From scott at milcap.com Mon Nov 19 02:05:00 2001 From: scott at milcap.com (Scott Adamson) Date: Mon Nov 19 02:05:00 2001 Subject: [thelist] Drawing XML Content into URLs in an XSL Doc References: <3BF46937.461FEE4F@prodigy.net> <3BF52C45.4030805@yahoo.ca> <3BF5781E.5B40FB15@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <003c01c170d1$4cfed750$4501000a@milcap.com> if you are passing a parameter to the page i cant help you on that one, ive never donw that before, i normally merge the xml/xsl on the server in asp and add extra nodes for the passed parameters. things to look out for are that your select is in the rigt place as in some text some more text calling select="text" will get you nothing unless you are in a or a template match for */xml you could use and that would pull just the first item. if i hear anything about passing params and using the value ill post it on. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Megan Holbrook" To: Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [thelist] Drawing XML Content into URLs in an XSL Doc > Thanks to both evolters who responded to my question with suggestions - > unfortunately, now I seem to have a different problem. I tried both: > > select="url"/> select="thetextofthelink"> > > and > > select="thetextofthelink"> > > ...and both returned links that had empty hrefs...is there something > else I need to be doing? > > Thanks so much for the help... > > :) M. > > Craig Saila wrote: > > > > Megan Holbrook wrote: > > > > > What's wrong with using: > > > "> ? > > > > You can also try: > > blah > > > > -- > > Cheers, > > > > Craig Saila > > ------------------------------------------ > > craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > --------------------------------------- > > For unsubscribe and other options, including > > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > -- > Megan Holbrook - megan at kapow.com > Partner - Business Development > kapow, inc. (www.kapow.com) > > kapow, inc. Milwaukee kapow, inc. Los Angeles > 2405 E. Wyoming Place 2130 Sawtelle Blvd, #302A > Milwaukee, WI 53202 Los Angeles, CA 90025 > T: 414-273-2446 * F: 419-793-6271 T: 310-479-2020 * F: 310-473-3711 > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Mon Nov 19 04:39:02 2001 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Mon Nov 19 04:39:02 2001 Subject: [thelist] html load time Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- http://www.imagemagick.org It's a bit of a pain in the butt to install, but is great once you do. I use it on my site to power a dropbox: http://www.easyweb.co.uk/pics/dropbox/ where I can just drop image files into a directory and the page builds round them. Imagemagick works out the image dimensions so I can write out height and width attributes in the img tags. I've also seen it used to programatically combine diagrams - comparing spider maps of two items by overlaying them in a single image. If you've 30 items, it's a hell of a lot quicker than churning out 900 static images in Photoshop by hand. It's also great for producing thumbnails - there's an example of this on the IM site somewhere. Cheers Martin To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] html load time Image Magick (Yup, spelt just like that) is a free (not shareware) command line tool which, as far as I can tell, does every thing PhotoShop does - but w/o a GUI (unless you're running X-Windows, in which case, it's fully GUI enabled.) Don't remember the URL. > From: "Jeana Clark" > > My boss (who's a marketing dude and all about automating as much work > as we can) is wondering if there's a server-side program (running on > apache or NSCA) that can automatically optimize graphics to a certain > 'size' compression etc that we can set and sort of set it as a cron > job. Basically.. something like macros in photoshop... but done *on* > the server. --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From scott at milcap.com Mon Nov 19 05:18:46 2001 From: scott at milcap.com (Scott Adamson) Date: Mon Nov 19 05:18:46 2001 Subject: [thelist] A bit off topic - Access DB References: Message-ID: <00c501c170e8$22b2a0a0$4501000a@milcap.com> the only thing i can suggest is to set up an odbc connection between mysql and access, its probably the simplest most reliable method of getting your data back in there intact ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roee Rubin" To: "Thelist" Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 5:49 AM Subject: [thelist] A bit off topic - Access DB > Hello, > > I am a bit unfamiliar with Access DB so your help will be appreciated. > > I need to export a database and later import it into a mysql DB. The problem > I am having is that the file I am exporting has many \t and \n characters > embedded which basically screw up the exported file. > > MySQL Front has a feature that exports a complete table into a collection of > SQL statement which can later be imported. Is there anything similar in > Access? What are my other options in transferring the data? > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Roee Rubin > roee at irubin.com > > > > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From john at userfrenzy.com Mon Nov 19 05:41:37 2001 From: john at userfrenzy.com (John Handelaar) Date: Mon Nov 19 05:41:37 2001 Subject: [thelist] skinz.org, and the like Message-ID: Before I go off and have to spend most of December writing one, does anyone know of an off-the-shelf 'skin browser' app like skinz.com or the one on the Winamp site? Seems odd that there are a hundred sites using them and I can't find a SF project for them :-) ------------------------------------------ John Handelaar T +44 20 7209 4117 M +44 7930 681789 F +44 870 169 7657 E john at userfrenzy.com ------------------------------------------ From scott at milcap.com Mon Nov 19 06:13:22 2001 From: scott at milcap.com (Scott Adamson) Date: Mon Nov 19 06:13:22 2001 Subject: [thelist] Drawing XML Content into URLs in an XSL Doc References: <3BF46937.461FEE4F@prodigy.net> <3BF52C45.4030805@yahoo.ca> <3BF5781E.5B40FB15@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <00e201c170f4$0065fea0$4501000a@milcap.com> is the solution place just after the then call in the select as $url ?url=xxxx sent to the page will give $url the value of xxxx ----- Original Message ----- From: "Megan Holbrook" To: Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [thelist] Drawing XML Content into URLs in an XSL Doc > Thanks to both evolters who responded to my question with suggestions - > unfortunately, now I seem to have a different problem. I tried both: > > select="url"/> select="thetextofthelink"> > > and > > select="thetextofthelink"> > > ...and both returned links that had empty hrefs...is there something > else I need to be doing? > > Thanks so much for the help... > > :) M. > > Craig Saila wrote: > > > > Megan Holbrook wrote: > > > > > What's wrong with using: > > > "> ? > > > > You can also try: > > blah > > > > -- > > Cheers, > > > > Craig Saila > > ------------------------------------------ > > craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > --------------------------------------- > > For unsubscribe and other options, including > > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > -- > Megan Holbrook - megan at kapow.com > Partner - Business Development > kapow, inc. (www.kapow.com) > > kapow, inc. Milwaukee kapow, inc. Los Angeles > 2405 E. Wyoming Place 2130 Sawtelle Blvd, #302A > Milwaukee, WI 53202 Los Angeles, CA 90025 > T: 414-273-2446 * F: 419-793-6271 T: 310-479-2020 * F: 310-473-3711 > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From jay at trans-city.com Mon Nov 19 08:18:31 2001 From: jay at trans-city.com (Jay Greenspan) Date: Mon Nov 19 08:18:31 2001 Subject: [thelist] A bit off topic - Access DB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <04A60EFE-DCF9-11D5-8454-003065C48B4C@trans-city.com> There are a few utilities you can use, I recommend access_to_mysql, which you can find here: http://mysql.mirrors.netnumina.com/Downloads/Contrib/access_to_mysql.txt The instructions in the file are pretty clear. -j On Sunday, November 18, 2001, at 11:49 PM, Roee Rubin wrote: > Hello, > > I am a bit unfamiliar with Access DB so your help will be appreciated. > > I need to export a database and later import it into a mysql DB. The > problem > I am having is that the file I am exporting has many \t and \n > characters > embedded which basically screw up the exported file. > > MySQL Front has a feature that exports a complete table into a > collection of > SQL statement which can later be imported. Is there anything similar in > Access? What are my other options in transferring the data? From djc at members.evolt.org Mon Nov 19 09:43:09 2001 From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 19 09:43:09 2001 Subject: [thelist] damn windows (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:29:47 -0800 From: ArgonLabs To: thelist at evolt.org Subject: damn windows hello, here is the problem. i am opening up two windows, lets call them windows "B" and "C", from window "A". window ""B" has a link on it that links back to the content in window "A". when that link is activated i want both window "B" &"C" to close and window "A" to reload to a new page on my site. i have been going around in circles trying to figure this out and i am sure that i am right on the edge of finding the answer, but want some help before i go nuts. thanks in advance. wylie From bill at ncpr.org Mon Nov 19 10:04:32 2001 From: bill at ncpr.org (Bill Haenel) Date: Mon Nov 19 10:04:32 2001 Subject: [thelist] Need an XML starting-point/how-to Message-ID: Our radio station now has the option of grabbing news articles, etc. from a couple of services that are providing the content via XML to stations like us. So, after avoiding it for quite a while, it is now obvious that to stay ahead of the game, I'll need to learn how to use XML to integrate their content with our our own. Where to begin? Like most of us, I have negative amounts of time available to start something new, so I'm looking for a couple of down-and-dirty, boot-camp-type online sources that might help me to get started with XML. Where's the best place to start? Thanks so much, BH From list-matt at reprocessed.org Mon Nov 19 10:19:24 2001 From: list-matt at reprocessed.org (Matt Patterson) Date: Mon Nov 19 10:19:24 2001 Subject: [thelist] damn windows (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011119161902-r01010800-0e99d954-0921-0108@10.0.0.15> On 19/11/01 at 9:43 am, djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) wrote: > here is the problem. > > i am opening up two windows, lets call them windows "B" and "C", from > window "A". > window ""B" has a link on it that links back to the content in window > "A". when that link is activated i want both window "B" &"C" to close > and window "A" to reload to a new page on my site. An answer (or at least, what I would do with this kind of stuff) is to assign variables in window 'A' which refer to windows 'B' and 'C' and are assigned when you open those windows (as in var windowVar = window.open(blah.html)). Then, when you call content in window A simply perform a check like (if (typeof windowVar != undefined)) to figure out if you actually opened them or not, then (having established whether or not they exist) make window 'A' display new content and then close windows 'B' and 'C' (the assumption being that you've assigned variables which won't disappear when you close window 'A' - probably local variables in window 'B'). HTH Matt -- Matt Patterson | Typographer | http://reprocessed.org/ From emagin at onebox.com Mon Nov 19 10:39:56 2001 From: emagin at onebox.com (emagin) Date: Mon Nov 19 10:39:56 2001 Subject: [thelist] IA Deliverables - Documentation In-Reply-To: <3BF15E99.878D8918@mantruc.com> Message-ID: From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org : Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 9:56 AM : There's a project running for a couple of weeks called the IA Wiki, it's : an effort to create an information center for IAs where everybody can : add content where they feel it's useful it is here: : http://www.IAwiki.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?IAwiki Thanks, I just read most of the articles. I have met Christina Wodcke and some of folks at CarbonIQ, as they have these pretty cool brown-bag IA sessions out here in San Francisco. Many of them are quite good, especially the overarching "how-to" by adaptive path http://www.adaptivepath.com/presentations/complete/index.phtml There were 2-3 good articles on prototypes. After reading them, i found these two to be most to my liking (probably because they support my own bare-bones approach view!) http://cooper.com/articles/art_perils_of_prototyping.htm This one talks of the various methods, including VB, Flash, HTML, as we had been discussing. http://www.uiweb.com/issues/issue12.htm I am still of the frame of mind that paper and Visio (with stencils) are just fine with me! If you have netmeeting, we could do a Visio session sometime. I think you downloaded it, right? I'm sure you figured out the stencils by now, but I thought I'd share the little I know if it helps. Take care, Mark From sgd at ti3.com Mon Nov 19 10:41:19 2001 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Mon Nov 19 10:41:19 2001 Subject: [thelist] IIS 5 Certificate Tip Message-ID: > Unit fields. The most common cause of this problem is the use > of a comma > (,). " > what kills me is the Cert Request wizard in IIS4 simply ignores commas if you try to put them in; much smarter than letting you make the mistake (why didn't they keep that? ugh.) anyone figure out how to overload one site in IIS5 with multiple SSL certs? --something else that you can do in IIS4 that MS seems to think you shouldn't do in IIS5.... sgd From argonlabs at bigplanet.com Mon Nov 19 10:45:12 2001 From: argonlabs at bigplanet.com (ArgonLabs) Date: Mon Nov 19 10:45:12 2001 Subject: [thelist] damn windows (fwd) References: <20011119161902-r01010800-0e99d954-0921-0108@10.0.0.15> Message-ID: <3BF928DF.4052BAF8@bigplanet.com> thanks for the help, i have figured it out i put in this along with a newWindow function: function closeWindow() { if (win && win.open && !win.closed) win.close(); } then used the onUnload action to call the closeWindow function, works like a charm. W Matt Patterson wrote: > On 19/11/01 at 9:43 am, djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) wrote: > > > here is the problem. > > > > i am opening up two windows, lets call them windows "B" and "C", from > > window "A". > > window ""B" has a link on it that links back to the content in window > > "A". when that link is activated i want both window "B" &"C" to close > > and window "A" to reload to a new page on my site. > > An answer (or at least, what I would do with this kind of stuff) is to > assign variables in window 'A' which refer to windows 'B' and 'C' and > are assigned when you open those windows (as in var windowVar = > window.open(blah.html)). Then, when you call content in window A simply > perform a check like (if (typeof windowVar != undefined)) to figure out > if you actually opened them or not, then (having established whether or > not they exist) make window 'A' display new content and then close > windows 'B' and 'C' (the assumption being that you've assigned variables > which won't disappear when you close window 'A' - probably local > variables in window 'B'). > > HTH > > Matt > > -- > Matt Patterson | Typographer > | http://reprocessed.org/ > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From webdesign1 at irubin.com Mon Nov 19 10:46:22 2001 From: webdesign1 at irubin.com (Roee Rubin) Date: Mon Nov 19 10:46:22 2001 Subject: [thelist] A bit off topic - Access DB In-Reply-To: <04A60EFE-DCF9-11D5-8454-003065C48B4C@trans-city.com> Message-ID: Thanks very much. Works great. Roee -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Jay Greenspan Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 6:24 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] A bit off topic - Access DB There are a few utilities you can use, I recommend access_to_mysql, which you can find here: http://mysql.mirrors.netnumina.com/Downloads/Contrib/access_to_mysql.txt The instructions in the file are pretty clear. -j On Sunday, November 18, 2001, at 11:49 PM, Roee Rubin wrote: > Hello, > > I am a bit unfamiliar with Access DB so your help will be appreciated. > > I need to export a database and later import it into a mysql DB. The > problem > I am having is that the file I am exporting has many \t and \n > characters > embedded which basically screw up the exported file. > > MySQL Front has a feature that exports a complete table into a > collection of > SQL statement which can later be imported. Is there anything similar in > Access? What are my other options in transferring the data? --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Mon Nov 19 11:04:39 2001 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Mon Nov 19 11:04:39 2001 Subject: [thelist] Data Protection in the UK - updated legal advice Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- This might be of use to anyone who's handling personal data in the UK (or of UK users): The Information Commissioner has issued The Data Protection Act: Legal Guidance, to help those holding personal information to stay within the law. This publication sets out changes to the Act and provides advice on all the major provisions. The publication can be downloaded from the Information Commissioner's website at http://www.dataprotection.gov.uk/dpa98.doc. Cheers Martin --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From nopun at bellsouth.net Mon Nov 19 11:11:45 2001 From: nopun at bellsouth.net (Tyme) Date: Mon Nov 19 11:11:45 2001 Subject: [thelist] Truth about cookies? References: <009201c16ed7$38059b00$7399fea9@tyme> <005701c16ef2$14f62060$657ba8c0@zoominternet.net> Message-ID: <002b01c1711d$e2be5800$7399fea9@tyme> ----- Original Message ----- From: D.Bruce Saurer To: Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [thelist] Truth about cookies? > If I understand what you want, IE6 has these options > Tools/Internet Options/Privacy/Advanced (1st/3rd party options) > ../Edit (to add or delete domains) TYME} I will look forward to that feature when I install IE6. (Still use IE5.01 and IE4 as my test browsers, since so many people still use those versions. Don't have computer partitioned to accept multiple IEs.) From adrian at cubitum.co.uk Mon Nov 19 11:12:54 2001 From: adrian at cubitum.co.uk (Adrian Simmons) Date: Mon Nov 19 11:12:54 2001 Subject: [thelist] Data Protection in the UK - updated legal advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 5:03 PM +0000 19/11/01, wrote: >This might be of use to anyone who's handling personal data in the UK (or >of UK users): >The publication can be downloaded from the >Information Commissioner's website at >http://www.dataprotection.gov.uk/dpa98.doc. And it's also available as a PDF: http://www.dataprotection.gov.uk/dpa98.pdf :) -- Adrian e-mail: mailto:adrian at cubitum.co.uk Web Site: http://www.cubitum.co.uk Netscape/AOL Instant Message ID: adrianatcubitum From muinar at gmx.net Mon Nov 19 11:40:31 2001 From: muinar at gmx.net (muinar) Date: Mon Nov 19 11:40:31 2001 Subject: [thelist] Email Form Without Line Breaks In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20011118144204.009ed5b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011118231804.00a542c0@mail.gmx.net> Hello Is it possible to screw up something in Outlook so that Emails, sent out from a web form, are displayed without line breaks? When I test the form, I get Emails like that: Name: test Address: test Phone: test . . . Customer on Outlook gets it like that: Name: test Address: test Phone: test... I currently have no copy of Outlook here, so I hope someone of you has some experience with this kind of issue... Thanks a lot Mike ____ mike s. krischker muinar internet studios ch-4009 basel mailto:msk at muinar.com erfolgs-websites: http://muinar.com/ know-how f?r kmu: http://kmutips.ch/ From nicole at parrot.ca Mon Nov 19 11:49:12 2001 From: nicole at parrot.ca (Nicole Parrot) Date: Mon Nov 19 11:49:12 2001 Subject: [thelist] Need an XML starting-point/how-to References: Message-ID: <007e01c17122$eff9b230$24788242@nparrot> Hi Bill You are probably dealing with a RDF or RSS news feed, which are a specific breed of XML. If that's the case, you can limit your study to those. What's your platform? Do you have access to PHP, or ASP? If you do have either one of them, then parsing the file is trivial. I've got a PHP parser off the web somewhere that handles RSS easily. I've modified it beyond recognition though, and I'm trying to find the original. I'll post on the list when I find it. Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Haenel" > Our radio station now has the option of grabbing news articles, etc. from a > couple of services that are providing the content via XML to stations like > us. > So, after avoiding it for quite a while, it is now obvious that to stay > ahead of the game, I'll need to learn how to use XML to integrate their > content with our our own. Where to begin? From mstevens at members.evolt.org Mon Nov 19 11:51:21 2001 From: mstevens at members.evolt.org (Mike Stevens) Date: Mon Nov 19 11:51:21 2001 Subject: [thelist] Email Form Without Line Breaks In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20011118231804.00a542c0@mail.gmx.net> Message-ID: in your script that formats the email, try adding a line break after each line like this: Name: test\n Address: test\n Phone: test\n > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of muinar > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 2:24 AM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] Email Form Without Line Breaks > > > Hello > > Is it possible to screw up something in Outlook so that Emails, sent out > from a web form, are displayed without line breaks? > > When I test the form, I get Emails like that: > > Name: test > Address: test > Phone: test > . > . > . > > Customer on Outlook gets it like that: > > Name: test Address: test Phone: test... > > I currently have no copy of Outlook here, so I hope someone of you has > some experience with this kind of issue... > > Thanks a lot > > Mike > > > ____ mike s. krischker muinar internet studios > ch-4009 basel mailto:msk at muinar.com > erfolgs-websites: http://muinar.com/ > know-how f?r kmu: http://kmutips.ch/ > > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com Mon Nov 19 11:51:49 2001 From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (MRC) Date: Mon Nov 19 11:51:49 2001 Subject: [thelist] Email Form Without Line Breaks References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011118231804.00a542c0@mail.gmx.net> Message-ID: <009f01c17123$555bfb10$2860398a@newcos.com> Mike, > Customer on Outlook gets it like that: > > Name: test Address: test Phone: test... Just curious: is the other person using Outlook XP (2002)? If so, it has a feature that collapses line breaks when you open a text-only email. It's actually a somewhat handy feature when you are reading reply or forwarded messages where line breaks end up in odd places throughout a paragraph, but it sometimes gets it wrong. If this is Outlook XP, there should be a clickable statement at the top of the email (just below the toolbar) stating that line breaks have been suppressed; if you click on that, it formats the email as received. There may be a way to turn off this suppression feature altogether, but I don't have Outlook XP at my current computer. If that's not it, well, forget I ever said anything... :) James Aylard From nicole at parrot.ca Mon Nov 19 12:00:09 2001 From: nicole at parrot.ca (Nicole Parrot) Date: Mon Nov 19 12:00:09 2001 Subject: [thelist] Need an XML starting-point/how-to References: Message-ID: <008c01c17124$768036c0$24788242@nparrot> Here are a few links: I was able to get the PHP parser working without too much effort. It all depends how familiar you are with programming and PHP, I guess. And to the group: how does one submit an article here? I'm tempted to write a beginner level starting point on RSS feeds. Not that I'm an expert, far from it. I'm still a beginner myself, but it would be nice to document the first few steps to getting an RSS feed going. RSS specifications: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/files/specification.html An introduction to RSS news feeds: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/w-rss.html?D49n2 (includes a parser in Perl) RSSManip: an ASP parser http://www.tnl.net/how/asp/RSS/RSSmanip/ Parsing XML with PHP http://www.wirelessdevnet.com/channels/wap/features/xmlcast_php.html Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Haenel" To: "thelist" Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:07 AM Subject: [thelist] Need an XML starting-point/how-to > Our radio station now has the option of grabbing news articles, etc. from a > couple of services that are providing the content via XML to stations like > us. > > So, after avoiding it for quite a while, it is now obvious that to stay > ahead of the game, I'll need to learn how to use XML to integrate their > content with our our own. Where to begin? > > Like most of us, I have negative amounts of time available to start > something new, so I'm looking for a couple of down-and-dirty, boot-camp-type > online sources that might help me to get started with XML. Where's the best > place to start? From john at neoncowboy.com Mon Nov 19 12:11:54 2001 From: john at neoncowboy.com (John Corry) Date: Mon Nov 19 12:11:54 2001 Subject: [thelist] MLS on the net In-Reply-To: <008c01c17124$768036c0$24788242@nparrot> Message-ID: I have been charged with building a real estate sales site that incorporates information from the MLS system. Anyone done that before? Know where to go for documentation? thanks, John From dmiller at mcc.ca Mon Nov 19 12:52:01 2001 From: dmiller at mcc.ca (MILLER David R.) Date: Mon Nov 19 12:52:01 2001 Subject: [thelist] Cancelling onKeyDown in Netscape 6 Message-ID: I have little experience with Netscape 6, but here's what I have done in a similar situation. Assuming that you can rely on JS being enabled, give your form tag an onSubmit="return false". That will prevent the enter key from submitting the form. Then in your JS validation routine, presumably triggered from the submit button's or another button's onClick event, set form.onsubmit="return true" before returning true from the validation function or submitting the form explicitly. HTH ---------------FROM------------------- David R. Miller Manager, Computer-Based Testing Medical Council of Canada dmiller at mcc.ca ----------------------------------------- Original message Message: 4 Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:09:22 -0800 From: "Matt Feldman" Subject: [thelist] Cancelling onKeyDown in Netscape 6 I'm trying to stop a form from submitting when the user presses enter on a text field. In IE 5 and Netscape 4, I have a working solution: in the onKeyDown attribute I call this function: function cancelEnter(evt) { if (evt.keyCode == 13) { return false; } } I have to replace the evt.keyCode with evt.which in Netscape 4, but that's not a problem. In Netscape 6, however, it catches the event fine, but returning false does not cancel the form submit. I know this has something to do with event bubbling, but I don't know enough about it to solve the problem. Any suggestions? -Matt From argonlabs at bigplanet.com Mon Nov 19 13:05:22 2001 From: argonlabs at bigplanet.com (ArgonLabs) Date: Mon Nov 19 13:05:22 2001 Subject: [thelist] rotating images Message-ID: <3BF947C5.A2DA11B8@bigplanet.com> is it possible to stop this rotating cycle with an onClick action? adImages = new Array("../art/bat_frm_1.gif","../art/bat_frm_2.gif","../art/bat_frm_3.gif","../art/bat_frm_4.gif","../art/bat_frm_3.gif","../art/bat_frm_2.gif","../art/bat_frm_1.gif") thisAd = 0 imgCt = adImages.length function rotate() { if (document.images) { thisAd++ if (thisAd == imgCt) { thisAd = 0 } document.frm.src=adImages[thisAd] setTimeout("rotate()", 1 * 200) } } W From mfeldman at wwwood.net Mon Nov 19 13:19:36 2001 From: mfeldman at wwwood.net (Matt Feldman) Date: Mon Nov 19 13:19:36 2001 Subject: [thelist] RE: Cancelling onKeyDown in Netscape 6 Message-ID: <77666FC5AE39A046B7064AAF97AC6696131746@WWWMAIL.wwwood.net> In response to Jeffs comment about my cancelling onKeyDown question: The onKeyDown cancelling is only one possible solution to the problem. The problem I'm having is that we have several pages that have multiple options for the user to select (Save, cancel, save & add new, save & return to list, etc.) and if they just submit using the enter key, the app doesn't know what the user wants to be done. This could be solved by a default, or perhaps prompting the user, but those may not be options. I was trying to assess whether cancelling the form submit is a viable option code-wise before I discuss solutions with my manager. So does anyone have suggestions for the original question? >I'm trying to stop a form from submitting when the user presses enter on a text field. In IE 5 and Netscape 4, I >have a working solution: in the onKeyDown attribute I call this function: > > function cancelEnter(evt) { > if (evt.keyCode == 13) { > return false; > } > } > >I have to replace the evt.keyCode with evt.which in Netscape 4, but that's not a problem. In Netscape 6, however, >it catches the event fine, but returning false does not cancel the form submit. I know this has something to do >with event bubbling, but I don't know enough about it to solve the problem. thanks, Matt From r937 at interlog.com Mon Nov 19 13:35:50 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Mon Nov 19 13:35:50 2001 Subject: [thelist] Need an XML starting-point/how-to Message-ID: <01c17131$dac58b00$e24e149a@rudy> >how does one submit an article here? hi nicole on the evolt site's sidebar there's a Submit link that takes you to http://evolt.org/article/index.html?action=submit this is the main submit page, and contains links to writer's guidelines (for style) and submission style guide (for the html tags that you can use) you need to be logged in to submit there is one previous article about rss, so you may want to check it out first before writing yours -- Headlines in RSS and Perl http://evolt.org/article/foo/17/5535/index.html rudy From ftarzwell at fayec.com Mon Nov 19 13:38:54 2001 From: ftarzwell at fayec.com (FayeC) Date: Mon Nov 19 13:38:54 2001 Subject: [thelist] Format parameters Message-ID: <3BF961E9.751F0629@fayec.com> Can somebody tell me what is the format parameters to format even the master boot sector of a HD? Is it format /s? Thank you in advance, A member with a little virus problem... From Matt at grndwtr.com Mon Nov 19 13:46:17 2001 From: Matt at grndwtr.com (Matthias Ritzkowski) Date: Mon Nov 19 13:46:17 2001 Subject: [thelist] Format parameters Message-ID: <8179FA78B6D0D111AA53006097B0128007AF43@mail1> fdisk/mbr Regards Matthias Ritzkowski >-----Original Message----- >From: FayeC [mailto:ftarzwell at fayec.com] >Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 14:48 >To: The List >Subject: [thelist] Format parameters > > >Can somebody tell me what is the format parameters to format even the >master boot sector of a HD? >Is it format /s? > >Thank you in advance, > >A member with a little virus problem... > > >--------------------------------------- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu Mon Nov 19 14:05:42 2001 From: v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu (Minh Lee Goon) Date: Mon Nov 19 14:05:42 2001 Subject: [thelist] JavaScript variable into CF variable Message-ID: <3BF96749.112B64F@sdsumus.sdstate.edu> Evolt, I've been trying to find an alternate method of displaying the path of a page in my custom 404 page. Using #cgi.Path_Info# didn't work. None of the UDFs, custom tags, or error variables displayed the path attempted by the user. Instead, it only displays the path to the custom 404 page. I think the JavaScript method (window.location.href) might be the answer but now I have to figure out how to be able to use that variable somewhere else on the page. For example: I'd like to use the variable BaseRef somewhere else in that page, possibly as a CF variable. Any suggestions how I can do this? Minh Lee Goon ------------- Web Administrator Information Technology Services South Dakota State University Brookings, South Dakota From webdad at tampabay.rr.com Mon Nov 19 14:10:48 2001 From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert) Date: Mon Nov 19 14:10:48 2001 Subject: [thelist] Email Form Without Line Breaks In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20011118231804.00a542c0@mail.gmx.net> Message-ID: <000201c17137$fd71fb10$0200a8c0@BOISNET2> This is an example from an ASP page I have made to process the form fields from the web to Outlook but not necessarily Outlook only..The form being used is here http://www.calvarylargo.org txtEmailBody = txtDate & VbCrLf & VbCrLf _ & txtSalutation & " " & txtFirstName & " " & txtLastName & VbCrLf _ & txtAddress & VbCrLf _ & txtPhone & VbCrLf _ & "Email Address: " & txtEmail & VbCrLf _ & "Best day to reach: " & txtDayToReach & VbCrLf & VbCrLf _ & "Request : " & txtRequest & VbCrLf & VbCrLf _ & "Boxes checked on form: " & VbCrLf & txtBoxesChecked Where the VbCrLf & VbCrLf _ signify the line break and the _ is the end of line. It produces a much cleaner output to Outlook. Hope this helps. Bob -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of muinar Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 2:24 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Email Form Without Line Breaks Hello Is it possible to screw up something in Outlook so that Emails, sent out from a web form, are displayed without line breaks? When I test the form, I get Emails like that: Name: test Address: test Phone: test . . . Customer on Outlook gets it like that: Name: test Address: test Phone: test... I currently have no copy of Outlook here, so I hope someone of you has some experience with this kind of issue... Thanks a lot Mike ____ mike s. krischker muinar internet studios ch-4009 basel mailto:msk at muinar.com erfolgs-websites: http://muinar.com/ know-how f?r kmu: http://kmutips.ch/ --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.290 / Virus Database: 155 - Release Date: 10/23/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.290 / Virus Database: 155 - Release Date: 10/23/01 From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com Mon Nov 19 14:16:16 2001 From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com) Date: Mon Nov 19 14:16:16 2001 Subject: [thelist] JavaScript variable into CF variable Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD30A@arnold.bedrock.com> | I think the JavaScript method (window.location.href) might be | the answer | but now I have to figure out how to be able to use that variable | somewhere else on the page. For example: | | | | I'd like to use the variable BaseRef somewhere else in that page, | possibly as a CF variable. Any suggestions how I can do this? Hi Minh, If you want to use a JS variable as a CF variable, you need another trip to the server. You might write the variable value to a hidden form element and pass this to the server. This could be accomplished by hidden frames, or a refresh, or, with IE only, using WDDX and the MSXML object to pass the value to the CF server as an XML document. If you ask my opinion, this is all somewhat heavy for a simple 404... What about just a document.write? From joshua at alphashop.net Mon Nov 19 14:35:12 2001 From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson) Date: Mon Nov 19 14:35:12 2001 Subject: [thelist] JavaScript variable into CF variable References: <3BF96749.112B64F@sdsumus.sdstate.edu> Message-ID: <0b1201c1713b$5cfd2e30$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> Take a look at cgi.query_string and see if it contains the url in it. -joshua ----- Original Message ----- From: "Minh Lee Goon" Subject: [thelist] JavaScript variable into CF variable : Evolt, : I've been trying to find an alternate method of displaying the path of a : page in my custom 404 page. Using #cgi.Path_Info# didn't work. None of : the UDFs, custom tags, or error variables displayed the path attempted : by the user. Instead, it only displays the path to the custom 404 page. From websavant at sirenwire.net Mon Nov 19 14:38:07 2001 From: websavant at sirenwire.net (Kimberly Carroll) Date: Mon Nov 19 14:38:07 2001 Subject: [thelist] MLS on the net In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <28547.95A7%websavant@sirenwire.net> > a real estate sales site that incorporates information from the MLS system. John, I worked on a project just like that last year. Contact me off the list and I will help you if I can. Kimberly From v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu Mon Nov 19 14:44:11 2001 From: v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu (Minh Lee Goon) Date: Mon Nov 19 14:44:11 2001 Subject: [thelist] JavaScript variable into CF variable References: <3BF96749.112B64F@sdsumus.sdstate.edu> <0b1201c1713b$5cfd2e30$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> Message-ID: <3BF97068.B8F01D23@sdsumus.sdstate.edu> #cgi.Query_String# doesn't return a value. Neither does #cgi.Path_Info#. I'm using CF5 with Apache on Windows. I wonder if Apache might have something to do with it, because the article I read uses IIS. Joshua Olson wrote: > > Take a look at cgi.query_string and see if it contains the url in it. > > -joshua From joshua at alphashop.net Mon Nov 19 14:53:15 2001 From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson) Date: Mon Nov 19 14:53:15 2001 Subject: [thelist] JavaScript variable into CF variable References: <3BF96749.112B64F@sdsumus.sdstate.edu> <0b1201c1713b$5cfd2e30$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <3BF97068.B8F01D23@sdsumus.sdstate.edu> Message-ID: <0b2401c1713d$e2cf6170$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> I do know that IIS and Apache handle the 404 differently. I think evolt went through a similar problem. Dan, did you not have to rewrite a portion of Apache and recompile to get it to pass the original url to the 404 handler? -joshua ----- Original Message ----- From: "Minh Lee Goon" Subject: Re: [thelist] JavaScript variable into CF variable : #cgi.Query_String# doesn't return a value. Neither does #cgi.Path_Info#. : I'm using CF5 with Apache on Windows. I wonder if Apache might have : something to do with it, because the article I read uses IIS. : : Joshua Olson wrote: : > : > Take a look at cgi.query_string and see if it contains the url in it. : > : > -joshua From hblair at hotfootmail.com Mon Nov 19 14:55:25 2001 From: hblair at hotfootmail.com (Hugh Blair) Date: Mon Nov 19 14:55:25 2001 Subject: [thelist] MLS on the net In-Reply-To: <28547.95A7%websavant@sirenwire.net> Message-ID: WOW - this took a long time to get here. Somebody set the "Wayback Machine to 1904. -Hugh ____________________________ http://www.wholesalenics.net > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Kimberly Carroll > Sent: Saturday, January 02, 1904 9:53 PM <------------************ > To: evolt > Subject: Re: [thelist] MLS on the net > > > > a real estate sales site that incorporates information from the > MLS system. > > John, > I worked on a project just like that last year. > Contact me off the list and I will help you if I can. > Kimberly > > > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > From mbiscay at skyminds.net Mon Nov 19 16:50:00 2001 From: mbiscay at skyminds.net (Matt Biscay) Date: Mon Nov 19 16:50:00 2001 Subject: [thelist] Cross-Browser script Message-ID: <003301c1714c$73b6d660$be040c50@wanadoo.fr> Hi everyone, I have a problem with finding a correct cross browser script that will display my pages correctly in both IE and Opera (i did not check Nestcape). I had written a script in php and the display was great but some search engines seem to get confused. Do you have any ideas ? I heard there was some possibility in Javascript but I want to use a single page (no redirects to several pages). Thanks a lot, ----- Matt Biscay http://www.skyminds.net/ From cache at dowebs.com Mon Nov 19 18:05:07 2001 From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith) Date: Mon Nov 19 18:05:07 2001 Subject: [thelist] rotating images In-Reply-To: <3BF947C5.A2DA11B8@bigplanet.com> Message-ID: <3BF93C8E.12844.1B6A84D@localhost> > is it possible to stop this rotating cycle with an onClick action? > thisAd = 0 > imgCt = adImages.length > function rotate() { > if (document.images) { > thisAd++ > if (thisAd == imgCt) { > thisAd = 0 > } > document.frm.src=adImages[thisAd] > setTimeout("rotate()", 1 * 200) > } > } ================================== Yeah.... First add another global variable rotate_on=1 Then create a stop function and aim your stopper onClick event at it: function stop(){rotate_on=0} Then break your loop apart from the originating call so the originating call simply sets a global variable and starts the loop (and can restart the loop if needed) function rotate() { rotate_on=1 rotator() } function rotator(){ if (document.images) { thisAd++ if (thisAd == imgCt) { thisAd = 0 } if(rotate_on==1){ > document.frm.src=adImages[thisAd] > setTimeout("rotator()", 1 * 200) } > } > } There are more elegant ways but this crude interrupt will work keith From evolt at spinhead.com Mon Nov 19 19:18:33 2001 From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead) Date: Mon Nov 19 19:18:33 2001 Subject: [thelist] ™ in Opera on Linux Message-ID: <000501c17161$ae3af3b0$080a000a@HEISENBERG> Tried ™ and it displayed as text. Now I tried ™ and it just leaves a blank space. Displays fine in my copies of Mozilla, Netscape, and Lynx on Linux; IE and NN on Mac, and IE, NN, and Opera on PC (all recent versions.) spinhead From beau at members.evolt.org Mon Nov 19 19:50:30 2001 From: beau at members.evolt.org (Beau Hartshorne) Date: Mon Nov 19 19:50:30 2001 Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Pop-up Window Message-ID: <001701c17166$2d3649e0$0e3d4d18@Dell8100> When this code: is called from an tag, like so: High Speed, in IE 6/Win2k, the popup window gets opened in the background. This problem does not appear at all in Netscape 6.2. Here's the page: http://www.edgemont.tv/backlot/post.asp The links are about 1/3 the way down the page, (High Speed | Low Speed). Thanks, Beau From evolt at spinhead.com Mon Nov 19 20:29:33 2001 From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead) Date: Mon Nov 19 20:29:33 2001 Subject: [thelist] site check: www.magisnetworks.com/new2002 Message-ID: <000b01c1716b$97210ed0$080a000a@HEISENBERG> Okay, after the last round of suggestions (thanks esp. rudy and /rg) we've progressed and are ready for further input. The logo and the 'Here and Now' graphic are emphatically non-negotiable, per the marketing folks. Comments on anything else are solicited - colors, design code. I've tested in IE6, NN6, and Opera 5 on PC; newest versions of IE and NN on Mac OS9, and Opera, NN and Lynx on Linux; all at 800x600 and 1024x768. Older browser checks would be helpful. http://www.magisnetworks.com/new2002 Thanks heaps. spinhead From amanda at gawow.com Mon Nov 19 20:45:13 2001 From: amanda at gawow.com (A. Erickson) Date: Mon Nov 19 20:45:13 2001 Subject: [thelist] site check: www.magisnetworks.com/new2002 In-Reply-To: <000b01c1716b$97210ed0$080a000a@HEISENBERG> Message-ID: <000001c1716d$ea1c9440$75c263d8@75ctt01> http://www.magisnetworks.com/new2002 Hey there. Let's see. First off, I would move that left hand copyright stuff to the bottom of the page. It's traditional and that space that you're utilizing would better be taken up with what you have actually put at the bottom: news, events and jobs. If you must have a left hand column (and you might consider not) then put that stuff there. Shouldn't all of those items be linked up, as well? It's a pity that the 'Here and Now' can't change. Can the design of the 'here and now' change? Because it seems really uncongruous and not as polished as the logo. I don't like the photo. I should be sharper if possible. Got a better picture? Maybe you could at least futz with it so that the logo is visible on the chip. For some reason, I thought they were speakers until I really looked and read the "caption" (which is too far from the picture) and then looked again to figure it out. The diagram is pretty good except I think you need to call out that Air5 better. Make it red or something. You might also want to fade, move or remove the line that crosses over it which outlines the "ceiling". Also, the rollovers on the text take forever to load. You could preload the 'on' state to make them faster or just go for text. Under product the links on that page didn't take me anywhere. It looks okay but it's lacking cohesion. Stick with the simplicity but line things up better and just think about your information flow. What is your flexibility exactly with the "Here and now"? Color? Font? Background circles? Alignment? Size? It's not working the way it is and I could make some suggestions if there's room to wiggle. - amanda From andrew at thepander.co.nz Mon Nov 19 20:46:28 2001 From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg) Date: Mon Nov 19 20:46:28 2001 Subject: [thelist] site check: www.magisnetworks.com/new2002 In-Reply-To: <000b01c1716b$97210ed0$080a000a@HEISENBERG> References: <000b01c1716b$97210ed0$080a000a@HEISENBERG> Message-ID: >The logo and the 'Here and Now' graphic are emphatically non-negotiable, per >the marketing folks. Comments on anything else are solicited - colors, >design code. Hi! Two things jump out at me straightaway: 1) The TV is facing the wall in the illustration on the home page :) 2) I think the whole thing would hold together better if there was at least one strong block of colour integrated into the design. One way to achieve (2) would be to try reversing the primary and secondary navigation bars out of the deep blue colour in the middle bubble of the Magis logo; extending the navigation block full width, and dropping the Magis Air5 chipset down beneath it. Maybe then the copyright and contact details could be placed at the very bottom of the page reversed out of a similar, but thinner, band of either the light blue bubble colour, or the deeper blue. Then you could replace the green hover with a paler blue (since it's reversed out of a deep blue), or find some other way to get rid of the green. :) Cheers Andrew -- Andrew Forsberg --- uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/ the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/ From seyon at delime.com Mon Nov 19 20:50:00 2001 From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon) Date: Mon Nov 19 20:50:00 2001 Subject: [thelist] site check: www.magisnetworks.com/new2002 In-Reply-To: <000b01c1716b$97210ed0$080a000a@HEISENBERG> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011119224615.00a421e0@mail.delime.com> I'm curious about the hierarchical weight given to the 'Air5', as implied by it being listed in the main top navigation alongside 'Product'. Isn't the 'Air5' a product, or the product? If I'm following the link to Air5, to view information about the Air5 product, what info should I expect to see when I follow the 'Product' link? Of course I could be terribly off base here and just not understand what I'm seeing. If I am, apologies. regards. -marc At 11/19/2001 06:32 PM, you wrote: >Comments on anything else are solicited - colors, design code. > >http://www.magisnetworks.com/new2002 From emailus at carbonchip.com Mon Nov 19 21:37:50 2001 From: emailus at carbonchip.com (Carbon Chip) Date: Mon Nov 19 21:37:50 2001 Subject: [thelist] Cross-Browser script In-Reply-To: <003301c1714c$73b6d660$be040c50@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: matt i have one that i pulled together for CSS selection based on browser type. only identifies IE/NS underWin/Mac at mo, but code is rudimentary enough to be extensible to all OS's/platforms/browsers. it can pull some neat tricks, ie pull some great effects in IE4++, and then leave out any conflicting stuff that plagues NS and Opera. sample as: used at: www.approvedinternet.com hope this is of some help. banrett banrett at carbonchip.com -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Matt Biscay Sent: 19 November 2001 22:48 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Cross-Browser script Hi everyone, I have a problem with finding a correct cross browser script that will display my pages correctly in both IE and Opera (i did not check Nestcape). I had written a script in php and the display was great but some search engines seem to get confused. Do you have any ideas ? I heard there was some possibility in Javascript but I want to use a single page (no redirects to several pages). Thanks a lot, ----- Matt Biscay http://www.skyminds.net/ --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From emailus at carbonchip.com Mon Nov 19 21:37:53 2001 From: emailus at carbonchip.com (Carbon Chip) Date: Mon Nov 19 21:37:53 2001 Subject: [thelist] site check: www.magisnetworks.com/new2002 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: i'd drop the body copy text size down a point or two - looks a *little* garish in IE5. also make the three items at the bottom into links (if they have pages - they seem to invite further exploration). nice sense of space tho. banrett -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Forsberg Sent: 20 November 2001 02:48 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] site check: www.magisnetworks.com/new2002 >The logo and the 'Here and Now' graphic are emphatically non-negotiable, per >the marketing folks. Comments on anything else are solicited - colors, >design code. Hi! Two things jump out at me straightaway: 1) The TV is facing the wall in the illustration on the home page :) 2) I think the whole thing would hold together better if there was at least one strong block of colour integrated into the design. One way to achieve (2) would be to try reversing the primary and secondary navigation bars out of the deep blue colour in the middle bubble of the Magis logo; extending the navigation block full width, and dropping the Magis Air5 chipset down beneath it. Maybe then the copyright and contact details could be placed at the very bottom of the page reversed out of a similar, but thinner, band of either the light blue bubble colour, or the deeper blue. Then you could replace the green hover with a paler blue (since it's reversed out of a deep blue), or find some other way to get rid of the green. :) Cheers Andrew -- Andrew Forsberg --- uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/ the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/ --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From jeff at members.evolt.org Mon Nov 19 21:41:46 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Mon Nov 19 21:41:46 2001 Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Pop-up Window In-Reply-To: <001701c17166$2d3649e0$0e3d4d18@Dell8100> Message-ID: beau, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Beau Hartshorne > > is called from an tag, like so: href="javaScript:okDialogHIGH();">High Speed, in > IE 6/Win2k, the popup window gets opened in the > background. This problem does not appear at all in > Netscape 6.2. > > Here's the page: http://www.edgemont.tv/backlot/post.asp ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< i'm guessing they caused by the following code in the documents opened in the popup: get ride of that function and the call to it in the onload event handler and i believe this problem will go away. another thing -- is there any reason to alienate non-js enabled users? i sure don't see one. to fix this, move the function call to the onclick event handler and add a return false statement. place the location of the page in your href attribute to make it available to your non-js users. High or, combine both functions into one and pass the url of the document you want to open in the new window. function openWin(wLoc) { var newWin = window.open(winLoc, 'popup', 'resizable,scrollbars,height=200,width=325'); if(newWin.focus) newWin.focus(); } then, you can call it like this: High good luck, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 20 00:53:38 2001 From: tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com (Lachlan Cannon) Date: Tue Nov 20 00:53:38 2001 Subject: [thelist] Need an XML starting-point/how-to In-Reply-To: <20011119181919.6B34E51F4C@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <20011120065648.28658.qmail@web12308.mail.yahoo.com> I'd like to add another parsing xml with php article or two to the list, assuming someone hasn't beaten me to it. I really need to change over from digest mode. Anyway Transform Your PHP with XSLT http://www.webmasterbase.com/article/602 PHP and XML: Parsing RSS 1.0 http://www.webmasterbase.com/article/560 Lachlan Cannon {Luminosity} __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 From joel at spinhead.com Tue Nov 20 01:09:45 2001 From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield) Date: Tue Nov 20 01:09:45 2001 Subject: [thelist] site check: www.magisnetworks.com/new2002 In-Reply-To: <000b01c1716b$97210ed0$080a000a@HEISENBERG> Message-ID: <000601c17192$e8c62c30$6401a8c0@eratosthenes> This wasn't too clear. I'll give myself a spanking later. Thanks for wading thru it and feeding back in spite of my muddiness. The site's nowhere near done, just at a point that I need to make some decisions before I pop in the content and make the links live. Yes, the news items at the bottom of the home page will link to the appropriate spots, as you assumed they should. banrett - the font size question came up today. Smaller is probably going to happen. Marc, I've been so 'head down' that I didn't even ask that obvious question. Yup, Air5 will be our product. So, I'll pass your excellent question along and see what shakes. Andrew - *sputter* >snort< ouch! My sides hurt! I'm sure glad I didn't put that TV there! Maybe there's a peep-hole thru the wall. Geez; obviously the company that did the graphics didn't have a mailing list they could get feedback from ;) Re: strong block of color - yup; I think that was a step backwards from the original, but I wasn't sure how to achieve it and the design folks aren't being much help. I'll let you know when I've got a mock-up of your idea; I like it. Don't like the green? I'd really like to get away from white/blue/blue everywhere, and this green and a pale orange are about the only changes in the official color palette. Amanda - agreed on the ©/news switch. Our director of mktg has always done it this way, but I think she's open to suggestion. I've hated the bubbles (yup; they're supposed to be bubbles) behind the 'H&N' since day one. If you've got suggestions, dear, fire away. Even if They don't listen, I might learn something! Re: the rollovers, I'll check my code. I thunk they was workin' but I'll check again. Looking at it again, it's clear what y'all are saying about cohesion and simplicity. I've rapidly moved from junior coder to lead designer, and I think I'm flailing around just a bit. Thanks for the feedback. I'll be back. joel at spinhead.com -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of spinhead Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 6:32 PM To: thelist Subject: [thelist] site check: www.magisnetworks.com/new2002 Okay, after the last round of suggestions (thanks esp. rudy and /rg) we've progressed and are ready for further input. The logo and the 'Here and Now' graphic are emphatically non-negotiable, per the marketing folks. Comments on anything else are solicited - colors, design code. I've tested in IE6, NN6, and Opera 5 on PC; newest versions of IE and NN on Mac OS9, and Opera, NN and Lynx on Linux; all at 800x600 and 1024x768. Older browser checks would be helpful. http://www.magisnetworks.com/new2002 Thanks heaps. spinhead --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From andrew at thepander.co.nz Tue Nov 20 03:55:56 2001 From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg) Date: Tue Nov 20 03:55:56 2001 Subject: [thelist] site check: www.magisnetworks.com/new2002 In-Reply-To: <000601c17192$e8c62c30$6401a8c0@eratosthenes> References: <000601c17192$e8c62c30$6401a8c0@eratosthenes> Message-ID: >Andrew - *sputter* >snort< ouch! My sides hurt! I'm sure glad I didn't >put that TV there! Maybe there's a peep-hole thru the wall. Geez; >obviously the company that did the graphics didn't have a mailing list >they could get feedback from ;) Doh! :) >Don't like the green? I'd really like to get away >from white/blue/blue everywhere, and this green and a pale orange are >about the only changes in the official color palette. To be honest: no, I don't like green. At least, I don't like pale-ish green on white. Never have liked it, especially not since working at a tertiary institute where the corporate colour was green, and their academic staff's induction manual was entirely green type on white stock. Argh! If you can work other colours in, then how about the occasional block of orange and deep blue-black, with the existing greys, blacks, and lighter blues? Grey isn't just grey, either: there are cool and warm greys (neutral + blue vs neutral + red). Green is something that needs to be used carefully, I think -- since you're stuck with blue (which is generally a cold, reflective, corporate, un-emotive colour) the odd splash of something a bit warmer would help. I'd bank on a red / orange / warm-grey over a green any day. :) It's nearly 11pm, and memories of that manual have driven me to gin. Good luck, let us know when the next updates good to go! Cheers Andrew -- Andrew Forsberg --- uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/ the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/ From evolt at georgedillon.com Tue Nov 20 05:49:47 2001 From: evolt at georgedillon.com (George Dillon <> Evolt!) Date: Tue Nov 20 05:49:47 2001 Subject: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions on thelist (was Protecting against ... sp@m) References: <20011114063051.D649F51F95@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <003501c171b9$da7d0780$e6c92cc3@athlon800> Sorry about this ramble - almost a rant, really - penance (tip) below. I recently replied to a list question off-list and got this in return: > Thanks for the reply. I was beginning to feel like I was > blacklisted or have bad breath, as this was the third posting to > Evolt that I recieved absolutely no response to whatsoever. Not > that I'm greedy, but c'mon! ;-) Intrigued, and having had the same paranoid (and frustrated) feelings on several past occasions, I searched my archive of evolt messages for the said unanswered postings, and was surprised to find that I had to go back some way to find one and that before I did I found numerous courteous and helpful replies to other people from this complainant. I thought maybe it was how they had formulated their questions, or maybe their questions have no answer! I've sometimes thought that certain days of the week are bad days for asking questions, as are certain times of day but I don't know if this is really true. Writing questions can be quite an art. Most list guidelines say, and it's not just good netiquette but a good tactic for getting replies, that the most important thing is to keep the question as short and as precise as possible. I used to think that by giving as much info as possible, and anticipating all the possible incomplete answers I was making it more likely that someone would give me the magic bullet... WRONG! Long messages (like this one) are simply less likely to get read, or if they are they will be skimmed. So the thing is to cut out everything that is not essential to the question and if the explanation of the problem is moderately long, repeat and flag your question clearly, e.g.: Q. What is the answer to this question? Over-simplification is not so bad as over-elaboration - the worst that can happen is that people will respond with answers that don't exactly fit your problem or they will ask you for more info... either way, you've got that extended helping hand and you can then explain your problem in more detail to them (off-list if necessary). But having said all that, I could see nothing wrong with the aforementioned unanswered post... so I guess shit just happens sometimes. As for the particular unanswered question... It was actually extremely well-formulated and I remembered reading it and thinking the questions raised were of vital concern to us all (as the problem could hit any one of us at any time) and I expected a flurry of replies... so why were there none? I don't know. Maybe the word SPAM in the title put people off reading it at all (or even had the message blocked). So... (with apologies for breaching list guidelines)... here it is again... > My client is receiving irate replies from victims of a spammer > who is using randomly-generated mailbox names under her domain. > > We all know you can type whatever REPLY-TO address you want to > into just about any client or webmail app... and also that > end-users are uninterested in looking at mail headers to > fingerprint the actual source of an email. > > The message content included a clickthrough to > which was there last week and gone now (no surprise there.) > > Question: > > 1) Is there *any* recourse whatsoever for this kind of thing? Want to quickly test pages in a ver3 browser (to see how your doodads don't), but don't want ie3 or nn3 screwing with your later versions? Unlike other supposedly tiny browsers, OffbyOne does NOT rely the IE engine and come as a download of just 420k! >From their site: http://offbyone.com/ "The Off By One Web Browser may be the world's smallest and fastest Web Browser with full HTML 3.2 support. It is a completely self-contained, stand-alone 1.1MB application with no dependencies on any other browser or browser component. For Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows NT and Windows 2000." As one would expect, Fred Langa ( http://www.langalist.com ) reports it to be "very parsimonious in its use of system resources: On a test system here, the OffByOne browser consumed only about 3% of system resources in use, versus 13% for Navigator and 6% for IE." It's also now in the evolt browser archive: http://browsers.evolt.org/ From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com Tue Nov 20 06:19:26 2001 From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch) Date: Tue Nov 20 06:19:26 2001 Subject: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions on thelist (was Protecting against ... Message-ID: >Long messages (like this one) are simply less likely to get read, or if >they >are they will be skimmed. So the thing is to cut out everything that is >not >essential to the question and if the explanation of the problem is >moderately long, repeat and flag your question clearly, e.g.: > >Q. What is the answer to this question? > >Over-simplification is not so bad as over-elaboration - the worst that can >happen is that people will respond with answers that don't exactly fit your >problem or they will ask you for more info... either way, you've got that >extended helping hand and you can then explain your problem in more detail >to them (off-list if necessary). I couldn't agree more. The only time I reject a post as being too short is when the writer doesn't mention vital information, like the browser he has problems with or a URL (in case of a complicated question). Sometimes I ask for more info, more often I delete the posting. Also, what is *very* important is a good title for the message. I get about 400 mails per day from about 10 to 15 mailing lists (can't remember exactly how many) and I routinely delete about 75 to 90% of them unread. 'Please help', 'I don't know', 'Question' => trash bin. >But having said all that, I could see nothing wrong with the aforementioned >unanswered post... so I guess shit just happens sometimes. The problem, I think, is that there is no answer to this question (see below). Even the best written mail fails if no one knows. > > My client is receiving irate replies from victims of a spammer > > who is using randomly-generated mailbox names under her domain. > > > > We all know you can type whatever REPLY-TO address you want to > > into just about any client or webmail app... and also that > > end-users are uninterested in looking at mail headers to > > fingerprint the actual source of an email. > > > > The message content included a clickthrough to > > which was there last week and gone now (no surprise there.) > > > > Question: > > > > 1) Is there *any* recourse whatsoever for this kind of thing? Unfortunately, no (as far as I know). If her mail server is abused for sending spam it can be helped, but not if her domain is being used. The spammer just fills in an email address in his spam, and you can't prevent that. The best thing she can do is create a standard reply that explains she can't help it and advises people to subscribe to http://spamcop.net and complain about spam through this service. ppk _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lists at nynjdesign.com Tue Nov 20 06:35:16 2001 From: lists at nynjdesign.com (lists at nynjdesign.com) Date: Tue Nov 20 06:35:16 2001 Subject: [thelist] WebTool Message-ID: Hi all, I haven't seen this mentioned here--it's a very useful tool, still in development. Freeware. ******** "The Webtool is a must for any HTML coder. Ever wanted to instantly see all the forms, images or styles on a page? Ever wanted to see how the tables are laid out on your favorite site? Well now you can, and you can also see them on any page on the net! Webtools manipulates the HTML that you view, providing reports and that hard to find information that will make you wonder why you ever 'Viewed Source'. To use open up Internet Explorer 5 (or greater, PC only - sorry) and navigate to a page. Use the Webtool button you want for instant reports and information..." http://www.iconico.com/webtool/ ******** Bev From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Nov 20 07:58:32 2001 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Nov 20 07:58:32 2001 Subject: [thelist] ™ in Opera on Linux In-Reply-To: <000501c17161$ae3af3b0$080a000a@HEISENBERG> Message-ID: <200111201358.fAKDwVlu030411@leo.evolt.org> > From: "spinhead" > > Tried > > ™ > > and it displayed as text. Now I tried > > ™ > > and it just leaves a blank space. Displays fine in my copies of > Mozilla, Netscape, and Lynx on Linux; IE and NN on Mac, and IE, NN, > and Opera on PC (all recent versions.) well, i think that leaves only one other option: ™ won't validate, but will display... doncha hate that? From IanOrnstein at NC.SLR.com Tue Nov 20 07:59:18 2001 From: IanOrnstein at NC.SLR.com (Ornstein, Ian) Date: Tue Nov 20 07:59:18 2001 Subject: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions on thelist Message-ID: <313308805876D511BB8B00D0B7B961F53CC480@excnc4.nc.slr.com> I worked as a contract programmer at DEC from 1982 to 1984. Early on I was introduced to the threaded discussions called Notes. There were discussions on work topics and non work topics. I presume that the non work related topics were tolerated as a training facility for the employees. Notes was world wide. I'd often post a question before I left in the evening and have a reply from across the world when I arrived the next morning. It took a while to get a feel for the sentence structure and vocabulary of successful questions. On new products, the developers were eager for feedback and would be quite helpful. On mature products, you needed to find a dedicated user. I do remember asking a question and after the reply arrived. A Email message arrived say that he had asked the same question before and received no replies. He thanked me for the way I asked the question that received the reply. It might just have been chance, or maybe I set the stage correctly to make it convenient for someone to reply; we will never know. Of course, as the years went by I became the replier. You cannot keep taking with out contributing. - IanO - From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Nov 20 08:07:01 2001 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Nov 20 08:07:01 2001 Subject: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions on thelist (was Protecting against ... sp@m) In-Reply-To: <003501c171b9$da7d0780$e6c92cc3@athlon800> Message-ID: <200111201407.fAKE70lu030927@leo.evolt.org> > From: "George Dillon <> Evolt!" [...] > Intrigued, and having had the same paranoid (and frustrated) feelings > on several past occasions, I searched my archive of evolt messages for > the said unanswered postings, and was surprised to find that I had to > go back some way to find one and that before I did I found numerous > courteous and helpful replies to other people from this complainant. if it's any consolation, i think i've asked about 10 questions this year, and i've gotten no replies to 5 of them, and less than 5 replies to the rest... it can be frustrating, but i suspect it's simply because no one has the answer... i know i, for one, now delete entire threads without reading (500+ messages a day requires it), so if a thread changes to something else, it gets missed... i also don't bother with threads/questions that i know other people are conversant in, since they'll usually pipe up before i can anyway... and the remaining lack of replies on my part are because i don't know the answer (although if i see a post with no reply, i'll at least try a response)... this *is* a relatively high-traffic list, things get missed in the din... [...] > I've sometimes thought that certain days of the week are bad days for > asking questions, as are certain times of day but I don't know if this > is really true. [...] no, that is true... saturdays/sundays seem to be low traffic and people miss threads when they come back in on monday... [...] > > > > My client is receiving irate replies from victims of a spammer > > who is using randomly-generated mailbox names under her domain. [...] > > 1) Is there *any* recourse whatsoever for this kind of thing? and i still don't have an answer, other than "no." From muinar at gmx.net Tue Nov 20 09:27:13 2001 From: muinar at gmx.net (muinar) Date: Tue Nov 20 09:27:13 2001 Subject: [thelist] Email Form Without Line Breaks In-Reply-To: <000201c17137$fd71fb10$0200a8c0@BOISNET2> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011118231804.00a542c0@mail.gmx.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011120161927.00a11ec0@mail.gmx.net> Thanks Bob I must admit that I didn't know before about VbCrLf and VbCrLf _ is this Outlook-specific coding? Ususally I type \n for line breaks, or I just made another line, like this: adminBody="Email: $email\nPhone: $phone\nMessage: $message"; or adminBody=" Email: $email Phone: $phone Message: $message"; ... and then I send the whole string with the mail() command (I'm using PHP). This worked fine so far, but one customer claims that after we moved to a new server, he gets the whole output concatenated in one line! Strange thing is, when I test it here with my Eudora everything is fine! There is something I don't understand - a line break which works for Eudora, and not for Outlook, how is this possible? Any help appreciated Mike At 15:23 19.11.01 -0500, you wrote: >This is an example from an ASP page I have made to process the form fields > >from the web to Outlook but not necessarily Outlook only..The form being >used is here http://www.calvarylargo.org > >txtEmailBody = txtDate & VbCrLf & VbCrLf _ > & txtSalutation & " " & txtFirstName & " " & > txtLastName & VbCrLf _ > & txtAddress & VbCrLf _ > & txtPhone & VbCrLf _ > & "Email Address: " & txtEmail & VbCrLf _ > & "Best day to reach: " & txtDayToReach & > VbCrLf & VbCrLf _ > & "Request : " & txtRequest & VbCrLf & > VbCrLf _ > & "Boxes checked on form: " & VbCrLf & > txtBoxesChecked > >Where the VbCrLf & VbCrLf _ signify the line break and the _ is the end of >line. It produces a much cleaner output to Outlook. > >Hope this helps. >Bob > >-----Original Message----- >From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org >[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of muinar >Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 2:24 AM >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >Subject: [thelist] Email Form Without Line Breaks > > >Hello > >Is it possible to screw up something in Outlook so that Emails, sent out > >from a web form, are displayed without line breaks? > >When I test the form, I get Emails like that: > >Name: test >Address: test >Phone: test > . > . > . > >Customer on Outlook gets it like that: > >Name: test Address: test Phone: test... > >I currently have no copy of Outlook here, so I hope someone of you has >some experience with this kind of issue... > >Thanks a lot > >Mike From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com Tue Nov 20 09:34:56 2001 From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse) Date: Tue Nov 20 09:34:56 2001 Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello people, We have a compaq prolient network server that has Windows 2000 Server installed. We have 5 NT workstations used by our developers - everything has been fine until about 2 weeks ago. Suddenly when clicking on NetWork Neigborhood nothing showed up - i though i might have a bug or something that has developed over time and corrupted a file somewhere - but no - this was not that case - now we have all 5 NT workstations that occassionally lose the network neighborhood - you can use Find a computer to see the pc you want to connect to - but this isn't great. This has also started to happen on a couple of the Windows 98 machines we have aswell. I was wondering if anyone out there has come across this problem before with Windows 2000 Server supporting NT Workstations or has any clue why this has started to happen? All the NT Workstations have the latest Service pack and have been working fine. Any help would be greatly appreciated - I am at a loss and our Network admin guy is at a loss aswell - and theres no mention of this problem anywhere on the micorsoft support area. Many thanks Paul Backhouse From djc at members.evolt.org Tue Nov 20 09:40:44 2001 From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 20 09:40:44 2001 Subject: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions on thelist References: <20011114063051.D649F51F95@relay.evolt.org> <003501c171b9$da7d0780$e6c92cc3@athlon800> Message-ID: <3BF9985D.5050501@members.evolt.org> Hey George :) I just wanted to touch on a couple of your points.. George Dillon <> Evolt! wrote: > I've sometimes thought that certain days of the week are bad days for asking > questions, as are certain times of day but I don't know if this is really > true. i would say monday is the worst time for asking questions. the majority of people are just too busy catching up from the weekend to provide in-depth answers. if i had to say the best day, it would be friday. the only reason for that is maybe people are sitting around the office waiting to leave, looking for anything to do :) > Long messages (like this one) are simply less likely to get read, or if they > are they will be skimmed. So the thing is to cut out everything that is not > essential to the question and if the explanation of the problem is > moderately long, repeat and flag your question clearly, e.g.: i couldn't agree with this more. although long posts *can be* beneficial and helpfull, more often than not, they address things outside the original question in such amounts that the question gets lost in the noise. if the long post is long because its going in depth about the problem, its more likely too be read. if a long post is long because it skips around and addresses points other than the question, its less likely to be read. if you think about it, i'd say 50% of the people on this list read a message based on the subject(i know i do most of the time). if the subject is something which i may want to read about, and i open the message up only to find a 5 page dissertation about the way someone may be doing something without regard to their question(question about 'How do I do this in Netscape 4.x?' comes back with a reply about how shitty NS4 is and standards and blah-blah), the [del] key gets hit pretty fast. 90% of the time, people *are* looking for a quick answer when asking a quick question. anyways, i'm notorious myself for blabbing on, so i'll cut it short here with one final thing.. If someone asks a question and you don't get a reply, don't take it personally. :) Wait 3-5 days and ask again politely.. Perhaps the person or people who may have the answer to your question were busy the first time it was asked, or simply didn't see it. But don't get discouraged and don't give up :) .djc. From kristina at kfx-design.co.uk Tue Nov 20 09:42:20 2001 From: kristina at kfx-design.co.uk (kristina) Date: Tue Nov 20 09:42:20 2001 Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67109436401.20011120154533@kfx-design.co.uk> Paul, on Tuesday, November 20, 2001, 3:37:23 PM, Paul wrote: :: > Suddenly when clicking on NetWork Neigborhood nothing showed up - i though i :: I had this exact same problem on my W2k machine, the only way I found to solve it was reinstalling W2k - Probably not the answer you wanted to hear.... At a guess I reckon it had something to do with the way W2k was first installed. I'd be interested to know if anyone else had this problem and knew how to solve it, as it was most bizarre! -- hth kristina kristina at kfx-design.co.uk "When written in Chinese, the word 'crisis' is composed of two characters. One represents danger, and the other represents opportunity." -- John F. Kennedy From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com Tue Nov 20 09:47:13 2001 From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse) Date: Tue Nov 20 09:47:13 2001 Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation In-Reply-To: <67109436401.20011120154533@kfx-design.co.uk> Message-ID: Kristina >I had this exact same problem on my W2k machine, the only way I >found to solve it was reinstalling W2k it really strange - cheers for the advice though, don't think we'll reinstall - there just has to be another way. cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of kristina Sent: 20 November 2001 15:46 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation Paul, on Tuesday, November 20, 2001, 3:37:23 PM, Paul wrote: :: > Suddenly when clicking on NetWork Neigborhood nothing showed up - i though i :: I had this exact same problem on my W2k machine, the only way I found to solve it was reinstalling W2k - Probably not the answer you wanted to hear.... At a guess I reckon it had something to do with the way W2k was first installed. I'd be interested to know if anyone else had this problem and knew how to solve it, as it was most bizarre! -- hth kristina kristina at kfx-design.co.uk "When written in Chinese, the word 'crisis' is composed of two characters. One represents danger, and the other represents opportunity." -- John F. Kennedy --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Nov 20 10:03:18 2001 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Nov 20 10:03:18 2001 Subject: [thelist] Email Form Without Line Breaks In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20011120161927.00a11ec0@mail.gmx.net> References: <000201c17137$fd71fb10$0200a8c0@BOISNET2> Message-ID: <200111201603.fAKG3Hlu002270@leo.evolt.org> > From: muinar [...] > I must admit that I didn't know before about VbCrLf and VbCrLf _ > is this Outlook-specific coding? that's VBSript... on the server... before it sends it out... can i make a suggestion, though? create your email as one string... take this string, and write it to screen during development within a 
 block...

