[thelist] What's a Programmer To Do?

Barney Carroll barney.carroll at gmail.com
Wed Apr 1 11:33:31 CDT 2009


Aha!

That's very interesting — thanks Olivier for explaining it to me. The way I
read their pitch was that Javascript and the DOM would somehow be convenient
for core back-end functions (which I didn't understand at all). When you put
it that way, it's a lot easier to understand. Without simplified frameworks
for general usage (as you say, standardised models for back-end sensitive
validation etc would be quite useful) or any truly ambitious web app work on
my end I can't see this being immediately useful for core development but
I'm glad for the insight.



Regards,
Barney Carroll
Web designer & front-end developer

web: www.clickwork.net

mobile: +44 (0) 7594 506 381
home: +44 (0) 118 975 0020

twitter: @barneycarroll


2009/4/1 Olivier Percebois-Garve <percebois at gmail.com>

> Hi Barny,
>
> Jaxer is a server running on javascript. Server-side javascript.
> With js and js libraries, DOM manipulation is very easy, whilst its
> impossible or cumbersome with other server-side languages.
> Jaxer can be used with other server-side languages. for instance a request
> is processed by php, then output is passed to jaxer, then jaxer sends its
> to
> the client.
> So you can imagine doing some DOM manipulation after having processed your
> page with php.
>
> Buts that's for a quick use of Jaxer. IMO there is nothing ridiculous at
> having js on the server-side.
>
> See in the recent years, a lot of development, a lot of logic has moved
> from
> the server to the client. Off-line webapps have appeard (with google gears,
> AIR).
> A lot of logic needs to be the same both on the client-side and on the
> server-side. Forms validation is the easy exemple.
> Having the same language server-side and client-side, its easy to just use
> the same functions on both sides.
> A lot of development time is gained, and there is more consistency in the
> whole application.
>
> Personnally I believe that server-side javascript hype will be bigger than
> the RoR hype.
>
> RoR has been attractive to a lot of webdevs, but it still has a real
> learning curve despite all the "its a natural language" discourse.
> Quite a few people have had difficult experiences with RoR, so the hype has
> gone a bit down now.
>
> IMO Server-side javascript is gonna to have a smaller learning curve.
>
> I think its not really ready for production use now, but its good enough to
> play with it.
> There is also other options than jaxer for server-side javascript, but I
> dont know enough about them.
>
> I forsee server-side js to be huge by the end of 2010, so I am learning it
> now in order to be good at it when there is high demand.
> Of course this is a bet I am doing.
>
> Olivier
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Barney Carroll <barney.carroll at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Olivier,
> >
> > What exactly is Jaxer? From their site, I just got really confused. How
> are
> > my 'DOM skills' going to help me build a decent back-end? Speaking as
> > somebody who can deal with just about everything front-end but struggles
> > with back-end and proper OO programming, the idea seems incredibly
> > tantalising but also a bit ridiculous…
> >
> > Regards,
> > Barney Carroll
> > Web designer & front-end developer
> >
> > web: www.clickwork.net
> >
> > mobile: +44 (0) 7594 506 381
> > home: +44 (0) 118 975 0020
> >
> > twitter: @barneycarroll
> >
> >
> > 2009/4/1 Jon Molesa <rjmolesa at consoltec.net>
> >
> > > I understand the pain and am personally moving away from Wordpress to
> > > CakePHP for the same reasons.  Upgrading is such a hassle and I can't
> > > run multiple WP installs off one code base.  With Cake I have the core
> > > in a system-wide location, apps in another, and html in the public
> > > folder.  I can symlink a specific cake version to just cake, or keep
> > > certain sites running on a specific version of cake if I like.  Or I
> can
> > > upgrade them all by just replacing the core folder, in my case recreate
> > > a symlink.  It's nice, clean, simple, scalable and I get to write the
> > > site/application specific code while not reinventing the wheel with
> each
> > > project.  I get the level of control I'm seeking as well.  IMHO, Drupal
> > > is not a framework and there's a huge deal of effort spent to my
> > > customizable user interfaces.  I don't understand that really.  Once an
> > > interface is set up to add/edit/delete data the only time the interface
> > > should change is if the data definition changes.  It just seems like a
> > > lot of configuration that I'd rather not do.  That specific issue make
> > > it difficult to deploy Drupal code to an already running live site.
>  All
> > > the manual configuration that was performed on the development side has
> > > to then be duplicated on the live site.  Drupal is nice to get a CMS up
> > > and running quickly, but in my experience, it's more work than
> necessary
> > > long-term.
> > >
> > > *On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 03:22:44PM +0200 Fred Jones <
> > > fredthejonester at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:22:44 +0200
> > > > From: Fred Jones <fredthejonester at gmail.com>
> > > > Subject: [thelist] What's a Programmer To Do?
> > > > To: "thelist at lists.evolt.org" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> > > >
> > > > I started off some years ago programming in Perl and then switched to
> > > > PHP (not on purpose really). Of course HTML/CSS/JS/SQL are "par for
> > > > the course" in my business, which is making small to medium sized
> > > > sites for individuals, small businesses and NPOs. I then fell into
> > > > Drupal (not on purpose again) and have been working with that for
> > > > maybe 2 years. Before that I did a half a year with CakePHP.
> > > >
> > > > I am getting mildly tired of Drupal. One reason is that I just
> learned
> > > > about the upgrade and EOL issue (Drupal 5 will be EOL'd later this
> > > > year meaning no more security updates. I didn't realize that when I
> > > > built over a dozen sites with it in the past year or so). Second is
> > > > that Drupal is a lot about configuration and using available module
> > > > code and less about just programming. I miss programming. I studied
> it
> > > > in University and I like it but I don't do *so* much of it now. :(
> > > >
> > > > Could also just be that I am getting burned out of the same (Drupal)
> > > > project I have been working on for almost a year. :)
> > > >
> > > > I was thinking of trying to switch back to CakePHP b/c the work there
> > > > is inherently mostly just coding. But a friend said to me that, in
> his
> > > > experience, the market is 3 to 1 in favor of requests for Drupal work
> > > > than Cake work. I would also consider Ruby on Rails I suppose, but
> > > > there would be more of a learning curve there.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I'm just wondering what people think--I *may* be ready for a
> > > change. :)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> > > > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
> > > >
> > > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> > > > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> > > > Workers of the Web, evolt !
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jon Molesa
> > > rjmolesa at consoltec.net
> > > if you're bored or curious
> > > http://rjmolesa.com
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> > > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
> > >
> > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
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> > > Workers of the Web, evolt !
> > >
> > --
> >
> > * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
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> >
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
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> > Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
> --
>
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
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>



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