No... :-( I was hoping you'd enlighten me. Now that I think of it, it wouldn't make a difference in INNER JOINS except that it might dictate what order the db engine actually does the filtering, which could make a profound difference depending on the indexes and the percentage of rows to be excluded. I guess a good optimizer would make this a moot point. It seems, though, that in an OUTER join the location of the conditional could make a big difference? Wrong? Right? -joshua ----- Original Message ----- From: "rudy" <rudy937 at rogers.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 10:25 PM > they're equivalent > > have you run them through EXPLAINs for performance differences?