[thelist] Server hacked?

Paul Bennett Paul.Bennett at mch.govt.nz
Mon Jul 13 15:32:54 CDT 2009

OK, I'm going to have to call BS here.

Oddly enough, the originator of this wee digression (a Mr Dan P. Burke)
has since become very quiet (anyone for troll?) and although I'm sure
we'd all get along fine in the same room, I have to take issue with some
of your statements, Jim.

1. The original response
(http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20090706/198317.html) bagged
PHP for the reason that a) PHP is popular and hence b) not everyone
writes good code when they are starting out.

This argument can be extended to any programming / markup language which
is new to someone. I can certainly state the my PHP, Javascript, HTML
and CSS has markedly improved over the last 9 or so years.

2. In your response
(http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20090706/198325.html ), Jim
you stated:

"Not that this question was directed at me, but I could suggest any of  
the following:

- Java (Spring, Struts, JavaServer Faces)
- Perl (Catalyst, raw mod_perl)
- Python (Django, Pylons, Zope, etc.)
- Ruby (Rails, Merb, Sinatra)

You can certainly write insecure code in any language, but any of  
these will give you a nicer development environment than PHP."

You don't mention *better* languages, Jim, you mention _frameworks_ and
(what I'd call) "helper packages" for other languages - an important
distinction IMHO.

This argument can be extended to _include_ PHP, as there are some
fantastic frameworks[1][2][3][4], any of which will give you a better
development environment, more productive programming, and improved
security - basically true for any good framework for any programming
language (web or not).

3. In your last statement, Jim, you state:

" ...I might rather point  
out that my posting was based entirely on my highly subjective  
opinions of using various environments over several years and that you  
should form your own opinions. Remember, you can do equivalent tasks  
with any equivalently powerful tools; you'd be best served trying them  
out for yourself and experiencing their relative differences firsthand."

Whch negates the point you tried to make earlier - that other languages
will  give you a "nicer development environment than PHP". I'm sorry,
but I find it irritating when people make baseless, inflammatory
statements and then try to walk away and place the burden of proof on
others - that is intellectually dishonest.

Play language wars all you like, but for both of you, your argument is

I personally think tips are owed ;)

[1] http://www.cakephp.org
[2] http://www.codeigniter.com
[3] http://www.silverstripe.org < a full featured CMS along with an MVC
[4] http://www.drupal.org < a full featured, extensible CMS with modular
architecture and a full API 

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