use what you see in the 
 to tell you how it will look in the 
email client...

now, you know exactly what to expect, and because it's just one 
big string, you can output it to all sorts of things, like email, flat 
files, comments on the receipt page, or even show the user the 
email as it will appear...

does that make sense?




From joel at spinhead.com  Tue Nov 20 10:09:17 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Tue Nov 20 10:09:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions on thelist (was Protecting against ...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <002201c171de$13b87a60$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

My first thought is the virus ostensibly about snow white. Nearly every
time you receive one, you receive a disclaimer from the domain owner
announcing that they're not responsible, they're being scammed, and
here's how you can get virus protection. At least it's not a black hole.
They're saying SOMETHING which may or may not be better than silence.

joel at spinhead.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Peter-Paul Koch
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 4:23 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions on thelist (was
Protecting against ...


[ . . . ]

The problem, I think, is that there is no answer to this question (see 
below).  Even the best written mail fails if no one knows.

> > My client is receiving irate replies from victims of a spammer who 
> > is using randomly-generated mailbox names under her domain.
> >
> > We all know you can type whatever REPLY-TO address you want to into 
> > just about any client or webmail app... and also that end-users are 
> > uninterested in looking at mail headers to fingerprint the actual 
> > source of an email.
> >
> > The message content included a clickthrough to  which 
> > was there last week and gone now (no surprise there.)
> >
> > Question:
> >
> > 1) Is there *any* recourse whatsoever for this kind of thing?

Unfortunately, no (as far as I know). If her mail server is abused for 
sending spam it can be helped, but not if her domain is being used. The 
spammer just fills in an email address in his spam, and you can't
prevent 
that.

The best thing she can do is create a standard reply that explains she
can't 
help it and advises people to subscribe to http://spamcop.net and
complain 
about spam through this service.

ppk

_____




From ed at edcourtenay.co.uk  Tue Nov 20 10:19:51 2001
From: ed at edcourtenay.co.uk (Ed Courtenay)
Date: Tue Nov 20 10:19:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Drawing XML Content into URLs in an XSL Doc
In-Reply-To: <003c01c170d1$4cfed750$4501000a@milcap.com>
Message-ID: 

It's about time that I contributed a tip, and you got me thinking with your
comment about parameters:



If you're using XSL in ASP, and you want to insert parameters into your XSL
transformations, remember that the IXSLTProcessor object contains the
functionality you need. It's a bit more verbose than normal, but looks like:

		Set oOutput = Server.CreateObject("MSXML2.FreeThreadedDOMDocument")
		Set xslTemplate = Server.CreateObject("MSXML2.XSLTemplate")
		xslTemplate.stylesheet = oStyle
		Set oProcessor = xslTemplate.createProcessor

		oProcessor.input = oSource
		oProcessor.output = oOutput

		For Each Item In Request.QueryString
			oProcessor.addParameter CStr(Item), CStr(Request.QueryString(Item))
		Next

		oProcessor.transform

where oStyle and oSource are MSXML2.FreeThreadedDOMDocument objects with the
appropriate XSL and XML documents pre-loaded. In this way, any XSL document
that has a paramater specified with the same name as an entry on the
QueryString will have it's contents set.



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott Adamson
Sent: 19 November 2001 08:08
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Drawing XML Content into URLs in an XSL Doc


if you are passing a parameter to the page i cant help you on that one, ive
never donw that before, i normally merge the xml/xsl on the server in asp
and add extra nodes for the passed parameters.

things to look out for are that your select is in the rigt place

as in

  
    
      some text
    
  


  
    
      some more text
    
  



calling select="text" will get you nothing unless you are in a   or a template match for */xml

you could use  and that would
pull just the first item.

if i hear anything about passing params and using the value ill post it on.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Megan Holbrook" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Drawing XML Content into URLs in an XSL Doc


> Thanks to both evolters who responded to my question with suggestions -
> unfortunately, now I seem to have a different problem. I tried both:
>
>  select="url"/> select="thetextofthelink">
>
> and
>
>   select="thetextofthelink">
>
> ...and both returned links that had empty hrefs...is there something
> else I need to be doing?
>
> Thanks so much for the help...
>
> :) M.
>
> Craig Saila wrote:
> >
> > Megan Holbrook wrote:
> >
> > > What's wrong with using:
> > > "> ?
> >
> > You can also try:
> > blah
> >
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Craig Saila
> > ------------------------------------------
> > craig at saila.com  :  http://www.saila.com/
> > ------------------------------------------
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
> --
> Megan Holbrook - megan at kapow.com
> Partner - Business Development
> kapow, inc. (www.kapow.com)
>
> kapow, inc. Milwaukee               kapow, inc. Los Angeles
> 2405 E. Wyoming Place               2130 Sawtelle Blvd, #302A
> Milwaukee, WI 53202                 Los Angeles, CA 90025
> T: 414-273-2446 * F: 419-793-6271   T: 310-479-2020 * F: 310-473-3711
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From ed at edcourtenay.co.uk  Tue Nov 20 10:19:53 2001
From: ed at edcourtenay.co.uk (Ed Courtenay)
Date: Tue Nov 20 10:19:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Drawing XML Content into URLs in an XSL Doc
In-Reply-To: <003c01c170d1$4cfed750$4501000a@milcap.com>
Message-ID: 

I don't know if this will help you or not, but I thought a working example
might help you on your way. This is the XML/XSL transformation I use for my
links list in the right hand sidebar on my site
(http://www.edcourtenay.co.uk):

links.xml
---------



	
		The company I work for
	
	
		James Shaw's great ASP site
	
	
		An excellent resource fot all things .NET
	
	
		Phil South's rather spanky site, full of 3D goodness!
	
	
		_Pablo presents a web site? Cool!
	
	
		Active ISP - my current ISP, quite good actually...
	
	
		Workers of the Web, Evolt!
	
	
		From the secret files of Max Cannon...
	
	
		The daily comic strip for geeks. Cool!
	
	
		Bizarre. Hilarious. Definately for Adults only. A must see!
	


links.xsl
---------




	

	
		
	



Hope that helps...


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott Adamson
Sent: 19 November 2001 08:08
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Drawing XML Content into URLs in an XSL Doc


if you are passing a parameter to the page i cant help you on that one, ive
never donw that before, i normally merge the xml/xsl on the server in asp
and add extra nodes for the passed parameters.

things to look out for are that your select is in the rigt place

as in

  
    
      some text
    
  


  
    
      some more text
    
  



calling select="text" will get you nothing unless you are in a   or a template match for */xml

you could use  and that would
pull just the first item.

if i hear anything about passing params and using the value ill post it on.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Megan Holbrook" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Drawing XML Content into URLs in an XSL Doc


> Thanks to both evolters who responded to my question with suggestions -
> unfortunately, now I seem to have a different problem. I tried both:
>
>  select="url"/> select="thetextofthelink">
>
> and
>
>   select="thetextofthelink">
>
> ...and both returned links that had empty hrefs...is there something
> else I need to be doing?
>
> Thanks so much for the help...
>
> :) M.
>
> Craig Saila wrote:
> >
> > Megan Holbrook wrote:
> >
> > > What's wrong with using:
> > > "> ?
> >
> > You can also try:
> > blah
> >
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Craig Saila
> > ------------------------------------------
> > craig at saila.com  :  http://www.saila.com/
> > ------------------------------------------
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
> --
> Megan Holbrook - megan at kapow.com
> Partner - Business Development
> kapow, inc. (www.kapow.com)
>
> kapow, inc. Milwaukee               kapow, inc. Los Angeles
> 2405 E. Wyoming Place               2130 Sawtelle Blvd, #302A
> Milwaukee, WI 53202                 Los Angeles, CA 90025
> T: 414-273-2446 * F: 419-793-6271   T: 310-479-2020 * F: 310-473-3711
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From ben_gustafson at lionbridge.com  Tue Nov 20 10:20:18 2001
From: ben_gustafson at lionbridge.com (Ben Gustafson)
Date: Tue Nov 20 10:20:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] ™ in Opera on Linux
Message-ID: <3BFA83A9.6B72A131@lionbridge.com>

Hello spinhead,

Give ™ a try.

--Ben
________________
Ben Gustafson
Lionbridge Technologies, Inc.
www.lionbridge.com


Tried

™

and it displayed as text. Now I tried

™

and it just leaves a blank space. Displays fine in my copies of Mozilla,
Netscape, and Lynx on Linux; IE and NN on Mac, and IE, NN, and Opera on
PC
(all recent versions.)

spinhead




From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 20 10:54:44 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Tue Nov 20 10:54:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Form Without Line Breaks
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20011120161927.00a11ec0@mail.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20011120165757.63902.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com>

Mike:

VbCrLf is a visual basic (ASP) CR/LF insertion. It is good (no
matter what client the mails will be recieved on) to insert a
CRLF to end a line. Also, Outlook may be stripping extra
linebreaks. There's a function in Outlook to remove extra
linebreaks, and this may be causing your problem if there's not a
true CR/LF in the message body.

/rg

--- muinar  wrote:
> Thanks Bob
> 
> I must admit that I didn't know before about VbCrLf and VbCrLf
> _
> is this Outlook-specific coding?
> 

> There is something I don't understand - a line break which
> works for
> Eudora, and not for Outlook, how is this possible?
> 
> Any help appreciated
> 
> Mike
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1



From irinakruk at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 20 11:00:16 2001
From: irinakruk at yahoo.com (irina kruk)
Date: Tue Nov 20 11:00:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript - insert a movable date
Message-ID: <20011120170329.30929.qmail@web10904.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I am new to javascript and will greatly appreciate
help with my task. 
I need to insert a movable date into a page like so:

<>

The  target date should be 5 days from the "today's
date"...

I have been practicing dates with the script I post
below however, 1. I don't know how to adjust the one I
have. and 2.if I write the script in the head how do I
declare it in the body?  I would appreciate any help
or referral.
Also, the site sits on 'unix' and the url is:
http://www.refer-a-loan.com/training/index.html 



Thank you.
IrinaKruk - Web Developer.	
Email: irinakruk at yahoo.com
==========================
i smile only when its dark. 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1



From bill at webmarketingworx.com  Tue Nov 20 11:07:47 2001
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Tue Nov 20 11:07:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

There is another way - there is an entry in the registry that needs to be
eliminated. Don't remember where or what, but I'll find it momentarily.
Thought I should post before you reinstall, though. Stay tuned!

BH



Kristina
>I had this exact same problem on my W2k machine, the only way I
>found to solve it was reinstalling W2k
it really strange - cheers for the advice though, don't think we'll
reinstall - there just has to be another way.

cheers

paul




From ghunt at hds.ca  Tue Nov 20 11:46:42 2001
From: ghunt at hds.ca (Glenn Hunt)
Date: Tue Nov 20 11:46:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000001c171ec$48d00f20$0300a8c0@glenn>

Are you using a WINS server on the Win2K server? A WINS server is
designed to manage browse lists, etc. All you have to do is turn it on
at the server end, and then go into the TCP/IP properties on the
workstations and define it there. Alternatively, if you are using DHCP,
you can define the WINS server there. It lets you ping machines by name,
etc. - "DNS for Workgroups".

As an aside, I am assuming that the machines are part of the same
workgroup, or better yet, a domain?

Glenn Hunt
ghunt at hds.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Paul Backhouse
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:37 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation


Hello people,



We have a compaq prolient network server that has Windows 2000 Server
installed.

We have 5 NT workstations used by our developers - everything has been
fine until about 2 weeks ago.

Suddenly when clicking on NetWork Neigborhood nothing showed up - i
though i might have a bug or something that has developed over time and
corrupted a file somewhere - but no - this was not that case - now we
have all 5 NT workstations that occassionally lose the network
neighborhood - you can use Find a computer to see the pc you want to
connect to - but this isn't great.

This has also started to happen on a couple of the Windows 98 machines
we have aswell.

I was wondering if anyone out there has come across this problem before
with Windows 2000 Server supporting NT Workstations or has any clue why
this has started to happen?

All the NT Workstations have the latest Service pack and have been
working fine.

Any help would be greatly appreciated - I am at a loss and our Network
admin guy is at a loss aswell - and theres no mention of this problem
anywhere on the micorsoft support area.

Many thanks

Paul Backhouse






---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 





From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Tue Nov 20 11:48:50 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Tue Nov 20 11:48:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation
In-Reply-To: <000001c171ec$48d00f20$0300a8c0@glenn>
Message-ID: 

Glenn,
	 yes all part of the same domain - using DHCP - cheers for your help, il
pass on the infoto on of our guys.

paul

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Glenn Hunt
Sent: 20 November 2001 17:54
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation


Are you using a WINS server on the Win2K server? A WINS server is
designed to manage browse lists, etc. All you have to do is turn it on
at the server end, and then go into the TCP/IP properties on the
workstations and define it there. Alternatively, if you are using DHCP,
you can define the WINS server there. It lets you ping machines by name,
etc. - "DNS for Workgroups".

As an aside, I am assuming that the machines are part of the same
workgroup, or better yet, a domain?

Glenn Hunt
ghunt at hds.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Paul Backhouse
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:37 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation


Hello people,



We have a compaq prolient network server that has Windows 2000 Server
installed.

We have 5 NT workstations used by our developers - everything has been
fine until about 2 weeks ago.

Suddenly when clicking on NetWork Neigborhood nothing showed up - i
though i might have a bug or something that has developed over time and
corrupted a file somewhere - but no - this was not that case - now we
have all 5 NT workstations that occassionally lose the network
neighborhood - you can use Find a computer to see the pc you want to
connect to - but this isn't great.

This has also started to happen on a couple of the Windows 98 machines
we have aswell.

I was wondering if anyone out there has come across this problem before
with Windows 2000 Server supporting NT Workstations or has any clue why
this has started to happen?

All the NT Workstations have the latest Service pack and have been
working fine.

Any help would be greatly appreciated - I am at a loss and our Network
admin guy is at a loss aswell - and theres no mention of this problem
anywhere on the micorsoft support area.

Many thanks

Paul Backhouse






---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From emeyer at lclark.edu  Tue Nov 20 12:16:39 2001
From: emeyer at lclark.edu (Erika Meyer)
Date: Tue Nov 20 12:16:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] digital camera
Message-ID: 

My department has said they are willing to buy a digital camera for 
me to use at work.  It needs to be a good value though.

What I need to do is take good pictures (mostly around campus) for 
the web. I need USB.  I need to be able to take indoors shots without 
having to use flash.  I want to be able to set it to take black & 
white.  I want zoom.  Maybe I want other stuff but I don't know 
enough to say.

Basically, I would use the camera to make photos indoors (portraits & 
objects) and outdoors (buildings, people, vegetation) on campus.  I'd 
then edit them for the web site.  They would not be used for print.

Suggestions for a good value?

Thanks,

Erika
-- 



From martin at takingitglobal.org  Tue Nov 20 12:18:35 2001
From: martin at takingitglobal.org (Martin Kuplens-Ewart)
Date: Tue Nov 20 12:18:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] digital camera
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000001c171f0$66892c00$6e33a8c0@martinlaptop>

Well... Get yourself the Nikon Coolpix 990... Around a thousand bucks,
but well worth it. [see http://www.noahgrey.com for examples of the
possibilities available with this camera]

-martin

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Erika Meyer
Sent: November 20, 2001 1:20 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] digital camera


My department has said they are willing to buy a digital camera for 
me to use at work.  It needs to be a good value though.

What I need to do is take good pictures (mostly around campus) for 
the web. I need USB.  I need to be able to take indoors shots without 
having to use flash.  I want to be able to set it to take black & 
white.  I want zoom.  Maybe I want other stuff but I don't know 
enough to say.

Basically, I would use the camera to make photos indoors (portraits & 
objects) and outdoors (buildings, people, vegetation) on campus.  I'd 
then edit them for the web site.  They would not be used for print.

Suggestions for a good value?

Thanks,

Erika
-- 

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 






From seahorse at inreach.com  Tue Nov 20 12:24:32 2001
From: seahorse at inreach.com (C Williams)
Date: Tue Nov 20 12:24:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] site check: www.magisnetworks.com/new2002
References: <20011120125026.85697BFD6@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <001b01c171f4$75cfdc00$6812d1d1@old98>

What bothers me after looking around is the logo fighting with the here and
now.  When I look at a site, i expect to see the logo stand out.  I am
confused if the company is "here and now' or is it 'magis'.

1.  The copyright and questions comments needs to go at the bottom of the
page.  It will give you room to put valuable content in that space.  You
might want to add the address and phone number...it gives the company more
believability...they really exist....

2.  On the news page, you have information about the company.  I expect to
see news, not company history. (now i am guessing this is a placeholder) I
would bring the News and Events to the top of the page, isnt this what the
page is about?

2a. Why do you have jobs on the news page when you have a link to it on the
main navigation?  I would take this off.

3.  I think your top banner takes up wqy too much real estate. It consumes
1/3 of the page.  I would tighten this up. The bottom 1/3 of every page is
cut off on my screen 800x600 32b IE.

I like the green and blue, but I would add a solid color block in
there...the pages have no weight.

Best wishes,

Chris




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Tue Nov 20 12:36:56 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Tue Nov 20 12:36:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] digital camera
Message-ID: 

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Hi Erika

Not sure if this offers the *best* value for money for what you want,
but I'm very happy with my Sony DSC-P1.

Do you need it to take pictures in B/W, or would it also be OK to
take in colour & drop out the colour later?

All the B/W pics here:
http://www.easyweb.co.uk/pics/morgan/
were taking in colour and just quick'n'dirty desaturated in ImageReady.

I do tend to throw all the raw pics at Extensis Intellihance, which makes
a big difference.

Cheers
Martin



Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:  [thelist] digital camera


My department has said they are willing to buy a digital camera for
me to use at work.  It needs to be a good value though.

What I need to do is take good pictures (mostly around campus) for
the web. I need USB.  I need to be able to take indoors shots without
having to use flash.  I want to be able to set it to take black &
white.  I want zoom.  Maybe I want other stuff but I don't know
enough to say.

Basically, I would use the camera to make photos indoors (portraits &
objects) and outdoors (buildings, people, vegetation) on campus.  I'd
then edit them for the web site.  They would not be used for print.


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

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this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From persist1 at io.com  Tue Nov 20 12:38:16 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Tue Nov 20 12:38:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] digital camera
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Erika Meyer wrote:

> What I need to do is take good pictures (mostly around campus) for
> the web. I need USB.  I need to be able to take indoors shots without
> having to use flash.  I want to be able to set it to take black &
> white.  I want zoom.  Maybe I want other stuff but I don't know
> enough to say.
>
> Basically, I would use the camera to make photos indoors (portraits &
> objects) and outdoors (buildings, people, vegetation) on campus.  I'd
> then edit them for the web site.  They would not be used for print.
>
> Suggestions for a good value?

The cameras I hear about most frequently these days are the ones in the
Nikon Coolpix series.  I've never used them - I'm quite happy with my Sony
- so the best I can do is suggest them as benchmarks.  The product I see
from them on the Web is good, but I don't know what's been done to any of
those photos before being placed on sites.  [Seems I'm the second person
to bring this up, at the least.]

If you make your purchase carefully, something you'll likely discover is
that the camera will take wonderful flashless shots in settings that would
be near-to-impossible to record with a conventional point and click
camera, flash or not.  I've got a couple of photos from Webvisions, taken
without a flash, that might serve as good points of reference, since you
were there.

Most cameras will record in greyscale and sepia-tone modes, in addition to
color (though one wonders why an experienced Photoshop user would care
*grin*).

When I went shopping last winter, I used c|net as my review source.  I
came up with lots of possibilities... and that was a year ago.  Doubtless
you are in a position to put my purchase to shame, while spending less
money in the process...

Take care as you shop to remember that simply having a USB camera will not
mitigate the expense of storage outright.

Another thing to keep in mind is that a CCD records the same number of
pixels regardless of the setting of your camera.  This can be
disconcerting when you're recording at smaller sizes, on account of the
fact that small photos will create a lag between the instant you click the
shutter and the instant the photo is recorded (e.g. resampling).  Learning
about this lag caused me an immense amount of grief.

The obvious solution is to get a camera with a lower resolution CCD, but
you can expect in that case to lose other features, such as (most
importantly) optics - since features tend to be all-or-nothing on
digicams...


-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"





From djc at members.evolt.org  Tue Nov 20 12:48:53 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Tue Nov 20 12:48:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] digital camera
References: 
Message-ID: <3BF9C460.3010502@members.evolt.org>

This seems to be a pretty popular question on thelist, and our archives 
have some good posts:

iSac weighs in:
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20001127/145722.html

good thread:
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20001120/145535.html

and a thread from just last week:
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20011112/017039.html


The search engine for thelist archives is run by google, and you can 
expect the same quality results you've come to love google for when you 
use it to search thelist archives!

The search engine box is at http://lists.evolt.org



.djc.


Erika Meyer wrote:

> My department has said they are willing to buy a digital camera for me 
> to use at work.  It needs to be a good value though.
> 
> What I need to do is take good pictures (mostly around campus) for the 
> web. I need USB.  I need to be able to take indoors shots without having 
> to use flash.  I want to be able to set it to take black & white.  I 
> want zoom.  Maybe I want other stuff but I don't know enough to say.
> 
> Basically, I would use the camera to make photos indoors (portraits & 
> objects) and outdoors (buildings, people, vegetation) on campus.  I'd 
> then edit them for the web site.  They would not be used for print.





From webguru at vsnl.net  Tue Nov 20 12:53:51 2001
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Tue Nov 20 12:53:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Drawing XML Content into URLs in an XSL Doc
In-Reply-To: <20011120184431.D99FF51F6B@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011121001936.02de95a8@203.197.12.4>

At 12:14 AM 11/21/2001, thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org opined:
>I don't know if this will help you or not, but I thought a working example
>might help you on your way. This is the XML/XSL transformation I use for my
>links list in the right hand sidebar on my site

Ed,

*Please* quote only the portion of the message you're replying to. Don't 
leave 3 to 4 messages quoted after your post. Those who are on digest have 
to scroll several pages to get to the next message when this happens. I 
posted a tip 3-4 weeks back about changing Outlook's behaviour and getting 
it to use the ">" character for quoting instead of its default 
"-----Original Message----- [blah] [blah]" format.

To save you the trouble of locating it, I'll post it again:




It *is* possible to configure Outlook to use the ">" for quoted text. 
Here's how to do it:

1) Go to Tools > Options. On the Preferences tab, click on "Email Options"

2) There's a dropdown called "When replying to a message". From that, 
select "Prefix each line of the original message". There's also an edit box 
labelled "Prefix each line with" By default, it's ">"

3) Also click on the Mail Delivery tab and make sure that the message 
format is sent to plain text.

4) Click OK.




Thanks,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net




From dsbrady at scottbrady.net  Tue Nov 20 12:55:59 2001
From: dsbrady at scottbrady.net (Scott Brady)
Date: Tue Nov 20 12:55:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] YASC (Yet Another Site Check)
Message-ID: <013901c171f5$6f19c2d0$f0b5ff18@helix>

I've recently redone what was my personal site into a more professional
content site.  Until I can work on a complete graphic redesign, I've gone
with the basic look and feel of the old site.

However, I've been told that one of the pages looks off on IE5 on Windows.
The person who told me this can't give me a screenshot, so I'm not sure
what's wrong.

Can someone with IE5.0 on Windows check out:
http://www.scottbrady.net/weare/index.cfm?fa=dsp_contact

And let me know if there are any quirks.  Feel free to contact me off-list
and include a screenshot if you're feeling industrious.

Thanks!

Scott

----------------------------------------------
Scott Brady
http://www.scottbrady.net/





From webguru at vsnl.net  Tue Nov 20 13:00:39 2001
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Tue Nov 20 13:00:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] digital camera
In-Reply-To: <20011120184431.D99FF51F6B@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011121003139.02e43df8@203.197.12.4>

At 12:14 AM 11/21/2001, thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org opined:
>I do tend to throw all the raw pics at Extensis Intellihance, which makes
>a big difference.

For the amateur digital photographers among you (I'm not even a 
photographer, let alone an amateur one), a nice freeware tool called 
DCEnhance will bring new life to your images. You can download it here:

http://www.mediachance.com/digicam/enhancer.htm

Go on, download it (only 500+ K) and test it out.

Regards,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net




From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Tue Nov 20 13:10:37 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Tue Nov 20 13:10:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript - insert a movable date
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD322@arnold.bedrock.com>

+| Hi,
+| 
+| I am new to javascript and will greatly appreciate
+| help with my task. 
+| I need to insert a movable date into a page like so:

Hi irina,

I'm new to JS too, and never played around with the date functions.

I came up with this... let me know if it works out.

RightNow = new Date();

document.write("Today's date is " +
(RightNow.getMonth()+1)+"-" + RightNow.getDate() + "-"
+ RightNow.getFullYear() + ". You entered this Web Page at exactly: " +
RightNow.getHours() + ":" +
RightNow.getMinutes() + " and " +
RightNow.getSeconds() + " seconds");

document.write("

");

RightNow.setDate(RightNow.getDate()+5);

document.write("5 days from now will be: " + (RightNow.getMonth()+1) + "-" +
RightNow.getDate());

document.write("

");





From navin_dhanuka at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 20 13:27:16 2001
From: navin_dhanuka at yahoo.com (Navin Dhanuka)
Date: Tue Nov 20 13:27:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT]{OT}[OT} -- Pakistan's uncertain future [link]
References: <20011120062350.2FCC78BC@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <004f01c171f9$2b982070$1c00005a@redhat>

http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/nov/20brahma.htm


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From hblair at hotfootmail.com  Tue Nov 20 13:30:52 2001
From: hblair at hotfootmail.com (Hugh Blair)
Date: Tue Nov 20 13:30:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] YASC (Yet Another Site Check)
In-Reply-To: <013901c171f5$6f19c2d0$f0b5ff18@helix>
Message-ID: 

Scott,

It look fine to me - Win2k/IE5.0 & 5.5.  Drop me a note if you
want a screenshot.

-Hugh
hblair at hotfootmail.com
____________________________
http://www.wholesalenics.net

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott Brady
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:59 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] YASC (Yet Another Site Check)
>
>
> I've recently redone what was my personal site into a more professional
> content site.  Until I can work on a complete graphic redesign, I've gone
> with the basic look and feel of the old site.
>
> However, I've been told that one of the pages looks off on IE5 on Windows.
> The person who told me this can't give me a screenshot, so I'm not sure
> what's wrong.
>
> Can someone with IE5.0 on Windows check out:
> http://www.scottbrady.net/weare/index.cfm?fa=dsp_contact
>
> And let me know if there are any quirks.  Feel free to contact me off-list
> and include a screenshot if you're feeling industrious.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Scott
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Scott Brady
> http://www.scottbrady.net/
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>




From bill at webmarketingworx.com  Tue Nov 20 13:32:42 2001
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Tue Nov 20 13:32:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] digital camera
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

I probably don't have the popular opinion, but I do know cameras pretty
well, and what makes a good value. Nikon certainly has a quality line, and
I've only ever seen them make a bad model a few times. However, my choice
for consistently good *value* is Olympus. Good glass, good imaging, good
price. Plus, their more recent models do have USB. And certainly if your
budget does not permit the purchase of a Nikon, It's hard to beat the
quality of a middle-to-top-end Oly (avoid their bottom end products, as is
the case with most camera manufacturers' lines).

BH


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Erika Meyer
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 1:20 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] digital camera


My department has said they are willing to buy a digital camera for
me to use at work.  It needs to be a good value though.

What I need to do is take good pictures (mostly around campus) for
the web. I need USB.  I need to be able to take indoors shots without
having to use flash.  I want to be able to set it to take black &
white.  I want zoom.  Maybe I want other stuff but I don't know
enough to say.

Basically, I would use the camera to make photos indoors (portraits &
objects) and outdoors (buildings, people, vegetation) on campus.  I'd
then edit them for the web site.  They would not be used for print.

Suggestions for a good value?

Thanks,

Erika
--

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Tue Nov 20 13:45:16 2001
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Tue Nov 20 13:45:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Form Without Line Breaks
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20011120161927.00a11ec0@mail.gmx.net>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011118231804.00a542c0@mail.gmx.net>
 <5.0.2.1.2.20011120161927.00a11ec0@mail.gmx.net>
Message-ID: 

>There is something I don't understand - a line break which works for
>Eudora, and not for Outlook, how is this possible?
>
>Any help appreciated
>
>Mike

I don't know, but how about:

$body = wordwrap($body, 60);

Also, are you setting MIME types / Content-Type header fields 
correctly? I had a similar problem the other day (no line breaks) 
while testing a modification of an email script...

$headers = "From: \n"
  . "X-Sender:  \n"
  . "X-Mailer: PHP\n"
  . "X-Priority: 1\n"
  . "MIME-Version: 1.0\n"
  . "Content-Type: text/plain; charset='iso-8859-1'\n"
  . "Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n"
  . "Return-Path: \n"
  . "Errors-To: \n";

Mail headers aren't my specialty, though, so your mileage may vary.

Oh, and one last suggestion: try using \r\n for line breaks in the 
body of the email, rather than just \n

HTH
Andrew

-- 
Andrew Forsberg
---
uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/
the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/



From bill at webmarketingworx.com  Tue Nov 20 14:06:50 2001
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Tue Nov 20 14:06:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Sorry, couldn't find the specific key, but I do recall it was related to
"auto login", and controlpanel settings not correctly being represented in
the registry or something like that. Might find more info on the Microsoft
KB under "auto login". Not much help I know, but all I could come up with
was a lead, sorry.

BH

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Bill Haenel
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:11 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation


There is another way - there is an entry in the registry that needs to be
eliminated. Don't remember where or what, but I'll find it momentarily.
Thought I should post before you reinstall, though. Stay tuned!

BH



Kristina
>I had this exact same problem on my W2k machine, the only way I
>found to solve it was reinstalling W2k
it really strange - cheers for the advice though, don't think we'll
reinstall - there just has to be another way.

cheers

paul


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Tue Nov 20 14:18:58 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Tue Nov 20 14:18:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD323@arnold.bedrock.com>

+| Sorry, couldn't find the specific key, but I do recall it 
+| was related to
+| "auto login", and controlpanel settings not correctly being 
+| represented in
+| the registry or something like that. Might find more info on 
+| the Microsoft
+| KB under "auto login". Not much help I know, but all I could 
+| come up with
+| was a lead, sorry.
+| 
+| BH

You mean:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows
NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\AutoAdminLogon

 



From waves at atlantic.net  Tue Nov 20 14:27:49 2001
From: waves at atlantic.net (Jonathan)
Date: Tue Nov 20 14:27:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] digital camera
References: 
Message-ID: <005401c17202$0f9c7f20$e0d261d8@net>

http://www.steves-digicams.com/


Jonathan




From evolt at brasscannon.net  Tue Nov 20 14:41:12 2001
From: evolt at brasscannon.net (Kevin Martin)
Date: Tue Nov 20 14:41:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Windows 2000 server with NT workstation
In-Reply-To: <20011120190755.F41FAC00A@relay.evolt.org>; from thelist-admin@lists.evolt.org on Tue, Nov 20, 2001 at 01:07:55PM -0600
References: <20011120190755.F41FAC00A@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20011120154415.B3938@brasscannon.net>

Paul Backhouse writes:

[Machines disappear off of Network Neighborhood but can still be 
"found" if you look for them one at a time]

>Kristina
>> I had this exact same problem on my W2k machine, the only way I
>> found to solve it was reinstalling W2k
> it really strange - cheers for the advice though, don't think we'll
> reinstall - there just has to be another way.

I've encountered that symptom twice; once back in the Windows 3.1 era, and
then again more recently.

The answer in the old days was to eliminate all protocols other than 
TCP/IP -- it turns out that Windows networking will work just fine 
(better, even!) if you do not have NetBEUI installed as a protocol.

Years went by. We recently had a power outage and shut everything down, 
and when we turned things back on, the network (seven PC's and one token 
iMac) fragmented into pairs or triplets.  None of the boxes could see the 
entire workgroup.

I discovered that if I made one Linux box the master browser for the
entire workgroup (using samba), everything stabilized and everyone started
working together again.  Takes a few minutes for the broadcast messages to
make the rounds and for everyone to find each other, by the way.

Who knows, it might simply be a matter of turning on the machines in the
right order!



From david_shadovitz at xontech.com  Tue Nov 20 14:44:48 2001
From: david_shadovitz at xontech.com (David Shadovitz)
Date: Tue Nov 20 14:44:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] IDE influences (was CF: Nested pound signs)
Message-ID: <3BFAC191.D2346AC2@xontech.com>

Ray wrote:

> It's interesting - the IDE influences your coding style. I wonder if
people see this w/ other IDEs/languages?

I write IDL code (that's Interactive Data Language, from Research
Systems, Inc.).  The IDL IDE's color coding made my realize that some of
my variable names were the same as the names of vendor-supplied
functions and procedures.  It was disconcerting to see color in an
unexpected place.  And since reusing these names could lead to nasty
results, I scanned the code and renamed offending variables.

What's still disconcerting is that IDL *itself* reuses some procedure
and function names as keywords.  For example, GET_LUN is a function but
it's also a keyword to the OPENW procedure.  So the IDE colorizes it in
both instances.

-David




From bill at webmarketingworx.com  Tue Nov 20 15:00:36 2001
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Tue Nov 20 15:00:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation
In-Reply-To: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD323@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: 

uhh...maybe - not certain about that, though, so be careful...back it up
first!

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of
Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 3:27 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation


+| Sorry, couldn't find the specific key, but I do recall it
+| was related to
+| "auto login", and controlpanel settings not correctly being
+| represented in
+| the registry or something like that. Might find more info on
+| the Microsoft
+| KB under "auto login". Not much help I know, but all I could
+| come up with
+| was a lead, sorry.
+|
+| BH

You mean:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows
NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\AutoAdminLogon



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From evolt at spinhead.com  Tue Nov 20 15:08:04 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Tue Nov 20 15:08:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] slow mouseovers
Message-ID: <000501c17207$c65548a0$080a000a@HEISENBERG>

Can anyone tell why my mouseovers are so doggy? Seems like they're not
preloading, but I can't see what's wrong.

http://www.magisnetworks.com/new2002/index.html

Thanks so much.

spinhead






From jeff at members.evolt.org  Tue Nov 20 15:15:40 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Tue Nov 20 15:15:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] slow mouseovers
In-Reply-To: <000501c17207$c65548a0$080a000a@HEISENBERG>
Message-ID: 

joel,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: spinhead
>
> Can anyone tell why my mouseovers are so doggy? Seems
> like they're not preloading, but I can't see what's
> wrong.
>
> http://www.magisnetworks.com/new2002/index.html
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

running ie5 or ie5.5?  have it set to check for new content every visit?  if
so, images don't get preloaded.  that aside, there are a number of little
details askew with your rollovers.  i'd strongly recommend you go some sort
of approach that uses a function and support detection.  otherwise you're
going to be seriously (and needlessly) alienating any of your audience that
may not be using browsers that support the image object.

i'd strongly recommend at least taking a look at this:
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/code/preload_n_rollover/index.cfm

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Tue Nov 20 15:17:56 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Tue Nov 20 15:17:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD324@arnold.bedrock.com>

OK,

I went back to read the actual problem, instead of responding to
responses... have you noticed how that makes threads fray? ;)

 
+| have all 5 NT
+| workstations that occassionally lose the network 
+| neighborhood - you can use
+| Find a computer to see the pc you want to connect to - but 
+| this isn't great.

It does sound like SMB browsing issues -- just the thing Glenn mentioned
that is taken care of by your WINS server.

It could be that the WINS server's database needs to be rebuilt. In the WINS
Manager, there is a button to do this.

It could be that your NT server lost in a Master Browser election, but I
doubt that unless someone has been playing with the settings on MS
networking in the network control panel on their workstations. Since you
have only 5 machines, you might want to check the properties of the
Microsoft Networking Client on the 98 machines. One of them is something
like "Set this machine to Master Browser" with one choice being "never".

If all else fails, I'd point your net admin to look into playing with the
lmhosts file in \\winnt\system32\drivers\etc\ (on the NT systems
-- c:\windows\lmhosts on the 98 machines). This file can be used as a WINS
"database" in case there is no WINS server. Using it you can emulate the
WINS functionality... namely browsing. The LMHOSTS.Sam (sample lmhosts) file
in that directory is the best starting point!





From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Nov 20 15:51:49 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Nov 20 15:51:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] YASC (Yet Another Site Check)
Message-ID: <01c1720d$a7bff100$e74f149a@rudy>

>http://www.scottbrady.net/weare/index.cfm?fa=dsp_contact

win95 ie5  looks fine

the bullet images in the little menu on the left don't really work, and the
text over there is too small, and you could probably ditch that little
table and use a UL instead -- you could even use an image for the bullet

if you're gonna use the accents, it's Résumé not
Resumé

i'm not sure i like how you broke everything up into so many small pages,
but at least the navigation is pretty clear

not nuts about rejecting two cookies on each and every page, though

toss all your javascripts into external files, this will help with search
engine positioning (as your real content will be closer to the top)

also, try validating your pages at http://validator.w3.org


rudy




From evolt at scottbrady.net  Tue Nov 20 17:13:07 2001
From: evolt at scottbrady.net (Scott Brady)
Date: Tue Nov 20 17:13:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] YASC (Yet Another Site Check)
References: <01c1720d$a7bff100$e74f149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <020301c1720f$c08804a0$f0b5ff18@helix>

Rudy wrote:

> the bullet images in the little menu on the left don't really work, and
the
> text over there is too small, and you could probably ditch that little
> table and use a UL instead -- you could even use an image for the bullet

Yeah, I'm gonna work on the font text.  Time to go back and research em vs.
px vs. pt again  (oy vey) . . . .

> i'm not sure i like how you broke everything up into so many small pages,
> but at least the navigation is pretty clear

I wasn't crazy about having "long" pages.  So, I went with smaller chunks
hopefully divided into clear sections.

> not nuts about rejecting two cookies on each and every page, though

What cookies??  I'm not using any session variables (application variables,
yes, session . . . no) so I'm not sure why you'd be getting cookie requests.

Thanks!

Scott

----------------------------------------------
Scott Brady
http://www.scottbrady.net/





From evolt at spinhead.com  Tue Nov 20 17:14:17 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Tue Nov 20 17:14:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] slow mouseovers
References: 
Message-ID: <000701c1720f$a54df4b0$080a000a@HEISENBERG>

Bingo! It's IE6, but that was it.

Excellent tip. I'd love to check out the link. But it ain't linking.

joel


----- Original Message -----
From: ".jeff" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: [thelist] slow mouseovers


> joel,
>
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > From: spinhead
> >
> > Can anyone tell why my mouseovers are so doggy? Seems
> > like they're not preloading, but I can't see what's
> > wrong.
> >
> > http://www.magisnetworks.com/new2002/index.html
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> running ie5 or ie5.5?  have it set to check for new content every visit?
if
> so, images don't get preloaded.  that aside, there are a number of little
> details askew with your rollovers.  i'd strongly recommend you go some
sort
> of approach that uses a function and support detection.  otherwise you're
> going to be seriously (and needlessly) alienating any of your audience
that
> may not be using browsers that support the image object.
>
> i'd strongly recommend at least taking a look at this:
> http://members.evolt.org/jeff/code/preload_n_rollover/index.cfm
>
> good luck,
>
> .jeff
>
> http://evolt.org/
> jeff at members.evolt.org
> http://members.evolt.org/jeff/
>
>




From nopun at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov 20 17:18:12 2001
From: nopun at bellsouth.net (Tyme)
Date: Tue Nov 20 17:18:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions on thelist
References: <20011114063051.D649F51F95@relay.evolt.org> <003501c171b9$da7d0780$e6c92cc3@athlon800> <3BF9985D.5050501@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <00a801c17210$8b9ab660$7399fea9@tyme>

----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel J. Cody 
To: 
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions on thelist


> i couldn't agree with this more. although long posts *can be* beneficial
> and helpfull, more often than not, they address things outside the
> original question in such amounts that the question gets lost in the
> noise. if the long post is long because its going in depth about the
> problem, its more likely too be read. if a long post is long because it
> skips around and addresses points other than the question, its less
> likely to be read.


TYME} I use subheadings to break up detailed posts/questions.  Eg.:
STRUCTURE: **applicable details about site structure ***
PROBLEM: ***
QUESTION: ***
CODE: ***

TYME} Mind you, few of my posts are ever answered on lists.  (Don't get me
started on the damned 15seconds ASP list.)  I like to think that it is
because they are difficult to answer.  However, they usually are soliciting
people's ideas or experience as to approach.  So, no excuse.  In other
words, I have been as frustrated, but I think my above-mentioned post
structure is good.





From ghunt at hds.ca  Tue Nov 20 17:37:27 2001
From: ghunt at hds.ca (Glenn Hunt)
Date: Tue Nov 20 17:37:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Windows 2000 server with NT workstation
In-Reply-To: <20011120154415.B3938@brasscannon.net>
Message-ID: <000401c17213$8f6831c0$0300a8c0@glenn>

>I discovered that if I made one Linux box the master browser for the
>entire workgroup (using samba), everything stabilized and everyone
started
>working together again.  Takes a few minutes for the broadcast messages
to
>make the rounds and for everyone to find each other, by the way.

>Who knows, it might simply be a matter of turning on the machines in
the
>right order!

FWIW, samba can be a WINS server as well (that's how I run it personally
- works great). When I join my home workgroup to the office workgroup
(which I conveniently named the same) via VPN, I get BOTH sets of
machines in my browser list!

Glenn Hunt
ghunt at hds.ca




From ghunt at hds.ca  Tue Nov 20 17:40:13 2001
From: ghunt at hds.ca (Glenn Hunt)
Date: Tue Nov 20 17:40:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation
In-Reply-To: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD324@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <000501c17213$f2d56160$0300a8c0@glenn>

The biggest problem with the LMHOSTS file is maintenance. Because this
file has to reside on each machine, and updates have to made manually,
it is time consuming. Better to have another machine be a "backup" WINS
server. Since DHCP is in use, management is already centrally located,
so it's easy to just add the WINS server into the DHCP Scope options. If
the WINS server is down, then browsing the network is probably the least
of your worries!

Glenn Hunt
ghunt at hds.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of
Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 4:24 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation


OK,

I went back to read the actual problem, instead of responding to
responses... have you noticed how that makes threads fray? ;)

 
+| have all 5 NT
+| workstations that occassionally lose the network
+| neighborhood - you can use
+| Find a computer to see the pc you want to connect to - but 
+| this isn't great.

It does sound like SMB browsing issues -- just the thing Glenn mentioned
that is taken care of by your WINS server.

It could be that the WINS server's database needs to be rebuilt. In the
WINS Manager, there is a button to do this.

It could be that your NT server lost in a Master Browser election, but I
doubt that unless someone has been playing with the settings on MS
networking in the network control panel on their workstations. Since you
have only 5 machines, you might want to check the properties of the
Microsoft Networking Client on the 98 machines. One of them is something
like "Set this machine to Master Browser" with one choice being "never".

If all else fails, I'd point your net admin to look into playing with
the lmhosts file in \\winnt\system32\drivers\etc\ (on the NT
systems
-- c:\windows\lmhosts on the 98 machines). This file can be used as a
WINS "database" in case there is no WINS server. Using it you can
emulate the WINS functionality... namely browsing. The LMHOSTS.Sam
(sample lmhosts) file in that directory is the best starting point!



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu  Tue Nov 20 17:41:44 2001
From: v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu (Minh Lee Goon)
Date: Tue Nov 20 17:41:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] slow mouseovers
References: <000501c17207$c65548a0$080a000a@HEISENBERG>
Message-ID: <3BFADB23.C0C0BF2F@sdsumus.sdstate.edu>

Webmonkey (dodging soft vegetables!) has a preloading script that might
help. 


http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/reference/javascript_code_library/wm_pl_img/?tw=reference&category=user_interface


This script was written to be used in conjunction with their rollover
script.


http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/reference/javascript_code_library/wm_img_swp/?tw=reference&category=user_interface


Minh Lee Goon
-------------
Web Administrator
Information Technology Services
South Dakota State University
Brookings, South Dakota


spinhead wrote:
> 
> Can anyone tell why my mouseovers are so doggy? Seems like they're not
> preloading, but I can't see what's wrong.
> 
> http://www.magisnetworks.com/new2002/index.html
> 
> Thanks so much.



From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Tue Nov 20 17:47:49 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Tue Nov 20 17:47:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD327@arnold.bedrock.com>

+| The biggest problem with the LMHOSTS file is maintenance. 

Yep, agreed.

I big pain, even with the three machines I have at home. 8)

You can use the import command in the lmhosts file to gain some level of
central administration, but, my recommendation was using this for
testing/holdover purposes, not a permanent fix. Thanks for pointing this
out, though, since I know how laziness can lead to decisions... Q: "Why is
all this code so redundant?" A: "I made the change a long time ago and never
came back to do it 'right'." You know how it goes? I'm sure you do. ;)





From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Tue Nov 20 18:23:00 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Tue Nov 20 18:23:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions on thelist
References: <20011114063051.D649F51F95@relay.evolt.org> <003501c171b9$da7d0780$e6c92cc3@athlon800> <3BF9985D.5050501@members.evolt.org> <00a801c17210$8b9ab660$7399fea9@tyme>
Message-ID: <027401c17219$06516130$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

hi,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyme" 

> TYME} I use subheadings to break up detailed posts/questions.  Eg.:
> STRUCTURE: **applicable details about site structure ***
> PROBLEM: ***
> QUESTION: ***
> CODE: ***
>
> TYME} Mind you, few of my posts are ever answered on lists.  (Don't get me
> started on the damned 15seconds ASP list.)  I like to think that it is
> because they are difficult to answer.  However, they usually are
soliciting
> people's ideas or experience as to approach.  So, no excuse.  In other
> words, I have been as frustrated, but I think my above-mentioned post
> structure is good.

I'll answer this one :o)
Although not really an answer, more a comment.
I don't know if it's just me being thin-skinned, but I'm collecting a whole
range of pet annoyances recently.
One of them is your habit of staring your text blocks with :
TYME}
It's like rubbing a cat backwards! After declaring the name, you should
start with an opening bracket:
TYME{
It makes me cringe every time I see it :o)

Another one is peoples annoying habit of writing +1 all the time, instead of
a constructive comment, or using the word "like" in the wrong way, when they
say, "I was like, wow". Oh yes, the word SO in capitals is horrible too, "I
was like, this is SO not the right thing to do" , brr, gives me the shivers!
And of course people who recycle the same joke in their signature time after
time, makes you wonder how often you can repeat a joke before it becomes
boring. I think about three times.
I think I probably just need to take a break, my nerves getting the better
of me!

I also think I owe a really large tip for all that ranting:


After deploying a website, there are bound to be some errors left in it here
or there.
Either you can cross you fingers, and wait for the customer to call with a
list of complaints, or you can make sure you know about the errors before
your customer does, like this:

Put together a simple server-side script on your own site, that will take
the value you pass in the URL, and log it to a flat-file (or database)
so that you can do this:
http://www.mysite.com/errorlogger.php?message=my_error_message
and it will log my_error_message to a file.

Then in your website-page in script tags, do this:

///Our custom error handler:
var version=1.0 //update this with each site update
var errorSender=new Image()

function myErrorHandler(errorMessage,url,line) {
     status='An Error Occured ('+errorMessage+' '+line+')'

errorSender.src='http://www.mysite/errorlogger.php?message='+escape('|Setup|
'+navigator.appName+'\n'+navigator.appVersion+'\n|Test
Version|'+version+'\n|Error Message|'+errorMessage+'|Line|'+line+'\n')
//this part all on one line
 return true
}
onerror = myErrorHandler

So, if any javascript errors occur, the site-user won't see the popup, the
error-message only shows on the status-bar, and it's logged to the script on
your own site, where you can see what browser/OS was used, and what the
error was.

I would advise telling your customers about this, because theoretically you
could of course log other things, like what users type into forms, but
that's likely to get you into court.



Richard.




From hblair at hotfootmail.com  Tue Nov 20 18:49:42 2001
From: hblair at hotfootmail.com (Hugh Blair)
Date: Tue Nov 20 18:49:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation
In-Reply-To: <000501c17213$f2d56160$0300a8c0@glenn>
Message-ID: 

I had this same problem last week witha Win2k Server and 8
workstations using a mix of Win98/Win2k Pro.  I uninstalled
TCP/IP and NetBUI - then reinstalled them - and the problem
went away.  At least for the next 5 days I was there.

I did this on the server & the workstations.  It only takes
minutes each.  

HTH

-Hugh

> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Glenn Hunt
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation
> 
> 
> The biggest problem with the LMHOSTS file is maintenance. Because this
> file has to reside on each machine, and updates have to made manually,
> it is time consuming. Better to have another machine be a "backup" WINS
> server. Since DHCP is in use, management is already centrally located,
> so it's easy to just add the WINS server into the DHCP Scope options. If
> the WINS server is down, then browsing the network is probably the least
> of your worries!
> 
> Glenn Hunt
> ghunt at hds.ca
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of
> Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation
> 
> 
> OK,
> 
> I went back to read the actual problem, instead of responding to
> responses... have you noticed how that makes threads fray? ;)
> 
>  
> +| have all 5 NT
> +| workstations that occassionally lose the network
> +| neighborhood - you can use
> +| Find a computer to see the pc you want to connect to - but 
> +| this isn't great.
> 
> It does sound like SMB browsing issues -- just the thing Glenn mentioned
> that is taken care of by your WINS server.
> 
> It could be that the WINS server's database needs to be rebuilt. In the
> WINS Manager, there is a button to do this.
> 
> It could be that your NT server lost in a Master Browser election, but I
> doubt that unless someone has been playing with the settings on MS
> networking in the network control panel on their workstations. Since you
> have only 5 machines, you might want to check the properties of the
> Microsoft Networking Client on the 98 machines. One of them is something
> like "Set this machine to Master Browser" with one choice being "never".
> 
> If all else fails, I'd point your net admin to look into playing with
> the lmhosts file in \\winnt\system32\drivers\etc\ (on the NT
> systems
> -- c:\windows\lmhosts on the 98 machines). This file can be used as a
> WINS "database" in case there is no WINS server. Using it you can
> emulate the WINS functionality... namely browsing. The LMHOSTS.Sam
> (sample lmhosts) file in that directory is the best starting point!
> 
>  alt="8}"/>
> 



From evolt at spinhead.com  Tue Nov 20 19:23:38 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Tue Nov 20 19:23:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] site check: www.magisnetworks.com/new2002
References: <4.2.0.58.20011119224615.00a421e0@mail.delime.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c17221$d5e02b90$080a000a@HEISENBERG>

The official answer:

Air5 is a technology brand, not a product line.

To make a comparison in the wireless industry, 802.11b is a technology,
LinkSys' Wireless Access Point is a product. Excellent question. Thanks!

spinhead


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Seyon" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] site check: www.magisnetworks.com/new2002


> I'm curious about the hierarchical weight given to the 'Air5', as implied
> by it being listed in the main top navigation alongside 'Product'. Isn't
> the 'Air5' a product, or the product? If I'm following the link to Air5,
to
> view information about the Air5 product, what info should I expect to see
> when I follow the 'Product' link?
>
> Of course I could be terribly off base here and just not understand what
> I'm seeing. If I am, apologies.
>
> regards.
> -marc
>
> At 11/19/2001 06:32 PM, you wrote:
> >Comments on anything else are solicited - colors, design code.
> >
> >http://www.magisnetworks.com/new2002
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From krr at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 20 20:26:03 2001
From: krr at ix.netcom.com (Kevin Raleigh)
Date: Tue Nov 20 20:26:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] images and layout = browser size
References: <20011120190757.AD81BC010@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <006a01c1722a$601a8c30$59d6fea9@krr>

Is there any difference in size of an image at 8 x 6
1024 x 768 etc...

My image measures 200 x 200. will it still measure 
200 x 200 in all browsers regardless of the users 
resolution?

Kevin




From judah at wiredotter.com  Tue Nov 20 20:38:05 2001
From: judah at wiredotter.com (judah at wiredotter.com)
Date: Tue Nov 20 20:38:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] images and layout = browser size
In-Reply-To: <006a01c1722a$601a8c30$59d6fea9@krr>
References: <20011120190757.AD81BC010@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011120173003.039b5c20@mail.site-o-matic.com>

At 05:18 PM 11/20/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>Is there any difference in size of an image at 8 x 6
>1024 x 768 etc...
>
>My image measures 200 x 200. will it still measure
>200 x 200 in all browsers regardless of the users
>resolution?

Yes, a 200 x 200 pixel image will be 200 x 200 pixels regardless of screen 
resolution and screen size.  However, a 200 x 200 image will look bigger at 
600 x 800 resolution than it will at 1024 x 768 because it will take up a 
larger percentage of the screen.

200 pixels is 33% of the screen width at 600 x 800.  At 1024 x 800, 200 
pixels is only 20% of the screen, so it seems a lot smaller.

HTH,

Judah





From wade at runstrong.com  Tue Nov 20 20:44:22 2001
From: wade at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong)
Date: Tue Nov 20 20:44:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] images and layout = browser size
In-Reply-To: <006a01c1722a$601a8c30$59d6fea9@krr>
Message-ID: 

on 11/20/01 5:18 PM, Kevin Raleigh at krr at ix.netcom.com wrote:
> My image measures 200 x 200. will it still measure
> 200 x 200 in all browsers regardless of the users
> resolution?
> 
> Kevin
> 
Well that depends on what you mean by "measure."

Your image is 200 pixels (px) by 200px.
At a screen resolution of 800px x 600px, your image will be 200px x 200 px.
On a 17" monitor, that image will be about 3.2" x 3.2".

At a screen resolution of 1024px x 768px, your image will be 200px x 200px.
On a 17" monitor, that image will now be about 2.5" x 2.5". So it will be
smaller (in inches), but the same size (in pixels).

Wade





From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Tue Nov 20 20:58:35 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Tue Nov 20 20:58:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions on thelist
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD328@arnold.bedrock.com>

+| I also think I owe a really large tip for all that ranting:

Hi Richard!

That was a great tip. I knew about the technique for the nefarious other
purposes it is used, but never something so useful and beneficial -- thanks!

This is why I love this list. I am almost continually outside of my little
box I call my world whenever I peek at it. This applies to all aspects of
discourse -- style, tone and timbre of posts, cultural influences on
perspective and thinking process, 24 hr posts (since, I think, the sun never
sets on Evolt), style, application and finesse in technique, strengths where
I am weak, questions where I am strong, and on and on. 

So, I just want to say thanks to everyone. Even those who ignore my posts,
chastise my style (to some, I seem completely incapable of speaking in
normal conversational English 8), and irk me, because you all help me grow
and love an imperfect humanity a little more.

Ahh... I've been saving this one which I am particularly fond of. My first
(and I believe original) contribution to the realm of accessibility.


Have a long list of items from a query on a page and each one can be the
launching point for activity? Does a select box just not give enough
information to allow a meaningful choice? I use a button for each to allow
choice, but this presents both accessibility and clumsiness issues. It takes
people time to scroll and click. Some just want to *wham* and go where they
choose.

Try this technique... this is in ColdFusion, but you can use it in ASP, PHP,
etc.



With tweaking the number 65 in the Chr function, you can make more than 26
buttons available, but this introduces problems when keyboards don't support
a particular character. More than 26 choices for launching, anyway, and it's
time to rethink the information architecture for better navigability. (Every
wonder why there are between 25 and 30 letters in most alphabets in the
world? Even Eastern Asiatic languages are composed to some degree of a
limited number of repeating glyphs.)

The buttons appear with a letter on the face, indicating which access key
will immediately activate that button from the keyboard. This suffices the
usability principles of ease-of-use (buttons are common UI artifacts),
accommodation for experts (keyboard access allows speed and efficiency), and
accessibility for a variety of users.






From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Tue Nov 20 23:55:02 2001
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Tue Nov 20 23:55:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 20-NOV-01
Message-ID: <200111210555.fAL5t1dA012143@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 20-NOV-01

Hi evolters!

We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our
members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone
else:

Visual Design: CSS Image Border Rollovers (Author: banrett)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/22/17586/index.html

A low-cal bandwidth-friendly method for providing an alternative
rollover state of an image used as a hyperlink, with just a few lines
of CSS. Image borders will change immediately to an alternative
colour on rollover.




Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a
comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.

Happy reading!

evolt.org




From scott at milcap.com  Wed Nov 21 03:50:07 2001
From: scott at milcap.com (Scott Adamson)
Date: Wed Nov 21 03:50:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] digital camera
References: 
Message-ID: <004501c17268$a183cfe0$4501000a@milcap.com>

If your on a tight budget the HP Photosmart 31x cameras  offer good vaue for
money, and the quality is good too, 2.1 megapixel for the 315, if your
taking pictures for the web anything else is just over kill + they start
from $199

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erika Meyer" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 7:19 PM
Subject: [thelist] digital camera


> My department has said they are willing to buy a digital camera for
> me to use at work.  It needs to be a good value though.
>
> What I need to do is take good pictures (mostly around campus) for
> the web. I need USB.  I need to be able to take indoors shots without
> having to use flash.  I want to be able to set it to take black &
> white.  I want zoom.  Maybe I want other stuff but I don't know
> enough to say.
>
> Basically, I would use the camera to make photos indoors (portraits &
> objects) and outdoors (buildings, people, vegetation) on campus.  I'd
> then edit them for the web site.  They would not be used for print.
>
> Suggestions for a good value?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Erika
> --
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From mqy4fxax36001 at sneakemail.com  Wed Nov 21 03:53:23 2001
From: mqy4fxax36001 at sneakemail.com (Joergen Ramskov)
Date: Wed Nov 21 03:53:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: digital camera (Erika Meyer)
Message-ID: <135228847.1006332426723.JavaMail.root@boots>

> Suggestions for a good value?

