aardvark wrote: >>i dont mind it no, if i did, i wouldn't pony up. i hardly feel like >>we're begging for donations either. i also don't feel like we're on > > based on your push last month, i thought we *were* begging for > donations... hence the paypal, mouse pads, and other chatter about > funding... if that's not the case, why are we even bothering? i should have said 'i wouldn't have'. anywho. i'm pushing to make evolt self sustaining, yes. paypal has always been there, its just easier to use and explained now. mouse pads are a purchase, not so much a "I'm just donating" thing. > what if you don't like the new structure we're all creating here? > then do you keep paying every month to fund something you don't like? i've been working on our new structure for about 2 months now, so err.. i think i'll like it. >>i'm seriously trying to get us self sustaining adrian, and i think >>thats evident, and a first step with these mousepads. i *KNOW* its not >>the final answer, but its a step in the right direction. > > so, how many steps are we going to take? how much of our time > creating and managing these little enterprises that aren't driven by > real market demand? people aren't buying mouse pads because they > need or even want mouse pads, they're buying them because they expect > the money will go to support evolt.org... umm, well i'm trying to take one step right now. at a time. or something like that. its taken me about a month this so far, and hopefully can pick up steam if/when more people get on board with other ideas like a referal. what is 'real market demand'? like i said, i know its not the final answer, but i'm trying to take a step in the right direction.. *shrug* >>if the 85 people on this list *alone* all just give $10 a month, we're >>self-sustaining _period_ and you can tell me to get lost if thats all >>i'm good for, which i'd like to think i'm not ;) as it is, and i >>disappointed to report, only like six people have donated financially >>in the last two months. (and thats not to say everyone else is evil or >>doesn't love evolt, just some perspective) it also fills my heart with >>joy to see someone like hugh (not to point anyone out) blair willing >>to throw $100 for hardware/hosting. > > > two responses to this... > > - recognizing donations by individual people does exactly what you > want to avoid with corp sponsorships -- giving preferential > treatment... it also *does* create some reliance, people may expect > hugh to pony up again... if we truly want donations to be altruistic, > they should be anonymous and we shouldn't track who sends in what... i'd say that having 100 $10 'sponsors' has a lot less reliance than 2 $500 ones. if one of the 100 expects preferential treatment and doesn't get it, evolt is out $10. if one of 2, $500 - thats a lot more reliance on a smaller number of subscribers, no? > - some of us don't do the financial donation because we give plenty > already... i give a few hours a day to the community, which at my > hourly rates is a hella lot... you listed your contributions to > evolt.org in another email, and mine can easily be as long... i've > also been working my arse off trying to find another way to get money > in *without* relying on my wallet, or yours... *that's* my > contribution... if you're going to guilt *anyone* about donating (by > saying you're disappointed and then saying your heart is filled with > joy by hugh's donation, and this isn't just me talking), you can > stick it up your arse because you are creating *exactly* the kind of > environment you claim you want to avoid... i wasn't trying to make it a competition. and i wasn't trying to guilt anyone, so relax. i was just trying to point out, in the most non-bad way i could, what the situation was and how i felt about it. > which brings us back to the first point... > > IOW, you're already walking down the path you want to avoid, even if > you don't see it... you're just doing it with people instead of > corps, which, in case you haven't noticed by the threads of the last > week or so, can be a problematic thing... not IOW, in your words. what am i missing in the last week or so on thelist?