[Theforum] (was) let's kill it

Marlene Bruce marlene at members.evolt.org
Wed Apr 17 20:47:35 CDT 2002

Hey Adrian,


Um, I guess I'd like to officially state that I'm not going to pursue
splitting up admin into other lists any more. I do see that it
doesn't really solve anything long-term, at least not from a
big-picture vantage point. It might turn things down to a simmer, but
that's about it.

You state:

>i've repeatedly asked for the ability to help out with mailing list
>admin, and not had it re-granted after having helped out in the
>distant past... others have been given access that i haven't seen
>here or much elsewhere... i should be able to get that access
>because i have done it, and i've been here, and i'll do it well...

This is because evolt.org isn't really a community run entity. It has
all of the appearances of one, but really it's become (or even
remained) a "privileged access" organization. We original admin
members (the ones still around) who don't have access or have had our
access denied are really remnants of an old idea that's been shoved

That old idea was to create a web site by and for the web community.

Evolt.org started out being for the web community, by a few people.
Then we discussed opening things up to meet our original goal, so it
was not just for the people but *by* them too. That's where theforum
came in, to help deconstruct admin and open the running of evolt to
whomever wanted to help.

But that intention was never realized.

Part of the barrier was because to have something run by many, you
have to have organization. Martin and others have been beating their
heads against organization resistance for months (at least).

By opening things up to many, it served (in effect if not by design)
to confuse the issue, add a lot more noise, and keep the people
really in control STILL in control.

Dan, if you're reading this, I'm not against you. I'm for evolt in
the way we initially envisioned, all 20+ of the founders.

>why won't this happen?  because it doesn't happen that way now...
>we have people who aren't on admin setting policy will-nilly,
>eschewing the input (if even asking for it) of other founders of
>this organization...

I think I mentioned fascism in another email.

>the flaw is not with the group here, it's with the process of
>handing out access and control, a policy that has long since been
>taken from here and made into a closed policy... it is fundamentally
>flawed and in direct opposition to the founding of evolt.org...

Our options are:
1. Play by the current rules.
2. Change the rules.
3. Play another game.

>IOW, if this gets me the ability to help out as i want, then go for
>it, it's just another list i have to sort...

I want you to have an ability to help out. I want that for all of us.


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