I don't know much about cameras generally and haven't bought a digital
camera myself yet simply because I think they are too expensive yet. I find
most new digital stuff interesting and the best place I've found on the net
regarding digital cameras is http://www.dpreview.com/ - they test lots of
cameras and the tests are very thorough. Furthermore, there are extensive
information about digital cameras in general too - basically there are more
information about digital cameras than you ever wanted to know :)

--
Joergen Ramskov - Folding for the Cause!
http://www.teameggroll.com




From lists at bo.gs  Wed Nov 21 06:06:00 2001
From: lists at bo.gs (Eric Bogs)
Date: Wed Nov 21 06:06:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] digital camera
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Follow the masses -- check out C|Net or Amazon's reviews.  I did about 9
months ago, scooped up the Canon Elph S100 for $400 US at the time (they
now have S110, S200, and other models) and have loved it ever since.
Excellent quality, interface and bundled software -- only gripe is
battery life of the camera.

http://bo.gs/photos

-Eric

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erika Meyer" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 7:19 PM
Subject: [thelist] digital camera


> My department has said they are willing to buy a digital camera for me

> to use at work.  It needs to be a good value though.
>
> What I need to do is take good pictures (mostly around campus) for the

> web. I need USB.  I need to be able to take indoors shots without 
> having to use flash.  I want to be able to set it to take black & 
> white.  I want zoom.  Maybe I want other stuff but I don't know enough

> to say.
>
> Basically, I would use the camera to make photos indoors (portraits &
> objects) and outdoors (buildings, people, vegetation) on campus.  I'd 
> then edit them for the web site.  They would not be used for print.
>
> Suggestions for a good value?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Erika




From aruba at cybersync.com  Wed Nov 21 06:50:50 2001
From: aruba at cybersync.com (LMP)
Date: Wed Nov 21 06:50:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Monitor
Message-ID: <3BFB93BB.271B45E3@cybersync.com>

Evolters:

Time for a new monitor. Just wondered what the experts would recommend,
keeping in mind I haven't made my first million yet. Web graphics are
key, colour and clarity.

TIA,
Lynn




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Wed Nov 21 06:59:38 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Wed Nov 21 06:59:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Monitor
Message-ID: 

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Hi Lynn

Probably more important than colour accuracy is avoidance of eye
strain and ease of seeing your stuff.

So I would suggest either:
19" (21" if you can afford it) with a high refresh rate
15" flat panel (which is the equivalent of a 17" CRT)

2 monitor setups are pretty keen too - one with browser and one with
whatever tool you're using to develop.

Cheers
Martin




Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   "thelist at lists.evolt.org" 
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] Monitor


Time for a new monitor. Just wondered what the experts would recommend,
keeping in mind I haven't made my first million yet. Web graphics are
key, colour and clarity.



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
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taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Wed Nov 21 07:35:14 2001
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Wed Nov 21 07:35:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Monitor
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

> 2 monitor setups are pretty keen too - one with browser and one with
> whatever tool you're using to develop.

Plus 1 from me.

I've got an LG 15" TFT to work on and a Sony Trinitron alongside,
running off a Matrox Dual Head card (PC) Coding on the TFT and
previewing on the Sony make for quick and easy work.

HTH




From kernel at esatclear.ie  Wed Nov 21 07:41:23 2001
From: kernel at esatclear.ie (Ross Lynch)
Date: Wed Nov 21 07:41:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions on thelist
In-Reply-To: <00a801c17210$8b9ab660$7399fea9@tyme>
Message-ID: 

> However, they usually are soliciting
> people's ideas or experience as to
> approach.  So, no excuse.  In other
> words, I have been as frustrated, but I
> think my above-mentioned post
> structure is good.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. The
fact is that busy people don't really have time to
collect their thoughts on issues and sit for 15
minutes to write an email on their opinions. That, I
assume, is why it's easier to solicit answers on
clearly technical issues, maybe such as "what
function do I need to use to do X?"...

I think if you're going to look for peoples opinions
and thoughts on issues you have to make things
interesting. People like to disagree. So, offer your
own opinions and thoughts (nomatter how small they
may be) on the issue and people may be more inclined
to take the points you've made further or indeed
disagree entirely with them.

Additionally, for me personally, clear formatting is
essential to even reading the email. Things that bug
me on this front include people not wrapping their
text, HTML email, bad quoting style (including
irrelevant information), frequent bad grammar and
spelling, etc.

Regards,
 -Ross

____________________________________________________
ross lynch  | me at rosslynch.com  | +353 (0)87 9683368
____________________________________________________
Nicht auf dem Teppich, Mann!





From fayec at canada.com  Wed Nov 21 08:05:03 2001
From: fayec at canada.com (Faye Tarzwell(FayeC))
Date: Wed Nov 21 08:05:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Illustrator 10
Message-ID: <3BFBA50C.DEF4248C@canada.com>

Hi,

I was wondering if someone has a scoop of what's new with Ill 10...
Has someone tried it already? Pros, cons?

Thanks,

FayeC



From amccoy at goodmanct.com  Wed Nov 21 08:19:24 2001
From: amccoy at goodmanct.com (McCoy, Alan)
Date: Wed Nov 21 08:19:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] Possible PHP workaround?
Message-ID: <6EA277CAA880A349870428C3AE42B3360A8F34@admin.admin.goodmanct.com>

Jon,

I'll try to post it early next week. Too much stuff to finish up before
Turkey Day.

Alan


> Glad you found a better way. Mind sharing? :)
> 
> I'd love to know.
> 
> 
> --- "McCoy, Alan"  wrote:
> > A friend actually figured out the solution...a little Perl 
> magic here
> > and there in the form of a script that parses all files with the
> > specified filename mask (in this case, "*.php") and inserts the line
> > at
> > the top.
> > 
> > Worked like a charm. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try that PHP
> > script anyway, Jon. :-)
> > 
> > Alan



From mbiscay at skyminds.net  Wed Nov 21 08:28:15 2001
From: mbiscay at skyminds.net (Matt Biscay)
Date: Wed Nov 21 08:28:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Cross-Browser
References: <20011120125022.6213EBFBA@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000301c1728e$ec9e3bc0$37050c50@wanadoo.fr>

Hi Banrett

Thank you very much !
It really helps me out...


-----
Matt Biscay
http://www.skyminds.net/


| Message: 23
| Reply-To: 
| From: "Carbon Chip" 
| To: 
| Subject: RE: [thelist] Cross-Browser script
| Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 03:39:22 -0000
| charset="iso-8859-1"
| Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
|
| matt
|
| i have one that i pulled together for CSS selection based on browser type.
| only identifies IE/NS underWin/Mac at mo, but code is rudimentary enough
to
| be extensible to all OS's/platforms/browsers.
|
| it can pull some neat tricks, ie pull some great effects in IE4++, and
then
| leave out any conflicting stuff that plagues NS and Opera.
|
| sample as:
|
| 
|
| used at: www.approvedinternet.com
|
| hope this is of some help.
|
| banrett
| banrett at carbonchip.com




From TeckLLow at rainbowhouseinc.com  Wed Nov 21 08:43:16 2001
From: TeckLLow at rainbowhouseinc.com (Teck Low)
Date: Wed Nov 21 08:43:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation
Message-ID: <000b01c17291$8672cf20$331d340a@tll>

Paul:

Can the W2K server see the workstations in the network neighborhood? Most
probably computer browser service is on in the workstation unless turned
off. If this the W2K server see the workstation, it is the browsing in the
server not updating. Check the event log for any warnings, errors.

Try this: Shut down the computer browser service in the W2K server & start
the computer browser service in the W2K server. If this doesn't work then do
a cold boot. If failed, I'm lost.

Teck Low
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On
Behalf Of Paul Backhouse
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:37 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation

Hello people,



We have a compaq prolient network server that has Windows 2000 Server
installed.

We have 5 NT workstations used by our developers - everything has been fine
until about 2 weeks ago.

Suddenly when clicking on NetWork Neigborhood nothing showed up - i though i
might have a bug or something that has developed over time and corrupted a
file somewhere - but no - this was not that case - now we have all 5 NT
workstations that occassionally lose the network neighborhood - you can use
Find a computer to see the pc you want to connect to - but this isn't great.

This has also started to happen on a couple of the Windows 98 machines we
have aswell.

I was wondering if anyone out there has come across this problem before with
Windows 2000 Server supporting NT Workstations or has any clue why this has
started to happen?

All the NT Workstations have the latest Service pack and have been working
fine.

Any help would be greatly appreciated - I am at a loss and our Network admin
guy is at a loss aswell - and theres no mention of this problem anywhere on
the micorsoft support area.

Many thanks

Paul Backhouse






---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From don at aspalliance.com  Wed Nov 21 08:51:10 2001
From: don at aspalliance.com (Don Makoviney)
Date: Wed Nov 21 08:51:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Macromedia Wants to Certify Dreamweavers
References: <000b01c17291$8672cf20$331d340a@tll>
Message-ID: <00bb01c17291$cb5c4210$f7772241@dmak>

Anyone think this has any sort of validity?

InternetNews: Macromedia Wants to Certify Dreamweavers
-
Developers who become certified through the program can use the Macromedia
Certified Professional program logo on their business cards, letterhead, and
Web sites; and they will also be listed on the Macromedia Web site as a
Macromedia Certified professional.
http://www.makovision.com/m/tr.asp?l=1813

Don Makoviney
 MAKOVISION.COM - Handpicked Internet News For Web Developers
 http://www.makovision.com/
 FREE WebDev/Usability Newsletter
 http://www.makovision.com/subs/




From cvos at netpaths.net  Wed Nov 21 10:23:49 2001
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Wed Nov 21 10:23:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript confirm
Message-ID: <3BFBC58D.83DDD1FB@netpaths.net>

im having a little discrepancy with a script.  It returns a confirm
popup window, but clicking on either cancel or ok allows the user to
continue, not something i want to have happen.  Clicking cancel should
simply keep the user in the same page.

http://www.afreedish.com/promotions/starband.html


thanks,

--


Cayley Vos, Principal

360.714.8395 office
360.223.7799 cell

http://NetPaths.net
____________________________________________
web site design  |  programming  |  search engine marketing





From WiredRepublic at aol.com  Wed Nov 21 10:34:37 2001
From: WiredRepublic at aol.com (WiredRepublic at aol.com)
Date: Wed Nov 21 10:34:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript confirm
Message-ID: 

Works fine in IE, NN and Opera...



From lasso at treefroginteractive.com  Wed Nov 21 10:40:44 2001
From: lasso at treefroginteractive.com (Sean Stephens)
Date: Wed Nov 21 10:40:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Page Heirarchy Program
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Heya

I'm looking for a program to lay out web pages before I start to build them
so I can see their heirarchy.

Like so:


            First Page
                |  
               / \
              /   \
         SECOND   THIRD

Anyone have anything like that or know where I can get it and looks a little
swanker than this?

Sean




From roselli at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 21 10:50:42 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Wed Nov 21 10:50:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Page Heirarchy Program
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200111211650.fALGodZf029260@leo.evolt.org>

i mostly use whiteboards and markers... but i'll often use Visio 
when a client needs to see it...  most recently we built a site map 
that was 5'x6' at 10pt. text... it was *very* thorough...

it depends on where you want to go with it... Visio is handy for 
engineers and diagram lovers, pen and paper is great for drafting, 
Illustrator/FreeHand/CorelDraw is great for making pretty maps for 
clients, etc...

> From: Sean Stephens 
>
> I'm looking for a program to lay out web pages before I start to build
> them so I can see their heirarchy.
> 
> Like so:
> 
>             First Page
>                 |  
>                / \
>               /   \
>          SECOND   THIRD




From joel at spinhead.com  Wed Nov 21 10:54:59 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Wed Nov 21 10:54:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Monitor
In-Reply-To: <3BFB93BB.271B45E3@cybersync.com>
Message-ID: <000101c172a4$11b2d460$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

Martin and Tony are right about a two-monitor setup, but if you're on a
budget, a 17" Viewsonic (E70f, maybe), Mitsubishi Diamond, Iyama, or
Sony Trinitron (all come in flat screen) could be had for around
$200-$250 US. If you can go to $450, any one of those in 19". A decent 2
monitor setup could run to $800US for the Matrox card, a moderate
quality 17" and a high-end 19"

joel at spinhead.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of LMP
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 3:45 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Monitor


Evolters:

Time for a new monitor. Just wondered what the experts would recommend,
keeping in mind I haven't made my first million yet. Web graphics are
key, colour and clarity.

TIA,
Lynn


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From janice at discoverysystems.com  Wed Nov 21 11:03:57 2001
From: janice at discoverysystems.com (JTocher)
Date: Wed Nov 21 11:03:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript confirm
In-Reply-To: <3BFBC58D.83DDD1FB@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: 

Works fine on Mac IE 5, NN 4.7 & NN 6





From laren4 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 21 11:16:35 2001
From: laren4 at yahoo.com (iris)
Date: Wed Nov 21 11:16:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] german web terminology
Message-ID: <20011121161021.68879.qmail@web9807.mail.yahoo.com>

i know there are some germans on this list.  i need
your help.  you can reply in german / off-list.

i'm having trouble with german web terminology.  i'm
beginning to suspect that 'Domain' refers to a whole
website rather than a domain name.  and what on earth
is 'KonnektivitaetsKoordination (KK)'?  

background: 
i'm trying to find a german registrar to transfer a
.de domain to that i already own but that was
registered for my family through the original host for
their site.  i'll be hosting their site on my reseller
account from now on and need a german provider to
handle the name server entries (don't seem to be able
to transfer the domain to a non-german registrar). 
that's all.  don't want hosting, email, url
re-direction or anything like that.

could someone tell me what domain name management is
called in german?

vielen dank
tschuess
iris

p.s. the bureaucracy necessary for this is doing my
head in.  



=====
_____________________
omnia mea mecum porto

biz:http://www.jarmin.com/
fun:http://www.transtribal.org/
_______________________________

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1



From adrian at cubitum.co.uk  Wed Nov 21 11:32:22 2001
From: adrian at cubitum.co.uk (Adrian Simmons)
Date: Wed Nov 21 11:32:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Page Heirarchy Program
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

>I'm looking for a program to lay out web pages before I start to build them
>so I can see their heirarchy.
Adobe GoLive has the ability to do that sort of thing - and create 
all the pages too. Not as flexible as a dedicated illustration tool 
but it does the job.

-- 
Adrian

e-mail:
mailto:adrian at cubitum.co.uk

Web Site:
http://www.cubitum.co.uk

Netscape/AOL Instant Message ID:
adrianatcubitum




From thelist at cbizz.net  Wed Nov 21 11:40:13 2001
From: thelist at cbizz.net (profjj)
Date: Wed Nov 21 11:40:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
Message-ID: 

Hi Listers,

Someone possed an intersting question, about finding the Machine/Computer
Name via the web almost like the same way you can find say the ip address of
the user.

Thanks in advance,

profjj
http://www.cbizz.net




From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Wed Nov 21 11:42:28 2001
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Wed Nov 21 11:42:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Hi profjj

REMOTE_HOST what you were looking for?

HTH

Norman

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of profjj
> Sent: 21 November 2001 16:23
> To: Thelist at Lists. Evolt. Org
> Subject: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
> 
> 
> Hi Listers,
> 
> Someone possed an intersting question, about finding the Machine/Computer
> Name via the web almost like the same way you can find say the ip 
> address of
> the user.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> profjj
> http://www.cbizz.net
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 



From gary at whiteroseproductions.com  Wed Nov 21 11:47:15 2001
From: gary at whiteroseproductions.com (Gary Pool)
Date: Wed Nov 21 11:47:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Illustrator 10
In-Reply-To: <3BFBA50C.DEF4248C@canada.com>
References: <3BFBA50C.DEF4248C@canada.com>
Message-ID: 

>Hi,
>
>I was wondering if someone has a scoop of what's new with Ill 10...


Great program.

A lot of new features and improvements on some old ones.

New tools and tool layout.

If you use Illustrator regularly I would recommend it.

I use Illustrator occasionally and I put it on my wish list.

-- 
Gary Pool
gary at whiteroseproductions.com
Web Developer White Rose Productions
http://www.whiteroseproductions.com

"10 percent of computer users are Mac users, but remember, we are the 
top 10 percent."
 
- Douglas Adams



From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Wed Nov 21 11:49:40 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Wed Nov 21 11:49:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Proffjj

here a page that has a full list of all Response.ServerVariables:

http://www.asp101.com/samples/servvars.asp

cheers

paul



From thelist at cbizz.net  Wed Nov 21 11:53:42 2001
From: thelist at cbizz.net (profjj)
Date: Wed Nov 21 11:53:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Norman,
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~:~>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>
:From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
:[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Norman Beresford
:Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:42 PM
:To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
:Subject: RE: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
:
:Hi profjj
:
:REMOTE_HOST what you were looking for?
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~:~>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>
It gives me the same results as remote_addr
208.158.13.131 - remote_addr
208.158.13.131 - remote_host

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~:~>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>
:HTH
:Norman
:> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
:> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of profjj
:> Sent: 21 November 2001 16:23
:> To: Thelist at Lists. Evolt. Org
:> Subject: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
:> Hi Listers,
:>
:> Someone possed an intersting question, about finding the Machine/Computer
:> Name via the web almost like the same way you can find say the ip
:> address of
:> the user.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~:~>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>




From mccreath at ak.net  Wed Nov 21 11:58:31 2001
From: mccreath at ak.net (mccreath)
Date: Wed Nov 21 11:58:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Page Heirarchy Program
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sean Stephens
>
> Heya
>
> I'm looking for a program to lay out web pages before I start to
> build them so I can see their heirarchy.

Hi, Sean --

I usually do mine with a pencil on paper, but if I need to present something
to someone else, I'll make it pretty in FreeHand. Any drawing program should
work.

You might also look here:

http://www.jjg.net/ia/visvocab/

Jesse James Garrett has created a simple methodology for mapping sites and
includes templates for FreeHand and Visio. It's probably an hour's worth of
reading, but even if you don't want to read the whole thing, the templates
are nice.

David





From gary at whiteroseproductions.com  Wed Nov 21 12:07:58 2001
From: gary at whiteroseproductions.com (Gary Pool)
Date: Wed Nov 21 12:07:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Monitor
In-Reply-To: <3BFB93BB.271B45E3@cybersync.com>
References: <3BFB93BB.271B45E3@cybersync.com>
Message-ID: 

>Evolters:
>
>Time for a new monitor. Just wondered what the experts would recommend,
>keeping in mind I haven't made my first million yet. Web graphics are
>key, colour and clarity.

In my opinion Lacie makes the best graphics monitors for the money.

http://www.lacie.com/products/family.cfm?id=2701591E-4B65-11D5-97C40090278D3ED0

I have used a Barco for over a year (great monitor), high price, POOR support..

-- 
Gary Pool
gary at whiteroseproductions.com
Web Developer White Rose Productions
http://www.whiteroseproductions.com

"10 percent of computer users are Mac users, but remember, we are the 
top 10 percent."
 
- Douglas Adams



From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Wed Nov 21 12:10:28 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Wed Nov 21 12:10:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript variable into CF variable
Message-ID: 

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Hi there

With Apache, the error page (and this is true for all
error documents, not just 404) will report the standard
environmental variables for the *real page* which you're
using for the error handler.

So if your .htaccess contains
ErrorDocument 404 /errors/error-404.html
then your standard environmental variables for the URL
http://yourdomain.com/nosuchpage.html
will be those of
http://yourdomain.com/errors/error-404.html

Fortunately, Apache defines some other environmental variables
which pass information to the error page about the page which
was initially requested:

REDIRECT_HTTP_ACCEPT=*/*, image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg
REDIRECT_HTTP_USER_AGENT=Mozilla/1.1b2 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/712)
REDIRECT_PATH=.:/bin:/usr/local/bin:/etc
REDIRECT_QUERY_STRING=
REDIRECT_REMOTE_ADDR=121.345.78.123
REDIRECT_REMOTE_HOST=ooh.ahhh.com
REDIRECT_SERVER_NAME=crash.bang.edu
REDIRECT_SERVER_PORT=80
REDIRECT_SERVER_SOFTWARE=Apache/0.8.15
REDIRECT_URL=/nosuchpage.html

(note the REDIRECT_ prefix)

This is taken from
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/custom-error.html

Now whether CF picks these up, I can't tell you. But Apache provides them.

Cheers
Martin


To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:  Re: [thelist] JavaScript variable into CF variable

I do know that IIS and Apache handle the 404 differently.  I think evolt
went through a similar problem.  Dan, did you not have to rewrite a portion
of Apache and recompile to get it to pass the original url to the 404
handler?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Minh Lee Goon" 
Subject: Re: [thelist] JavaScript variable into CF variable


: #cgi.Query_String# doesn't return a value. Neither does #cgi.Path_Info#.
: I'm using CF5 with Apache on Windows. I wonder if Apache might have
: something to do with it, because the article I read uses IIS.
:
: Joshua Olson wrote:
: >
: > Take a look at cgi.query_string and see if it contains the url in it.
: >
: > -joshua



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

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From scott at milcap.com  Wed Nov 21 11:28:56 2001
From: scott at milcap.com (Scott Adamson)
Date: Wed Nov 21 11:28:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
References: 
Message-ID: <013001c172b1$fb288880$4501000a@milcap.com>

how about server_name ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "profjj" 
To: "Thelist at Lists. Evolt. Org" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:22 PM
Subject: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name


> Hi Listers,
>
> Someone possed an intersting question, about finding the Machine/Computer
> Name via the web almost like the same way you can find say the ip address
of
> the user.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> profjj
> http://www.cbizz.net
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From thelist at cbizz.net  Wed Nov 21 11:33:31 2001
From: thelist at cbizz.net (profjj)
Date: Wed Nov 21 11:33:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
In-Reply-To: <013001c172b1$fb288880$4501000a@milcap.com>
Message-ID: 

Actually,

I was not looking for the name of the server, but the Computer Name of the
user visiting the website.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>
:From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
:[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott Adamson
:Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 1:29 PM
:Subject: Re: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
:
:how about server_name ?
:From: "profjj" 
:Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:22 PM
:Subject: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
:> Hi Listers,
:>
:> Someone possed an intersting question, about finding the Machine/Computer
:> Name via the web almost like the same way you can find say the ip address
:of
:> the user.
:>
:> Thanks in advance,
:>
:> profjj
:> http://www.cbizz.net
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>
profjj
http://www.cbizz.net




From emagin at onebox.com  Wed Nov 21 11:42:51 2001
From: emagin at onebox.com (Ed)
Date: Wed Nov 21 11:42:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Monitor
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

You are a Mac user, you are not a millionaire.  I'd recommend the
Studioworks 995E
Awesome reviews, high res at 75-85Hz, works great with our G4.
Worked so well, I got 3 more for our Win2K workstations.

It's not huge 19", but it got great reviews and it can be had for under 180.
I got the 3 at Dell for 150 each with free shipping!  (gotta search for
similar deals though)
I have to say I'm quite happy. It may not be high end enough for you doing
heavy graphics ??

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=studioworks+995e

 : [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gary Pool
 : Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 8:59 AM
 : >Time for a new monitor. Just wondered what the experts would recommend,
 : >keeping in mind I haven't made my first million yet. Web graphics are
 : >key, colour and clarity.
 : gary at whiteroseproductions.com




From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk  Wed Nov 21 11:45:45 2001
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Wed Nov 21 11:45:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Page Heirarchy Program
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1006364781.4932.5.camel@cincinnati.home>

On Wed, 2001-11-21 at 15:34, Sean Stephens wrote:


> 
>             First Page
>                 |  
>                / \
>               /   \
>          SECOND   THIRD
> 
> Anyone have anything like that or know where I can get it and looks a little
> swanker than this?


A program that I use is Inspiration (MacOS9/Win32) - 
http://www.inspiration.com/productinfo/Inspiration/index.cfm

It's actually a visual learning tool, but I've found it really excels in
this sort of stuff. 

One of the handier features is the ability to enter text in an outline
mode and then it will automatically build the hirearchy based on that
outline.

I've put an example image from a current project (with all client
branding removed... heh) up at
http://members.evolt.org/garrett/inspiration.gif so you can have a look.

G.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/




From IanOrnstein at NC.SLR.com  Wed Nov 21 11:56:10 2001
From: IanOrnstein at NC.SLR.com (Ornstein, Ian)
Date: Wed Nov 21 11:56:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Page Heirarchy Program
Message-ID: <313308805876D511BB8B00D0B7B961F53CC4A9@excnc4.nc.slr.com>

Have you seen:
http://bjork.net/wireframe/index.cfm
?

IanO
-----Original Message-----
From: aardvark [mailto:roselli at earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:44 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Web Page Heirarchy Program



i mostly use whiteboards and markers... but i'll often use Visio 
when a client needs to see it...  most recently we built a site map 
that was 5'x6' at 10pt. text... it was *very* thorough...

it depends on where you want to go with it... Visio is handy for 
engineers and diagram lovers, pen and paper is great for drafting, 
Illustrator/FreeHand/CorelDraw is great for making pretty maps for 
clients, etc...

> From: Sean Stephens 
>
> I'm looking for a program to lay out web pages before I start to build
> them so I can see their heirarchy.
> 
> Like so:
> 
>             First Page
>                 |  
>                / \
>               /   \
>          SECOND   THIRD




From nopun at bellsouth.net  Wed Nov 21 11:56:52 2001
From: nopun at bellsouth.net (Tyme)
Date: Wed Nov 21 11:56:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions on thelist
References: <20011114063051.D649F51F95@relay.evolt.org> <003501c171b9$da7d0780$e6c92cc3@athlon800> <3BF9985D.5050501@members.evolt.org> <00a801c17210$8b9ab660$7399fea9@tyme> <027401c17219$06516130$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <001101c172b6$159fe7e0$7399fea9@tyme>

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Bennett 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions on thelist


> I don't know if it's just me being thin-skinned, but I'm collecting a
whole

TYME~~~~~~>  I'm gonna go with "yes" on this one.  ;-)
(I suppose the "smileys" to show tone bug you also.)

> One of them is your habit of staring your text blocks with :
> TYME}

TYME-----| Oh, good gosh. It isn't programming. Are you trying to parse
these pearls of wisdom?  That would be your first mistake. Does the default
">" bother you too?  Afterall, the ">" is a closing character.  Furthermore,
one could argue that "> my comment..." implies "Nothing greater than my
comment".  You do realize just how geeky that peeve is, don't you?  Step
outside the programming box.

> It's like rubbing a cat backwards!

TYME+++++]  Hey, you rub your pussy your way, I'll rub my pussy my way.
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

> After declaring the name, you should
> start with an opening bracket:
> TYME{
> It makes me cringe every time I see it :o)

TYME}}}}}}}}  You should thank me.  I bet all that cringing has made you
look years younger.

> Another one is peoples annoying habit of writing +1 all the time, instead
of
> a constructive comment, or using the word "like" in the wrong way, when
they
> say, "I was like, wow". Oh yes, the word SO in capitals is horrible too,
"I
> was like, this is SO not the right thing to do" , brr, gives me the
shivers!

TYME=>}] Cringing, shivering...Wow, you are like a 24/7 isometric workout.

> And of course people who recycle the same joke in their signature time
after
> time, makes you wonder how often you can repeat a joke before it becomes
> boring. I think about three times.

TYME####  I got this one:
In an effort to avoid annoying repeated signature lines, stop reading
after the author's name.

> I think I probably just need to take a break, my nerves getting the better
> of me!

TYME****)  I think that is best for all of us.  ...Lucky for you that I
don't post to this list often.  For god sake, don't join the WDVLTalk list.
It could put you over the edge.


> Richard.

TYME} That little period after your name is SO annoying.  "Richard period."
What are you trying to imply...that you have only a single-name.





From mike at cfnews.co.uk  Wed Nov 21 11:57:03 2001
From: mike at cfnews.co.uk (Mike Townend)
Date: Wed Nov 21 11:57:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <358AB76ACB426A43B8D134872505A3E20CB44A@saturn.nsg.local>

What youll probably have to do is a reverse lookup of the IP address...

Not sure what language you are using but there is probabbly a cfx/com
object available to let you do this


HTH

Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of profjj
Sent: 21 November 2001 17:33
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name


Actually,

I was not looking for the name of the server, but the Computer Name of
the user visiting the website.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>
:From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
:[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott Adamson
:Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 1:29 PM
:Subject: Re: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
:
:how about server_name ?
:From: "profjj" 
:Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:22 PM
:Subject: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
:> Hi Listers,
:>
:> Someone possed an intersting question, about finding the
Machine/Computer :> Name via the web almost like the same way you can
find say the ip address :of :> the user. :> :> Thanks in advance, :> :>
profjj :> http://www.cbizz.net
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>
profjj
http://www.cbizz.net


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From developer at lazor.net  Wed Nov 21 12:03:32 2001
From: developer at lazor.net (developer at lazor.net)
Date: Wed Nov 21 12:03:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
In-Reply-To: <358AB76ACB426A43B8D134872505A3E20CB44A@saturn.nsg.local>
References: <358AB76ACB426A43B8D134872505A3E20CB44A@saturn.nsg.local>
Message-ID: <200111211302400144.00A04A51@mail.lazor.net>

I wrote a custom tag for coldfusion that does this by looking up at the following address.  I don't know how permanent this service is though.

http://www.globalviet.com/x/gethost.html

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
On 11/21/2001 at 5:56 PM Mike Townend wrote:

|What youll probably have to do is a reverse lookup of the IP address...
|
|Not sure what language you are using but there is probabbly a cfx/com
|object available to let you do this
|
|
|HTH
|
|Mike
|
|
|
|-----Original Message-----
|From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
|[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of profjj
|Sent: 21 November 2001 17:33
|To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
|Subject: RE: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
|
|
|Actually,
|
|I was not looking for the name of the server, but the Computer Name of
|the user visiting the website.
|
|:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>
|:From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
|:[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott Adamson
|:Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 1:29 PM
|:Subject: Re: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
|:
|:how about server_name ?
|:From: "profjj" 
|:Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:22 PM
|:Subject: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
|:> Hi Listers,
|:>
|:> Someone possed an intersting question, about finding the
|Machine/Computer :> Name via the web almost like the same way you can
|find say the ip address :of :> the user. :> :> Thanks in advance, :> :>
|profjj :> http://www.cbizz.net
|:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>
|profjj
|http://www.cbizz.net
|
|
|---------------------------------------
|For unsubscribe and other options, including
|the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
|Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
|
|
|---------------------------------------
|For unsubscribe and other options, including
|the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
|http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !






From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 21 12:07:05 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Wed Nov 21 12:07:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Monitor
In-Reply-To: <3BFB93BB.271B45E3@cybersync.com>
Message-ID: <20011121180704.20472.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com>

For a CRT monitor, I'm actually happily surprised with with LaCie
Electron Blue series of 21" monitors. They are very reasonable,
and have great specs. If money is flowing loosely, SONY makes a
couple of good ones. I have a SONY G500 that's rock stable too.
But give a look at the LaCie products!

/rg

--- LMP  wrote:
> Evolters:
> 
> Time for a new monitor. Just wondered what the experts would
> recommend,
> keeping in mind I haven't made my first million yet. Web
> graphics are
> key, colour and clarity.
> 
> TIA,
> Lynn


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1



From list-matt at reprocessed.org  Wed Nov 21 12:10:49 2001
From: list-matt at reprocessed.org (Matt Patterson)
Date: Wed Nov 21 12:10:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site check - reprocessed.org
Message-ID: <20011121181001-r01010800-a77619cd-0910-0108@10.0.0.15>

Listees,

I've finally gotten my personal website, http://reprocessed.org/, into a
state where I'm comfortable inviting opinions.

Reprocessed.org is a pure XHTML/CSS/DOM construction, with an emphasis
on the separation of presentation and content. I've tried to do this
using clean markup and more complex CSS. I've placed a premium on not
coding for different browsers, and instead coding to the specs. I'd love
comments on the design, the CSS, the DOM scripting I've used as well as
issues like usability.

You may also find some of my writing of interest. There are a few 
essays about electronic publishing on the site, including my
undergraduate dissertation.

There are a few caveats, primarily that this is a CSS 2 site, and a lot
of the typography is achieved using contextual selectors that simply
won't work on IE on the PC. In the process of developing the site I've
fallen foul of some browser bugs and unvcovered others. I've also hit
problems with things behaving as they should but causing problems
anyway. The main things to watch out for are these:

General problem: I use a position: fixed navigation bar, and links
within a page cause the heading or other part of the page to jump right
to the top of the page, as they should. This leaves them obscured by the
bar, which can be annoying, especially when coupled with the Mozilla bug
below...

Browser bugs:

IE 5/Mac [OS 9]: There's a bug in the implementation of position: fixed
which basically renders all links unclickable if the page is scrolled
away from the top of the page. To work around this the position: fixed
navigation bars are switched to position: absolute ones. This isn't the
best solution and I'm considering others, although the problem has been
largely fixed in the Mac OS X version of IE.

IE 6/PC: There's a bug with @import whereby chained importing (page
imports local stylesheet imports section stylesheet imports base
stylesheet) can only follow three deep, which presented a problem with a
few documents which imported a special stylesheet, then the local,
section and base ones. The base stylesheet never got imported, causing
basic presentation features to be undefined. A mess. I've used a
workaround, but I have to say that I don't like it.

Mozilla/Netscape 6: There's a bug with screen redrawing and position:
fixed objects that only manifests itself here (as far as I can tell)
when the secondary navigation stuff is switched on in the Essays section
of the site. The bug causes bits of the navigation bar to draw
themselves down the screen when you scroll up. Fix by reloading or
simply resizing the window slightly. Hopefully this will be fixed quite
soon.

Other browsers have problems which aren't bugs as such:

Opera: Due to limitations in the DOM implementation in Opera the more
advanced navigation and note features I've used in Essays section of the
site simply don't work. I tried working around with no joy, so sorry
folks...

OmniWeb: OmniWeb's Javascript, DOM and CSS implementations in 4.0 are
seriously lacking, however it does understand @import. the front page is
protected from this, but internal pages aren't. While it doesn't render
them unusable - all the content's there but it's an awful mess visually.

Thanks!

Matt


-- 
   Matt Patterson | Typographer
    | http://reprocessed.org/



From jonhall at ozline.net  Wed Nov 21 12:10:52 2001
From: jonhall at ozline.net (Jon Hall)
Date: Wed Nov 21 12:10:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name
References: 
Message-ID: <01ff01c172b8$2ebf6a50$a41f88d8@ns2>

Are you thinking about the Windows Netbios name? This isn't sent to the web
server by any browser that I know of. It is possible to get the Netbios
name, but it would be far from perfect. A user running a firewall or a non
windows machine will not send back the name...
If you are running Win2k (not sure about nt or 9x), but at the command
prompt type nbtstat -A  and you will get the netbios name along
with other stuff. If you wanted to do this on a web server, you would
probably want to build a server side component to connect to the machine and
grab the name and return it to your web site, rather than parsing nbtstat
though.

jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "profjj" 
To: "Thelist at Lists. Evolt. Org" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 11:22 AM
Subject: [thelist] Machine/Computer Name


> Hi Listers,
>
> Someone possed an intersting question, about finding the Machine/Computer
> Name via the web almost like the same way you can find say the ip address
of
> the user.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> profjj
> http://www.cbizz.net
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Wed Nov 21 12:21:05 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Wed Nov 21 12:21:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript variable into CF variable
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

martin,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com
>
> This is taken from
> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/custom-error.html
>
> Now whether CF picks these up, I can't tell you. But
> Apache provides them.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

it doesn't appear to from my tests.

there is a variable that contains information about the current error
document though -- request_uri.  that was something that was added though to
accommodate the evolt.org cms.

dan, what'd you do to add that environment variable?  (i'll need this for my
coldfusion search engine friendly urls article i'm working on)

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From allie at pajunas.com  Wed Nov 21 12:23:58 2001
From: allie at pajunas.com (Allie Micka)
Date: Wed Nov 21 12:23:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site check - reprocessed.org
In-Reply-To: <20011121181001-r01010800-a77619cd-0910-0108@10.0.0.15>
Message-ID: 

>I've finally gotten my personal website, http://reprocessed.org/, into a
>state where I'm comfortable inviting opinions.

Very cool. I like the responsiveness of the DHTML navigation.  The biggest
problem I see with it though, is that some of your links leave the index
page (photography menu, My portfolio, etc) and all navigation is lost.  If I
hit the back button I'm back where I started and all the hard work I've done
to navigate 2-3 levels into the site is lost!

btw, I'm using ie 5.5 on a pc.

Thanks,
Allie Micka
pajunas interactive, inc.
http://pajunas.com





From seahorse at inreach.com  Wed Nov 21 12:32:48 2001
From: seahorse at inreach.com (C Williams)
Date: Wed Nov 21 12:32:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Macromedia Wants to Certify Dreamweavers
References: <20011121173340.964A2BFE8@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <001f01c172be$55dbb7a0$3e14d1d1@old98>

This certification questions comes up from time to time, but I think this
type of certification may help you get a cup of coffee.  Or maybe put you
ahead of an applicant who may otherwise be on equal terms with site
development skills.. It may impress a client.  It certifies that you can
pass a test.

I read over the desciption of what they test and if you use this program for
any length of time, you should be able to pass with flying colors.  For
$100? It sounds like a way for Macromedia to make some cash and promote
their products.  It will help them say "look at all these Dreamweaver
Professionals using Macromedia products".

By the way, I have been using DW since '98 and I love it - do I really need
a test? I have so many college degrees and certificates of training they
fill a binder 4 inches thick.  Has any employer ever asked to see them?
Only the public service agencies of old want proof of college credits.  Does
it keep me from taking classes?  Never.  I do it because it gives me a sense
of accomplishment and I love school, even as one who is creeping towards
long in the tooth.

It looks like the test would be interesting and I look forward to hearing
other comments on this. It does not certify you can put together a logical,
meaningful, well-designed website.

Chris

> Subject: [thelist] Macromedia Wants to Certify Dreamweavers
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Anyone think this has any sort of validity?
>
> InternetNews: Macromedia Wants to Certify Dreamweavers
> -
> Developers who become certified through the program can use the Macromedia
> Certified Professional program logo on their business cards, letterhead,
and
> Web sites; and they will also be listed on the Macromedia Web site as a
> Macromedia Certified professional.
> http://www.makovision.com/m/tr.asp?l=1813
>





From jonhall at ozline.net  Wed Nov 21 12:44:21 2001
From: jonhall at ozline.net (Jon Hall)
Date: Wed Nov 21 12:44:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Monitor
References: <000101c172a4$11b2d460$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>
Message-ID: <021701c172bc$dccec100$a41f88d8@ns2>

The Mitsubishi Diamondtron's are excellent. I've never seen a monitor with
better image quality (other than an Iyama...). I currently own a 21 inch
Viewsonic trinitron and bought 17 inch Diamondtron afor my girfriend and
even though it is much smaller, the image clarity makes me drool. Whenever I
am designing graphics on my computer, I always take a look at it on hers
before I finish because I can see details or small color inconsistencies
that dont even show on the 21 inch trinitron...

For me the monitor is the most important part of any computer, spend as much
as possible on it now, because you are going to be using it for 2 or 3 pcs.

jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel D Canfield" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:49 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Monitor


> Martin and Tony are right about a two-monitor setup, but if you're on a
> budget, a 17" Viewsonic (E70f, maybe), Mitsubishi Diamond, Iyama, or
> Sony Trinitron (all come in flat screen) could be had for around
> $200-$250 US. If you can go to $450, any one of those in 19". A decent 2
> monitor setup could run to $800US for the Matrox card, a moderate
> quality 17" and a high-end 19"
>
> joel at spinhead.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of LMP
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 3:45 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Monitor
>
>
> Evolters:
>
> Time for a new monitor. Just wondered what the experts would recommend,
> keeping in mind I haven't made my first million yet. Web graphics are
> key, colour and clarity.
>
> TIA,
> Lynn
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From markgill at uwalumni.com  Wed Nov 21 13:11:21 2001
From: markgill at uwalumni.com (Mark Gillingham)
Date: Wed Nov 21 13:11:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache mod_rewrite
In-Reply-To: <20011120125026.85697BFD6@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <814E49D1-DEB3-11D5-8202-0030659AA3EC@uwalumni.com>

A site structure was altered in two ways: a subdirectory was moved and 
the extension changed from "html" to "shtml." I'm trying to pick up 
pages that have both problems. I am able to pick up each problem 
separately with other rules.

The rule that I thought would work follows:

RewriteRule junior/(.+)\.html$           programs/junior/$1\.shtml  [L]

The directory "junior" is now at "programs/junior". If one points to an 
old bookmark (e.g., /junior/about/stuff.html) I want to grab the stuff 
after "junior/" and before ".html" and replace it what surrounds it, 
both before (with programs/junior/" and after (with .shtml). Any advice?

Mark




From morbus at disobey.com  Wed Nov 21 13:17:14 2001
From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff)
Date: Wed Nov 21 13:17:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache mod_rewrite
In-Reply-To: <814E49D1-DEB3-11D5-8202-0030659AA3EC@uwalumni.com>
References: <20011120125026.85697BFD6@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011121141627.009ecec0@red.totalnetnh.net>

 >RewriteRule junior/(.+)\.html$           programs/junior/$1\.shtml  [L]

Don't get so complicated.

   RedirectMatch low/listings/(.*)\.htm$ $1.shtml

That's how I handle a similar instance over
at http://disobey.com/low/ - hope this helps.


--
Morbus Iff ( softcore vulcan porn rulezzzzz )
http://www.disobey.com/ && http://www.gamegrene.com/
please me: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/wishlist/25USVJDH68554
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus






From djc at members.evolt.org  Wed Nov 21 13:34:41 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Wed Nov 21 13:34:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript variable into CF variable
References: <3BF96749.112B64F@sdsumus.sdstate.edu> <0b1201c1713b$5cfd2e30$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <3BF97068.B8F01D23@sdsumus.sdstate.edu> <0b2401c1713d$e2cf6170$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <3BFC019E.3060903@members.evolt.org>

Sorry, I almost missed this thread(only 'javascript' was showing in the 
subject cell :)

This was an issue back with CF 4.5.1 - it wasn't returning all of the 
apache CGI vars(as mentioned). I ended up having to edit and recompile 
the coldfusion module to have it recognize cgi.path_info and a couple 
others. That was on Unix though, so I don't see how it would relate to NT.

Minh - what version of Apache and CF are you using?

.djc.

Joshua Olson wrote:

> I do know that IIS and Apache handle the 404 differently.  I think evolt
> went through a similar problem.  Dan, did you not have to rewrite a portion
> of Apache and recompile to get it to pass the original url to the 404
> handler?
> 
> -joshua
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Minh Lee Goon" 
> Subject: Re: [thelist] JavaScript variable into CF variable
> 
> 
> : #cgi.Query_String# doesn't return a value. Neither does #cgi.Path_Info#.
> : I'm using CF5 with Apache on Windows. I wonder if Apache might have
> : something to do with it, because the article I read uses IIS.





