Greg I've seemed to recall that the same problem happens when you want to embed a flash movie. Since you must use <object> and <embed> it won't validate. It doesn't that is, until I found this article. http://www.alistapart.com/stories/flashsatay/ It describes how to markup the page and have it work both on IE and NN and *still* validate. Now I suppose you could use the same technique for your real player movies. I haven't tried this, so I can't speak from experience. But it can't hurt to give it a shot. Let me know what happens! Peace be with you. Alexander Garcia Alexander at Garcia.Name -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gregory Wostrel Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 4:25 PM To: Evolt Subject: [thelist] Object/Embed for RealPlayer in XHTML what to do? OK, here is my quandary: I am trying to bring a large, very old style (lots of <font>, <b>, nested tables, no DocTypes etc etc), site into XHTML/CSS compliance. Most of the job is just wading through and redoing. However, there is a large amount of the site that consists of a page that loads with a study guide as text and a lecture playing in an embedded RealPlayer. It works pretty well, but of course what controls it is something like this: <object classid="clsid:CFCDAA03-8BE4-11cf-B84B-0020AFBBCCFA" height="124" width="264" align="left"> <param name="src" value="micah1a.rpm" /> <param name="autostart" value="-1" /> <param name="console" value="clip1" /> <param name="attr" value="value" /> <param name="controls" value="all" /> <embed align="left" height="124" src="media/micah1a.rpm" type="audio/x-pn-realaudio-plugin" width="264" console="clip1" controls="all" autostart="true" attr="value" /> </object> So I have a thorny one left over from the "browser wars". IE understands Object, Netscape needs Embed and the pages as they exist will not validate. We also get a steady trickle of people who have trouble with the audio, but that could be anything. So what to do? I could back off of XHTML and it gets a little better, or I could just not care about the validating. But my conscience nags at me. I am supposed to care, I figure, and I want it to be the best it can be. Any advice from experts? Gregory Wostrel gwcreative http://www.gwcreative.com/ gw at gwcreative.com 401.286.9228 Communications and the Art of Simplicity -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ Evolt.org conference in London, July 25-27 2003. Register today at http://evolt.org.uk For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !