On Thu, 2004-07-08 at 13:10, chris at martiantechnologies.com wrote: > Standards may philosophically be a life thing, but in the context of > this list they *are* just a web thing. Tom's TrueGreen site is an > example to everyone of a well designed and executed project lifecycle. > Having said this, many of us work on much, much larger projects on > which we inherit a massive codebase. Every change that is required can > either be made by one person in a day or so without standards > compliance, or the suggestion can be made to recode the entire site > taking 9 man months, after which a testing and stabilisation phase > should be gone through. The new site is then launched (with the risks > of un-fixed bugs), with the net improvement to the customer being zero. > The best you can hope for in the real world is to gradually improve > your code snippets' standards compliance in the vain hope that other > coders pick up on this and do the same. The system as a whole is not > affected, but at least as a developer you can allow yourself a smug > sense of self-satisfaction - which seemingly is the major motivator for > many web developers these days. I agree with you on many points: migrating to a standards-based solution from tag soup *is* expensive, and sometimes difficult. I would take issue with your assertion that there is no user-level improvement: how many times have we been told that slow-loading pages are a massive turn-off for users? Web standards bring faster-loading and faster-rendering pages along with the slew of developer-level advantages. There has been a bit of a backlash against standards lately, possibly due to certain standards-advocates' relentless "validate or be damned" approach that doesn't recognise that many people have a lot of interia in their organisations and web sites to overcome, and that they're getting there (slowly, sometimes). I just wish that these purists would give credit where it's due and encourage people not to give up, 'cos we're all working towards a better web. Tim  http://www.molly.com/2004/06/11/standards-backlash/ -- Tim Beadle <tim.beadle at iop.org> Institute of Physics Registered charity No. 293851 76 Portland Place, London, W1B 1NT, England IOP Publishing Limited Registered in England under Registration No 467514. Registered Office: Dirac House, Temple Back, Bristol BS1 6BE England This e-mail message has been checked for the presence of computer viruses.