Jeff That's completely over the top. I've been quietly following this discussion from the start, and I am quite interested in what various people have to say, as although I am very experienced with CSS I have a lot of sympathy with Chris and his points - which I feel are very valid. (Notice the actual subject of his email - he was making a point for discussion rather than asking questions per se. You may wish to read more carefully in future!) There are many aspects of CSS that are counter-intuitive, and the W3C themselves admit this, albeit rather uneasily. CSS3 (still in draft) is due to make life easier but there are still a lot of *stupid* things about CSS. I've noticed a few of your replies to people in the past have been rather... shall we say, uncalled for, as I feel everyone deserves to be treated with fairness and respect. If you are to positively contribute to any community, that is something you should know. I've noticed some genuinely helpful messages from you in the past, and I would feel more comfortable if you continued in that direction rather than having a go at people. Who gives you the right? "If you have nothing nice to say - shut up" - an old saying ;) Also, I don't see how this "thread" (we're not on a forum here!) has gone off-topic - we have people debating CSS, and some very good points are being raised (although yes, there are some stupid things being said too). Chris I think you have written with intelligence and respect, and remember not everyone at evolt has the same opinion, which of course makes it such an interesting place :) Joshua I think everything you have said has been spot-on - some great advice given, which I notice is a habit of yours ;) You may find this interesting: http://www.pixy.cz/blogg/clanky/css-3col-layout/ It's a rather nice bit of CSS, and helps get around some of the problems that have been discussed, but not all. The way height is dealt with in CSS (as well as vertical-align and a few other choice properties) is rather bad and does tend to make me pull out my hair at times. Cheers all Dan -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Howden Sent: 10 October 2003 21:16 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] why doth i hate css? let me count the ways. chris, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Chris W. Parker > > M.G.Noriega <mailto:manuel at simplelogica.net> > on Friday, October 10, 2003 11:08 AM said: > > > I'm sure valid points can be made against the CSS specs, let's hope > > they are not so weak and futile as these. > > Now you're throwing insults? Great. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ok, this thread has officially spiraled *completely* offtopic. for starting a thread that appeared to be requesting help, but in hind-sight was a troll, you owe 3 tips. for your snotty response to my reply with genuine help, you owe 1 tip. for this completely useless response to a reply that was a legitimate counter to your comments and *not* a personal attack on you, you owe another 2 tips. that brings your grand total to 6. pay up or shut up. http://lists.evolt.org/index.php?content=listinfo <tip type="css" author=".jeff"> to avoid odd results, make sure your print css template is the last stylesheet declared in the document. </tip> thank you, .jeff ------------------------------------------------------ Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/ Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/ -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !