[thelist] Old Browsers old Software, cut bait and move on.

aardvark roselli at earthlink.net
Wed Jul 11 07:53:22 CDT 2001


> From: "Brian King" <BKing at Impact-Technologies.com>
>
> I get paid by my customers.  When I tell them that the glitz they want
> on their site will not with browser version X's, (which by the way is
> Netscape versions mainly), they say "Who cares" for the most part.

what sort of glitz are you talking about?  for the stuff i'm building, 
there's nothing there that would shut out any users... seriously, 
what sort of glitz is on your e-commerce sites?  DHTML?  Flash?  
iframes?

it's hard for me to get my arms around since it's *so* easy to build 
sites that work with most/all browsers without sacrificing 
functionality... yes, you may have to sacrifice eye candy, but in 
most cases it's a barrier to the sale anyway...

> Please people, it's a statement of fact, not an attempt to 'Bash"
> someone or something.  I appreciate the honest feedback.  But the
> truth of the matter is that incompatibilities are mainly with Netscape
> versions and a line has to be drawn on every project between
> functionality and compatibility. I don't know of too many features

actually, depending on how you code, there are very few 
'incompatibilities'... no, NN4 and IE4+ don't have quite the same 
DOM, and NN4 doesn't support CSS as well as later browsers, but 
that's just an issue of support...  are you including N6 in that 
'netscape versions' statement?

> that you can code into your site that will work with Netscape that do
> not work with IE.  (any hints here?).  I do distain people who run old

thankfully very few, but why would you even want them?

> versions of IE browsers too!  Should we expect that I and/or my client
> is going to completely 'dumb down' their site just for them.  UPGRADE
> the darn browser!  Whether it's Netscape or IE, UPGRADE the darn

wow, this is really a WaSP message your touting, which has been 
addressed many times in much more thorough forums... the fact 
is, not everyone can upgrade... generally accepted reasons -- 
those beyond the control of the user -- include:
- locked down corporate environments...
- public terminals (schools, libraries)...
- slow connections (30MB on my 33.6?  nope)...
- old machines ($800 to view your site? nope)...
- no other reason to upgrade (NN4 is fine for my grandma)...
- lack of understanding...
- no other choice (browsers for handicapped, blind, etc.)...

ultimately, when something on a site doesn't work, you're placing 
blame on the user for using an archaic browser, but you have to 
know that the user blames the site for being broken... it doesn't 
matter what you know, it's the user perceives that matters...

> thing.  At least get within a couple of versions of latest. Doesn't it
> ever frustrate you when you build a document, (text, ss, etc) and pass
> it along and them next person can't read it because they are using a 5
> year old version of software?   It's the same thing here.  It will

no, that doesn't happen to me... i code to standards with a clear 
plan for degradability... in fact, it makes it damn easy to build 
sites...

> probably be years before I can use some of the neat new tools that I
> can code in with IE6 browsers simply because the audience is so small.

are you using those 'features' because there's a customer need to 
demand, or because you can?  eye-candy for eye-candy's sake 
helps no one... at least not on an e-comm site...

>  Most customers aren't going to pay for duel functionality coding on
> their sites either.  Simply costs too much.

again, there's no reason to dual-code any sites... it's so easy to 
build pages that work for all, that it seems silly to worry about it...

have you looked at the evolt.org site?  fully compliant, works in all 
browsers, linearizes well, looks best in the latest, but still pretty 
good in the oldies...

Inside the evolt.org Rebuild: The HTML and CSS
http://evolt.org/article/list/20/5816/index.html

> BTW, I am happy to hear your responses.  I am not a close minded
> person and have changed my mind on several occasions. N I am also not
> afraid to raise a subject for debate when I can't see the other side's
> view point.  Enlighten me, if you can.

keep it comin', this is a topic i particularly enjoy discussing...





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