[thelist] What shall we do with the W3C DOM?

[Peter-Paul Koch]

Replies to Kevin, Tom and Ron:

> > So when the W3C DOM comes into serious use we web developers
> > should take one step back from the visible and clickable interface > of
>the website and concentrate on the application layer that > *creates* this
>visible and clickable interface.
> >
> > Is this a brilliant idea or complete nonsense?
></snip>
>
>Many sites today offer some kind of server-side personalisation.

My sort of personalization would be different in one important respect: the
user could get some wysiwyg-like environment where he could play with the
layout of the site until it's completely to his taste. (is this a good idea?
Dunno, but in any case it's different from server side personalization).

Server side personalization works, of course, but it doesn't quite have the
same possibilities as "W3C DOM personalization".

>I'm not sure any web developer would want so much interaction done
>client-side with all the hassle it implies, such as browser-specific
>implementation, etc etc (although the topic of your email is saying exactly
>the contrary, which is hopefully what will happen eventually).

It would have to be hassle-free, sure. It isn't yet practically possible, I
just want a discussion of the theory: is it a good idea, how would one
create such an interface, etc.

>What I don't quite get is why wouldn't a web dev take advantage of
>server-side techonlogies, considering it's so much easier and so much more
>straightforward most of the time...

More straightforward for the web developer, but not necessarily for the
user.

>I think the problem you will run into is that building a effective
>and usable UI is done by somebody who knows what that should be,
>because they have training and experience in the field.

That might be true. And 90% of the users wouldn't use such an interface at
first. But I'm talking about the long term.

>A lot is going to depend on the content too. It seems the idea lends
>itself to a portal of course, but how else would you use it?

A newspaper site, Intranets, maybe even e-commerce applications. Why not?
The only types of sites it wouldn't work for are corporate sites and
entertainment sites, because the exact design is such an important part of
the user experience.

>I must be 'foggy' this morning. But if you're excited about
>this, then I figure there must be something of substance here.

Thanks for your vote of confidence, but I'm not sure if it has substance.
I'm trying to find out.

>Can you take us a few years down the road here and give us
>a story about this new kind of creature, what it's letting
>folks do and where the value is?

No, I can't. That's why I wrote this mail. I want ideas.

>Be able to drag elements around the screen to new positions and
>'save' them there for future visits?  "Hide" elements or push things
>off-screen that they don't want to see?  Cross-page drag-and-drop:
>(I want to see your Investor Relations contact telephone number on
>your main page along with you "deal of the week" .... which today
>are all on separate pages?)   Or something else?

Yes, all valid possibilities. It would depend on the kind of site, but
there's no reason *not* to make such an interface. For Intranets,
especially, I think it would be very valuable.

I created a small form application that allows the user to choose exactly
how many form fields he wants to see. This is the sort of thing I mean:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/domform.html

Anyway, I hope for more ideas and discussion.

--------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
New: CSS Bugs in Internet Explorer 5 on Mac
http://developer.apple.com/internet/css/ie5cssbugs.html
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