[thelist] Re: Re: search for CSS-compliant, simple browser

Techwatcher techwatcher at accesswriters.com
Thu Jul 4 16:23:01 CDT 2002

Hi --

> Your point about TV listings being displayed badly nicely illustrates the
> problems that web page designers have today with designing for various
> browsers vs designing for standards. Entering the Gist URL in the W3C
> validator shows that their page fails validation horrifically, showing that
> to get their pages to work nicely on Netscape they have thrown standards out
> the window.
Perhaps they have -- but then, my even older browser (the I.E. 2.0) also manages to display the Gist pages
better than Opera's tiny little column that seems infinitely long! Surely the new standards are not that badly backwards-compatible???

What does "Renders normal sites (to read e-mail on Web-based,
> host-provided client; look up tv listings; etc.) normally." mean anyhow?
> What's a normal website?
If I even try to use Neomail with Opera, which is a simple Web-based e-mail system, again, I get a very long, very not-wide (thin) column
wrapping messages, headers, dates, etc. in such a way I can't even tell who has sent what! It seems to wrap absolutely everything. I tried
a couple other sites, but none was recognizable. (Well, it doesn't help that Yahoo has decided to pretty itself up. Pretty poor timing, I'd

> You're probably right that the Opera homepage is difficult to navigate, but
> don't most users simply install new software and then start using it?
With a browser, one tries first (or *I* try first!) to set security levels and so on. As I did. Also, the browser started in a display mode that
had about 1/3 of my screen taken up with its silly toolbars and such, none of which I wanted -- and I couldn't even find where to turn off
that aspect of the display. Searching, and then its Help menu, didn't turn up a solution. Finally, I gave up and just started trying to search,
but then I ran into the bad displays of e-mail, the bad displays of tv listings, etc. Grrrr.

> Finally, regarding the interface, you touch upon an eternal dilemma. Does a
> company innovate and go its own way, trying to create a product that stands
> out in the market, or does it play it safe and copy what the rest of the
> market is doing?
My suggestion, which was serious, was that companies should present an inoffensively FAMILIAR interface on initial (not even default!)
presentation. Then follow-up with an e-mail, linking to a tutorial, allowing us to explore, on OUR schedule, all the great new features. I
would have liked that option.

> ... Netscape [snip]
I don't WANT to stick with Netscape 4.0!!! And I don't intend to design future pages for those who use it (for sites for most audiences),
either.  I'm trying to learn to design pages with CSS, instead of the table technique I mastered back in '97 or so. That's really much harder
when you can't see the result of your own code. (-8

Anyway, I may follow Tom McMillen's to try kmelon. Perhaps Sunday morning, when I can again expect my FTP program to perform at
the full 32k baud rate permitted by this aging modem. sigh.

Cheers --

<tip type="table coding assistance" author="Carol Stein (techwatcher)">
An oldie but goodie: If you're working with a table, and have a problem, go back into it and turn ON the borders so you can more easily
see exactly what's gone wrong. Don't forget to turn them off again when you've solved it!

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