> No I hadn't before. Thanks for that, but they seem to be simple column > layouts, like all the other CSS layout sites. I know how to do column > layouts in CSS already thanks, and I use them when I can, but often I get > given a layout to do that is not a simple column layout, Like what? A circular or triangular layout? What else but column layouts are there on the web? Can you give us an example? > or is a column > layout that requires a background colour to go all the way to the bottom of > the content and needs a graphic to line up with the bottom of the content or > something like that, and that's when I return to tables. I personally found that to be a real task with Firefox and tables. Clever cutting of your images, fading into background colours and repeating them makes it quite easy to do it with CSS though - as positioning background images does work in elements but can get tricky with table cells. Again, it may be that the design is just too strict for its own good - there are designs that also force you to bloat your code with extra DIVs and spans. The times of being able to define a height and pixel gutters are IMHO over - especially when you also take accessibility and font resizing into consideration. Here I go again: If your Design requires you to jump through hoops in your HTML and CSS there are several possible reasons: a) You are using the wrong techniques in your CSS (some older tutorials are simply outdated) b) You have to support very old browsers c) You have to use a backend system that meddles badly with your HTML d) The design is just not flexible enough to be a web design - although it may be a stuning print design > oh and BTW, my table layout pages validate to HTML strict. And I do > everything else with CSS - it is just layout that I often do with CSS. This validates HTML strict: <a href="bla.html" style="color:#999">link<span class="bla">cool</span></a><br> <a href="bla.html" style="color:#666">link</a><br> <a href="bla.html" style="color:#333">link</a><br> <a href="bla.html" style="color:#000"><b>link</b></a><br> <a href="bla.html" style="color:#336">link</a><br> <a href="bla.html" style="color:#669">link</a><br> <a href="bla.html" style="color:#99c">link</a><br> a) Does it make sense? b) Do you want to maintain it two months down the line?