[thelist] re [the list] Flash Detection

[aardvark]

> From: "Jamie Bakum" <jabakum at hotmail.com>
>
> I realize we're beating this to death, but I've been traveling -  3
> observations:

feh, i love these discussions... some folks hate them because they 
think we rehash the same stuff, but i always find new stuff when 
these pop up, so keep it coming (and the rest of y'all can just filter 
on the thread)...

> a. I'm fascinated by the double standard that seems to exist between
> Flash, and say, CSS/DHTML (thinking of A List Apart, specifically) - 

i don't think anyone suggested that here... in fact, you can see that 
i was a bit vocal on thelist and in the ALA forums about how i felt 
that was inappropriate for *business* sites...

and if you *really* wanna know how i feel:
To Hell With Bad Editors
http://evolt.org/article/list/25/6096/index.html

> People who think nothing of alienating a significant chunk of their
> 4.x viewership with strictly compliant code squawk at a plug-in that
> is easily available and renders pretty consistently across browsers
> and platforms? Hello? I realize this is an apples/oranges thing, but
> as a user, I'm far more put off by a message saying I need to upgrade
> to NN6 or IE 5 than a message saying I need a plug in -

again, i don't think anyone came across that way, let alone even 
mentioned those things beyond the first two posts...

> b. aardvark wrote:
> 
> "i went looking to price out cars... i went into the requisite
> customization tool and added parts and features and even changed
> colors... took me a while to realize it was Flash and not a horse of
[...] 
> I'm art-directing a site for an auto manufacturer - They've found that
> over 30% of people who configure and save a car on the site purchase
> cars. Now, maybe these are just folks motivated enough to buy a car
> regardless of what's on the site, and it also doesn't mean it needs to
> be done in Flash, but if it is, and it's done well, that's Flash
> enhancing an event tied into the (omigosh) bottom line -

you leave out my other comment about the site that had Flash 
buttons, causing me to leave the site altogether... so, while i'm not 
buying from the company with the Flash configuration, even though 
the Flash *enhanced* my use and got me to my goals, the 
company with the Flash nav definitely *lost* my business since the 
Flash did nothing but add to the time it took me to navigate...

> c.  The Lundstrom Architecture site, http://www.lundstromarch.com,
> done by Juxt Interactive - Love it or hate it, this site won a bunch
> of awards and created a buzz in the fairly insular world of architects
> - I read an interview with one of the principals saying that the PR
> surrounding the site led a bunch of firms to check out the site, look
> at the work Lundstrom was doing, and invite Lundstrom to partner on
> projects they never would have been exposed to.

good for them... i have an architecture client who *insisted* on a 
Flash site... but i wasn't able to build a kick-ass eye-candy one 
(budget, client desires, lack of understanding that Flash does not 
always equate to cool), just a Flash version of what otherwise 
could have been HTML pages... the point is that my client didn't 
understand it wasn't Flash that did it, it was the overall design and 
presentation, Flash just happened to be the best way to do it...

i only raise these points to remind of the opposite of every 
anecdotal piece of information people are posting, both pro- and 
anti-Flash... i happen to be neither, but i will always assume a 
Flash site is a bad idea for a business site or any site that needs 
to be accessible, or get information across quickly and efficiently... 
i also assume WYSIWYG editors write bad code... but my 
assumptions have so far been right in both cases...

> Sure, it's the exception, not the rule, but isn't that a textbook
> example of what the web is supposed to do?

oh, is *that* what the web is supposed to do?

you don't know how much of a cliche you stepped into... there's a 
whole 'nother thread there waiting to get out...