[Javascript] THIS JAVASCRIPT LIST IS A SPAM!

Mon Apr 14 13:38:21 CDT 2003

>|-----Original Message-----
>|From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
>|[mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Hyper X
>|Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 12:33 PM
>|To: [JavaScript List]
>|Subject: [Javascript] THIS JAVASCRIPT LIST IS A SPAM!
>|
>|THIS JAVASCRIPT LIST IS A SPAM!
>|
>|Please do not encourage this list.
>|
>|The list moderator is stealing all the email addresses
>|from other groups and subscribing without permission.

The email addresses where from the JavaScript membership database on the 
Yahoo side of this list. I've explained this before, I've explained it more 
than once. The membership lists I merged together were both from the same 
list, a list that I own.

On eGroups the JavaScript list was merely being "mirrored" there, people 
could not join the JavaScript list via eGroups, they could only view posts 
via a Web interface and also the archives. When Yahoo Groups bought 
eGroups, they, _without asking me_, changed things so that people could 
also "subscribe" via Yahoo, acted as if the list was being hosted by Yahoo. 
Giving the list a split personality, one side of which I no longer had any 
control over (could not help people unsubscribe, change list settings to 
reflect list settings on the other half, etc).

Why would I take addresses from other groups and subscribe without 
permission? What would that gain for me? I get no money from having new 
members, and a larger list means more of my spare time to administer, 
including dealing with irate folks. So where is the benefit for me? None. 
Zero. Zilch.

For those that missed this the first few times:

Over 2 years ago when eGroups (which was just archiving JavaScript list 
postings) was bought out by Yahoo! Groups, Yahoo, _without my permission_, 
basically usurped the list, made it appear that it was being hosted by 
Yahoo/eGroups. Yahoo also did not give me any access to my own list on the 
Yahoo side. So if any of the 900+ members of the JavaScript list that were 
on the Yahoo side of the list had any problems with their list membership, 
I could never be of help to them. The membership list I brought over from 
the Yahoo side of this list, is the membership of this list. People had 
either signed up year ago and forgot (their email set to nomail by 
themselves, or by Yahoo! when their email had a momentary bouncing 
problem), or someone signed them up (not my fault), or they got issued an 
email address from their company - the previous owner of that email 
addresses had signed up to the list. I have NOT grabbed email addresses 
from any other list. Makes no sense for me to do it, as I said above, there 
is no benefit for me, none. Only extra work, extra headache.

I repeatedly tried to get Yahoo to fix the situation. Finally I got someone 
to respond last week. They gave me access to the usurped side of the list. 
However, they now turned it back to mirroring and so all the people that 
had signed up to the list and were able to post via the Yahoo side (which 
was forwarding their posts to the real list address), were no longer able 
to post to the list. There was no way for me to send out a post to them to 
let them know what was happening (yes, I tried). I unsubscribed those that 
looked to have their membership disabled because of too many bounces. And 
then merged the two membership halves together. And then deleted the Yahoo 
side (since the older parts of the archives were being deleted by Yahoo 
anyway as the archives on Yahoo has a 64 MB limit, thus the archives of the 
list on its real home server contained more posts now).

Two problems occurred:

1) there were 6 bad addresses that just bounced and bounced and kept on 
bouncing like some perpetual ping pong machine. I got over 2,000 bounced 
messages. Took me forever to get through those.  My apologies for that. I 
figured there'd be some bounces, but not 2,000. Why those 6 bad addresses 
didn't have a bad bounce history on Yahoo! Groups is beyond me.

2) Unfortunately, since I was unable to access the usurped side for over 
two years, some folk had set their accounts to nomail and they forgot about 
the list, or at the company they worked at they were given the email 
address of a previous worker (a few companies do that, believe it or no) 
who had signed up to the list unbeknownst to the new owner of the email 
address, or maybe someone else signed them up without their knowing. My 
apologies to those people.

On top of this all, LA Tech has upgraded the list serv software, and I'm 
working on learning the new features and functions and settings.

Thanks to the folks who sent me mature, civil and even supportive emails. I 
was pleasantly surprised to see that the positive emails outnumbered the 
negative ones almost 3:1. I believe in the importance of this list, I am 
not doing this for money, and any time administering is out of my spare 
time and so I never intend to cause grief for the members, or to 
forcibly/secretively sign up people to the list (what would that gain for 
me? I get no money from having new members, and a larger list means more of 
my spare time to administer).

For the others who were very hateful and juvenile in their emails to me, 
sometimes despite all good efforts, bad stuff happens in life. The list 
will stand back up from this trip, and be the useful and important resource 
to JavaScripters that it has been for these many years. I now can help all 
members of the list, and not just half of them, and I've learned even more 
about list administration and so you've gotten an even more experienced 
list administrator because of all this.

Now if you have a problem with this, unsubscribe: 
https://lists.latech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript and scroll down to the 
bottom. If that doesn't work for whatever reasons, then email me and I will 
unsubscribe you. I usually am able to unsub people the same day, often 
within minutes of my getting their email.

TTFN,
David

Director of Integrated Technology
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University
Carson Taylor Hall, Rm. 130
Adams Street
(PO Box 3179)
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: (318) 257-4772
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu
c3.latech.edu
catalyst.latech.edu
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