[thelist] Fulltime to freelance

sbeam sbeam at onsetcorps.net
Sat Nov 29 08:26:00 CST 2008

On Wednesday 26 November 2008 14:40, Hassan Schroeder wrote:
> My earlier comment was in response to someone's suggestion that
> Agile means developers spontaneously create features without any
> input from the client. And that's simply wrong.

I was exaggerating for dramatic effect, only because I am often tempted to do 
that. So yes, it is the wrong approach. However that is not to say it doesn't 
happen - a flawed (ie real-world) implementation of Agile/XP could look like 
a simple relaxation of discipline - that, it seems to me, is the central 
challenge of it: always producing something useful, beautiful, on-time and 
on-budget, with few fences.

> > I think the consultative approach should be imperative.
> Without it, it's not Agile. :-)

We can probably agree that even in a hardcore BDUF approach one should listen 
to and consult with client/GoalOwner not only initially but as deliverables 
come down the pipe. Iterations can happen either way, it's just a matter of 
getting sign-off on each so the checks get cut.

I think this has been a great thread, and we are all pretty close probably in 
how things get done in the real world, at least us freelancing/client-service 
types. There are are certain Agile methods that you can utilize depending on 
your situation (although cherry-picking would be frowned upon by diehards). 
In fact, with long-term clients where we are maintaining and updating 
existing apps, there is a large degree of mutual trust and understanding of 
their business. In these cases our practices actually look very agile 
(small-a, with constraints based on the fact that there is no shared office). 
Maybe with the right team and the right client who is inclined to put a lot 
of trust in you, you can even sell it from the get-go - that is an 
interesting possibility I had never seriously considered until now. So thanks 
for that -


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