Martin Me: Where did you find out about this stuff? Matt: [...] on CRM projects ok. on the right foot now - a-ha ... the real world, not the WWW. suits n stuff, closed doors, cars, insurance, indemnities, lawyers, the white collar world, the list is endless. I really ought to join in one day. where should I start? /rhetorical > While there's no teacher like experience, and true, our sales > processes do tend to be at the complex end of the scale, the > principles are pretty much the same wherever. I think I tend to learn from (sad I know) prescriptions, templates, rules of thumb and try to apply when the situation arises; otherwise without anyone actually giving a damn I more or less deliberately fall into time honoured traps just to see where they are; not something everyone would try; bit silly I think, in hindsight. > http://www.pmi.org/Marketplace/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?GMProduct=00100035801 > http://www.pmi.org/Marketplace/Pages/default.aspx?Filter=PMIPublications ok, will try them out. not until all of this sinks in, ofcourse! [..] the basics of any good sales process [..] > 1) Good relationship with key stakeholders - particularly the one whose budget you'll be spending +1 > 2) Good value for the client - ultimately something that supports their > business needs. So you have to *know* what those needs are, and > ideally the strategy/direction behind them +1 > 3) Good value for the vendor - nobody wins if either party is being > screwed. Note that this doesn't just mean money (although I've had to ask > myself the "Are we actually *going* to get paid for this?" before), but > also is it reputation-enhancing? Will it develop the individual(s) who > are doing the work? +1 totally. Ive turned down one recently because it would, as you say, would just feel like I would get screwed and *another* that I've left to them since just the tone of voice at the outset instantly suggested we were dealing with a "we need a lot for a little" type outfit. IT WOULD APPEAR that the wait I have currently have been treated to is of the "we are waiting for better offers but if we cant get better then we will have to go with yours"-type-wait. > 4) Is it realistic? Are you going to be able to deliver on not only > the specifics but also the business needs using the expected method within the > time/cost/quality boundaries that the client is expecting? Is the > scope defined? Or if not, is it agreed that it's not and a method for > working with that agreed? > ok i guess, sure. tired now. [5)] check assumptions! ok. *****, thats alot of work for £500. Thats what I usually think in terms of to get someone on the WWW with a quality presence. I will say I what I think "quality" is at another hour. Anway, Im not sure if my attention span would allow for the £500- £5000 range of project. oh hum. /damn_I_wish_I_didnt_have_A.D.D. Thanks for the all the advice Martin A.