Steven / Evolt users > I said exactly what I intended to say: best practice SEO is to design for users first, SEs second. Right. hadnt realised that a SE think so much of the user - I tend to think of SEO as page optimisation but its obviously alot more than that. thanks for clearing up that point for me. im a little behind since becoming a father - a year or so out of the internet game and it feels like 10 years away!! back to the main topic, do you guys think is it best to tell the SE that the site has changed rather than waiting for it to discover a change? Using the Push / pull terminology [ http://bit.ly/push-pull- ], and if the SE is the consumer of the information, the site owner / webmaster is the producer then I'd imagine telling the consumer would be a "push" and the consumer discovering itself would be a "pull". The side issue here is that if a push is better then is it actually possible to tell all the SE worth anything that the site has changed, and so to alter which files it lists? i know the G. webmaster tools allows something like that but dunno if MSN, ASK or Yahoo allow a producer push.