From rthigpen at nc.rr.com  Wed Nov 21 13:43:38 2001
From: rthigpen at nc.rr.com (Ron Thigpen)
Date: Wed Nov 21 13:43:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] [Fwd: mozilla.org releases Mozilla 0.9.6]
Message-ID: <3BFC03E9.5070101@nc.rr.com>

Mozilla 0.9.6 has been released.

--rt

-------- Original Message --------
From: asa at mozilla.org (Asa Dotzler)
To: mozilla-announce at mozilla.org
Xref: secnews.netscape.com netscape.public.mozilla.announce:239

On October 20, 2001 mozilla.org made available for download binaries of
the Mozilla 0.9.6 Milestone.  The builds and release notes are available
at http://www.mozilla.org/releases/.  New to this milestone are fixes
for about 1,600 bugs including:

* Mozilla now displays page icons in the url bar (Expect support for
shortcut icons (aka favicon) in Mozilla 0.9.7). Page icons can be
defined in the html head section of a document like so:

     
     

* Mozilla can now display Windows .BMP and .ICO images on all platforms.
* Print Preview has been implemented.
* Macintosh Page Setup has been implemented (Bug 36796)
* Mail message "labels" support has been implemented. (Bug 81292)
* Mail "prefill mail filter" support has been implemented (Bug 65761)
* The new Search for item on the context menu lets you search for any
   text you highlight on a web page.
   * Select some text in browser window.
   * Right click in the browser window and a context menu will
     pop up.
   * Choose the Search for item and Mozilla will search for the
     highlighted text with your default search engine.

--Asa





From djc at members.evolt.org  Wed Nov 21 13:47:39 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Wed Nov 21 13:47:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] CF missing apache vars ( was: JavaScript variable into CF variable )
References:  
Message-ID: <3BFC04A8.9070006@members.evolt.org>

jeffy -

your tests are right..

by default, CF is only configured to return:
AUTH_TYPE, CONTENT_LENGTH, CONTENT_TYPE, PATH_INFO, PATH_TRANSLATED, 
QUERY_STRING, REQUEST_URI, REMOTE_ADDR, REMOTE_HOST, REMOTE_USER, 
SCRIPT_NAME, SERVER_NAME, SERVER_PORT, SERVER_PROTOCOL, SERVER_SOFTWARE, 
            REQUEST_METHOD, HTTP_REFERER, HTTP_USER_AGENT

from apache. so REDIRECT_QUERY_STRING for example, wouldn't be in the 
CGI scope(or whatever its called) that CF returns unless you *manually* 
add it and recompile the CF module. this, afaik, is a CF bug. or 
'feature' if thats whatcha wanna call it :)

anyways, to answer your question, i had to add that enviornment variable 
to the module and recompile it because at the time, CF didn't recognize 
REQUEST_URI by default, although in 4.5.1SP2 and up, it does.

if that doesn't answer the question, lemme know and i'll pick it up 
faster with the new subject :)

.djc.

.jeff wrote:

> martin,
> 
> 
>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>>From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com
>>
>>This is taken from
>>http://httpd.apache.org/docs/custom-error.html
>>
>>Now whether CF picks these up, I can't tell you. But
>>Apache provides them.
>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>>
> 
> it doesn't appear to from my tests.
> 
> there is a variable that contains information about the current error
> document though -- request_uri.  that was something that was added though to
> accommodate the evolt.org cms.
> 
> dan, what'd you do to add that environment variable?  (i'll need this for my
> coldfusion search engine friendly urls article i'm working on)





From djc at members.evolt.org  Wed Nov 21 13:50:08 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Wed Nov 21 13:50:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] [Fwd: mozilla.org releases Mozilla 0.9.6]
References: <3BFC03E9.5070101@nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3BFC053C.2080605@members.evolt.org>

Mirrored on browsers.evolt.org too if the mozilla.org FTP servers are 
slow.. http://browsers.evolt.org/index.cfm/dir/mozilla/mozilla_0.9.6/

(been using it all day, and as usual, very snappy, much improved)

.djc.

Ron Thigpen wrote:

> Mozilla 0.9.6 has been released.
> 
> --rt
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> From: asa at mozilla.org (Asa Dotzler)
> To: mozilla-announce at mozilla.org
> Xref: secnews.netscape.com netscape.public.mozilla.announce:239
> 
> On October 20, 2001 mozilla.org made available for download binaries of
> the Mozilla 0.9.6 Milestone.  The builds and release notes are available
> at http://www.mozilla.org/releases/.  New to this milestone are fixes
> for about 1,600 bugs including:
> 
> * Mozilla now displays page icons in the url bar (Expect support for
> shortcut icons (aka favicon) in Mozilla 0.9.7). Page icons can be
> defined in the html head section of a document like so:
> 
>     
>      HREF="/images/global/branding/dellecomicon.ico">
> 
> * Mozilla can now display Windows .BMP and .ICO images on all platforms.
> * Print Preview has been implemented.
> * Macintosh Page Setup has been implemented (Bug 36796)
> * Mail message "labels" support has been implemented. (Bug 81292)
> * Mail "prefill mail filter" support has been implemented (Bug 65761)
> * The new Search for item on the context menu lets you search for any
>   text you highlight on a web page.
>   * Select some text in browser window.
>   * Right click in the browser window and a context menu will
>     pop up.
>   * Choose the Search for item and Mozilla will search for the
>     highlighted text with your default search engine.
> 
> --Asa





From list-matt at reprocessed.org  Wed Nov 21 14:08:33 2001
From: list-matt at reprocessed.org (Matt Patterson)
Date: Wed Nov 21 14:08:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site check - reprocessed.org
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20011121200726-r01010800-8a371afe-0921-0108@10.0.0.15>

On 21/11/01 at 12:25 pm, allie at pajunas.com (Allie Micka) wrote:

> >I've finally gotten my personal website, http://reprocessed.org/,
> >into a state where I'm comfortable inviting opinions.
> 
> Very cool. I like the responsiveness of the DHTML navigation.  The
> biggest problem I see with it though, is that some of your links leave
> the index page (photography menu, My portfolio, etc) and all
> navigation is lost.  If I hit the back button I'm back where I started
> and all the hard work I've done to navigate 2-3 levels into the site
> is lost!

Do you mean that when you leave the front page, when you go back you're
back at the start, or do you mean that once inside the main body of the
site there's no navigation clearly visible. 

As far as the former is concerned, I'm aware of it and am thinking about
implementing a cookie-based system which remembers which part of the
front page you were looking at when you left. I'm not sure howw
irritated people are by the resetting of the page.

If you mean that there's no navigation visible in the main body of the
site then since:
 
> I'm using ie 5.5 on a pc.

There's not much I can say other than, there's breadcrumb navigation at
the bottom of the page, but if you were to use Netscape 6.1/6.2 or a
recent (0.8.1+) build of Mozilla you'll have a significantly different
experience...

Thanks

Matt


-- 
   Matt Patterson | Typographer
    | http://reprocessed.org/



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Wed Nov 21 14:11:19 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Wed Nov 21 14:11:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] CF missing apache vars ( was: JavaScript variable into CF variable )
In-Reply-To: <3BFC04A8.9070006@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: 

dan

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Daniel J. Cody
>
> anyways, to answer your question, i had to add that
> enviornment variable to the module and recompile it
> because at the time, CF didn't recognize REQUEST_URI
> by default, although in 4.5.1SP2 and up, it does.
>
> if that doesn't answer the question, lemme know and
> i'll pick it up faster with the new subject :)
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

it sort of answers my question.  what i *really* need is a description of
the steps you went through to add that environment variable or perhaps an
article i can go read somewhere that explains it in simple terms (maybe you
want to write one for thesite?).

speaking of environment variables, has anybody ever managed to successfully
add environment variables to iis 5?  the trick i'm trying to pull is to make
cgi.server_addr (the ip address the web request was sent to) available to
coldfusion (it's available in asp so i know it exists).

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From spalmisano at usashs.com  Wed Nov 21 14:13:08 2001
From: spalmisano at usashs.com (Salvatore Palmisano)
Date: Wed Nov 21 14:13:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
In-Reply-To: <3BFC03E9.5070101@nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <001101c172c8$f9f1e5d0$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>

Is it possible with HTML or CSS to rotate text as its displayed in the
browser?  Or is this something better done with a graphic?
Id like to rotate a specifc line of text 90 degrees counter clockwise so
that the first letter of the first word is at the 'bottom' of a table cell.

Thanks.

--Salvatore

Current WinAmp Song:
Aquaplex Meets Junk Project - Brightness (Tag`s Trance Trip - A Progressive
J




From list-matt at reprocessed.org  Wed Nov 21 14:13:30 2001
From: list-matt at reprocessed.org (Matt Patterson)
Date: Wed Nov 21 14:13:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site check - reprocessed.org
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20011121201124-r01010800-d0bddf83-0921-0108@10.0.0.15>

On 21/11/01 at 12:25 pm, allie at pajunas.com (Allie Micka) wrote:

> Very cool. I like the responsiveness of the DHTML navigation.

I forgot to say thanks for the nice comments...

Thanks!

Matt


-- 
   Matt Patterson | Typographer
    | http://reprocessed.org/



From djc at starkmedia.com  Wed Nov 21 14:22:16 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Wed Nov 21 14:22:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] CF missing apache vars ( was: JavaScript variable into CF variable )
References: 
Message-ID: <3BFC0CC5.8020107@starkmedia.com>

sure, i'll whip an article up this weekend..

.djc.

.jeff wrote:


> it sort of answers my question.  what i *really* need is a description of
> the steps you went through to add that environment variable or perhaps an
> article i can go read somewhere that explains it in simple terms (maybe you
> want to write one for thesite?).





From teckllow at rainbowhouseinc.com  Wed Nov 21 14:28:23 2001
From: teckllow at rainbowhouseinc.com (Teck Low)
Date: Wed Nov 21 14:28:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation
Message-ID: <200111211335.fALDZo433005@proxy1.addr.com>

Paul:

Can the W2K server see the workstations in the network neighborhood? 
Most probably computer browser service is on in the workstation 
unless turned off. If this the W2K server see the workstation, it is 
the browsing in the server not updating. Check the event log for any 
warnings, errors.

Try this: Shut down the computer browser service in the W2K server & 
start the computer browser service in the W2K server. If this doesn't 
work then do a cold boot. If failed, I'm lost.

Teck Low 
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org 
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Paul Backhouse
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:37 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Windows 2000 server with NT workstation

Hello people,



We have a compaq prolient network server that has Windows 2000 Server
installed.

We have 5 NT workstations used by our developers - everything has 
been fine
until about 2 weeks ago.

Suddenly when clicking on NetWork Neigborhood nothing showed up - i 
though i
might have a bug or something that has developed over time and 
corrupted a
file somewhere - but no - this was not that case - now we have all 5 
NT
workstations that occassionally lose the network neighborhood - you 
can use
Find a computer to see the pc you want to connect to - but this isn't 
great.

This has also started to happen on a couple of the Windows 98 
machines we
have aswell.

I was wondering if anyone out there has come across this problem 
before with
Windows 2000 Server supporting NT Workstations or has any clue why 
this has
started to happen?

All the NT Workstations have the latest Service pack and have been 
working
fine.

Any help would be greatly appreciated - I am at a loss and our 
Network admin
guy is at a loss aswell - and theres no mention of this problem 
anywhere on
the micorsoft support area.

Many thanks

Paul Backhouse






From krr at ix.netcom.com  Wed Nov 21 14:28:29 2001
From: krr at ix.netcom.com (Kevin Raleigh)
Date: Wed Nov 21 14:28:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: thelist digest, Vol 1 #1804 - 36 msgs
References: <20011121173340.7791B51F71@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <003701c172c7$e4d160f0$59d6fea9@krr>

I appreciate the detail

One of those questions I knew the answer to but the details
were fuzzy. You know how that is!

Thank You
Kevin


> At 05:18 PM 11/20/2001 -0800, you wrote:
> >Is there any difference in size of an image at 8 x 6
> >1024 x 768 etc...
> >
> >My image measures 200 x 200. will it still measure
> >200 x 200 in all browsers regardless of the users
> >resolution?
>
> Yes, a 200 x 200 pixel image will be 200 x 200 pixels regardless of screen
> resolution and screen size.  However, a 200 x 200 image will look bigger
at
> 600 x 800 resolution than it will at 1024 x 768 because it will take up a
> larger percentage of the screen.
>
> 200 pixels is 33% of the screen width at 600 x 800.  At 1024 x 800, 200
> pixels is only 20% of the screen, so it seems a lot smaller.

> Well that depends on what you mean by "measure."
>
> Your image is 200 pixels (px) by 200px.
> At a screen resolution of 800px x 600px, your image will be 200px x 200
px.
> On a 17" monitor, that image will be about 3.2" x 3.2".
>
> At a screen resolution of 1024px x 768px, your image will be 200px x
200px.
> On a 17" monitor, that image will now be about 2.5" x 2.5". So it will be
> smaller (in inches), but the same size (in pixels).
>
> Wade






From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Wed Nov 21 14:29:24 2001
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Wed Nov 21 14:29:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: thelist digest, Vol 1 #1802 - 23 msgs
In-Reply-To: <20011120062348.944BA8B7@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: 

Erika-

I found that the Sony DSC-S75 is a great camera for the money, at around
$600.  Get yourself a 32mb flash card and you can take extremely high-res
photos all day long (119 if I remember correctly at 1600x1200).  Good luck!

-Chris



Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:  [thelist] digital camera


My department has said they are willing to buy a digital camera for
me to use at work.  It needs to be a good value though.

What I need to do is take good pictures (mostly around campus) for
the web. I need USB.  I need to be able to take indoors shots without
having to use flash.  I want to be able to set it to take black &
white.  I want zoom.  Maybe I want other stuff but I don't know
enough to say.

Basically, I would use the camera to make photos indoors (portraits &
objects) and outdoors (buildings, people, vegetation) on campus.  I'd
then edit them for the web site.  They would not be used for print.





From joshua at alphashop.net  Wed Nov 21 14:36:15 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Wed Nov 21 14:36:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Need a prewritten policy?
Message-ID: <013701c172cd$76443c10$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>


If you need a precanned policy for most anything IT related, such as DMZ Lab
Security, Automatically Forwarded Email, or Anti-Virus, check out:

http://www.sans.org/newlook/resources/policies/policies.htm


-joshua




From IanOrnstein at NC.SLR.com  Wed Nov 21 14:45:47 2001
From: IanOrnstein at NC.SLR.com (Ornstein, Ian)
Date: Wed Nov 21 14:45:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
Message-ID: <313308805876D511BB8B00D0B7B961F53CC4AC@excnc4.nc.slr.com>

Yes, here is a demo:
http://webfx.eae.net/

Ian Ornstein - Programmer and Web Developer
IBM Global Services, Global AMS Delivery
(704) 509-8022 


-----Original Message-----
From: Salvatore Palmisano [mailto:spalmisano at usashs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 3:13 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text


Is it possible with HTML or CSS to rotate text as its displayed in the
browser?  Or is this something better done with a graphic?
Id like to rotate a specifc line of text 90 degrees counter clockwise so
that the first letter of the first word is at the 'bottom' of a table cell.

Thanks.

--Salvatore

Current WinAmp Song:
Aquaplex Meets Junk Project - Brightness (Tag`s Trance Trip - A Progressive
J




From cvos at netpaths.net  Wed Nov 21 15:00:28 2001
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Wed Nov 21 15:00:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript confirm - oops
Message-ID: <3BFC15EB.8915C9C5@netpaths.net>

I sent the wrong URL - my apologies,,,


http://www.afreedish.com/promotions/starbandfaq.html

im having a little discrepancy with a script.  It returns a confirm
popup window, but clicking on either cancel or ok allows the user to
continue, not something i want to have happen.  Clicking cancel should
simply keep the user in the same page.



thanks,

--


Cayley Vos, Principal

360.714.8395 office
360.223.7799 cell

http://NetPaths.net
____________________________________________
web site design  |  programming  |  search engine marketing





From paul at thereformist.com  Wed Nov 21 15:00:52 2001
From: paul at thereformist.com (Paul Peterson)
Date: Wed Nov 21 15:00:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site check - reprocessed.org
In-Reply-To: <20011121181001-r01010800-a77619cd-0910-0108@10.0.0.15>
Message-ID: 

Beautiful site! I really appreciate your use of type and colors.

I'm on IE5/Mac at work, and don't have much time to browse, but what I see
looks pretty good. A couple quick things...

- You should include a link to your main page from the blog (at least, I
didn't see one), instead of making the user click back. Like the ones at the
top of your Articles & Photography pages.

- I had difficulties with the "Assorted gumpf" links in particular.
Sometimes clicking them would not display anything, sometimes I would get a
funky zig-zag outline appearing across the page (background image?), so you
might want to check into that.

BTW, I look forward to digging into your articles when I get home,
especially the ones with a spiritual slant.

Nice work!
Paul





From sskulic at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 21 15:04:21 2001
From: sskulic at yahoo.com (Sasa Kulic)
Date: Wed Nov 21 15:04:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] german web terminology
In-Reply-To: <20011121161021.68879.qmail@web9807.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20011121210421.49108.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>

> i know there are some germans on this list.  i need
> your help.  you can reply in german / off-list.
> 

Well I am not german but might shed some light on
this.

> i'm having trouble with german web terminology.  i'm
> beginning to suspect that 'Domain' refers to a whole
> website rather than a domain name.  

I don't think that is the case. 

>and what on earth is 'KonnektivitaetsKoordination
(KK)'?  

That means, during the domain transfer your web site
will be accessible (correct me if I am wrong)

> could someone tell me what domain name management is
> called in german?


> vielen dank
> tschuess
> iris
 
Bitte ;-)



=====
-------------------------------------
Sasa Kulic
http://www.sashadesign.com/
http://www.cluedesign.com/
-------------------------------------

_______________________________________________________
Build your own website in minutes and for free at http://ca.geocities.com



From allie at pajunas.com  Wed Nov 21 15:09:53 2001
From: allie at pajunas.com (Allie Micka)
Date: Wed Nov 21 15:09:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site check - reprocessed.org
In-Reply-To: <20011121200726-r01010800-8a371afe-0921-0108@10.0.0.15>
References:  <20011121200726-r01010800-8a371afe-0921-0108@10.0.0.15>
Message-ID: <20011121210221.GA21551@pajunas.com>

> As far as the former is concerned, I'm aware of it and am thinking about
> implementing a cookie-based system which remembers which part of the
> front page you were looking at when you left. I'm not sure howw
> irritated people are by the resetting of the page.

Personally, I found it very irritating.  I have virtually NO short-term
memory, and found it frustrating when I clicked twice to get to a
section, found several items interesting, followed one of the links and
then was faced with the prospect of having to retrace my steps to get
back to the other interesting links.  I found it distracting from the
goal of reading your site's information.

> If you mean that there's no navigation visible in the main body of the
> site then since:
>  
> > I'm using ie 5.5 on a pc.
> 
> There's not much I can say other than, there's breadcrumb navigation at
> the bottom of the page, but if you were to use Netscape 6.1/6.2 or a
> recent (0.8.1+) build of Mozilla you'll have a significantly different
> experience...

I'm not trying to start some kind of holy war and I am sure this topic
has been addressed frequently on the list; but what is the point of
developing a site that very few people can enjoy?  I did a quick check
of some of the more high volume sites I run, and found that about 5% use
ie 6 and there were NO visits from Mozilla or Netscape 6.

Granted, browser statistics are heavily dependent on the site's purpose
and audience.  If the site were all about what Netscape 6 can do it's
great.  If the site is a message to yourself that you can use css 2 to
present information then you can guarantee that the intended audience
will have the correct browser.

But this site appears to be intended for friends and prospective employers.  
In that case it may make sense to find a way of degrading appropriately
so that more people can see what you're capable of.  As it is, only a
few will understand your capabilities and the rest will just wonder why you
don't know how to create usable navigation.  If you want to show off
something really cool and cutting edge, perhaps you can have it be
another choice or a separate portion so you have a chance to disclaim
it.

I don't want this to come off as feisty or rude.  There's just way too
much bad air in the internet for that.  What I said about the
responsiveness and coolness before still stands.  I also think that your
breadcrumbs on the bottom of the page are helpful to this process, and
maybe a lot of trouble can be averted by simply moving them to the top.

Thanks a lot,
Allie Micka 
pajunas interactive, inc.
http://pajunas.com






From spalmisano at usashs.com  Wed Nov 21 15:20:02 2001
From: spalmisano at usashs.com (Salvatore Palmisano)
Date: Wed Nov 21 15:20:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
In-Reply-To: <313308805876D511BB8B00D0B7B961F53CC4AC@excnc4.nc.slr.com>
Message-ID: <001601c172d2$5276caa0$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>

Just what I needed, thank you.
Awesome site, by the way...

--Salvatore

Current WinAmp Song:
mixed by angry dee (D I G I T A L L Y - I M P O R T E D - Hard House, Tech
Ho

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Ornstein, Ian
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 3:44 PM
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: RE: [thelist] Vertical Text


Yes, here is a demo:
http://webfx.eae.net/

Ian Ornstein - Programmer and Web Developer
IBM Global Services, Global AMS Delivery
(704) 509-8022




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Wed Nov 21 15:24:09 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Wed Nov 21 15:24:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript confirm - oops
In-Reply-To: <3BFC15EB.8915C9C5@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: 

cayley,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Cayley Vos
>
> http://www.afreedish.com/promotions/starbandfaq.html
>
> im having a little discrepancy with a script.  It
> returns a confirm popup window, but clicking on either
> cancel or ok allows the user to continue, not something
> i want to have happen.  Clicking cancel should simply
> keep the user in the same page.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

your tos() function isn't returning the results of the confirm() dialog to
the onsubmit event handler.  you need to preface it with the return
statement.

function tos()
{
  return confirm(message);
}

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From r937 at interlog.com  Wed Nov 21 15:31:11 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Wed Nov 21 15:31:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
Message-ID: <01c172d3$c9c855a0$184f149a@rudy>

>Yes, here is a demo:
>http://webfx.eae.net/

huh?  don't see no vertical text on that page

salvatore, i don't think you can do it with html or css

here's a post on the w3c discussion list which talked about it but i don't
think it ever got implemented, you can run a search on the w3 site and it
comes up empty as far as "rotate" or "orient" is concerned, at least for
text (lots of SVG reverences, though) --

  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/1999Jul/0007.html

here's a page that talks about some IE-only feature, so my advice is to
stay well away from that unless you are on a strictly homogenous IE
intranet --

  http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/7685/fid/128

another method is to use an image where the text is in the image, but you
didn't hear me say that


if you're thinking of using vertical text as a column header on a table of
data, because you want to make the column skinnier, why not just name your
column headers A, B, C, et cetera, and put a legend under the table -- for
example,

   

   
TeamABC

   
Chi7-2201-1392-1

   
GB 6-3208-1403-2

   
Min4-5183-2293-2

   
TB 4-5183-1633-3

   
Det0-9165-2620-3

   


   
A = overall won-lost record
    
B = points for-against
    
C = record within division




rudy








From spalmisano at usashs.com  Wed Nov 21 15:37:33 2001
From: spalmisano at usashs.com (Salvatore Palmisano)
Date: Wed Nov 21 15:37:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
In-Reply-To: <01c172d3$c9c855a0$184f149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <001b01c172d4$c52787e0$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>

Check the right hand side of the screen ("Page maintained by.....")
FWIW I looked for about 10 minutes before I saw it myself.

--Sal

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of rudy
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 4:31 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Vertical Text

huh?  don't see no vertical text on that page

salvatore, i don't think you can do it with html or css

here's a post on the w3c discussion list which talked about it but i don't
think it ever got implemented, you can run a search on the w3 site and it
comes up empty as far as "rotate" or "orient" is concerned, at least for
text (lots of SVG reverences, though) --



From chrisg at gsnet.com  Wed Nov 21 15:45:48 2001
From: chrisg at gsnet.com (Chris George)
Date: Wed Nov 21 15:45:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
In-Reply-To: <001b01c172d4$c52787e0$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>
Message-ID: 

It must not work in Mac IE 5 - the "Page maintained..." verbiage is at the
bottom of the page, all boring and right-side-up.

on 11/21/2001 2:37 PM, Salvatore Palmisano at spalmisano at usashs.com wrote:

> Check the right hand side of the screen ("Page maintained by.....")
> FWIW I looked for about 10 minutes before I saw it myself.




From r937 at interlog.com  Wed Nov 21 15:52:32 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Wed Nov 21 15:52:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
Message-ID: <01c172d6$9f31e6a0$184f149a@rudy>

>>  http://webfx.eae.net/

> Check the right hand side of the screen ("Page maintained by.....")
 > FWIW I looked for about 10 minutes before I saw it myself.

nope, nada, there's no vertical text there

checked in win ie5 and netscape 6

must be some activex or java thing

sorry, that's not cross-browser enough for my liking...


rudy




From spalmisano at usashs.com  Wed Nov 21 15:58:07 2001
From: spalmisano at usashs.com (Salvatore Palmisano)
Date: Wed Nov 21 15:58:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
Message-ID: <002401c172d7$a4e01ad0$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>

I was able to get this looking as expected on the screen, but when printed
it goes funky.
Here's the example:

http://www.palmisanonet.com/test.asp

On the screen it looks as it should, with the first letter of the first word
at the bottom of the cell, and the bgcolor is black.
Do a print preview and you'll see a completely different format...The text
is rotated 180 degrees and the bgcolor is omitted.
(I did set the css reference to "all").

Any idea what I did wrong?

--Salvatore

Current WinAmp Song:
mixed by angry dee (D I G I T A L L Y - I M P O R T E D - Hard House, Tech
Ho

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of rudy
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 4:31 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Vertical Text

huh?  don't see no vertical text on that page

salvatore, i don't think you can do it with html or css

here's a post on the w3c discussion list which talked about it but i don't
think it ever got implemented, you can run a search on the w3 site and it
comes up empty as far as "rotate" or "orient" is concerned, at least for
text (lots of SVG reverences, though) --




From fox at digifox.org  Wed Nov 21 16:00:14 2001
From: fox at digifox.org (.fox)
Date: Wed Nov 21 16:00:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
References: <01c172d3$c9c855a0$184f149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <002301c172d8$571ff8a0$19927018@pr1.on.wave.home.com>

I'm seeing it just fine in ie5.5 (pc), and it tucks itself away at the
bottom very nicely in Netscape6.2 (pc).

Limited in usability, but sexy nonetheless.

..
Jennifer
http://digifox.org
http://pffft.net


----- Original Message -----
From: rudy 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Vertical Text


>Yes, here is a demo:
>http://webfx.eae.net/

huh?  don't see no vertical text on that page

salvatore, i don't think you can do it with html or css

here's a post on the w3c discussion list which talked about it but i don't
think it ever got implemented, you can run a search on the w3 site and it
comes up empty as far as "rotate" or "orient" is concerned, at least for
text (lots of SVG reverences, though) --

  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/1999Jul/0007.html

here's a page that talks about some IE-only feature, so my advice is to
stay well away from that unless you are on a strictly homogenous IE
intranet --

  http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/7685/fid/128

another method is to use an image where the text is in the image, but you
didn't hear me say that


if you're thinking of using vertical text as a column header on a table of
data, because you want to make the column skinnier, why not just name your
column headers A, B, C, et cetera, and put a legend under the table -- for
example,

   

   
TeamABC

   
Chi7-2201-1392-1

   
GB 6-3208-1403-2

   
Min4-5183-2293-2

   
TB 4-5183-1633-3

   
Det0-9165-2620-3

   


   
A = overall won-lost record
    
B = points for-against
    
C = record within division




rudy






---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From spalmisano at usashs.com  Wed Nov 21 16:02:28 2001
From: spalmisano at usashs.com (Salvatore Palmisano)
Date: Wed Nov 21 16:02:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
In-Reply-To: <01c172d6$9f31e6a0$184f149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <002501c172d8$40d41db0$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>

Win2000 Pro and IE 6 here....someone really should develop a set of
standards, eh? 

--Sal

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of rudy
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 4:51 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Vertical Text


nope, nada, there's no vertical text there

checked in win ie5 and netscape 6

must be some activex or java thing

sorry, that's not cross-browser enough for my liking...


rudy




From gnarly at punkass.com  Wed Nov 21 16:08:37 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Wed Nov 21 16:08:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
References: <002401c172d7$a4e01ad0$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>
Message-ID: <009c01c172d9$72058a80$0100a8c0@olly>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Salvatore Palmisano" 
Subject: RE: [thelist] Vertical Text


> I was able to get this looking as expected on the screen, but when printed
> it goes funky.
> Here's the example:
>
> http://www.palmisanonet.com/test.asp

Its horizontal in Moz 0.9.5.

Olly
- www.gnarly-bitches.co.uk -






From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Wed Nov 21 16:19:22 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Wed Nov 21 16:19:22 2001
Subject: Outlook annoyances (was: RE: [thelist] The Tao of asking question
	s on thelist)
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD336@arnold.bedrock.com>

+| me on this front include people not wrapping 
+| their text

On this note,

It appears that Outlook 2k mangles my plain text emails to the list (and I
presume anyone who gets plain text from me). I have looked in the mail
formatting options, but can't find where it allows me to hack of a line at,
say, 60 characters.

Can anyone tell me how to get Outlook 2k to wrap a line after 60 characters?

Let's see... a tip would help that one go down.


Like to use ColdFusion to make a delicious database app?

How easy is it for me to enter into the First Name box on your delectable
and intuitive form: "hax0r d00d!!!', 'hahaha'); IF EXIST (tblUsers) DELETE
FROM tblUsers; IF EXIST (tblUser) DELETE FROM tblUser; IF EXIST (Users)
DELETE FROM Users; IF EXIST (User) DELETE FROM User; SELECT
UCASE('fried!!!!!!!'"?

If you have a CFQUERY updating your tables, you probably have a statement
like this one:

INSERT INTO 	tblUser
(			First_Name
,			Last_Name
)
VALUES
(			'#txtFirstName#'
,			'#txtLastName#'
)

which, when expanded, looks like this:

INSERT INTO	tblUser
(			First_Name
,			Last_Name
)
VALUES
(			'hax0r d00d!!!', 'hahaha'); IF EXIST (tblUsers)
DELETE FROM tblUsers; IF EXIST (tblUser) DELETE FROM tblUser; IF EXIST
(Users) DELETE FROM Users; IF EXIST (User) DELETE FROM User; SELECT
UCASE('fried!!!!!!!''
,			'all your data are not belong to you!!!!'
)

Its only a matter of time before Johnny Cracker finds out what will work...
and then, good bye data.

There are a couple of defenses:
1) Scrub your client form data on the server. Look for the SQL keywords that
can do nasty things: INSERT, UPDATE, DELETE and TRUNCATE and ALTER TABLE.
This could also go for javascipt, since people could put unsavory things in
a comment field which may be parsed by the browser. Stripping out
 tags from input is also a noteworthy step.

2) Use stored procedures. Then you can only pass parameters of a particular
type. There is no known way to get a parameter value to do nasty things.
Even MS Access can use SPs.
(http://www.sys-con.com/coldfusion/archives/0105/arehart/index.html)

3) Use the Val() function on input text which is to be a number. It returns
a 0 when the text doesn't parse to a number.

You think this is all? You just got started with the worst. Even if you
don't host your own server, there are things you could do to protect your
self and your ISP. Check out

http://www.katungroup.com/coldfusionsecurity.htm

for more satisfying details.




From lasso at treefroginteractive.com  Wed Nov 21 16:20:12 2001
From: lasso at treefroginteractive.com (Sean Stephens)
Date: Wed Nov 21 16:20:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
In-Reply-To: <009c01c172d9$72058a80$0100a8c0@olly>
Message-ID: 

webfx.eae.net

I went to the site with OS9/IE5 and the site was barren and I saw nothing
but undefined variables and the like.

After reading the thread, I went back, and lo and behold, a Nav Bar!!

Nice effects, but if the don't work in the bulk of browsers, you lose the
eyeball.

Sean




From spalmisano at usashs.com  Wed Nov 21 16:28:05 2001
From: spalmisano at usashs.com (Salvatore Palmisano)
Date: Wed Nov 21 16:28:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
In-Reply-To: <009c01c172d9$72058a80$0100a8c0@olly>
Message-ID: <002801c172db$d4ec1310$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>

Yeah it looks ok on the screen, but in print the first letter of the first
word is on top, when I want it on bottom.
And I cant seem to get the background color to print along with it (other
than by changing the 'print bg colors' setting in IE).

It prints ok with M 0.9.5?

--Sal

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Olly Hodgson
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:11 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Vertical Text


----- Original Message -----
From: "Salvatore Palmisano" 
Subject: RE: [thelist] Vertical Text

Its horizontal in Moz 0.9.5.

Olly
- www.gnarly-bitches.co.uk -





From gturner at ync.net  Wed Nov 21 16:29:14 2001
From: gturner at ync.net (Glenn Turner)
Date: Wed Nov 21 16:29:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
In-Reply-To: <009c01c172d9$72058a80$0100a8c0@olly>
References: <002401c172d7$a4e01ad0$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011121161431.02e44550@pop31.ync.net>

At 10:11 PM 11/21/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Salvatore Palmisano" 
>Subject: RE: [thelist] Vertical Text
>
> > I was able to get this looking as expected on the screen, but when printed
> > it goes funky.
> > Here's the example:
> >
> > http://www.palmisanonet.com/test.asp
>
>Its horizontal in Moz 0.9.5.

He's setting it vertically using writing-mode: tb-rl; which can currently 
only be read by IE 5.5+, and using javascript to see if your browser can 
handle it ... i believe writing-mode is part of the proposed specs for css3 
[someone please correct me if i'm wrong :) ].

http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-text/#PrimaryTextAdvanceDirection

hth,

-glenn

-----------------------------------
:alias: - http://peccaui.com/alias
scenedeleted - http://scenedeleted.com




From evolt at spinhead.com  Wed Nov 21 16:33:17 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Wed Nov 21 16:33:17 2001
Subject: Outlook annoyances (was: RE: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions on thelist)
References: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD336@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <009301c172dc$78665af0$080a000a@HEISENBERG>

I'll try to go check OL2K, but in XP, it's 'Tools | Options | Mail Format |
Internet Format' and there's a text box for line width. Should be a similar
location on 2K

spinhead


----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 2:24 PM
Subject: Outlook annoyances (was: RE: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions
on thelist)


> +| me on this front include people not wrapping
> +| their text
>
> On this note,
>
> It appears that Outlook 2k mangles my plain text emails to the list (and I
> presume anyone who gets plain text from me). I have looked in the mail
> formatting options, but can't find where it allows me to hack of a line
at,
> say, 60 characters.
>
> Can anyone tell me how to get Outlook 2k to wrap a line after 60
characters?
> [ . . . ]




From robin at rhastings.net  Wed Nov 21 16:34:01 2001
From: robin at rhastings.net (Robin Hastings)
Date: Wed Nov 21 16:34:01 2001
Subject: Outlook annoyances (was: RE: [thelist] The Tao of asking questions on thelist)
In-Reply-To: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD336@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: 

>On this note,
>
>It appears that Outlook 2k mangles my plain text emails to the list (and I
>presume anyone who gets plain text from me). I have looked in the mail
>formatting options, but can't find where it allows me to hack of a line at,
>say, 60 characters.
>
>Can anyone tell me how to get Outlook 2k to wrap a line after 60 characters?

Try Tools --> Options --> Mail Format --> Settings, down at the bottom of the
settings box
is the option you want!

Robin Hastings
Webmistress - InterTec Designs
robin at intertecdesigns.com
http://www.intertecdesigns.com







From amanda at gawow.com  Wed Nov 21 16:39:35 2001
From: amanda at gawow.com (A. Erickson)
Date: Wed Nov 21 16:39:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
In-Reply-To: <009c01c172d9$72058a80$0100a8c0@olly>
Message-ID: <000001c172dd$7f105440$6ec963d8@75ctt01>

I feel like someone has to say this so I will: vertical text is annoying
and unreadable on the web. If you want your text to be functional and
give people information then do it horizontal, baby.

- amanda

___________________________________
amanda at gawow.com + http://gawow.com 




From paul at wishlist.com.au  Wed Nov 21 16:40:45 2001
From: paul at wishlist.com.au (Paul Cowan)
Date: Wed Nov 21 16:40:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Monitor
Message-ID: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB71CFD215@coen.wishlist.com.au>

> > 2 monitor setups are pretty keen too - one with browser and one with
> > whatever tool you're using to develop.
> 
> Plus 1 from me.

Make that plus 2 then. I find a very useful setup to be (for me, obviously):

Monitor 1 (good monitor): IE/Mozilla, SQL Server Manager, Terminal Clients,
etc.

Monitor 2 (crap monitor - only 256 colours in my case): Outlook and Textpad
(all code editing done in Textpad).

Of course, the monitor itself isn't that crappy, it's the video card. Well
worth it, anyway, and leads me to a (very long):


Working for a dot-com or other tech company that has shed staff? When people
leave, assuming your company doesn't lease their PC equipment, steal as many
monitors as you can. Choose the biggest, sharpest ones you can, before
anyone else does. Sony monitors, say, will be snapped up quickly, so get in
fast.

Get two monitors (or more, if you're that way inclined), and then try and
find some video card setups that will let you do twin-monitor work.
Dual-head cards like the Matrox ones are ideal, but the company probably
won't have any, and you might have a hard time convincing them to buy you
one. Instead, assuming you have an AGP card, you should be able to slot a
PCI card in as well. But -- be very careful with the card. PCI cards may
need to be the "primary" card in your BIOS. Some BIOSes will not support
this configuration, in which case you might be screwed. Even more
importantly, a lot of REALLY "el cheapo" cards, which are a dime a dozen,
won't work in a multi-monitor setup: I had terrible troubles with s3
virge-type cards. In the end I got a $A8 ($US4) Cirrus Logic card at a swap
meet -- but it can only do 256 colours. Fine for email and TextPad though.

Put the PCI card in PCI slot number 1 (closest to CPU, usually). Set up the
BIOS right, boot Windows, and choose "extend my desktop onto this monitor"
(or equivalent). Magnifique!

Finally, be sure to check out http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon/ which
has an excellent searchable database of compatible configurations that
others have tried, FAQs, etc.

Trust me, it's all worth it, for the envious looks from your co-workers
alone.




From ia at timsalam.com  Wed Nov 21 16:50:26 2001
From: ia at timsalam.com (Tim Salam)
Date: Wed Nov 21 16:50:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] Java/J++, general programming question
Message-ID: <029901c172de$97526470$1264a8c0@bwa2>

(apologies for cross-posts to those that recieve this twice!)
A friend of mine just sent me the following question:

"Hey! If possible, could you find out for me if I
should be learning visual j++, or something else. My
understanding (I think) is that visual j++ is just a
compiler, but I want to make sure before I invest to
much time in learning one or the other. Thanks, and
I'll talk to you soon."

Here's some background information.  He is extremely intelligent and savvy
with learning new things very quickly.  I've gotten him interested in
programming recently and he's soaking up untold amounts of info from the
Internet.  I told him a week ago that Java would be a good language to learn
since it pays high and is used a great deal.

I know almost NOTHING about this stuff (it's outside my area of expertise)
but want to give him the best info possible.  Please send answers my way (or
to the list if it's not common knowledge) since I have no clue! :)

Thanks much in advance...

tim salam
information architect
essemble.com





From isaac at members.evolt.org  Wed Nov 21 16:51:38 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Wed Nov 21 16:51:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Monitor
In-Reply-To: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB71CFD215@coen.wishlist.com.au>
Message-ID: 

> > > 2 monitor setups are pretty keen too - one with browser and one with
> > > whatever tool you're using to develop.
> >
> > Plus 1 from me.
>
> Make that plus 2 then. I find a very useful setup to be (for me,
> obviously):


For those interested in dual-monitor setups, you might like to read this:

  A wonderful world of multiple monitors
  http://evolt.org/article/thelist/12/1714/index.html


I don't know how anyone can handle a single monitor setup. We run 19/17 at
work, and I have 21/15 at home.


isaac

--------------------------------------------------------------
triple zero digital | upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067
(08)83320545 | www.triplezero.com.au | isaac at triplezero.com.au




From ghunt at hds.ca  Wed Nov 21 16:53:31 2001
From: ghunt at hds.ca (Glenn Hunt)
Date: Wed Nov 21 16:53:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Monitor
In-Reply-To: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB71CFD215@coen.wishlist.com.au>
Message-ID: <001101c172df$55506490$0300a8c0@glenn>

Can't stress enough the usefullness of multiple monitors. I run two
Viewsonic Pro 19" monitors from a Matrox G400 Max, soon to be an ATI
Radeon 8500.

Excellent tip - do whatever you can to get more than one monitor.

Glenn Hunt
ghunt at hds.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Paul Cowan
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:40 PM
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: RE: [thelist] Monitor



> > 2 monitor setups are pretty keen too - one with browser and one with

> > whatever tool you're using to develop.
> 
> Plus 1 from me.

Make that plus 2 then. I find a very useful setup to be (for me,
obviously):

Monitor 1 (good monitor): IE/Mozilla, SQL Server Manager, Terminal
Clients, etc.

Monitor 2 (crap monitor - only 256 colours in my case): Outlook and
Textpad (all code editing done in Textpad).

Of course, the monitor itself isn't that crappy, it's the video card.
Well worth it, anyway, and leads me to a (very long):


Working for a dot-com or other tech company that has shed staff? When
people leave, assuming your company doesn't lease their PC equipment,
steal as many monitors as you can. Choose the biggest, sharpest ones you
can, before anyone else does. Sony monitors, say, will be snapped up
quickly, so get in fast.

Get two monitors (or more, if you're that way inclined), and then try
and find some video card setups that will let you do twin-monitor work.
Dual-head cards like the Matrox ones are ideal, but the company probably
won't have any, and you might have a hard time convincing them to buy
you one. Instead, assuming you have an AGP card, you should be able to
slot a PCI card in as well. But -- be very careful with the card. PCI
cards may need to be the "primary" card in your BIOS. Some BIOSes will
not support this configuration, in which case you might be screwed. Even
more importantly, a lot of REALLY "el cheapo" cards, which are a dime a
dozen, won't work in a multi-monitor setup: I had terrible troubles with
s3 virge-type cards. In the end I got a $A8 ($US4) Cirrus Logic card at
a swap meet -- but it can only do 256 colours. Fine for email and
TextPad though.

