[thelist] why doth i hate css? let me count the ways.

Shawn K. Quinn skquinn at frogger.kicks-ass.net
Sat Oct 11 18:20:34 CDT 2003

On Saturday 2003 October 11 15:22, Joel D Canfield wrote:
  [I wrote] 
    [Peter-Paul Koch wrote:]
> > > Apply one table, put content divs in it and style these divs. I 
> > > often make sites that way, even though I love CSS.
> >
> > That doesn't mean it's good practice.
> Shawn, do you use CSS for layout when your visitors will be using
> Netscape 4? 

Yes, I do. Netscape Navigator 4.x users still get the content, just not 
with the fancy formatting. Anyone still using Navigator 4.x today 
probably has stylesheets turned off anyway.

The most important thing when making a WWW site is that the content gets 
through, and to realize in the end that CSS is completely optional and 
may be partially or completely overridden by user accessibility 
settings, if it's even used to begin with. (Presentational hints have 
always been suggestions, even when mis-implemented as HTML elements and 

> I'm mystified by your comments. You seem to be arguing that using
> tables for layout is a dead art, and that we should all be using CSS
> wholeheartedly instead.

Yes, that's exactly right. CSS is designed to transform gracefully; 
tables as layout boxes never really were.

> It's a nice dream, and if you limit your layouts, it's achievable, but
> if you're working for real clients in the real world, I just can't see
> how you can deliver.

It's not a dream, it is reality. The 1997 and earlier use of <table> as 
a "make a grid command" is obsolete. We have much better tools now.

Shawn K. Quinn

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