Since the original question asked for no DIV usage, but then you talk about positioning content that is within the DIV I'm confused too... However, this little bit of info may help. <DIV> will contain stuff and can be acted upon using 'block' elements <SPAN> will allow you to style (but not position) stuff without altering the positioning. It acts as an 'inline' element. CSS can only manipulate objects within HTML. It doesn't have containers of it's own. So a 'pure' CSS design MUST use DIV or SPAN or both since you need some kind of tag to apply the CSS to. Practical sense will tell you too... that once in a while you've got to throw in a table here and there to avoid excessive coding of positioning. I try not to use them, but once in a while you just have to for 'interior' positioning of something like mixed text and form elements that need to align by type. Best of luck, Rose ----------------- c:/dos c:/dos/run run/dos/run >> ----------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist- > bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Tony Crockford > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 9:34 AM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] Total separation of content and presentation > > At 14:01 on Tuesday, 21 Dec 2004, Ellen Kanner wrote: > > > We've been searching far and wide without (complete) success, and it may > > not be possible. But, before we give in and use divs instead of tables, > > we thought we'd ask if anyone has worked on this. > > > > Can you help? > > CSS can only position elements on a page. usually you group a number of > paragraph elements in a div and position that. > > I'm not sure I'm clear on how you plan to position groups of elements > without using divs. I'm also unclear as to why you'd want to do this? > > a simply structured html document: > > <div id="header"></div> > <div id="nav"></div> > <div id="content"></div> > <div id="footer"></div> > > makes more sense than trying to layout individual paragraphs, links and > lists. > > perhaps you could explain in more detail what you hope to acheive? > > ;o) > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt !