Info on player penetration: http://www.adobe.com/products/player_census/flashplayer/version_penetration. html You note there's not a technical person on staff. More than likely, the decision to use Flash for the bulletin board box was to enable someone to update it by editing a text file. Is there anything unusable about the soccer site? The new window without navigation is a bummer ... would have been better as a small pop-up. Other than that, the site seems to accomplish getting the info to the user just fine. -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Bill Moseley Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 12:35 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Flash Required Is Flash something that should be considered universal at this point? Do new PCs and Macs come with Flash installed or is it still a user-download? I'm asking about a general Internet web site, not something for an intranet. This is somewhat of a pre-coffee-induced rant, but... I'm on the 100% validation, progressive enhancement, accessibility, separation of concerns, etc., bandwagon. I'm not sure about you, but in my daily life it's hard not to notice websites that don't follow those ideals. Especially when the sites were produced for organizations I'm familiar with and I know don't have the technical staff in-house to know current web "best practices." Today it was my kid's soccer club's brand new website: http://www.rockridgesoccer.org/ I like the layout fine, but does that design really require that all text is an image or a flash object (i.e. "Bulletin Board")? And I wonder how a competent designer can implement a site with so many validation errors (although they are not what I'd consider serious errors for the most part). Is validation just not as important as I consider it? Another site for an organization I'm involved with was just released with tables nested ten deep and 175 validation errors and very simple drop down menus using flash. But it looks (mostly) ok in IE so the organization considers it just fine. Are these consciousness decisions by designers after weighing all the options or just designers trapped in the 90s? Whew. Ok, off to Peet's for some caffeine. -- Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !