> Cheers --
> Carol Stein
> techwatcher at accesswriters.com
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
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> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

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