thanks to Tim / Anthony / Andy using the box model hack ive got the widths working ok now: http://www.manderstam.com/preview/ only problem i have now is getting it to validate ok on transitional : http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.manderstam.com%2Fpreview%2F because i have an "h1" inside an "a" - if i put the h1 outside to make it validate, the a the hover state doesnt color the whole box. it is possible to have whole box to change color on hover and validate ok? thanks Alex