Seems that the dtd was causing the height errors: > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd"> removing: "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd" Has fixed the problem in them all apart from nn4 - but no suprise there. It still works in that browser and my pages now validate. Any good info on the use of DTD's? I've read the alistapart article. benjer