Put the PCI card in PCI slot number 1 (closest to CPU, usually). Set up
the BIOS right, boot Windows, and choose "extend my desktop onto this
monitor" (or equivalent). Magnifique!

Finally, be sure to check out http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon/
which has an excellent searchable database of compatible configurations
that others have tried, FAQs, etc.

Trust me, it's all worth it, for the envious looks from your co-workers
alone. 

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 






From spalmisano at usashs.com  Wed Nov 21 16:55:11 2001
From: spalmisano at usashs.com (Salvatore Palmisano)
Date: Wed Nov 21 16:55:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
In-Reply-To: <000001c172dd$7f105440$6ec963d8@75ctt01>
Message-ID: <002f01c172df$9e5c7f20$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>

I agree completely Amanda; I should have been more clear about my
intentions.
A portion of our site is for employees only, and many of them have asked for
the ability to print company ID cards right from the web site.  Part of
those ID cards have vertical text on them, and Im working on reproducing the
card for printing.
Given all of the browser/printer differences, I'll probably just come up
with a PDF file for them.

--Sal

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of A. Erickson
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:40 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Vertical Text


I feel like someone has to say this so I will: vertical text is annoying
and unreadable on the web. If you want your text to be functional and
give people information then do it horizontal, baby.

- amanda

___________________________________
amanda at gawow.com + http://gawow.com




From amanda at gawow.com  Wed Nov 21 17:10:44 2001
From: amanda at gawow.com (A. Erickson)
Date: Wed Nov 21 17:10:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
In-Reply-To: <002f01c172df$9e5c7f20$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>
Message-ID: <000001c172e1$d957c2e0$6ec963d8@75ctt01>

> I agree completely Amanda; I should have been more clear 
> about my intentions. A portion of our site is for employees 
> only, and many of them have asked for the ability to print 
> company ID cards right from the web site.  Part of those ID 
> cards have vertical text on them, and Im working on 
> reproducing the card for printing. Given all of the 
> browser/printer differences, I'll probably just come up with 
> a PDF file for them.

Ah. Thank you for the clarification, I'll sleep easier tonight. ;) And,
for your purposes, a PDF with editable fields would probably be best.

Good luck!

- amanda 




From alastair at cubeit.co.uk  Wed Nov 21 17:12:32 2001
From: alastair at cubeit.co.uk (Alastair Murdoch)
Date: Wed Nov 21 17:12:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] asp to cd compiler
In-Reply-To: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB71CFD215@coen.wishlist.com.au>
Message-ID: 

found this today. www.octopod.net/sitecomp/trial.htm

takes an asp site and packages it up into an executable.  I've just tried it
on a moderate sized access/asp site and it seems to work flawlessly, the
site functions exactly as it does on the web, all you appear to need is the
compiled executable and a copy of the database.

This question used to crop up quite regularly when I frequented the ultradev
newsgroup, is it worth including in the proposed FQA??

cheers

alastair




From v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu  Wed Nov 21 17:13:26 2001
From: v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu (Minh Lee Goon)
Date: Wed Nov 21 17:13:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript variable into CF variable
References: <3BF96749.112B64F@sdsumus.sdstate.edu> <0b1201c1713b$5cfd2e30$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <3BF97068.B8F01D23@sdsumus.sdstate.edu> <0b2401c1713d$e2cf6170$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <3BFC019E.3060903@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3BFC3596.36512C0D@sdsumus.sdstate.edu>

Right now, CF5 with Apache 1.3.12, I think.

"Daniel J. Cody" wrote:
> 
> Minh - what version of Apache and CF are you using?
>



From evolt at spinhead.com  Wed Nov 21 17:44:57 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Wed Nov 21 17:44:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
References: <000001c172dd$7f105440$6ec963d8@75ctt01>
Message-ID: <001901c172e6$789a30a0$080a000a@HEISENBERG>

Once we get everyone upgraded in-house (I set the browser standard for
intranet access) I'll be experimenting with vertical text as a graphical
element. Is that okay, amanda?

spinhead
(Finally got around to looking at your site - beautiful use of side
scrolling. Just goes to show that breaking the rules is very cool, when you
do it right)

----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Erickson" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Vertical Text


> I feel like someone has to say this so I will: vertical text is annoying
> and unreadable on the web. If you want your text to be functional and
> give people information then do it horizontal, baby.
>
> - amanda
>
> ___________________________________
> amanda at gawow.com + http://gawow.com
>
>




From list-matt at reprocessed.org  Wed Nov 21 17:45:52 2001
From: list-matt at reprocessed.org (Matt Patterson)
Date: Wed Nov 21 17:45:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site check - reprocessed.org
In-Reply-To: <20011121210221.GA21551@pajunas.com>
Message-ID: <20011121234201-r01010800-ad59ae5f-0921-0108@10.0.0.15>

On 21/11/01 at 3:02 pm, allie at pajunas.com (Allie Micka) wrote:

> Personally, I found it very irritating.  I have virtually NO
> short-term memory, and found it frustrating when I clicked twice to
> get to a section, found several items interesting, followed one of the
> links and then was faced with the prospect of having to retrace my
> steps to get back to the other interesting links.  I found it
> distracting from the goal of reading your site's information.

This seems to be the consensus, so I'll look into implementing the
cookie thing ASAP. Some other points related to the way that
leaving/re-entering and other clicking about can make it hard to make
what you think should happen happen have been duly noted and I'm going
to take a shot at solving those problems. So, thanks again for your
input.

> I'm not trying to start some kind of holy war and I am sure this topic
> has been addressed frequently on the list; but what is the point of
> developing a site that very few people can enjoy?  I did a quick check
> of some of the more high volume sites I run, and found that about 5%
> use ie 6 and there were NO visits from Mozilla or Netscape 6.

The point is that I'm trying to show what could be, not what is. It's an
idealised case, which is why I have an ideological disclaimer on the
front page... This isn't a commercial site, it's a personal site. In one
sense I don't have to worry about my 'audience' because I'm not selling
anything. That may come across as sounding callous, but it isn't. I'm
trying to do something that is, in some sense, ideologically pure. I'm
not holding it up as an example to copy _right now_, it's not a
statement about the state of design. It's a statement about maybe how
things could be, and the kinds of issues it's possible to address when
you consider these things.

> I don't want this to come off as feisty or rude.  There's just way too
> much bad air in the internet for that. 

You haven't. I like being asked to explain myself.

> What I said about the responsiveness and coolness before still stands.
> I also think that your breadcrumbs on the bottom of the page are
> helpful to this process, and maybe a lot of trouble can be averted by
> simply moving them to the top.

Like I said before, in IE 5.1/Mac, Opera, Netscape 6.1+ and Mozilla
0.8.1+ you'll have a very different experience. The breadcrumbs stay at
the top, the typographic detail level is much higher, and there are many
other subtle changes which are simply impossible to achieve using clean
markup and CSS 1. Even so, if you were to look at the site in Lynx you'd
find that you could get around, that things were what they appeared to
be and that nothing was in the wrong order or hidden from you. It sounds
horrid when it seems like I'm saying 'I don't care about your
experience', but what I'm trying to say is 'look at what you can do, and
look how easy it can be.' Having said all that, there are some changes I
could make which would allow IE PC users to get breadcrumbs at the top
and bottom, but I'll need to brush up on Tantek's box model hack. On the
other hand, you might find it worth your while to check it out in
Mozilla or Netscape 6, but then of course you might not. I hope that you
would find that it was worth it.

Thanks again

Matt


-- 
   Matt Patterson | Typographer
    | http://reprocessed.org/



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Wed Nov 21 17:51:06 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Wed Nov 21 17:51:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript variable into CF variable
In-Reply-To: <3BFC3596.36512C0D@sdsumus.sdstate.edu>
Message-ID: 

minh,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Minh Lee Goon
>
> Right now, CF5 with Apache 1.3.12, I think.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

you never answered my question about what you get back when you output the
entirety of the cgi scope.  the answer may very well be in there somewhere.

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From list-matt at reprocessed.org  Wed Nov 21 18:02:08 2001
From: list-matt at reprocessed.org (Matt Patterson)
Date: Wed Nov 21 18:02:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site check - reprocessed.org
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20011122000132-r01010800-20c5b3c6-0921-0108@10.0.0.15>

On 21/11/01 at 1:00 pm, paul at thereformist.com (Paul Peterson) wrote:

> Beautiful site! I really appreciate your use of type and colors.

Thanks very much :)

> - You should include a link to your main page from the blog (at least,
> I didn't see one), instead of making the user click back. Like the
> ones at the top of your Articles & Photography pages.

Doh, blogger template and site CSS have fallen out of step. I'll sort it
tomorrow morning.

> - I had difficulties with the "Assorted gumpf" links in particular.
> Sometimes clicking them would not display anything, sometimes I would
> get a funky zig-zag outline appearing across the page (background
> image?), so you might want to check into that.

No background images there - all live text! (ok, apart from the Home
logo in related sites...) The problem you're seeing is a bug in IE
5/Mac, I'm afraid - I'd forgotten about it, but I'll report it post
haste.

> BTW, I look forward to digging into your articles when I get home,
> especially the ones with a spiritual slant.

Again, thank you :)

Matt


-- 
   Matt Patterson | Typographer
    | http://reprocessed.org/



From gnarly at punkass.com  Wed Nov 21 18:53:04 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Wed Nov 21 18:53:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Monitor
References: <001101c172df$55506490$0300a8c0@glenn>
Message-ID: <005801c172ed$bad2fe50$0100a8c0@olly>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Hunt" 
Subject: RE: [thelist] Monitor


> Can't stress enough the usefullness of multiple monitors. I run two
> Viewsonic Pro 19" monitors from a Matrox G400 Max, soon to be an ATI
> Radeon 8500.
>
> Excellent tip - do whatever you can to get more than one monitor.

I have to agree - my previous employer did a lot of CBT applications which
used twin screens (you could have a picture on one screen, and an
explanation on the other, etc etc). During development, Photoshop benefitted
the most from the setup - Images on one side, all you palettes etc on the
other. Dreamweaver also benefits from a similar setup.

Olly
- www.gnarly-bitches.co.uk -






From lasso at treefroginteractive.com  Wed Nov 21 18:53:56 2001
From: lasso at treefroginteractive.com (Sean Stephens)
Date: Wed Nov 21 18:53:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <20011122000132-r01010800-20c5b3c6-0921-0108@10.0.0.15>
Message-ID: 

What are all the things I need to do to a Web site in order to make it
palatable to Search engines?

How do I go about getting into search engines without paying money?

Is there a quick and easy way?

Sean




From chris at fuzzylizard.com  Wed Nov 21 19:24:45 2001
From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Wed Nov 21 19:24:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Search Engines
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000901c172f4$9023da60$be82fea9@cr283847a>

I don't have any answer for you, however www.sitepoint.com have been
running a series of very good articles all about search engines that may
answer some of your questions.

/chris

-----Original Message-----
What are all the things I need to do to a Web site in order to make it
palatable to Search engines?

How do I go about getting into search engines without paying money?

Is there a quick and easy way?

Sean




From paul at thereformist.com  Wed Nov 21 19:28:27 2001
From: paul at thereformist.com (Paul Peterson)
Date: Wed Nov 21 19:28:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"
In-Reply-To: <20011121234556.56ECCBFD9@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <002901c172f5$001d51c0$88260a18@c1290587a>

Here's one for the polls...

What are your opinions on opening links in new windows? Do you use them? If
so, when do you feel is an appropriate/inappropriate instance? Do you add
warnings (e.g. "will open in a new window") or let the users figure it out
for themselves?

Personally, I add links to new windows if they are amid content that I want
the user to come back to immediately. If it is on a "Links" page or
something similar, I will have the link open in the same window, since the
user is apparently ready to leave the site. Lately, I have been adding more
warnings if I think users may get confused otherwise.

Looking forward to your thoughts.
Paul




From lindsay at redsquare.com.au  Wed Nov 21 19:40:09 2001
From: lindsay at redsquare.com.au (Lindsay Evans)
Date: Wed Nov 21 19:40:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"
In-Reply-To: <002901c172f5$001d51c0$88260a18@c1290587a>
Message-ID: 

> What are your opinions on opening links in new windows? Do you
> use them? If
> so, when do you feel is an appropriate/inappropriate instance? Do you add
> warnings (e.g. "will open in a new window") or let the users figure it out
> for themselves?

we usually open new windows only when the link is to another site, it is
usually part of the contract that the clients site sticks around when people
click a link to another site.

personally, i think it is better to give the user a choice, ie. separate
icons for new window/this window, but if new windows are what the client
wants, thats what the client gets.

--
 Lindsay Evans.
 Developer,
 Red Square Productions.

 vox: 8596.4000
 fax: 8596.4001
 web: www.redsquare.com.au




From amanda at gawow.com  Wed Nov 21 19:42:24 2001
From: amanda at gawow.com (A. Erickson)
Date: Wed Nov 21 19:42:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
In-Reply-To: <001901c172e6$789a30a0$080a000a@HEISENBERG>
Message-ID: <000001c172f7$08835d80$dfc563d8@75ctt01>

> Once we get everyone upgraded in-house (I set the browser 
> standard for intranet access) I'll be experimenting with 
> vertical text as a graphical element. Is that okay, amanda?

Hey now, I hear some serious sarcasm in there. 

Go ahead and experiment. But trust your audience as to whether they can
read it or even bother to try. Reading text onscreen is more intensive
than on the page. Making it vertical doesn't make it any easier. 

> spinhead
> (Finally got around to looking at your site - beautiful use 
> of side scrolling. Just goes to show that breaking the rules 
> is very cool, when you do it right)

Well, thanks. It's an experiment. Don't know if I'd recommend it to
anyone, though. There are a number of limitations in that format.

- amanda




From fox at digifox.org  Wed Nov 21 19:49:15 2001
From: fox at digifox.org (.fox)
Date: Wed Nov 21 19:49:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
References: <000001c172dd$7f105440$6ec963d8@75ctt01> <001901c172e6$789a30a0$080a000a@HEISENBERG>
Message-ID: <002301c172f8$5720ae60$19927018@pr1.on.wave.home.com>

I recently did a design for my personal site where I used a left vertical
nav.
Some people thought it very progressive, where most found it annoying and
confusing.

People threw "usability" at me, and I thew "personal site" back at them, but
I ended up changing it anyway. Nonetheless, I still think it could be used
VERY well on some sort of ultra-artsy site.

..
Jennifer
http://digifox.org
http://pffft.net


----- Original Message -----
From: spinhead 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Vertical Text


Once we get everyone upgraded in-house (I set the browser standard for
intranet access) I'll be experimenting with vertical text as a graphical
element. Is that okay, amanda?

spinhead
(Finally got around to looking at your site - beautiful use of side
scrolling. Just goes to show that breaking the rules is very cool, when you
do it right)

----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Erickson" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Vertical Text


> I feel like someone has to say this so I will: vertical text is annoying
> and unreadable on the web. If you want your text to be functional and
> give people information then do it horizontal, baby.
>
> - amanda
>
> ___________________________________
> amanda at gawow.com + http://gawow.com
>
>


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From fox at digifox.org  Wed Nov 21 19:57:21 2001
From: fox at digifox.org (.fox)
Date: Wed Nov 21 19:57:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"
References: <002901c172f5$001d51c0$88260a18@c1290587a>
Message-ID: <004b01c172f9$79d7e620$19927018@pr1.on.wave.home.com>

ohmygosh I HATE it when the author assumes I want a new window open. If I
want a new window open, I will right, or apple-click.

I find it rather jarring to have a window just open up on me.

There are a few sites that I visit regularly, and I've come to know their
target="_blank" tendancies, and I can understand the logic behind it, but
that doesn't make it any less annoying.

My job has pounded it into me that corporate sites = new window
I counteract that with personal sites = same window

..
Jennifer
http://digifox.org
http://pffft.net


----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Peterson 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 8:28 PM
Subject: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"


Here's one for the polls...

What are your opinions on opening links in new windows? Do you use them? If
so, when do you feel is an appropriate/inappropriate instance? Do you add
warnings (e.g. "will open in a new window") or let the users figure it out
for themselves?

Personally, I add links to new windows if they are amid content that I want
the user to come back to immediately. If it is on a "Links" page or
something similar, I will have the link open in the same window, since the
user is apparently ready to leave the site. Lately, I have been adding more
warnings if I think users may get confused otherwise.

Looking forward to your thoughts.
Paul


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From navin_dhanuka at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 21 20:05:24 2001
From: navin_dhanuka at yahoo.com (Navin Dhanuka)
Date: Wed Nov 21 20:05:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] ::Hi-Fi Fonts::
Message-ID: <000701c172f9$7fea76e0$1c00005a@redhat>

Hi,

Can any one direct me to a place from where I can download hi-fi fonts, like
the one used in the movie"The One".

Also fonts used by apple.com

Thanks in advance.

Navin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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From emailus at carbonchip.com  Wed Nov 21 20:05:41 2001
From: emailus at carbonchip.com (Carbon Chip)
Date: Wed Nov 21 20:05:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"
In-Reply-To: <004b01c172f9$79d7e620$19927018@pr1.on.wave.home.com>
Message-ID: 

generally, corporate external links want it, but *any* other type of sites
dont. my own personal hated1 is www.silicon.com - quite often they have
great content, but they open their OWN pages in new windows. after going
thru about ten pages, this can really hack the most ardent users. although
they are a reputable IT/info/gossip site, i just cant help feeling that
their senior *webmaster* has had an illustrious career in porn
somewhere.....

there is a misguided, hidden belief that as long as you can keep your own
company site open on a users desktop, even in the background, they'll keep
it there, and maybe, just maybe, buy something from you. abolute arse in the
majority of cases, but hey, who are we to argue with clients.

im sure we all *love* them...

banrett

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of .fox
Sent: 22 November 2001 02:01
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"


ohmygosh I HATE it when the author assumes I want a new window open. If I
want a new window open, I will right, or apple-click.

I find it rather jarring to have a window just open up on me.

There are a few sites that I visit regularly, and I've come to know their
target="_blank" tendancies, and I can understand the logic behind it, but
that doesn't make it any less annoying.

My job has pounded it into me that corporate sites = new window
I counteract that with personal sites = same window

..
Jennifer
http://digifox.org
http://pffft.net


----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Peterson 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 8:28 PM
Subject: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"


Here's one for the polls...

What are your opinions on opening links in new windows? Do you use them? If
so, when do you feel is an appropriate/inappropriate instance? Do you add
warnings (e.g. "will open in a new window") or let the users figure it out
for themselves?

Personally, I add links to new windows if they are amid content that I want
the user to come back to immediately. If it is on a "Links" page or
something similar, I will have the link open in the same window, since the
user is apparently ready to leave the site. Lately, I have been adding more
warnings if I think users may get confused otherwise.

Looking forward to your thoughts.
Paul


---------------------------------------
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---------------------------------------
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From gsd at mac.com  Wed Nov 21 20:37:17 2001
From: gsd at mac.com (george)
Date: Wed Nov 21 20:37:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Search Engines
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

I guess one thing would me metatags. you will want to optimize your page
titles for the keywords you want to hit.

http://selfpromotion.com/ is a great source of info and an easy way to
submit to tons of search engines and indexes.

george
http://cyklotron.com/
cyklotron: a gringo in medellin, colombia
PGP: 6564 E940 5A91 38A0 152D  D04F 92DF 2C24 9C49 9E9A

> From: Sean Stephens 
> 
> What are all the things I need to do to a Web site in order to make it
> palatable to Search engines?
> 
> How do I go about getting into search engines without paying money?
> 
> Is there a quick and easy way?




From evolt at webmediaconception.com  Wed Nov 21 21:46:03 2001
From: evolt at webmediaconception.com (Henning)
Date: Wed Nov 21 21:46:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] german web terminology
In-Reply-To: <20011121161021.68879.qmail@web9807.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011122022834.026975a0@pop.puretec.de>

Iris

At 08:10 21.11.01 -0800, you wrote:
>i know there are some germans on this list.  i need
>your help.  you can reply in german / off-list.
>
>i'm having trouble with german web terminology.  i'm
>beginning to suspect that 'Domain' refers to a whole
>website rather than a domain name.  and what on earth
>is 'KonnektivitaetsKoordination (KK)'?

KK: process of transferral of domain ownership.

http://faq.puretec.de/einfuehrung/providerwechsel/1.html

>background:
>i'm trying to find a german registrar to transfer a
>.de domain to that i already own but that was
>registered for my family through the original host for
>their site.  i'll be hosting their site on my reseller
>account from now on and need a german provider to
>handle the name server entries (don't seem to be able
>to transfer the domain to a non-german registrar).
>that's all.  don't want hosting, email, url
>re-direction or anything like that.

BTW, how did you manage to register a .de domain in the first place? AFAIK 
you need a German address to do so?

Though not meaning to discourage you, so far I haven't heard of a German 
ISP offering standalone DNS service.
Things seem to be a little different here ;-)

The German NIC is an association of German ISPs. Naturally they are 
interested in selling their products, i.e. hosting.

There is a fundamental difference in how the domain / hosting business is 
being run in Germany.
Unlike in any other country I know of (US, UK, CH) in Germany usually you 
don't a) register a domain, and b) find a hosting provider.

Most German ISPs really offer web space with domains attached, as it were.

O.k., in theory you can register directly with DENIC:

http://www.denic.de/DENICdb/domainreg/DENICdirect/index.en.html

Registering or transferring a domain with DENIC is EURO 116.00 each, though!

(DENIC really isn't interested in this kind of business though, but instead 
they officially point you to their member ISPs to provide you with hosting 
and domain registration.)

So to cut this short:
I guess you may have to find a German ISP that offers a package containing 
domain registration and a domain redirect w/o hosting.

Currently this is being offered for EURO .69 per month plus a flat fee of 
EURO 9.99.

I'd be happy to assist you if you wish. You may contact me off list.

HTH
Henning




From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com  Wed Nov 21 21:46:12 2001
From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Wed Nov 21 21:46:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] Search Engines
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20011122000132-r01010800-20c5b3c6-0921-0108@10.0.0.15>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011121194124.01dc99a0@mail.midtown.net>

Hi, Sean,

At 04:53 PM 11/21/2001, you wrote:
>What are all the things I need to do to a Web site in order to make it
>palatable to Search engines?

I wrote an article about this for Digital Web a few months back about this:

Designing for Search Engines and Stars
http://www.digital-web.com/tutorials/tutorial_2001-4.shtml

That ought to answer a bunch of those questions for you, and the article 
also has some excellent resources.

>How do I go about getting into search engines without paying money?
>
>Is there a quick and easy way?

Check both of these site for the latest on this:

Search Engine Watch (Danny Sullivan)
http://www.searchenginewatch.com/

RankWrite (Jill Whalen, Heather Martin)
http://www.rankwrite.com/

They both offer newsletters packed with good info, and archives at their 
sites, too.

If you make it through all that  I also have some great resources 
at WebsiteTips.com's Search Engine Info section:
http://www.websitetips.com/search/

HTH!

Warmly,
Shirley


>Sean

-- 
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html




From bev at enso-company.com  Wed Nov 21 22:21:12 2001
From: bev at enso-company.com (Bev Corwin)
Date: Wed Nov 21 22:21:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] ::Hi-Fi Fonts::
References: <000701c172f9$7fea76e0$1c00005a@redhat>
Message-ID: <14d501c1730e$1d0381b0$a2b999cf@beverlyvgh6gds>

I haven't checked lately,  but one of my favorite font sites is the Yamada
Language Center Font Archive:

http://babel.uoregon.edu/yamada/fonts.html

Also, there may be some more info here:

http://www.pal10n.org

Best wishes, and Happy USA Thanksgiving......
Bev

------------------------------------
Bev Corwin, President          Enso Company Ltd.
The Westin Building             2001 Sixth Avenue
Penthouse Suite 3403          Seattle WA 98121 USA
Telephone: 206.728.2232     Facsimile: 206.728.2262

----- Original Message -----
From: "Navin Dhanuka" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 6:00 PM
Subject: [thelist] ::Hi-Fi Fonts::


> Hi,
>
> Can any one direct me to a place from where I can download hi-fi fonts,
like
> the one used in the movie"The One".
>
> Also fonts used by apple.com
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Navin
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>





From Evolt at ZName.com  Wed Nov 21 22:21:40 2001
From: Evolt at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Evolt))
Date: Wed Nov 21 22:21:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"
In-Reply-To: <002901c172f5$001d51c0$88260a18@c1290587a>
Message-ID: 

Let me answer as a browser, not as a designer.

I almost never mind a site opening a new window. But that is a result of two
things:

(1) I never surf with the browser window maximized
(2) I almost always right-click and force a new window anyway.

There are many things that bother me much more than opening a new window.
Top among them is opening a new window using JavaScript, and removing my
control. Not letting me resize it. Taking away my toolbars. Opening it full
screen. I'd rather visit a site in which every link was new window than a
site that attempts to deny me my control of my browser.


James S. Huggins




.




From evolt at webmediaconception.com  Wed Nov 21 22:23:45 2001
From: evolt at webmediaconception.com (Henning)
Date: Wed Nov 21 22:23:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] german web terminology
In-Reply-To: <20011121161021.68879.qmail@web9807.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011122044107.00a710c0@pop.puretec.de>

Iris

>don't want hosting, email, url
>re-direction or anything like that.

Update:

A search on Google.de turned up this (among a long list of Swiss ISPs):

http://www.domain-discount.com/domains/nameservice.htm

They offer affordable standalone primary and secondary DNS service.

This one is a bit more expensive ;-)

http://www.die-fabrik.org/diefabrik.nsf/preise.htm?OpenPage#DNS_Anchor


Henning




From pmeeks at email.msn.com  Wed Nov 21 23:33:36 2001
From: pmeeks at email.msn.com (Pat Meeks)
Date: Wed Nov 21 23:33:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"
References: <002901c172f5$001d51c0$88260a18@c1290587a>
Message-ID: <001601c17317$3985da00$894983d0@shadow>

Paul:

> What are your opinions on opening links in new windows?

The only place I have links open new windows is on our "industry links" page
(I don't like JavaScript pop-up windows for this). I do that because of what
I find myself doing each time I'm on a site that has a good related links
page--that is, I alway open a new window so I can can quickly get back to
the main links page and continue to dig for good sites. I put a note on the
page that the links will open in a new window. We have a page of other sites
where visitors can reach businesses in their local area, and I don't open
new windows for that page, since we want the visitor to move to one of those
sites.

Pat




From km at km.com.au  Thu Nov 22 00:34:25 2001
From: km at km.com.au (Kelvin Markham)
Date: Thu Nov 22 00:34:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Last line of paragraph has 'deeper' line break - why?
Message-ID: <3BFC9F25.764DAC2F@km.com.au>

Page produced in Frontpage 2000, browsers Netscape 4.7 and/or Explorer
5.5

normal old text entry in webpage looks like this; 

Devonport is gateway to Cradle Mountain
National Park and other wilderness attractions. Marketed in conjunction
with Devonport City, the Australian
Tourist Commission and the Cruising Down Under Association, a variety of
shore excursions have been developed to cater for the interests of
cruise ship passengers.



as expected the page reads
"Devonport is gateway to Cradle Mountain National Park and other
wilderness attractions. Marketed in conjunction with Devonport City, the
Australian Tourist Commission and the Cruising Down Under Association, a
variety of shore excursions have been developed to cater for the
interests of cruise ship passengers."

BUT, the text is in a table that restricts the length of each line so
four line breaks occur, thus;
Devonport is gateway to Cradle Mountain National Park and other
wilderness attractions. Marketed in conjunction with Devonport
City, the Australian Tourist Commission and the Cruising Down
Under Association, a variety of shore excursions have been
developed to cater for the interests of cruise ship passengers.

the first three line breaks evenly space the lines from each other but
the last one is about 20% MORE! The variation is more pronounced when
the page is printed out. This seems to occur in lots of paras on all
sorts of sites and there's nothing in the html code that seems to cause
it.

The baffling thing is that some paragraphs on the same page still turn
out fine! If the problem occurred consistently there would be some ryme
or reason indicated but it's got me stumped, does anyone know how or why
this happens and is there a solution?

KM

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Kelvin Markham			Ph 03 6228 5833				
20 Sunnyside Rd			Fx 03 6228 7355	
Newtown Tasmania 7008		Mob 0419 152 612

Email km at km.com.au      Websites: km.com.au 
				  salamanca.com.au



From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 22 01:28:19 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Thu Nov 22 01:28:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] ::Hi-Fi Fonts::
In-Reply-To: <14d501c1730e$1d0381b0$a2b999cf@beverlyvgh6gds>
Message-ID: <20011122072822.72408.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com>

Ooh! Typography... one of my favorite subjects!

If by Hi-Fi you mean techy/edgy, then how 'bout this:
 
http://www.dsg4.com/04/extra/bitmap/index.html

Apple's corporate font is Apple Garamond... you can come really
close with a slightly condensed Light Garamond. The font on their
navigational tabs is probably an Espy Sans variant, which if you
don't have access to, could probably be approximated with
Frutiger or Meta. You can find them at http://www.philsfonts.com

hth

/rg 

> > Hi,
> >
> > Can any one direct me to a place from where I can download
> hi-fi fonts,
> like
> > the one used in the movie"The One".
> >
> > Also fonts used by apple.com
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Navin


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1



From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 22 01:32:42 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Thu Nov 22 01:32:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Vertical Text
In-Reply-To: <002f01c172df$9e5c7f20$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>
Message-ID: <20011122073245.72680.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com>

You might want to look into Flash 5's excellent printing
abilities. You could use Generator to build Flash on the fly, and
then control the postscript output perfectly.

/rg

--- Salvatore Palmisano  wrote:
> I agree completely Amanda; I should have been more clear about
> my
> intentions.
> A portion of our site is for employees only, and many of them
> have asked for
> the ability to print company ID cards right from the web site. 
> Part of
> those ID cards have vertical text on them, and Im working on
> reproducing the
> card for printing.
> Given all of the browser/printer differences, I'll probably
> just come up
> with a PDF file for them.
> 
> --Sal


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1



From alister at cameron.org  Thu Nov 22 01:41:59 2001
From: alister at cameron.org (Alister Cameron)
Date: Thu Nov 22 01:41:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] PGP on the web server
In-Reply-To: <3B1CA853.7ABB17CC@rosa.com>
Message-ID: 

I want to stick a form on my site and collect info from someone (with
SSL/HTTPS).

I then want to send it via an email back to myself, but the catch is that to
maintain security I was the server to encrypt the email against my PGP key
and then send it to me.

My server is IIS5, and I am hoping for a COM object that I can push the
email body to along with a/my PGP KEY, with it returning me the encrypted
results.

Sounds a really simple concept to me. But is it available? Is anyone out
there doing this?

Thanks!

Alister Cameron
Cameron Creative

PS. Please reply direct as well as to the list if U don't mind!




From kai at kaipahl.de  Thu Nov 22 01:57:47 2001
From: kai at kaipahl.de (Kai Pahl)
Date: Thu Nov 22 01:57:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Illustrator 10
In-Reply-To: <3BFBA50C.DEF4248C@canada.com>
Message-ID: 

> I was wondering if someone has a scoop of what's new with Ill 10...
> Has someone tried it already? Pros, cons?

take a look on the product-page of adobe, to get a glimpse on the new
features.


i got AI 10 since a week, but got no possibility to get deep onto the new
version.

what i absolutely disliked was the slow performance on macOS X/G3-powerBook
and macOS 9.1/G4. especially when using transparency stuff or styles with
blur-effects.

i noted a visual "bug" when the desktop-background gets refreshed after the
fadeout of a tooltip (OS 9.1).this bug and the performance looks like they
did major changes to the graphic-engine in AI.

interestingly they have changed the tool-palette after furnishing the
journalists with betas, because the tool-palette looks now differently, and
IMHO uglier.

there are some nice features about "warping" shapes and i like the ability
to re-use shapes with the help of "symbols" (like in flash).

still wondering why AI can't create multi-page documents...

so overall mixed feelings, but i didn't use AI10 very much so far.

bye
kai

--
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. Kai Pahl, Hamburg, Germany




From wade at runstrong.com  Thu Nov 22 02:59:20 2001
From: wade at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong)
Date: Thu Nov 22 02:59:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] PGP on the web server
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Check out ASPMail, http://www.serverobjects.com/products.htm#aspmail. It
requires PGP installed on the server.

Wade

on 11/21/01 11:44 PM, Alister Cameron at alister at cameron.org wrote:

> I want to stick a form on my site and collect info from someone (with
> SSL/HTTPS).
> 
> I then want to send it via an email back to myself, but the catch is that to
> maintain security I was the server to encrypt the email against my PGP key
> and then send it to me.
> 
> My server is IIS5, and I am hoping for a COM object that I can push the
> email body to along with a/my PGP KEY, with it returning me the encrypted
> results.
> 
> Sounds a really simple concept to me. But is it available? Is anyone out
> there doing this?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Alister Cameron
> Cameron Creative
> 
> PS. Please reply direct as well as to the list if U don't mind!
> 
> 




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Thu Nov 22 04:16:24 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Thu Nov 22 04:16:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] Search Engines
Message-ID: 

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Sean

Most search engines (goto is the exception) don't charge any money for your
site being in the index, nor for placing your site high up the index for
relevent
queries.

What money *will* do is accelerate you getting into the index (push you
further up the queue of sites to be spidered) and get you ads on the same
page as the listing. Goto will also push you further up the list if you pay
-
but it's transparent to users as they tell users how much you paid :-)

To make your site search engine-friendly is pretty simple:
1) Be what your audience is looking for (ie have good content)

2) Make sure that the SE spider can understand what your content is about
    by parsing the text. So mark everything up with semantic HTML (ie 

    rather than 
), make sure that your pages have clear,
    simple titles which say what the page is about, alt-text every image
apart from
    spacers.

3) Pursuade people to link to your site (does wonders for the Google
ranking)

4) Don't, don't, don't feed content to the SE which users can't see. This
includes
    text the same colour as the background and server-side tricks (known as
cloaking).
    These things *will* get you removed from SE indices.

Cheers
Martin


To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:  [thelist] Search Engines



What are all the things I need to do to a Web site in order to make it
palatable to Search engines?

How do I go about getting into search engines without paying money?

Is there a quick and easy way?


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

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behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
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From darren at web-bitch.co.uk  Thu Nov 22 07:06:45 2001
From: darren at web-bitch.co.uk (darren)
Date: Thu Nov 22 07:06:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Scheduled sending of email
Message-ID: <14111675248.20011122130647@web-bitch.co.uk>

afternoon all,

i'm trying to find a way to only get email to be sent between certain
times using asp and the smtp service on iis5.

we have various emails that need to go out to about 6000 of our
customers.  some of these emails may be quite large and so we'd like to
schedule when they are actually sent to the end of the business day.  to
make things a little more complex, we have other emails that would need
to go out immediately, so i can't just block everything.

msdn suggests running a chron job that will run the script to generate
the emails or move the emails to the pickup directory, but this seems a
little kludgy.  also does anyone know if cdo for win2k can connect to a
mail server that isn't being pointed to in the smtp service on the same
machine??

thanks for any pointers,

happy thanksgiving to those celebrating...

darren.




From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 22 07:22:19 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Thu Nov 22 07:22:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Last line of paragraph has 'deeper' line break - why?
In-Reply-To: <3BFC9F25.764DAC2F@km.com.au>
Message-ID: <20011122132223.42572.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com>

Get rid of the whitespace between your  and the 
,
thus:

hgkhghgjh jhgjhgjg jhgjgjhg.


The unstyled text (blank spaces) are pushing open your line
height.

/rg

--- Kelvin Markham  wrote:
> Page produced in Frontpage 2000, browsers Netscape 4.7 and/or
> Explorer
> 5.5
> 
> normal old text entry in webpage looks like this; 
> 
Devonport is gateway to Cradle
> Mountain
> National Park and other wilderness attractions. Marketed in
> conjunction
> with Devonport City, the Australian
> Tourist Commission and the Cruising Down Under Association, a
> variety of
> shore excursions have been developed to cater for the interests
> of
> cruise ship passengers.
> 

...
> the first three line breaks evenly space the lines from each
> other but
> the last one is about 20% MORE! The variation is more
> pronounced when
> the page is printed out. This seems to occur in lots of paras
> on all
> sorts of sites and there's nothing in the html code that seems
> to cause
> it.
> 
> The baffling thing is that some paragraphs on the same page
> still turn
> out fine! If the problem occurred consistently there would be
> some ryme
> or reason indicated but it's got me stumped, does anyone know
> how or why
> this happens and is there a solution?
> 
> KM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1



From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Thu Nov 22 07:59:32 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Thu Nov 22 07:59:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Last line of paragraph has 'deeper' line break - why?
Message-ID: 

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Or better, use CSS to style your paragraph tags:
p {
     font-size: 9px;;
     font-family: Arial, Geneva, sans-serif;
}

So then all you need to do is


     Devonport is gateway to Cradle Mountain National
     Park and other wilderness attractions. Marketed in
     conjunction with Devonport City, the Australian
     Tourist Commission and the Cruising Down Under Association, a
     variety of shore excursions have been developed to cater
     for the interests of cruise ship passengers.



Cheers
Martin





Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  Re: [thelist] Last line of paragraph has 'deeper' line break -
      why?


Get rid of the whitespace between your  and the 
,
thus:

hgkhghgjh jhgjhgjg jhgjgjhg.


The unstyled text (blank spaces) are pushing open your line
height.

/rg

--- Kelvin Markham  wrote:
>
> normal old text entry in webpage looks like this;
> 
Devonport is gateway to Cradle
> Mountain
> National Park and other wilderness attractions. Marketed in
> conjunction
> with Devonport City, the Australian
> Tourist Commission and the Cruising Down Under Association, a
> variety of
> shore excursions have been developed to cater for the interests
> of
> cruise ship passengers.
> 

.


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
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taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From webguru at vsnl.net  Thu Nov 22 08:23:41 2001
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Thu Nov 22 08:23:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: Java/J++, general programming question
In-Reply-To: <20011121234559.695E08F1@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011122195135.032c7518@203.197.12.4>

>A friend of mine just sent me the following question:
>
>"Hey! If possible, could you find out for me if I
>should be learning visual j++, or something else. My
>understanding (I think) is that visual j++ is just a
>compiler, but I want to make sure before I invest to

 From what I know, Visual J++ is Microsoft's version of Java. One can code 
in it using
Microsoft's Visual Studio. I don't think any other compilter or vendor 
conforms to this.

Of course, I'm no Java guru. There are others on this list. Perhaps someone 
else could add more?

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net




From chrism at puffofsmoke.net  Thu Nov 22 08:54:45 2001
From: chrism at puffofsmoke.net (The Optimizer)
Date: Thu Nov 22 08:54:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: Java/J++, general programming question
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011122195135.032c7518@203.197.12.4>
Message-ID: 

> >A friend of mine just sent me the following question:
> >
> >"Hey! If possible, could you find out for me if I
> >should be learning visual j++, or something else. My
> >understanding (I think) is that visual j++ is just a
> >compiler, but I want to make sure before I invest to
>
>  From what I know, Visual J++ is Microsoft's version of Java. One
> can code
> in it using
> Microsoft's Visual Studio. I don't think any other compilter or vendor
> conforms to this.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vjcore98/ht
ml/vjhowgettingstarted.asp?frame=true

"Microsoft Visual J++ is an integrated Windows-hosted development tool for
Java programming. Visual J++ allows you to create, modify, build, run,
debug, and package an application, all within a single environment.

"Visual J++ 6.0 introduces the Windows Foundation Classes for Java (WFC).
This new application framework accesses the Microsoft Windows API, enabling
you to write full-featured Windows applications with the Java programming
language. WFC also wraps the Dynamic HTML object model implemented in
Internet Explorer 4.0, which allows you to dynamically manipulate HTML on
both the client and the server."

[..]

HTH

Chris Marsh




From joel at spinhead.com  Thu Nov 22 09:12:10 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Thu Nov 22 09:12:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"
In-Reply-To: <002901c172f5$001d51c0$88260a18@c1290587a>
Message-ID: <000a01c17368$36eb7c40$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

On our corporate site, all PDFs open in a new window. We don't have very
many offsite links at the moment. Someone mentioned the idea of a
notice, or separate icons for new window/same window. Cool idea. If we
were to add links that we thought should open in a new window (besides
the PDFs) I'd implement one of those ideas.

joel at spinhead.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Paul Peterson
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:29 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"


Here's one for the polls...

What are your opinions on opening links in new windows? Do you use them?
If so, when do you feel is an appropriate/inappropriate instance? Do you
add warnings (e.g. "will open in a new window") or let the users figure
it out for themselves?

Personally, I add links to new windows if they are amid content that I
want the user to come back to immediately. If it is on a "Links" page or
something similar, I will have the link open in the same window, since
the user is apparently ready to leave the site. Lately, I have been
adding more warnings if I think users may get confused otherwise.

Looking forward to your thoughts.
Paul


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From joel at spinhead.com  Thu Nov 22 09:25:02 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Thu Nov 22 09:25:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Scheduled sending of email
In-Reply-To: <14111675248.20011122130647@web-bitch.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000b01c1736a$046637e0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

Haven't tried this, but in the SMTP site settings, you can choose the
SMTP server by fully qualified domain name, so ostensibly you could
point to another server there. However, that would use the other machine
for all mail. Don't know if you could add another SMTP domain and choose
between the two. There's also the option for a smart host; if you've got
Exchange  or another mail server running, that can be used as well.

What don't you like about the MSDN suggestion? Sounds like they're
recommending using the mailroot folder the way it was designed. 

joel at spinhead.com


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of darren
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 5:07 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Scheduled sending of email


afternoon all,

i'm trying to find a way to only get email to be sent between certain
times using asp and the smtp service on iis5.

we have various emails that need to go out to about 6000 of our
customers.  some of these emails may be quite large and so we'd like to
schedule when they are actually sent to the end of the business day.  to
make things a little more complex, we have other emails that would need
to go out immediately, so i can't just block everything.

msdn suggests running a chron job that will run the script to generate
the emails or move the emails to the pickup directory, but this seems a
little kludgy.  also does anyone know if cdo for win2k can connect to a
mail server that isn't being pointed to in the smtp service on the same
machine??

thanks for any pointers,

happy thanksgiving to those celebrating...

darren.
 




