Tom: Agree on the target user base for Contribute. However, how difficult would it have been to have added a menu option (they could have buried it 7 levels deep if it would have made them feel better) to Version 4 that would have allowed a simple Source View/Edit? Often, we get requested to provide fixes that require HTML edits by end users just to make the layout work---often when requested at 4:59 PM by an angry corporate executive on his way out for the weekend. 'Libraries' are somewhat ok, but not as effective as also having ability to use HTML if that extra and immediate tweak is necessary. There is a base of users we see often that seem to know a *some* HTML these days. Not enough to use Dreamweaver or apply a BoxModelFloatBugHack or work with recordsets or whatever, but enough to get frustrated when they cannot get into the HTML to insert a DIV or TABLE tag or something on the fly when Contribute breaks the CSS layout. FrontPage, while earlier editions ruined HTML with proprietary tag junk, *somewhat* got it right with the 2003 edition. Yes, it still is crapola for anybody to take seriously, but is still one of our main tools to still develop Newsletters---as the dumbing down the FP does seems to be an advantage in that medium. Now that that FP has been discontinued, it will be interesting to see if Expressions will be any better. Most clients of ours get impatient with Contribute's slow loading 'Publish' mode from 'Preview' and switch to FrontPage, not for its W3C Web Standards, CSS authoring, or XHTML rendering skills, but rather because you can right-click and quickly publish and/or save a page in an environment (a la MS Word) that they are already used to. -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Moore Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 6:33 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] The quagmire of CMS - Contribute Christopher, I'm guessing you just don't get who this product was intended for. People who don't want to see or deal with html. Thats why theres no way to view html inside Contribute. You can designate it to open pages in another program if you want.. However, Contribute is meant to allow non-technical users update content on static pages. This is something needed for large companies and govt agencies, schools, where there is a lot of brochure type info on their sites they have to maintain. There is a way to insert snippets. You load them into the a "Library" directory via Dreamweaver and then users can access them via the insert menu under "shared assets". Where the program also shines is when it's used with the Contribute Publishing Server that allows enterprise admin of users. That means one login password combo on company networks. I can use the CPS along with Dreamweaver templates to limit certain groups of users access to specific directories and also specific sections on pages, limiting the chance that someone will break something. Also the program does a decent job of working between Microsoft products, and takes out a lot of the MS crap when you cut and paste from Word. And really I can't believe anyone would recommend Front Page after I saw, years ago, what it did to the code. I get On 5/2/07, Rikter Support <support at rikter.com> wrote: > Contribute is a nightmare---worst product I've seen in years from > Macromodobe. It fails to use CSS properly. It also fails to allow any > method to insert HTML snippets easily or access the HTML. I'd rather have > my clients use a copy of FrontPage---and have taught them to use that editor > (more like MS Word which they are familiar with) to make basic edits. > Really. That's how bad Contribute is. Version 2 to 3 was just a number > change only. No real difference. > > And it's terribly slow. Avoid this product. > > Christopher > > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Bob Meetin > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 10:55 AM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] The quagmire of CMS - Contribute > > I've been avoiding Contribute for years. It's been lurking/looming in > the background, however with one of my new clients I now have to come to > grips with it. I used dreamweaver some a couple years back, but now I > no longer use it for design/development, just as an FTP tool. > > Current situation - I have to set up a site such that the client can > update it through Contribute. I rather expected some problem, but > really it totally breaks up in contribute, similar in dreamweaver. I > made sure that the stylesheets, etc are referenced correctly, but > suspect that it is simply a problem with perhaps floats/columns or other > not rendering correctly with a tableless design. I'm shooting in the > dark here. > > I can convert to tables and undoubtedly make it work. With Contribute > being the requirement, does anyone have alternative suggestions? Is > Contribute designed to work on CSS/tableless layouts but perhaps > something skewed in the design? > > They don't want an alternative solution such as updating sections with > PHP forms. There is no database. > > -Bob > > Ben Glassman wrote: > > Up until recently the company I work for was using Contribute as a > solution > > for clients to edit their static web pages. We recently made the switch to > a > > full CMS (we are using a modified version of MODx, which I highly > > recommend). > > > > Contribute was fine if you want to have the user simply edit the content > > area of pages using a WYSIWYG application with an integrated FTP client. > > However, it has limitations in terms of adding navigation, as others have > > mentioned. > > > > My primary complaint against Contribute was that it was another browser > that > > you had to support, and one with very little in the way of documentation > for > > CSS rendering issues. Therefore it could be time consuming to get pages to > > render correctly. Pages would also render correctly in browsing mode, but > > once Contribute switched to Edit mode they would break, sometimes in ways > > that made the content invisible (and hence unable to be edited). It also > > (perhaps they have fixed this now) does not parse PHP/ASP includes (but > > seemed to work with SSI), which meant that I had to structure my code > > differently, leaving the main divs in each page rather than in the > include, > > or the framework would always break in edit mode. > > > > In my eyes, Contribute is a simplfied version of a program like > Dreamweaver > > which is fine for small static sites but if you are building larger sites > > with more dynamic content (calendars, photo galleries, databases, forums, > > etc.) a full featured CMS can be much more flexible. > > > > Ben > > > >  http://www.modxcms.com > > > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !