[thelist] making the move from php to asp

Ken Schaefer ken at adOpenStatic.com
Fri Apr 16 10:41:37 CDT 2004

From: "Stephen Caudill" <SCaudill at municode.com>
Subject: RE: [thelist] making the move from php to asp

:: language. The naming conventions make VB easy to
:: read, in the same way that you think [] makes code in
:: other languages look easy to read.
: I said easy to visually scan.  Reading and scanning[1] are two
: very different things.

You also said:
"Ah, sweet semantics. Here, you err in the same way so many
literalists have before. Pray you take the meaning and not the

Whereas you seem to draw a sharp distinction between "read" and "scan", I
was using them interchangeably. So try not to nickpick too much. Just read
what I wrote as if I used the word "scan" instead of the word "read".

In addition, I don't personally look at "thousands of lines of code" at a
time - I use an IDE that saves me from that type of

:: BZZT - ASP.NET involves no client-side runtime -
:: it runs entirely on the server.
: Granted. (I was thinking of .NET windows Apps, which
: are prone to version corruption as the runtime is
: updated. [2])

It certainly didn't seem like you were thinking of that. You seemed to be
thinking about forcing a
"honking huge runtime" download upon all viewers of ASP.NET pages. But, when
you feel the need to put some other derogatory comment in.

I have no idea what you mean by "version corruption" - I certainly didn't
get that from the link you cited. If you knew anything about ASP.NET you'd
know that backwards compatibility/no breaking changes is one of the top
priorities of the development team. There's a bit of a rant on that site -
obtuse error messages, and so forth - but that's another issue.

:: In any case, the runtime is a whole 17 MB.
: Not everyone[3] has the luxury of a fat pipe to
: download over. 17MB on dialup is an eternity.

Which is why the runtime is redistributable. You don't get your users to
download the runtime. You bundle it with your Winforms application (since
Winforms apps are the only things that require the runtime locally), and you
have it installed as part of your setup routine.

::: Maybe because we have theological differences with the language?
:: BZZT - ASP.NET isn't a "language". There are over 25 CLS
:: compliant languages you can choose from for developing ASP.Net
:: applications.

Ah, sweet semantics. Here, you err in the same way so many
literalists have before. Pray you take the meaning and not the
letter.  ASP.NET was used as an umbrella term for all languages
operating under its Common Language Runtime.  Would your prefer
I list each CLS compliant language everytime I refer to it?

Well, for starters CLS isn't the same as CLR. But let's leave that aside.
How could you have a theological diference with *every* language that you
could use? You don't like VB, and you seem to express a preference for C
style languages, so what's your beef with Managed C++? Or JScript.Net? (or
if you prefer more esoteric languages: COBOL.NET or Eiffel.NET)?

What language is it that you use that has such significant differences to
one of the .Net ones?

::: Maybe because we don't like the Forms-Based design
::: that the IDE makes so darn condusive?
:: ASP.NET has an IDE?!?
: I believe the accepted, professional choice of IDE's for
: developing in the ASP.NET CLR is Visual Studio .NET. Heard of
: it? I'm also aware you can write .NET in notepad. Does this
: constitute an IDE? NO.

Well, if you talk to Macromedia, they'll tell you that they have an IDE for
developing ASP.NET too. So, if you believe them, the Visual Studio.Net isn't
the only IDE in town.

That said, an event-based programming ideology has nothing to do with Visual
Studio.Net - it is not the IDE that pushes you towards using postbacks. So I
don't understand why you are linking "forms based design" with Visual

Furthermore I don't really understand what you mean by "forms-based design".
You have your contents, and you stick form tags around it. I don't see
what's so difficult about that.

:: Could I suggest that you get a clue before you post something
:: like this in a place where you'd be seriously ridiculed?
:"Here there be trolls"
: And here, Ken, is where you simply become small and
: offensive. Can I suggest you keep a civil tongue in your head?

I beg your pardon? You peddle untruths, technical inaccuracies, and outright
rubbish. You are the one that like to use phrases like "piss me off". You
are the one that engages in hypocrisy. The "high moral ground/holier than
thou" attitude doesn't appeal to me much.

: I am hardly interested in getting into a Religious debate about
: who's language is better.

Fine - stick to the things you know something about, and stop criticising
that which you, manifestly, don't know much about.

: ...there are any myriad of reasons why a solitary individual
: might not make that transition. Mine Being:
: "I just don't like it." So nyah!

Yeah, whatever.


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