From joel at spinhead.com  Thu Nov 22 09:30:39 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Thu Nov 22 09:30:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Search Engines
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000c01c1736a$c75aaa60$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

Hey Martin - just curious if this plan really works. You're the voice of
experience, not theory, right? Most folks seem to insist that SE
rankings are based on the infinite efforts of specialists. I've always
thought it should be as simple as you describe, but don't have enough
experience with commercial sites to know. 

Re: alt text on spacers - you're saying 'put in the alt text tag, but
leave it empty' right?

joel at spinhead.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of
martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 2:10 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Search Engines



Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

[ . . . ] 

To make your site search engine-friendly is pretty simple:
1) Be what your audience is looking for (ie have good content)

2) Make sure that the SE spider can understand what your content is
about
    by parsing the text. So mark everything up with semantic HTML (ie


    rather than 
), make sure that your pages have
clear,
    simple titles which say what the page is about, alt-text every image
apart from
    spacers.

3) Pursuade people to link to your site (does wonders for the Google
ranking)

4) Don't, don't, don't feed content to the SE which users can't see.
This includes
    text the same colour as the background and server-side tricks (known
as cloaking).
    These things *will* get you removed from SE indices.

Cheers
Martin


To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:  [thelist] Search Engines





From mike at angloinfo.com  Thu Nov 22 09:52:04 2001
From: mike at angloinfo.com (Mike Hardaker)
Date: Thu Nov 22 09:52:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <000c01c1736a$c75aaa60$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>
Message-ID: 

> Hey Martin - just curious if this plan really works. You're the voice of
> experience, not theory, right? Most folks seem to insist that SE
> rankings are based on the infinite efforts of specialists. I've always
> thought it should be as simple as you describe, but don't have enough
> experience with commercial sites to know.

Martin speaks sooth.

The *very best* way to get a good SE ranking is to have the information on your
site that the users are searching for.

Of course, thet's pretty pointless if the spider can't read it. So:

* Don't just have "key words" in graphics or, worse, somthing like a Flash file
* Use HTML correctly.
* Frames *can* be bad news too... especially if you do "clever stuff" like
automatically redirecting a page that hasn't loaded into its frameset into the
frameset it "should" be. Not all spiders are frames-capable, so your page will
be indexed as "This page requires frames but your browser doesn't..." etc. *If*
the spider doesn't barf on the redirect in the first place.

...and all the other stuff you really *should* be doing anyway :-)

> Re: alt text on spacers - you're saying 'put in the alt text tag, but
> leave it empty' right?

That's right!

Usage: 

Finally, I think it's worth pointing out that  tags seem less and less
relevant for search engine ranking (rightly, as they're so easy to spoof).
*However*, they can be handy for getting the user to click through from a search
engine results page. e.g. AltaVista uses the "description" tag for its own page
description, while some sites also list the "keywords" tag. So make sure these
things can communicate to *people* rather than spiders...

For the same reason, use a  that communicates something meaningful. You
may be really proud that your company is called "MangelWurzel", and want to use
that as the title for every page even though it doesn't tell anyone that what
you *do* is breed jackalopes. However, a search result that has a nice bold
hyperlink saying "Jackalope breeding by experts - MangelWurzel" is more likely
to inspire a click-through. And as a side issue, you'll probbaly enhance your
ranking on many engines because a "key search term" will be in the title!

So top your page with something like:

<head>
<title>Jackalope breeding by experts - MangelWurzel


...



Mike

---------------------------
Mike Hardaker
Founder & Publisher - AngloINFO
http://www.angloinfo.com




From darren at web-bitch.co.uk  Thu Nov 22 09:57:08 2001
From: darren at web-bitch.co.uk (darren)
Date: Thu Nov 22 09:57:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Scheduled sending of email
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1736a$046637e0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>
References: <000b01c1736a$046637e0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>
Message-ID: <3821899670.20011122155712@web-bitch.co.uk>

On 22 November 2001 at 15:26:11, Joel D Canfield  wrote:

JDC> Haven't tried this, but in the SMTP site settings, you can choose the
JDC> SMTP server by fully qualified domain name, so ostensibly you could
JDC> point to another server there. However, that would use the other machine
JDC> for all mail. Don't know if you could add another SMTP domain and choose
JDC> between the two. There's also the option for a smart host; if you've got
JDC> Exchange  or another mail server running, that can be used as well.

i've had a play around with cdo2 and you *can* specify a different server
from the one setup in the virtual smtp service, along with any
username/password combinations that you need.  which would pretty much
solve this problem.

JDC> What don't you like about the MSDN suggestion? Sounds like they're
JDC> recommending using the mailroot folder the way it was designed.

their method was to run a vbscript at a set time to generate the email.
this can be changed so that you write out the emails to one directory and
then run a script to move them.

i didn't like it 'cos it seems a bit kludgy to be running a script to
move files, when i was hoping for a more elegant method...something like,
if the message is high priority then send now, otherwise hold on to it
until midnight...too much of a dreamer! ;>

thanks for your help,

darren.




From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Thu Nov 22 10:02:07 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:02:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

hi peeps,

does anyone know how to get rid of the white dotted line on images that are
clickable when you click on them in IE - i need some sort of code for it - a
customer doesn't like it - i tried to explain thats its just the way it is -
but i said id try and find some code.

A mate of mine said if i put onclick="slef.blur()" that should get rid of
it - but it didn't work - im using IE6 - maybe that has something to do with
it.

Anyway - if anyone knows it would be a great help.

cheers

paul




From WiredRepublic at aol.com  Thu Nov 22 10:06:26 2001
From: WiredRepublic at aol.com (WiredRepublic at aol.com)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:06:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
Message-ID: <42.1dd37399.292e7c80@aol.com>

>> A mate of mine said if i put onclick="slef.blur()" that should get rid of
it

the "slef" part doesnt sound right. "self" maybe?..



From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Thu Nov 22 10:10:36 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:10:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
Message-ID: 

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Hi Paul

Doing so would be a major impediment to accessibility - that's
what they're there for.

Where's the client based? If it's in the UK, they'll be falling foul of
the Disability Discrimination Act (penalties: unlimited fines and
putting it right).

Cheers
Martin




Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images


hi peeps,

does anyone know how to get rid of the white dotted line on images that are
clickable when you click on them in IE - i need some sort of code for it -
a
customer doesn't like it - i tried to explain thats its just the way it is
-
but i said id try and find some code.

A mate of mine said if i put onclick="slef.blur()" that should get rid of
it - but it didn't work - im using IE6 - maybe that has something to do
with
it.


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Thu Nov 22 10:18:41 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:18:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Wierd - yeh yeh - my spelling can be crap alot of the time - doing to many
thing at one time.

Martin - what implications are you refering to about disabilty issues?
how will turning the white dotted line off effect them?

cheers

paul

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of
martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com
Sent: 22 November 2001 16:09
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
images



Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Hi Paul

Doing so would be a major impediment to accessibility - that's
what they're there for.

Where's the client based? If it's in the UK, they'll be falling foul of
the Disability Discrimination Act (penalties: unlimited fines and
putting it right).

Cheers
Martin




Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images


hi peeps,

does anyone know how to get rid of the white dotted line on images that are
clickable when you click on them in IE - i need some sort of code for it -
a
customer doesn't like it - i tried to explain thats its just the way it is
-
but i said id try and find some code.

A mate of mine said if i put onclick="slef.blur()" that should get rid of
it - but it didn't work - im using IE6 - maybe that has something to do
with
it.


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Thu Nov 22 10:18:51 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:18:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Scheduled sending of email
In-Reply-To: <14111675248.20011122130647@web-bitch.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011122081517.02c66958@baratta.com>

At 05:06 AM 11/22/2001, you wrote:
>afternoon all,
>
>i'm trying to find a way to only get email to be sent between certain
>times using asp and the smtp service on iis5.

Do you have accesss to MS SQL?

Why not store the important email info in the DB (like priority: immediate 
versus bulk), the file attachments - if any - in a file directory with a 
pointer in the DB Table to it, and schedule a SQL Job to run through the 
"queue" picking the "immediates" and bypassing the "bulk mail" during the 
8am-5pm hours?
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From kernel at esatclear.ie  Thu Nov 22 10:19:29 2001
From: kernel at esatclear.ie (Ross Lynch)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:19:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

> does anyone know how to get rid of the
> white dotted line on images that are
> clickable when you click on them in IE -
> i need some sort of code for it - a
> customer doesn't like it - i tried to
> explain thats its just the way it is -
> but i said id try and find some code.

Personally, I'd tell them to contact Microsoft if
they don't like the way the browser works.

Seriously, how do you tolerate complaints like that?
It's integral functionality of the browser. Tell
them if they use Lynx they won't have to experience
such awfulness ;)

 -Ross

____________________________________________________
ross lynch  | me at rosslynch.com  | +353 (0)87 7959178
____________________________________________________
Nicht auf dem Teppich, Mann!





From WiredRepublic at aol.com  Thu Nov 22 10:21:26 2001
From: WiredRepublic at aol.com (WiredRepublic at aol.com)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:21:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
Message-ID: <80.1379fc1c.292e8005@aol.com>

I'm wierd now huh? ;)

Rich.



From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Thu Nov 22 10:22:10 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:22:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Ross
	trust me mate - i almost went blue in the face - its like trying to teach a
donkey its a horse or something with some clients!

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Ross Lynch
Sent: 22 November 2001 16:23
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
images



> does anyone know how to get rid of the
> white dotted line on images that are
> clickable when you click on them in IE -
> i need some sort of code for it - a
> customer doesn't like it - i tried to
> explain thats its just the way it is -
> but i said id try and find some code.

Personally, I'd tell them to contact Microsoft if
they don't like the way the browser works.

Seriously, how do you tolerate complaints like that?
It's integral functionality of the browser. Tell
them if they use Lynx they won't have to experience
such awfulness ;)

 -Ross

____________________________________________________
ross lynch  | me at rosslynch.com  | +353 (0)87 7959178
____________________________________________________
Nicht auf dem Teppich, Mann!



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From kristina at kfx-design.co.uk  Thu Nov 22 10:23:40 2001
From: kristina at kfx-design.co.uk (kristina)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:23:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <34284532806.20011122162350@kfx-design.co.uk>

Paul,

on Thursday, November 22, 2001, 4:01:26 PM, Paul wrote:

::
> does anyone know how to get rid of the white dotted line on images that are
> clickable when you click on them in IE - i need some sort of code for it - a
> customer doesn't like it - i tried to explain thats its just the way it is -
> but i said id try and find some code.
::

(another) fqa for Rudy ;o)

it is there for a reason (a very important one)
Accessibility accessibility acessibility

If you turn off the dotted line, users who use their keyboards to
navigate your site will be completely & utterly lost, as they will
have no idea where they are - because there is no dotted line.

Try navigating a site with the tab key, I did see a link once that
highlighted this very thing perfectly.  But of course I can't find it
right now.... (sorry)

-- 
hth
 Kristina

kristina at kfx-design.co.uk


"When written in Chinese, the word 'crisis' is composed of two characters.
One represents danger, and the other represents opportunity."
-- John F. Kennedy




From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Thu Nov 22 10:26:48 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:26:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
In-Reply-To: <34284532806.20011122162350@kfx-design.co.uk>
Message-ID: 

Kristina,
	    right - think ive got enough reasons why not to do it now - il just
tell the client theres noubt i can do about and if she really wants to take
it up with Bill Gates.

Cheers

paul

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of kristina
Sent: 22 November 2001 16:24
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
images


Paul,

on Thursday, November 22, 2001, 4:01:26 PM, Paul wrote:

::
> does anyone know how to get rid of the white dotted line on images that
are
> clickable when you click on them in IE - i need some sort of code for it -
a
> customer doesn't like it - i tried to explain thats its just the way it
is -
> but i said id try and find some code.
::

(another) fqa for Rudy ;o)

it is there for a reason (a very important one)
Accessibility accessibility acessibility

If you turn off the dotted line, users who use their keyboards to
navigate your site will be completely & utterly lost, as they will
have no idea where they are - because there is no dotted line.

Try navigating a site with the tab key, I did see a link once that
highlighted this very thing perfectly.  But of course I can't find it
right now.... (sorry)

--
hth
 Kristina

kristina at kfx-design.co.uk


"When written in Chinese, the word 'crisis' is composed of two characters.
One represents danger, and the other represents opportunity."
-- John F. Kennedy


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From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Thu Nov 22 10:28:18 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:28:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
Message-ID: 

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Paul

Disabled users using the keyboard rather than a mouse tab through
the links to select the desired one, and then hit return to activate it.

(this may not be a standard keyboard btw, it may be an assistive
device (simplistically, big keys!), but the browser doesn't know that)

The dotted line is the only way they have to know that the image
is the currently selected one. So disabled users won't be able to
use those links because you've deliberately prevented them from
doing so.

It's probably only a small number of individuals, but the law won't
care. The Sydney Olympic Committee lost their case raised by one
individual - that's all it takes.

Cheers
Martin




Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  RE: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
      images


Martin - what implications are you refering to about disabilty issues?
how will turning the white dotted line off effect them?

cheers

paul

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of
martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com
Sent: 22 November 2001 16:09
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
images



Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Hi Paul

Doing so would be a major impediment to accessibility - that's
what they're there for.
Where's the client based? If it's in the UK, they'll be falling foul of
the Disability Discrimination Act (penalties: unlimited fines and
putting it right).

Cheers
Martin




Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images


hi peeps,

does anyone know how to get rid of the white dotted line on images that are
clickable when you click on them in IE - i need some sort of code for it -
a
customer doesn't like it - i tried to explain thats its just the way it is
-
but i said id try and find some code.

A mate of mine said if i put onclick="slef.blur()" that should get rid of
it - but it didn't work - im using IE6 - maybe that has something to do
with
it.


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

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individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

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e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.


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--------------------- End of message text --------------------

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Thu Nov 22 10:30:46 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:30:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
Message-ID: 

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

I think you're right, Kristina, but it's pretty much covered under the
FQAs of "Don't" and "Because it's evil"

*grin*
Martin




Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:  Re: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
      images


Paul,

on Thursday, November 22, 2001, 4:01:26 PM, Paul wrote:

::
> does anyone know how to get rid of the white dotted line on images that
are
> clickable when you click on them in IE - i need some sort of code for it
- a
> customer doesn't like it - i tried to explain thats its just the way it
is -
> but i said id try and find some code.
::

(another) fqa for Rudy ;o)

it is there for a reason (a very important one)
Accessibility accessibility acessibility

If you turn off the dotted line, users who use their keyboards to
navigate your site will be completely & utterly lost, as they will
have no idea where they are - because there is no dotted line.

Try navigating a site with the tab key, I did see a link once that
highlighted this very thing perfectly.  But of course I can't find it
right now.... (sorry)


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Thu Nov 22 10:31:06 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:31:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

oh this just gets better and better!!!!




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Thu Nov 22 10:32:38 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:32:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
Message-ID: 

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

...who will trot out the same Accessibility line.

Say what you like about MS, they've done their bit to support
Accessibility (if only to get the Government contracts) in their
software.

Cheers
Martin




Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  RE: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
      images

I'll just
tell the client theres noubt i can do about and if she really wants to take
it up with Bill Gates.

Cheers

paul




--------------------- End of message text --------------------

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individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From joel at spinhead.com  Thu Nov 22 10:35:26 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:35:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] Oledb connection problem with Access XP
Message-ID: <000d01c17373$db936db0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

Any idea why this code:

     Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
     objConn = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data
Source=c:\Inetpub\wwwroot\issimo\issimo.mdb"

     strQuery="SELECT * FROM products"

     Set InsProduct = objConn.Execute(strQuery)

begets this error?

     Error Type:
     Microsoft VBScript runtime (0x800A01A8)
     Object required: 'Provider=Microsoft.J'
     /issimo/ins_prods_response2.asp, line 20

My environment is Windows 2000 Pro and Access XP (2002). The path to the
database in the objConn string is correct. The database is not password
protected, and IUSR_machinename has full control of the full path to the
db.

Thanks

joel at spinhead.com




From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Thu Nov 22 10:42:57 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:42:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Oledb connection problem with Access XP
In-Reply-To: <000d01c17373$db936db0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>
Message-ID: 

Joel,
	you could try this:

	objConn = "Driver={Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb)};
DBQ=c:\Inetpub\wwwroot\issimo\issimo.mdb"

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Joel D Canfield
Sent: 22 November 2001 16:37
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Oledb connection problem with Access XP


Any idea why this code:

     Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
     objConn = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data
Source=c:\Inetpub\wwwroot\issimo\issimo.mdb"

     strQuery="SELECT * FROM products"

     Set InsProduct = objConn.Execute(strQuery)

begets this error?

     Error Type:
     Microsoft VBScript runtime (0x800A01A8)
     Object required: 'Provider=Microsoft.J'
     /issimo/ins_prods_response2.asp, line 20

My environment is Windows 2000 Pro and Access XP (2002). The path to the
database in the objConn string is correct. The database is not password
protected, and IUSR_machinename has full control of the full path to the
db.

Thanks

joel at spinhead.com


---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From adrian at cubitum.co.uk  Thu Nov 22 10:50:58 2001
From: adrian at cubitum.co.uk (Adrian Simmons)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:50:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
 images
In-Reply-To: <34284532806.20011122162350@kfx-design.co.uk>
References: 
 <34284532806.20011122162350@kfx-design.co.uk>
Message-ID: 

>If you turn off the dotted line, users who use their keyboards to
>navigate your site will be completely & utterly lost, as they will
>have no idea where they are - because there is no dotted line.

Is this the same as the solid border you get in IE 5 mac when using 
the keyboard to navigate pages? It appears around all links, whether 
they are clickable images or not.

Sorry if I'm missing something here but, for IE 5 mac, you turn off 
that behavior in the browser (it is on by default) by going to 
Preferences>Web Browser>Browser Display and setting Keyboard 
Accessibility to "Tab to just text fields" Option-tab to each item.

Which has the effect of removing the link border when you are using 
the mouse, but keeps it if you Option-tab.

Maybe you can tell that customer to change their browser preferences 
- or maybe the PC IE versions don't let you change that...

I suppose what we really need is a way to change the appearance of 
those link borders with CSS, to make them fit with the design rather 
than just turning them off.

-- 
Adrian

e-mail:
mailto:adrian at cubitum.co.uk

Web Site:
http://www.cubitum.co.uk

Netscape/AOL Instant Message ID:
adrianatcubitum




From darren at web-bitch.co.uk  Thu Nov 22 10:51:21 2001
From: darren at web-bitch.co.uk (darren)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:51:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Oledb connection problem with Access XP
In-Reply-To: <000d01c17373$db936db0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>
References: <000d01c17373$db936db0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>
Message-ID: <12025152968.20011122165125@web-bitch.co.uk>

On 22 November 2001 at 16:36:37, Joel D Canfield  wrote:

JDC> Any idea why this code:

JDC>      Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
JDC>      objConn = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data
JDC> Source=c:\Inetpub\wwwroot\issimo\issimo.mdb"

JDC>      strQuery="SELECT * FROM products"

JDC>      Set InsProduct = objConn.Execute(strQuery)

JDC> begets this error?

cos you're trying to set your db connect to your connection string.  try

   objConn.Open ("Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data
                 Source=c:\Inetpub\wwwroot\issimo\issimo.mdb")

hth,

darren




From joel at spinhead.com  Thu Nov 22 10:51:46 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Thu Nov 22 10:51:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] Oledb connection problem with Access XP
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000e01c17376$1fb81f20$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

Same error.

Error Type:
Microsoft VBScript runtime (0x800A01A8)
Object required: 'Driver={Microsoft Ac'
/issimo/ins_prods_response3.asp, line 20

joel

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Paul Backhouse
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 8:42 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Oledb connection problem with Access XP


Joel,
	you could try this:

	objConn = "Driver={Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb)};
DBQ=c:\Inetpub\wwwroot\issimo\issimo.mdb"

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Joel D Canfield
Sent: 22 November 2001 16:37
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Oledb connection problem with Access XP


Any idea why this code:

     Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
     objConn = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data
Source=c:\Inetpub\wwwroot\issimo\issimo.mdb"

     strQuery="SELECT * FROM products"

     Set InsProduct = objConn.Execute(strQuery)

begets this error?

     Error Type:
     Microsoft VBScript runtime (0x800A01A8)
     Object required: 'Provider=Microsoft.J'
     /issimo/ins_prods_response2.asp, line 20

My environment is Windows 2000 Pro and Access XP (2002). The path to the
database in the objConn string is correct. The database is not password
protected, and IUSR_machinename has full control of the full path to the
db.

Thanks

joel at spinhead.com


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From headlemur at clearskymail.com  Thu Nov 22 11:01:43 2001
From: headlemur at clearskymail.com (the head lemur)
Date: Thu Nov 22 11:01:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
References: 
Message-ID: <00cd01c17377$21f9b540$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>


> does anyone know how to get rid of the white dotted line on images that
are
> clickable when you click on them in IE - i need some sort of code for it -
a
> customer doesn't like it - i tried to explain thats its just the way it
is -

Since you are building the client a website, we can assume a baseline greed
factor. Management is looking to make more money. This is normal.  A website
is a cost effective medium to do this. They are looking to increase sales
and/or reduce their overhead in support for their products/services.

The short snappy answer is to load Netscape on his machine.

What part of accessibility is your client having a problem with?
The legal ramifications of Section 508 in the US, the Disability
Discrimination Act in the UK, and others? The white dotted line is an
accessibility "feature". It may not be the best implementation, but there
you go.

Is his product/service one that will only have applicability to broadband
connected, college educated, white folks who earn in excess of $80,000 bucks
a year?

Changing 'Default' browser behaviours is dangerous, for a number of reasons.
Over half the folks on the web have been here less than 12 months, use it
less than 10 hours a month, and will not spend a lot of time on sites that
don't work.

You usually end up creating a scripted solution that works in only one
browser, necessitating  multiple versions, @import tricks, and if the
'features' are disabled on the visitor end, such as turning off javascript,
activeX, java, if the visitor has enabled their own style sheet, or if they
are using any other browser, all of your solution is down the drain.

Bottom Line:
The further away from default browser behaviours you go, the smaller your
clients opportunities to save money on support, or to increase sales.

the head lemur
Web Standards
http://www.webstandards.org
Evolt
http://www.evolt.org
lemurzone
http://www.lemurzone.com




























From joel at spinhead.com  Thu Nov 22 11:03:06 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Thu Nov 22 11:03:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Oledb connection problem with Access XP
In-Reply-To: <12025152968.20011122165125@web-bitch.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001001c17377$afb17670$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

Ouch! That should have been obvious. I think the traditional response
is, "I need more sleep."

Thanks!

joel

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of darren
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 8:51 AM
To: thelist
Subject: Re: [thelist] Oledb connection problem with Access XP


On 22 November 2001 at 16:36:37, Joel D Canfield 
wrote:

JDC> Any idea why this code:

JDC>      Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
JDC>      objConn = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data
JDC> Source=c:\Inetpub\wwwroot\issimo\issimo.mdb"

JDC>      strQuery="SELECT * FROM products"

JDC>      Set InsProduct = objConn.Execute(strQuery)

JDC> begets this error?

cos you're trying to set your db connect to your connection string.  try

   objConn.Open ("Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data
                 Source=c:\Inetpub\wwwroot\issimo\issimo.mdb")

hth,

darren





From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Thu Nov 22 11:09:05 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Thu Nov 22 11:09:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
In-Reply-To: <00cd01c17377$21f9b540$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>
Message-ID: 

Lemur - yeh i know abotu defautl browsers - always program for browser
defaults - but if the client does specify something (even after we have
informed them that this is going to change the way a majority will view) you
have to please them

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of the head lemur
Sent: 22 November 2001 17:00
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
images




> does anyone know how to get rid of the white dotted line on images that
are
> clickable when you click on them in IE - i need some sort of code for it -
a
> customer doesn't like it - i tried to explain thats its just the way it
is -

Since you are building the client a website, we can assume a baseline greed
factor. Management is looking to make more money. This is normal.  A website
is a cost effective medium to do this. They are looking to increase sales
and/or reduce their overhead in support for their products/services.

The short snappy answer is to load Netscape on his machine.

What part of accessibility is your client having a problem with?
The legal ramifications of Section 508 in the US, the Disability
Discrimination Act in the UK, and others? The white dotted line is an
accessibility "feature". It may not be the best implementation, but there
you go.

Is his product/service one that will only have applicability to broadband
connected, college educated, white folks who earn in excess of $80,000 bucks
a year?

Changing 'Default' browser behaviours is dangerous, for a number of reasons.
Over half the folks on the web have been here less than 12 months, use it
less than 10 hours a month, and will not spend a lot of time on sites that
don't work.

You usually end up creating a scripted solution that works in only one
browser, necessitating  multiple versions, @import tricks, and if the
'features' are disabled on the visitor end, such as turning off javascript,
activeX, java, if the visitor has enabled their own style sheet, or if they
are using any other browser, all of your solution is down the drain.

Bottom Line:
The further away from default browser behaviours you go, the smaller your
clients opportunities to save money on support, or to increase sales.

the head lemur
Web Standards
http://www.webstandards.org
Evolt
http://www.evolt.org
lemurzone
http://www.lemurzone.com


























---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From web at master.gen.in.us  Thu Nov 22 11:18:45 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Thu Nov 22 11:18:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: Java/J++, general programming question
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011122195135.032c7518@203.197.12.4>
References: <20011121234559.695E08F1@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3BFCEDBC.16258.C449700@localhost>

On 22 Nov 2001, at 19:53, Madhu Menon posted a message which said:

> >"Hey! If possible, could you find out for me if I
> >should be learning visual j++, or something else. My
> >understanding (I think) is that visual j++ is just a
> >compiler, but I want to make sure before I invest to

It's not just investing in the compiler, it's investing the time.

The handwriting is on the wall - and on court documents - for
Visual J++.  Why invest time and money in learning a product
that you *know* will soon be discontinued?  It seems like a
no-brainer to go with *real* Java, if you're headed in that general
direction and you don't plan on retiring or dying in the near
future.

deke







*Any great truth can -- and eventually will -- be expressed as a cliche
-- a cliche is a sure and certain way to dilute an idea. For instance,
my grandmother used to say, "The black cat is always the last one off
the fence." I have no idea what she meant, but at one time, it was
undoubtedly true. --
                       Solomon Short



From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com  Thu Nov 22 11:21:46 2001
From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Thu Nov 22 11:21:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <000c01c1736a$c75aaa60$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>
References: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011122091531.04549ec0@mail.midtown.net>

Joel,

I'm not Martin ;-)  but I do have lots of experience with this as a web 
designer, developer. Designing for search engines is part of my specialty. 
At times I partner with SEO experts to let them do their thing with 
registrations, but primarily I do all this myself for my clients' 
commercial sites. I do similar approaches with my own sites, and I've found 
it all works very well indeed.

Martin gives a good list of goodies in his note. I also wrote an article 
for Digital Web that I mention in another note here that lists these things 
and lots more, with resources and further details, if you're interested in 
checking this out further.

>Designing for Search Engines and Stars
>http://www.digital-web.com/tutorials/tutorial_2001-4.shtml

Warmly,
Shirley

At 07:31 AM 11/22/2001, you wrote:
>Hey Martin - just curious if this plan really works. You're the voice of
>experience, not theory, right? Most folks seem to insist that SE
>rankings are based on the infinite efforts of specialists. I've always
>thought it should be as simple as you describe, but don't have enough
>experience with commercial sites to know.
>
>Re: alt text on spacers - you're saying 'put in the alt text tag, but
>leave it empty' right?
>
>joel at spinhead.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of
>martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com
>Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 2:10 AM
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] Search Engines
>
>
>
>Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers
>
>-------------------- Start of message text --------------------
>
>[ . . . ]
>
>To make your site search engine-friendly is pretty simple:
>1) Be what your audience is looking for (ie have good content)
>
>2) Make sure that the SE spider can understand what your content is
>about
>     by parsing the text. So mark everything up with semantic HTML (ie
>

>     rather than 
), make sure that your pages have
>clear,
>     simple titles which say what the page is about, alt-text every image
>apart from
>     spacers.
>
>3) Pursuade people to link to your site (does wonders for the Google
>ranking)
>
>4) Don't, don't, don't feed content to the SE which users can't see.
>This includes
>     text the same colour as the background and server-side tricks (known
>as cloaking).
>     These things *will* get you removed from SE indices.
>
>Cheers
>Martin

-- 
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Thu Nov 22 11:23:59 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Thu Nov 22 11:23:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
Message-ID: 

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

It's a matter of short-term -v- long-term. Is this short-term piece of work
worth the long-term damage to your reputation of doing bad work?
Can you get out of the short-term situation without damaging your
long-term relationship with the client?

If on the balance of all this, you still end up doing the work, make
damned sure you get it in writing. While the legal duty of care for
accessibility is on the provider (ie your client), not the contracter
who did the work (ie you), you need to protect yourself against
secondary litigation (ie client tries to sue you for work you did under
protest because they've been sued).

Get it in writing that you've advised them of the issues and their
request causes xyz, and that they recognise your advice and choose
not to take it. They *have* to take the responsibility.

Also, ensure that amending the code to provide this non-standard
behaviour is client-chargeable.

Of course, the panacea is that you get to a partnership state where
they recognise that you do know whereof you speak and will trust
your recommendations, as long as it doesn't cost *too* much
money.

Cheers
Martin



To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  RE: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
      images


Lemur - yeh i know abotu defautl browsers - always program for browser
defaults - but if the client does specify something (even after we have
informed them that this is going to change the way a majority will view)
you
have to please them

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of the head lemur
Sent: 22 November 2001 17:00
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
images



Bottom Line:
The further away from default browser behaviours you go, the smaller your
clients opportunities to save money on support, or to increase sales.



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
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From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Thu Nov 22 11:27:18 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Thu Nov 22 11:27:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Martin,
	 cheer for all the advice - we have discussed with the client and they
realise that it shouldn't be done.


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of
martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com
Sent: 22 November 2001 17:23
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
images



Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

It's a matter of short-term -v- long-term. Is this short-term piece of work
worth the long-term damage to your reputation of doing bad work?
Can you get out of the short-term situation without damaging your
long-term relationship with the client?

If on the balance of all this, you still end up doing the work, make
damned sure you get it in writing. While the legal duty of care for
accessibility is on the provider (ie your client), not the contracter
who did the work (ie you), you need to protect yourself against
secondary litigation (ie client tries to sue you for work you did under
protest because they've been sued).

Get it in writing that you've advised them of the issues and their
request causes xyz, and that they recognise your advice and choose
not to take it. They *have* to take the responsibility.

Also, ensure that amending the code to provide this non-standard
behaviour is client-chargeable.

Of course, the panacea is that you get to a partnership state where
they recognise that you do know whereof you speak and will trust
your recommendations, as long as it doesn't cost *too* much
money.

Cheers
Martin



To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  RE: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
      images


Lemur - yeh i know abotu defautl browsers - always program for browser
defaults - but if the client does specify something (even after we have
informed them that this is going to change the way a majority will view)
you
have to please them

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of the head lemur
Sent: 22 November 2001 17:00
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
images



Bottom Line:
The further away from default browser behaviours you go, the smaller your
clients opportunities to save money on support, or to increase sales.



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.


---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
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From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com  Thu Nov 22 11:31:10 2001
From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Thu Nov 22 11:31:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
  images
In-Reply-To: 
References: <00cd01c17377$21f9b540$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011122092335.04465980@mail.midtown.net>

Paul,

Yeah, I know it's a tough spot to be in. I'm sure all of us are stuck doing 
things we don't agree with.

I've had a couple of clients be insistent on things that I've clearly 
advised them is against their best interest, and to such an extent that I 
knew it would damage their sales, their site visitors, accessibility 
issues, etc. In those cases I asked them to sign a disclaimer that I've 
explained these things to them and they understand the ramifications of 
moving forward on what they wish to do. Neither of them went ahead and 
signed the disclaimer and went forward.

That may be a drastic thing, and I actually had no idea the first time that 
it would make such an impact on them changing their minds, but it did. And 
it was done in a very friendly, understanding way, too.

Sometimes people get on these ideas like a moving freight train and there's 
no stopping them, and they just don't listen to any kind of reason.

Warmly,
Shirley

At 09:08 AM 11/22/2001, you wrote:
>Lemur - yeh i know abotu defautl browsers - always program for browser
>defaults - but if the client does specify something (even after we have
>informed them that this is going to change the way a majority will view) you
>have to please them
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of the head lemur
>Sent: 22 November 2001 17:00
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
>images
>
>
>
>
> > does anyone know how to get rid of the white dotted line on images that
>are
> > clickable when you click on them in IE - i need some sort of code for it -
>a
> > customer doesn't like it - i tried to explain thats its just the way it
>is -
>
>Since you are building the client a website, we can assume a baseline greed
>factor. Management is looking to make more money. This is normal.  A website
>is a cost effective medium to do this. They are looking to increase sales
>and/or reduce their overhead in support for their products/services.
>
>The short snappy answer is to load Netscape on his machine.
>
>What part of accessibility is your client having a problem with?
>The legal ramifications of Section 508 in the US, the Disability
>Discrimination Act in the UK, and others? The white dotted line is an
>accessibility "feature". It may not be the best implementation, but there
>you go.
>
>Is his product/service one that will only have applicability to broadband
>connected, college educated, white folks who earn in excess of $80,000 bucks
>a year?
>
>Changing 'Default' browser behaviours is dangerous, for a number of reasons.
>Over half the folks on the web have been here less than 12 months, use it
>less than 10 hours a month, and will not spend a lot of time on sites that
>don't work.
>
>You usually end up creating a scripted solution that works in only one
>browser, necessitating  multiple versions, @import tricks, and if the
>'features' are disabled on the visitor end, such as turning off javascript,
>activeX, java, if the visitor has enabled their own style sheet, or if they
>are using any other browser, all of your solution is down the drain.
>
>Bottom Line:
>The further away from default browser behaviours you go, the smaller your
>clients opportunities to save money on support, or to increase sales.
>
>the head lemur
>Web Standards
>http://www.webstandards.org
>Evolt
>http://www.evolt.org
>lemurzone
>http://www.lemurzone.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

-- 
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html




From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com  Thu Nov 22 11:36:22 2001
From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Thu Nov 22 11:36:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
  images
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011122093211.04531da0@mail.midtown.net>

Paul,

Ah, I see you were writing a response to Martin as I writing a response I 
just sent. I'm glad this all worked out OK. Martin was correct about 
getting these changes in writing, too. That's exactly why I had written up 
disclaimers for my clients to sign, too. I wasn't about to take 
responsibility for those things and wanted it in writing that it was their 
decision, not mine, and that they'd chosen to go against my recommendations.

So I'm glad this worked out. Sometimes it takes situations like this to 
show people that you know your stuff, too. :-)

Warmly,
Shirley
--
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html

At 09:26 AM 11/22/2001, you wrote:
>Martin,
>         cheer for all the advice - we have discussed with the client and they
>realise that it shouldn't be done.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of
>martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com
>Sent: 22 November 2001 17:23
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: RE: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
>images
>
>
>
>Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers
>
>-------------------- Start of message text --------------------
>
>It's a matter of short-term -v- long-term. Is this short-term piece of work
>worth the long-term damage to your reputation of doing bad work?
>Can you get out of the short-term situation without damaging your
>long-term relationship with the client?
>
>If on the balance of all this, you still end up doing the work, make
>damned sure you get it in writing. While the legal duty of care for
>accessibility is on the provider (ie your client), not the contracter
>who did the work (ie you), you need to protect yourself against
>secondary litigation (ie client tries to sue you for work you did under
>protest because they've been sued).
>
>Get it in writing that you've advised them of the issues and their
>request causes xyz, and that they recognise your advice and choose
>not to take it. They *have* to take the responsibility.
>
>Also, ensure that amending the code to provide this non-standard
>behaviour is client-chargeable.
>
>Of course, the panacea is that you get to a partnership state where
>they recognise that you do know whereof you speak and will trust
>your recommendations, as long as it doesn't cost *too* much
>money.
>
>Cheers
>Martin
>
>
>
>To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
>cc:
>
>
>Subject:  RE: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
>       images
>
>
>Lemur - yeh i know abotu defautl browsers - always program for browser
>defaults - but if the client does specify something (even after we have
>informed them that this is going to change the way a majority will view)
>you
>have to please them
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of the head lemur
>Sent: 22 November 2001 17:00
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
>images
>
>
>
>Bottom Line:
>The further away from default browser behaviours you go, the smaller your
>clients opportunities to save money on support, or to increase sales.

-- 




From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Nov 22 11:36:29 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Nov 22 11:36:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
Message-ID: <01c1737c$38703060$e350149a@rudy>

> I think you're right, Kristina, but it's pretty much covered
> under the FQAs of "Don't" and "Because it's evil"

martin, i think to be fair to the folks on thelist, i had better publish
the url

   Frequent Questions Answered
   http://rudy.ca/fqa.html


**NOTE**  i am in the midst of a site redesign

still playing with the style sheet

the above page will eventually be known as fqa.cfm

some of the site links may not work, but the FQA links all do

i.e. the FQA content is okay, i'm just trying to fit the page into my site
while at the same time redesigning my navigation, etc.

critique of the redesign welcomed (yes, i know it looks like crap in
netscape 4, that's what i'm playing with, trying to tweak the style sheet
to make the page more consistent with the way it looks in the later,
standards-capable  browsers)

contributions to the FQAs encouraged


rudy






From persist1 at io.com  Thu Nov 22 11:39:59 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Thu Nov 22 11:39:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
In-Reply-To: <00cd01c17377$21f9b540$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, the head lemur wrote:

> Since you are building the client a website, we can assume a baseline greed
> factor. Management is looking to make more money. This is normal.  A website
> is a cost effective medium to do this. They are looking to increase sales
> and/or reduce their overhead in support for their products/services.
>
> The short snappy answer is to load Netscape on his machine.

Muahahaha!

> What part of accessibility is your client having a problem with?
> The legal ramifications of Section 508 in the US, the Disability
> Discrimination Act in the UK, and others? The white dotted line is an
> accessibility "feature". It may not be the best implementation, but there
> you go.

I remember an article that ran on the site, written by Erika, in which she
pointed out the hassles involved in trying to explain to an idiot that
"no, the opportunity cost for duplicating Behavior X (which is default in
Browser A) in Browser B (where it is not a default behavior) is too high."

What we're dealing with here is similar.

I have to admit that I was unnerved by the dotted border when I first
started using IE.  Now I'm uncomfortable with Netscape 4 because it's not
there.

One might find a way to politely but directly remind the client that
the vast majority of users will be accustomed to this behavior, and will
find something remiss if it's not there on his site.  *grin*

> Is his product/service one that will only have applicability to broadband
> connected, college educated, white folks who earn in excess of $80,000 bucks
> a year?
>
> Changing 'Default' browser behaviours is dangerous, for a number of reasons.
> Over half the folks on the web have been here less than 12 months, use it
> less than 10 hours a month, and will not spend a lot of time on sites that
> don't work.
>
> You usually end up creating a scripted solution that works in only one
> browser, necessitating  multiple versions, @import tricks, and if the
> 'features' are disabled on the visitor end, such as turning off javascript,
> activeX, java, if the visitor has enabled their own style sheet, or if they
> are using any other browser, all of your solution is down the drain.

While the problem of disabled features is not one I've encountered much,
it's always a good idea to design for the eventuality since doing so is
also the first and best step one can make toward creating an index-able
and accessible site.

What stands out here (in Alan's comments) is the bit in regard to '@import
tricks' - I understand where he's coming from, but it's also occurring to
me that CSS support in Netscape 4 is so awfully, horribly broken that it
might well be a great idea to simply use those tricks to give Netscape 4
users a vanilla presentation.  But I've made that point here before...

> Bottom Line:
> The further away from default browser behaviours you go, the smaller your
> clients opportunities to save money on support, or to increase sales.

That's about right.  I don't have a problem with a client who wants to be
the creative director (within reason).  But I remind them that the more
far-out their requests, the more expensive the final tab on the project.


-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Thu Nov 22 11:56:01 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Thu Nov 22 11:56:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
Message-ID: 

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------



To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:  Re: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
      images

>I don't have a problem with a client who wants to be
>the creative director (within reason).  But I remind them that the more
>far-out their requests,

...and the later they make them

>the more expensive the final tab on the project.

if (budget == 'fixed') {
     scope = 'fixed'
}
while (project) {
     if (scopeChanges != null) {
          renegotiate (budget)
     }}

Cheers
Martin


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From David at softv.net  Thu Nov 22 11:57:52 2001
From: David at softv.net (David at softv.net)
Date: Thu Nov 22 11:57:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Java/J++, general programming question
Message-ID: <439FDCB7FFC8D311AE5E006008909CBB7C7557@IMAIL>

Tim,

I agree with the others who replied to your post. MS Visual J++ is a
dead piece of technology (using the term very loosely). It uses a
Microsoft implementation of Java that, among other things, clobbers
Java's platform independent nature. 
If anyone wants to learn Java then I suggest staying away from all the
fancy GUI apps and use Sun's JDK instead. I'm in the process of
rewriting an application that was originally written with Visual J++
but won't run when used with Netscape (it works fine in IE, of
course....Go figure)

Dave




From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Thu Nov 22 12:04:38 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Thu Nov 22 12:04:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

To everyone:

looks like we've got interesting debate here - many thanks to everyone -
your comments have been wicked.
The client in question (not trying to be nasty here) has about as much web
sense as a salmon trying to jump its way into a bears mouth - funny to watch
but such a waste!

the site is supposed to be quick and specifically aimed at modem users - i
was happy with this, done sites for these circumstances loads of times,
BUT - the design i was given and the image spec supplied by the client was
hysterical - i took one look and then cracked up...animations everywhere,
graphically heavy images, fancy fades - curves - not a chance, but its
agreed (as you pointed out martin), i programmed the site as the client
wished with the understanding that any changes to the site after
completetion will be re-costed (cant remember the exact wording - but
basically if it fails to load quick on a modem because of the design then we
get paid more to sort it out for them) - and believe me - on testing it
takes almost 30 seconds per page to load - and thats the best i can do for
it.
I started sacrificing image quality, but i knew the outcome would be
terrible - so re-design (by our designers this time) and re-develop - and
the client appologised for not listening to us in the first place - which
was nice.

cheers again everyone

paul







From joel at spinhead.com  Thu Nov 22 12:23:42 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Thu Nov 22 12:23:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <001101c17382$e4a20290$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

What a great success story. Paul, you might consider composing the whole
experience into an article for evolt.org. Between the negotiating
tactics you used with the client and the various comments posted this
morning, I'll bet it could be distilled into a pretty useful case study.

joel

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Paul Backhouse
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 10:04 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable
images


To everyone:

looks like we've got interesting debate here - many thanks to everyone -
your comments have been wicked. The client in question (not trying to be
nasty here) has about as much web sense as a salmon trying to jump its
way into a bears mouth - funny to watch but such a waste!

the site is supposed to be quick and specifically aimed at modem users -
i was happy with this, done sites for these circumstances loads of
times, BUT - the design i was given and the image spec supplied by the
client was hysterical - i took one look and then cracked up...animations
everywhere, graphically heavy images, fancy fades - curves - not a
chance, but its agreed (as you pointed out martin), i programmed the
site as the client wished with the understanding that any changes to the
site after completetion will be re-costed (cant remember the exact
wording - but basically if it fails to load quick on a modem because of
the design then we get paid more to sort it out for them) - and believe
me - on testing it takes almost 30 seconds per page to load - and thats
the best i can do for it. I started sacrificing image quality, but i
knew the outcome would be terrible - so re-design (by our designers this
time) and re-develop - and the client appologised for not listening to
us in the first place - which was nice.

cheers again everyone

paul





---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Thu Nov 22 12:37:26 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Thu Nov 22 12:37:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] Using my graphics
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011122121717.01b76738@redhotsweeps.com>

Hello all

I have someone using my graphics on a message board on another site.   I 
searched the net and found some code that is supposed to fix this.

RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} !^$
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} !^http://redhotsweeps.com/.*$ [NC]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} !^http://www.redhotsweeps.com/.*$ [NC]
RewriteRule .*\.(gif|GIF|jpg|JPG|zip|ZIP|png|PNG|swf|SWF)$ - [F]

However, it is not working correctly.  Does anyone see anything wrong?  I 
put this in a .htaccess file and put it in my images directory.

Chris




From joel at spinhead.com  Thu Nov 22 12:48:51 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Thu Nov 22 12:48:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Oledb connection problem with Access XP - renewed
In-Reply-To: <001001c17377$afb17670$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>
Message-ID: <001201c17386$7f1cf2a0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

Hey, look! I can reply to my own post!

The primary reason I was trying the oledb driver again (after failing to
make it work a month ago) was that it was recommended to avoid this
error

Error Type:
Provider (0x80004005)
Unspecified error
/issimo/ins_prods_response.asp, line 14

Which I'm STILL getting. Any more ideas?

Is developing with Access really that much harder than SQL? I've been
working with SQL7/2000 for a year, and it's a dream. Access continually
frustrates me, but it's how this project needs to work.

Thanks again for the continued support.

joel

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Joel D Canfield
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 9:04 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Oledb connection problem with Access XP


Ouch! That should have been obvious. I think the traditional response
is, "I need more sleep."

Thanks!

joel

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of darren
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 8:51 AM
To: thelist
Subject: Re: [thelist] Oledb connection problem with Access XP


On 22 November 2001 at 16:36:37, Joel D Canfield 
wrote:

JDC> Any idea why this code:

JDC>      Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
JDC>      objConn = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data
JDC> Source=c:\Inetpub\wwwroot\issimo\issimo.mdb"

JDC>      strQuery="SELECT * FROM products"

JDC>      Set InsProduct = objConn.Execute(strQuery)

JDC> begets this error?

cos you're trying to set your db connect to your connection string.  try

   objConn.Open ("Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data
                 Source=c:\Inetpub\wwwroot\issimo\issimo.mdb")

hth,

darren



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From lordcutter at telocity.com  Thu Nov 22 12:54:05 2001
From: lordcutter at telocity.com (Cameron McCormick)
Date: Thu Nov 22 12:54:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Using my graphics
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011122121717.01b76738@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <011a01c17386$a677de50$0801a8c0@fireball>

Having someone steal your graphics is never good, while I cannot comment on
the .htaccess I can offer another solution, make a script to change your
graphics filenames in your html(or other documents) and cron it for one
hour, that would make someone need to change the name every hour, and make
posting to a message board useless, as a bonus you could make it change
another graphic to the old filenames, something the same size that says "Im
an ass that steals graphics" would be nice ;)

Cameron




From crsaila at yahoo.ca  Thu Nov 22 12:57:30 2001
From: crsaila at yahoo.ca (Craig Saila)
Date: Thu Nov 22 12:57:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] [Fwd: mozilla.org releases Mozilla 0.9.6]
References: <3BFC03E9.5070101@nc.rr.com> <3BFC053C.2080605@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3BFD4AE3.30904@yahoo.ca>

Daniel J. Cody wrote:

> Mirrored on browsers.evolt.org too if the mozilla.org FTP servers are 
> slow.. http://browsers.evolt.org/index.cfm/dir/mozilla/mozilla_0.9.6/
> 
> (been using it all day, and as usual, very snappy, much improved)

I was looking forward to the new release, but its seems there was some 
weirdness inserted into it in regards to dHTML. Any sites using 
high-level DOM and CSS stuff seemed to crash it (occasionally dramatically).
e.g.:
Stuff under:

my own site (try the nav):

Both of the above worked fine under Mozilla 0.9.6 and in IE 5 & 6/

Has any other Mozilla 0.9.6 person experienced this?
-- 
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com  :  http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Thu Nov 22 13:11:20 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Thu Nov 22 13:11:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Using my graphics
In-Reply-To: <011a01c17386$a677de50$0801a8c0@fireball>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011122121717.01b76738@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011122130902.00ba83b0@redhotsweeps.com>

While this is true, it won't work for me.  The graphic in question is used 
in my forums and they are using it in another.

I just got off the phone with my support people and they gave me some 
working code.

AuthUserFile /dev/null
AuthGroupFile /dev/null
RewriteEngine On
RewriteOptions inherit
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} !^http://.*redhotsweeps.com/.*$ [NC]
RewriteRule .*[Jj][Pp][Gg]$|.*[Gg][Ii][Ff]$ http://www.redhotsweeps.com/ [R,L]

Chris

At 12:51 PM 11/22/2001, you wrote:
>Having someone steal your graphics is never good, while I cannot comment on
>the .htaccess I can offer another solution, make a script to change your
>graphics filenames in your html(or other documents) and cron it for one
>hour, that would make someone need to change the name every hour, and make
>posting to a message board useless, as a bonus you could make it change
>another graphic to the old filenames, something the same size that says "Im
>an ass that steals graphics" would be nice ;)
>
>Cameron
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From kim at payment4webmasters.com  Thu Nov 22 13:27:31 2001
From: kim at payment4webmasters.com (Kim Hjortholm)
Date: Thu Nov 22 13:27:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: TARGET="_blank"
In-Reply-To: <20011122170153.81568C045@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: 


What are your opinions on opening links in new windows? Do you use them?
.......
Personally, I add links to new windows if they are amid content that I
want the user to come back to immediately. If it is on a "Links" page or
something similar, I will have the link open in the same window, since
the user is apparently ready to leave the site. Lately, I have been
adding more warnings if I think users may get confused otherwise.


My take:

Internal links in the same window, external link in new window
- you want to keep a visitor on your site as long as possible,
with a new window for external links and thus a window open with
your site the chance to regain the users attention on your website is greater 
("out of sight - out of mind")

As a user I think warnings is disturbing (my thinking goes something like 
....  I clicked the link, so yes I do want to visit this page !)

anyway,

I think consistency in "window-behaviour" is a must, so either all external links
open in new window or in the same window.

regards

Kim Hjortholm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 *** Colorpalettes *** Websafecolors *** Colorlayout ***
Get  colors4webmasters for FREE at http://www.colors4webmasters.com 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From kim at payment4webmasters.com  Thu Nov 22 13:39:40 2001
From: kim at payment4webmasters.com (Kim Hjortholm)
Date: Thu Nov 22 13:39:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <20011122145456.A0D9051F66@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: 


What are all the things I need to do to a Web site in order to make it
palatable to Search engines?

How do I go about getting into search engines without paying money?

Is there a quick and easy way?


No quick and easy way, but it' possible without paying money

Assuming you have your content right you need to work with your Pagedesign and
the wording on them, e.g. optimize/"regulate" the wording/text on your pages for specific search
terms

See result belows for one of my sites www.colors4webmasters.com

http://www.google.com/search?q=free+colorpicker #1
http://www.altavista.com/sites/search/web?q=free+colorpicker&kl=XX&search=Search #1
http://search.lycos.com/main/default.asp?lpv=1&loc=searchhp&query=free+colorpicker #1
http://search.lycos.com/main/default.asp?lpv=1&loc=searchbox&query=websafe+colors #4
http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?pg=q&what=web&fmt=.&q=websafe+colors #3
http://www.northernlight.com/nlquery.fcg?cb=0&qr=free+colorpicker&si= #1
http://www.northernlight.com/nlquery.fcg?cb=0&&qr=websafe+colors #3

It's no coincidence, but result of precise tuning;

I can highly recommend the ebook "Make your sitesell" - http://www.sitesell.com/showme.html
beside for teaching you how to make your site sell (whatever it sells) better, it comes with a bonus
ebook
that teaches you how to tune a website in order to get targeted traffic from searchengines

regards

Kim Hjortholm
New Beginnings, Denmark
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 *** Colorpalettes *** Websafecolors *** Colorlayout ***
Get  colors4webmasters for FREE at http://www.colors4webmasters.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




From sskulic at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 22 13:41:50 2001
From: sskulic at yahoo.com (Sasa Kulic)
Date: Thu Nov 22 13:41:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Caché
Message-ID: <20011122194156.73233.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello everybody,

Does anybody here have any experience with Cach?
Technology?
URL: http://www.intersystems.com/

If yes, happy, not happy, big thing,...?

Thanks



=====
-------------------------------------
Sasa Kulic
http://www.sashadesign.com/
http://www.cluedesign.com/
-------------------------------------

_______________________________________________________
Build your own website in minutes and for free at http://ca.geocities.com



From navin_dhanuka at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 22 13:51:30 2001
From: navin_dhanuka at yahoo.com (Navin Dhanuka)
Date: Thu Nov 22 13:51:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT] - mysql dbt.
References: <20011122192750.F340B949@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <002f01c1738e$6fc694c0$1c00005a@redhat>

I cannot understand why we require "-
(RIGHT(CURRENT_DATE,5) SELECT name, birth, CURRENT_DATE,
    -> (YEAR(CURRENT_DATE)-YEAR(birth))
    -> - (RIGHT(CURRENT_DATE,5) AS age
    -> FROM pet;
+----------+------------+--------------+------+
| name     | birth      | CURRENT_DATE | age  |
+----------+------------+--------------+------+
| Fluffy   | 1993-02-04 | 2001-08-29   |    8 |
| Claws    | 1994-03-17 | 2001-08-29   |    7 |
| Buffy    | 1989-05-13 | 2001-08-29   |   12 |
| Fang     | 1990-08-27 | 2001-08-29   |   11 |
| Bowser   | 1989-08-31 | 2001-08-29   |   11 |
| Chirpy   | 1998-09-11 | 2001-08-29   |    2 |
| Whistler | 1997-12-09 | 2001-08-29   |    3 |
| Slim     | 1996-04-29 | 2001-08-29   |    5 |
| Puffball | 1999-03-30 | 2001-08-29   |    2 |
+----------+------------+--------------+------+




The manual says,
MySQL provides several functions that you can use to perform calculations on
dates, for example, to calculate ages or extract parts of dates.

To determine how many years old each of your pets is, compute the difference
in the year part of the current date and the birth date, then subtract one
if the current date occurs earlier in the calendar year than the birth date.
The following query shows, for each pet, the birth date, the current date,
and the age in years.



_________________________________________________________
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From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Nov 22 14:02:31 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Nov 22 14:02:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT] - mysql dbt.
Message-ID: <01c17390$a789df00$e350149a@rudy>

> I cannot understand why we require
>  " -  (RIGHT(CURRENT_DATE,5) and what it does.

hi navin

the "<" is a comparison

it will evaluate as either 1 or 0 (true or false)

1 if today's month/day is less than the birthday month/day, otherwise 0

so first you subtract years to get a number for the age, but then you
have to subtract 1 if the birthday hasn't arrived yet *in this year*

the answer was pretty much right there in the excerpt you gave from the
manual --

> To determine how many years old each of your pets is, compute the
> difference in the year part of the current date and the birth date, then
> subtract one if the current date occurs earlier in the calendar year than
> the birth date.

rudy






From webguru at vsnl.net  Thu Nov 22 14:13:50 2001
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Thu Nov 22 14:13:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] More innovative ads
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011123014322.032bea60@203.197.12.4>

I encountered yet another annoying ad type today. If Big Freaking Flash ads 
weren't enough, the New York times is now playing video with sound on their 
site. Check out this article at: 
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/20/arts/20SOTH.html

You start reading the article and suddenly a voice starts speaking, and a 
trailer for the movie Lord of the rings starts playing. Stop, damn it! I 
came to read the article, not watch a movie trailer.

Regards,

Madhu


<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net

Weblog: http://madman.weblogs.com




From adam at hallinteractive.com  Thu Nov 22 14:26:42 2001
From: adam at hallinteractive.com (Adam)
Date: Thu Nov 22 14:26:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Using my graphics
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011122130902.00ba83b0@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: 

hello
I'm curious
What is it exactly that this code is doing? and where do you put it? Is this
a server admin kinda thing?
Adzo

> 
> AuthUserFile /dev/null
> AuthGroupFile /dev/null
> RewriteEngine On
> RewriteOptions inherit
> RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} !^http://.*redhotsweeps.com/.*$ [NC]
> RewriteRule .*[Jj][Pp][Gg]$|.*[Gg][Ii][Ff]$ http://www.redhotsweeps.com/ [R,L]
> 


dreamweaver's find and replace function saved me hours of work. I made 3
changes alts to multiple lines of source in 60 documents, in 5 mins.
so use it!





From laren4 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 22 14:58:01 2001
From: laren4 at yahoo.com (iris)
Date: Thu Nov 22 14:58:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: TARGET="_blank"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20011122205808.94313.qmail@web9806.mail.yahoo.com>

i usually don't use target="_blank" because it
confuses newbies and people with disabilities, esp.
visual impairment.  veterans will know how to make the
decision themselves.

however, one site i'm working on contains a kind of
online course with some external links.  users might
want to have the course in one window and the external
site in another to switch back and forth easily.  

i code the text link normally, to open in the same
window, and put a small double window icon right
behind the text link with a tooltip and alt text "open
link in new window".  the icon is also explained in
the sidebar where the TOC links are (or will be once
the site is finished).

iris



=====
_____________________
omnia mea mecum porto

biz:http://www.jarmin.com/
fun:http://www.transtribal.org/
_______________________________

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
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From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Thu Nov 22 15:30:11 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Thu Nov 22 15:30:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Using my graphics
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011122130902.00ba83b0@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011122152744.01d97048@redhotsweeps.com>

The code prevents people from linking to your graphics from another 
site.  Simply put this into a text file, save it as .htaccess and upload to 
your images directory.  Should prevent people from stealing your 
bandwidth.  As for the exact details on what each line does, I'll have to 
leave that to one of the smarter members on the list.

Chris

At 02:26 PM 11/22/2001, you wrote:
>hello
>I'm curious
>What is it exactly that this code is doing? and where do you put it? Is this
>a server admin kinda thing?
>Adzo
>
> >
> > AuthUserFile /dev/null
> > AuthGroupFile /dev/null
> > RewriteEngine On
> > RewriteOptions inherit
> > RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} !^http://.*redhotsweeps.com/.*$ [NC]
> > RewriteRule .*[Jj][Pp][Gg]$|.*[Gg][Ii][Ff]$ 
> http://www.redhotsweeps.com/ [R,L]
> >




From isaac at members.evolt.org  Thu Nov 22 16:35:25 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Thu Nov 22 16:35:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] More innovative ads
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011123014322.032bea60@203.197.12.4>
Message-ID: 


> You start reading the article and suddenly a voice starts speaking, and a
> trailer for the movie Lord of the rings starts playing. Stop, damn it! I
> came to read the article, not watch a movie trailer.

As must as I love LoTR, this form of advertising is hardly wonderful news
for people who pay a lot for excess data usage (in Australia, it's generally
18-25c/MB).


isaac

--------------------------------------------------------------
triple zero digital | upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067
(08)83320545 | www.triplezero.com.au | isaac at triplezero.com.au




From web at master.gen.in.us  Thu Nov 22 16:56:07 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Thu Nov 22 16:56:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Targeting CGI output to a window
Message-ID: <3BFD3CD2.13994.D798D52@localhost>

The instructions seem to be pretty clearcut.  If you want to have a 
form in one frame output to a different frame, you add a header
indicating the frame to be targeted.

But I have two frames in the frameset. The form is in window A, and I 
want output to go in window B. 

The CGI named in the "action" of "form" sends out these headers.
Content-type: text/html\nWindow-target: B\n\n"

But the output of the CGI ends up in A instead of B.   
What am I missing here?

deke




*Any great truth can -- and eventually will -- be expressed as a cliche
-- a cliche is a sure and certain way to dilute an idea. For instance,
my grandmother used to say, "The black cat is always the last one off
the fence." I have no idea what she meant, but at one time, it was
undoubtedly true. --
                       Solomon Short



From eol1 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 22 18:20:17 2001
From: eol1 at yahoo.com (Eöl)
Date: Thu Nov 22 18:20:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] [Fwd: mozilla.org releases Mozilla 0.9.6]
In-Reply-To: <3BFD4AE3.30904@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <20011123002024.67887.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com>

Craig,

Yep, www.saila.com kills it rather completely (my
mozilla.exe process just completely died).  Died with
an pure virtual error, VC++ something.  You should
report that to bugzilla.mozilla.org

E?l

--- Craig Saila  wrote:
> Daniel J. Cody wrote:
> 
> > Mirrored on browsers.evolt.org too if the
> mozilla.org FTP servers are 
> > slow..
>
http://browsers.evolt.org/index.cfm/dir/mozilla/mozilla_0.9.6/
> > 
> > (been using it all day, and as usual, very snappy,
> much improved)
> 
> I was looking forward to the new release, but its
> seems there was some 
> weirdness inserted into it in regards to dHTML. Any
> sites using 
> high-level DOM and CSS stuff seemed to crash it
> (occasionally dramatically).
> e.g.:
> Stuff under:
> 
> my own site (try the nav):
> 
> Both of the above worked fine under Mozilla 0.9.6
> and in IE 5 & 6/
> 
> Has any other Mozilla 0.9.6 person experienced this?
> -- 
> Cheers,
> 
> Craig Saila
> ------------------------------------------
> craig at saila.com  :  http://www.saila.com/
> ------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>
_________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
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From km at km.com.au  Thu Nov 22 18:27:09 2001
From: km at km.com.au (Kelvin Markham)
Date: Thu Nov 22 18:27:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Last line of paragraph has 'deeper' line break - why?
References: <20011122132223.42572.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3BFD9AA2.B3228F90@km.com.au>

Thank you Robert and Martin,
for your very helpful solutions

KM

Robert Goodyear wrote:
> 
> Get rid of the whitespace between your  and the 
,
> thus:
> 
> hgkhghgjh jhgjhgjg jhgjgjhg.

> 
> The unstyled text (blank spaces) are pushing open your line
> height.
> 
> /rg
> 
> --- Kelvin Markham  wrote:
> > Page produced in Frontpage 2000, browsers Netscape 4.7 and/or
> > Explorer
> > 5.5
> >
> > normal old text entry in webpage looks like this;
> > 
Devonport is gateway to Cradle
> > Mountain
> > National Park and other wilderness attractions. Marketed in
> > conjunction
> > with Devonport City, the Australian
> > Tourist Commission and the Cruising Down Under Association, a
> > variety of
> > shore excursions have been developed to cater for the interests
> > of
> > cruise ship passengers.
> > 

> ...
> > the first three line breaks evenly space the lines from each
> > other but
> > the last one is about 20% MORE! The variation is more
> > pronounced when
> > the page is printed out. This seems to occur in lots of paras
> > on all
> > sorts of sites and there's nothing in the html code that seems
> > to cause
> > it.
> >
> > The baffling thing is that some paragraphs on the same page
> > still turn
> > out fine! If the problem occurred consistently there would be
> > some ryme
> > or reason indicated but it's got me stumped, does anyone know
> > how or why
> > this happens and is there a solution?
> >
> > KM
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
> http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Kelvin Markham			Ph 03 6228 5833				
20 Sunnyside Rd			Fx 03 6228 7355	
Newtown Tasmania 7008		Mob 0419 152 612

Email km at km.com.au      Websites: km.com.au 
				  salamanca.com.au



From pemberton_m at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 22 18:46:59 2001
From: pemberton_m at hotmail.com (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Thu Nov 22 18:46:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Targeting CGI output to a window
Message-ID: 

Your better of just putting "target=frameB" in the 
 tag.

>From: "deke " 
>Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: [thelist] Targeting CGI output to a window
>Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:58:42 -0500
>
>The instructions seem to be pretty clearcut.  If you want to have a
>form in one frame output to a different frame, you add a header
>indicating the frame to be targeted.
>
>But I have two frames in the frameset. The form is in window A, and I
>want output to go in window B.
>
>The CGI named in the "action" of "form" sends out these headers.
>Content-type: text/html\nWindow-target: B\n\n"
>
>But the output of the CGI ends up in A instead of B.
>What am I missing here?
>
>deke


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From netpaths at netpaths.net  Thu Nov 22 18:49:51 2001
From: netpaths at netpaths.net (netpaths at netpaths.net)
Date: Thu Nov 22 18:49:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: search engines
In-Reply-To: <20011122192751.0BA8F94B@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <1006476598.79986@netpaths.net>

Its generally true that by designing a basic site that favors text over graphics, good title and meta tags (in that order) and being well linked (both externally and internally)  you can have a good site.  One of the least known about requirements is the importance of cross linking.  Google has their page rank feature, which takes a sites link strategy into account. 




Search Engine Marketing and results tracking
http://netpaths.net



From jonhall at ozline.net  Thu Nov 22 19:27:52 2001
From: jonhall at ozline.net (Jon Hall)
Date: Thu Nov 22 19:27:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] [Fwd: mozilla.org releases Mozilla 0.9.6]
References: <20011123002024.67887.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3BFDA677.8090001@ozline.net>

Saila.com doesn't work in my IE6 either, but at least it doesn't crash, 
just throws an object expected error. The funny thing is does at least 
display in NS 4.76 but at the bottom of the front page there is a note 
telling me to upgrade to either IE 5.5+,  Mozilla, or NS6...

jon

E?l wrote:

>Craig,
>
>Yep, www.saila.com kills it rather completely (my
>mozilla.exe process just completely died).  Died with
>an pure virtual error, VC++ something.  You should
>report that to bugzilla.mozilla.org
>
>E?l
>
>--- Craig Saila  wrote:
>
>>Daniel J. Cody wrote:
>>
>>>Mirrored on browsers.evolt.org too if the
>>>
>>mozilla.org FTP servers are 
>>
>>>slow..
>>>
>http://browsers.evolt.org/index.cfm/dir/mozilla/mozilla_0.9.6/
>
>>>(been using it all day, and as usual, very snappy,
>>>
>>much improved)
>>
>>I was looking forward to the new release, but its
>>seems there was some 
>>weirdness inserted into it in regards to dHTML. Any
>>sites using 
>>high-level DOM and CSS stuff seemed to crash it
>>(occasionally dramatically).
>>e.g.:
>>Stuff under:
>>
>>my own site (try the nav):
>>
>>Both of the above worked fine under Mozilla 0.9.6
>>and in IE 5 & 6/
>>
>>Has any other Mozilla 0.9.6 person experienced this?
>>-- 
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Craig Saila
>>------------------------------------------
>>craig at saila.com  :  http://www.saila.com/
>>------------------------------------------
>>






From fox at digifox.org  Thu Nov 22 20:46:22 2001
From: fox at digifox.org (.fox)
Date: Thu Nov 22 20:46:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"
References: <000a01c17368$36eb7c40$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>
Message-ID: <009f01c173c9$810cb940$19927018@pr1.on.wave.home.com>

I hate this with a passion.

pdfs work completely independently of the browser on a Mac, and so if a pdf
"opens" in a new window, all it does is leave an annoying ghost window.
So the user has to close the pdf, AND the ghost window to get back to the
original page. Hate it.

(Yes, I know that most of the world doesn't care about Macs, but *I* care
about Macs enough for both of us!)

..
Jennifer
http://digifox.org
http://pffft.net


----- Original Message -----
From: Joel D Canfield 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 10:13 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"


On our corporate site, all PDFs open in a new window. We don't have very
many offsite links at the moment. Someone mentioned the idea of a
notice, or separate icons for new window/same window. Cool idea. If we
were to add links that we thought should open in a new window (besides
the PDFs) I'd implement one of those ideas.

joel at spinhead.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Paul Peterson
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:29 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"


Here's one for the polls...

What are your opinions on opening links in new windows? Do you use them?
If so, when do you feel is an appropriate/inappropriate instance? Do you
add warnings (e.g. "will open in a new window") or let the users figure
it out for themselves?

Personally, I add links to new windows if they are amid content that I
want the user to come back to immediately. If it is on a "Links" page or
something similar, I will have the link open in the same window, since
the user is apparently ready to leave the site. Lately, I have been
adding more warnings if I think users may get confused otherwise.

Looking forward to your thoughts.
Paul


---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 22 21:07:45 2001
From: tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Thu Nov 22 21:07:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] dedicated modem net access
In-Reply-To: <20011122192750.F340B949@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20011123030753.47169.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com>

Do any of the Australian list members know of any good,
cheap dedicated modem deals? My Dad pays for the internet,
and only wants dedicated modem, so he doesn't have to pay a
huge phone bill (no can't get broadband), but the Telstra
deal he has, while cheap, only gives 105 mb of download a
month, and then charges 18c per mb after that, which
presents a bit of a problem to me.


If when "playing around" with the windows registry you
manage to stuff it up bad enough, that Windows doesn't know
how to launch programs, and you therefore can't restore
your back-ups,  don't despair, remember this:
scheduled tasks is your friend.
If you add the program to your scheduled tasks it will run
as normal and you can restore your back-ups from there.


Scheduled tasks, isn't just for running disallowed programs
at school, after all.

Lachlan Cannon
{Luminosity}

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1



From joel at spinhead.com  Thu Nov 22 22:04:16 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Thu Nov 22 22:04:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"
In-Reply-To: <009f01c173c9$810cb940$19927018@pr1.on.wave.home.com>
Message-ID: <000001c173d4$150a92c0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

Wasn't aware of that. In our case, Macs make up less than 1% of our
traffic, so I'm not making any changes for now, but that's really useful
info. Thanks.

joel

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of .fox
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 6:50 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"


I hate this with a passion.

pdfs work completely independently of the browser on a Mac, and so if a
pdf "opens" in a new window, all it does is leave an annoying ghost
window. So the user has to close the pdf, AND the ghost window to get
back to the original page. Hate it.

(Yes, I know that most of the world doesn't care about Macs, but *I*
care about Macs enough for both of us!)

..
Jennifer
http://digifox.org
http://pffft.net


----- Original Message -----
From: Joel D Canfield 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 10:13 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"


On our corporate site, all PDFs open in a new window. We don't have very
many offsite links at the moment. Someone mentioned the idea of a
notice, or separate icons for new window/same window. Cool idea. If we
were to add links that we thought should open in a new window (besides
the PDFs) I'd implement one of those ideas.

joel at spinhead.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Paul Peterson
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:29 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"


Here's one for the polls...

What are your opinions on opening links in new windows? Do you use them?
If so, when do you feel is an appropriate/inappropriate instance? Do you
add warnings (e.g. "will open in a new window") or let the users figure
it out for themselves?

Personally, I add links to new windows if they are amid content that I
want the user to come back to immediately. If it is on a "Links" page or
something similar, I will have the link open in the same window, since
the user is apparently ready to leave the site. Lately, I have been
adding more warnings if I think users may get confused otherwise.

Looking forward to your thoughts.
Paul


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From isaac at members.evolt.org  Thu Nov 22 22:11:52 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Thu Nov 22 22:11:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] dedicated modem net access
In-Reply-To: <20011123030753.47169.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 


> Do any of the Australian list members know of any good,
> cheap dedicated modem deals? My Dad pays for the internet,
> and only wants dedicated modem, so he doesn't have to pay a
> huge phone bill (no can't get broadband), but the Telstra
> deal he has, while cheap, only gives 105 mb of download a
> month, and then charges 18c per mb after that, which
> presents a bit of a problem to me.

We had a couple of Optusnet accounts that were around $40/month. Data limit
is probably 250MB. I cancelled mine 6 or so months ago when we got ADSL at
the office, but for the year I did have it, it was reliable.

You might like to consider, though, that a dedicated line + dedicated modem
account = $22 + 40 = $60+. I think the consumer-level ADSL accounts are
probably only marginally more expensive and don't require the extra phone
line (you can get a splitter to enable you to share a single line). The
deciding factor may be the high setup cost with ADSL (the router and stuff
like that).

Beware: Once you've tasted ADSL, it's hard to go back to pitiful modem
speeds...


isaac

--------------------------------------------------------------
triple zero digital | upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067
(08)83320545 | www.triplezero.com.au | isaac at triplezero.com.au




From framar at interlog.com  Fri Nov 23 00:07:21 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Fri Nov 23 00:07:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS: Arg! Netscape 4.7 & site check.
Message-ID: 

Please checkup a beta mockup dressing for one of my apps at:

http://www.framarstudios.com/Debug/

I've got some roll over code that works just fine in every 4.x, 5.x 
browser 'cept for Netscape Navigator 4.7. It's driving me nuts! To 
wit:

document.images[imageID] has no properties.

There's also another factor that is driving me doowhacky! If you 
resize the page, it literally crumbles like sand at high tide. It 
disintegrates!

WTF is that?! (And do you know the fix?)

I also welcome any additional critiques you may have to offer. Be 
aware that no single link works.

Thanks.
-- 

Our best destiny, as planetary cohabitants, is the development
of what has been called "species consciousness" - something over
and above nationalisms, blocs, religions, ethnicities.


Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From web at master.gen.in.us  Fri Nov 23 02:22:38 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Fri Nov 23 02:22:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Targeting CGI output to a window
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3BFDC1AA.15540.1B685B9@localhost>

On 23 Nov 2001, at 11:47, Michael Pemberton posted a message which said:

> Your better of just putting "target=frameB" in the  tag.

Any idea which versions of what browsers support that?
It's not listed as an attribute of FORM in the HTML specification.

deke



*Any great truth can -- and eventually will -- be expressed as a cliche
-- a cliche is a sure and certain way to dilute an idea. For instance,
my grandmother used to say, "The black cat is always the last one off
the fence." I have no idea what she meant, but at one time, it was
undoubtedly true. --
                       Solomon Short



From web at master.gen.in.us  Fri Nov 23 02:44:21 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Fri Nov 23 02:44:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"
In-Reply-To: <000001c173d4$150a92c0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>
References: <009f01c173c9$810cb940$19927018@pr1.on.wave.home.com>
Message-ID: <3BFDC6C1.3873.1CA69D1@localhost>

On 22 Nov 2001, at 20:05, Joel D Canfield posted a message which said:

> Wasn't aware of that. In our case, Macs make up less than 1% of our
> traffic, so I'm not making any changes for now, but that's really useful
> info. Thanks.

For a lot of people, it works that way in Windows, too. 

Uh, would you consider conforming to RFC 1522 in this manner?

	1. Trim posts meaningfully, 
	2. Reply *below* that which you are replying to so that others 
could do the same?

It not only reduces the expense of participating in this list for people 
who have to pay by the minute to use the telephone line (common in 
places like UKofGB&NI) when they read your message, but would 
also have made it a lot easier for people reading followup mesages to 
figure out this has something to do with opening PDFs in a new 
window, which can leave an annoying ghost window, meaning the 
user has to close both Acroread AND the ghost window in order to 
get back to the original page. 

Thanks!

deke


*Any great truth can -- and eventually will -- be expressed as a cliche
-- a cliche is a sure and certain way to dilute an idea. For instance,
my grandmother used to say, "The black cat is always the last one off
the fence." I have no idea what she meant, but at one time, it was
undoubtedly true. --
                       Solomon Short



From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Fri Nov 23 03:55:18 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Fri Nov 23 03:55:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS: Arg! Netscape 4.7 & site check.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Frank - ah, the wonderful world of NS 4.7.
When i looked at the site i found:
>Training Programs
 >  Join us at our next Delta Training Preview Feb 14, 2002
 >  Upcoming Delta Preview Training Sessions
was under the input fields.

Not sure why the resize things happening - never seen that before - at a
guess id say its to do with the spans in the div maybe?

The rollover issue - hmmmm....got me stumped as well.
could just go back to basic rollover code, see if that sorts it out:



sorry couldn't be of more help.

cheers

paul


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Frank
Sent: 23 November 2001 06:07
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] JS: Arg! Netscape 4.7 & site check.



Please checkup a beta mockup dressing for one of my apps at:

http://www.framarstudios.com/Debug/

I've got some roll over code that works just fine in every 4.x, 5.x
browser 'cept for Netscape Navigator 4.7. It's driving me nuts! To
wit:

document.images[imageID] has no properties.

There's also another factor that is driving me doowhacky! If you
resize the page, it literally crumbles like sand at high tide. It
disintegrates!

WTF is that?! (And do you know the fix?)

I also welcome any additional critiques you may have to offer. Be
aware that no single link works.

Thanks.
--

Our best destiny, as planetary cohabitants, is the development
of what has been called "species consciousness" - something over
and above nationalisms, blocs, religions, ethnicities.


Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Fri Nov 23 04:21:09 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Fri Nov 23 04:21:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: search engines
Message-ID: 

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

However, it does count links within your site as part of its page
ranking, so if you have a big site, and each page carries links to
your most valuable content, each of those links counts.

Presumably this is to enable sites hosted on a shared domain
(eg Tripod, Angelfire etc) to be counted, but it does allow large
sites to self-promote.

Examples:
http://www.google.com/search?q=bad+robots
http://www.google.com/search?q=content+management+system

Note that the URL of the evolt articles linked (1st and 2nd in the
listing respectively) is
http://www.evolt.org/article/rating/whatever/whatever

That 'rating' is a marker to say that it's the link from the highest
rated articles in the evolt sidebar.

(also note that in the first example, the second result is the linked
printable version of the article - links off a highly linked page carry
more weight)

Cheers
Martin


To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:
Subject:  [thelist] Re: search engines


Its generally true that by designing a basic site that favors text over
graphics, good title and meta tags (in that order) and being well linked
(both externally and internally)  you can have a good site.  One of the
least known about requirements is the importance of cross linking.  Google
has their page rank feature, which takes a sites link strategy into
account.



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
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taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
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this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From peter at vardus.com  Fri Nov 23 04:46:01 2001
From: peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck)
Date: Fri Nov 23 04:46:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript guru wanted for small job
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011123103101.0407bdb8@mail.vardus.net>

Hi guys,
we need a javascript guru type for a small job, somewhere in the next two 
weeks.

What we need is a piece of javascript code (client side) that pulls of the 
server a banner, includig the surrounding HTML links. So we can set up a 
file or whatever that provides the html (something like ), 
the ONLY thing we need is the javascript (IE and NN) that pulls that of the 
server and displays that on the site. The goal of this is to serve banners 
on multiple websites with only having to add in a little code.

If you can send me a short how long you think this will take you, any 
questions on things that aren't clear or that maybe a problem, and how much 
it would cost to peter at vardus.com (An example of your experience in 
javascript would be good as well, a link or description maybe)
Thanks guys and girls!
Pete




From darren at web-bitch.co.uk  Fri Nov 23 05:09:06 2001
From: darren at web-bitch.co.uk (darren)
Date: Fri Nov 23 05:09:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Oledb connection problem with Access XP - renewed
In-Reply-To: <001201c17386$7f1cf2a0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>
References: <001201c17386$7f1cf2a0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>
Message-ID: <1505013288.20011123110906@web-bitch.co.uk>

On 22 November 2001 at 18:50:03, Joel D Canfield  wrote:

JDC> Hey, look! I can reply to my own post!

heh...never a good sign...

JDC> Which I'm STILL getting. Any more ideas?

not sure what's kicking up the error, but it may be that you're not
creating the recordset before the assignment....or are you??

the following code always works for me for sql strings:

      set objCon = Server.CreateObject ("ADODB.Connection")
      set objRc = Server.CreateObject ("ADODB.Recordset")
      objCon.Open
      objRc.CursorLocation = adUseServer
      objRc.Open strSQL, objCon, adOpenForwardOnly, , adCmdText

      if objRc.BOF and objRc.EOF then
         Response.Write "we got nuffin"
      else
         'get jiggy with the data
      end if

      objRc.Close
      objCon.Close
      set objRC = nothing
      set objCon = nothing

JDC> Is developing with Access really that much harder than SQL? I've been
JDC> working with SQL7/2000 for a year, and it's a dream. Access continually
JDC> frustrates me, but it's how this project needs to work.

there seem to be a *lot* more quirks when you're coding against access,
but for the most part it seems to go fine.  memos and blobs can be
problematic.

but it can't compare to sql2k, that's a *very* nice backend to play with!
:>

hth,

darren




From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Fri Nov 23 05:34:57 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Fri Nov 23 05:34:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS: Arg! Netscape 4.7 & site check.
References: 
Message-ID: <0ae101c17412$8deb0e70$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

Hi,
for your NS4 problems:
1) NS4 can't reference an images source by id, so each image you want to
change the source of needs ,name="Home" id="Home" .(7 images in your case)
2) id is not in capitals
3) NS4 regards a 
 which has an id to be a separate document, so you
have to step through the documents to reach your image, your roll-over
script should look like this (with the values hard-coded):

function imageChange(imageID,imageFile,imageID2,imageFile2) {
   if(document.layers){
      document.LinkImagesDiv.document.images[imageID].src = eval(imageFile +
".src");
      document.TagLineDiv.document.images[imageID2].src = eval(imageFile2 +
".src");
   }else{
      document.images[imageID].src = eval(imageFile + ".src");
      document.images[imageID2].src = eval(imageFile2 + ".src");
   }
}
(watch line-breaks)
The roll-over script could be a lot more compact - but it works ok.
4) NS4 has a well known resize-bug, consisting of two parts,
firstly, it's rendering of divs with CSS positioning breaks completely (as
opposed to if you used layers), when the browser is resized.
The solution for this is to reload the page when the browser's resize event
is fired, but the second bug is that the
resize event will also fire depending on whether scrollbars are showing or
not.
There is a standard script that you include in your page to counter these
bugs, the result is not elegant,
as the page reloads when you resize the browser, but it's the only simple
way to solve the problem. :

  //NS4 resize fix:
  NS4 = document.layers;
  if (NS4) {
        origWidth = innerWidth;
        origHeight = innerHeight;
     }
  function reDo() {
     if (innerWidth != origWidth || innerHeight != origHeight)
        location.reload();
  }
  if (NS4) onresize = reDo;


Aside from that the page looks nice, the code is well-laid out, if a little
verbose, and the color-scheme and design is quite appealing.
I guess all the roll-over stuff could be done with text/css - but you used
alt-tags and the page works without images/javascript, so that looks good.
There's quite a few minor syntax errors in there though. (capitalization
etc)

Cheers,
Richard.
www.richardinfo.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank" 
To: 
> Please checkup a beta mockup dressing for one of my apps at:
>
> http://www.framarstudios.com/Debug/
>
> I've got some roll over code that works just fine in every 4.x, 5.x
> browser 'cept for Netscape Navigator 4.7




From tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 23 06:01:47 2001
From: tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Fri Nov 23 06:01:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] dedicated modem net access
In-Reply-To: <20011123113525.EDDF595C@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20011123120158.97030.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com>

> You might like to consider, though, that a dedicated line
> + dedicated modem
> account = $22 + 40 = $60+. I think the consumer-level
> ADSL accounts are
> probably only marginally more expensive and don't require
> the extra phone
> line (you can get a splitter to enable you to share a
> single line). 

The only trouble being my exchnage hasn't been enabled yet,
nor are they planning to enable it anytime soon. I love
Telstra so very very much. Not only do they keep broadband
from taking off by charging so much for it, but they don't
even give half the people a decent chance to get it. It
doesn't even make sense to me, surely if they hired more
people, got the exchanges enabled sooner, and dropped the
prices, even just a little, they'd have so many extra ADSL
customers that they'd make the profist straight back up...

Lachlan Cannon
{Luminosity}

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1



From ed at edcourtenay.co.uk  Fri Nov 23 06:11:15 2001
From: ed at edcourtenay.co.uk (Ed Courtenay)
Date: Fri Nov 23 06:11:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] dedicated modem net access
In-Reply-To: <20011123120158.97030.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

Why is it that I get the feeling that if we substituted the name BT for
Telstra, this exact same rant could be applied to the UK? :)

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Lachlan Cannon
Sent: 23 November 2001 12:02
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] dedicated modem net access

The only trouble being my exchnage hasn't been enabled yet,
nor are they planning to enable it anytime soon. I love
Telstra so very very much. Not only do they keep broadband
from taking off by charging so much for it, but they don't
even give half the people a decent chance to get it. It
doesn't even make sense to me, surely if they hired more
people, got the exchanges enabled sooner, and dropped the
prices, even just a little, they'd have so many extra ADSL
customers that they'd make the profist straight back up...

Lachlan Cannon
{Luminosity}

__________________________________________________
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From tommy at vertebrate.co.uk  Fri Nov 23 06:39:13 2001
From: tommy at vertebrate.co.uk (Tommy Martin)
Date: Fri Nov 23 06:39:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] new window scroll bars
In-Reply-To: <20011123120158.97030.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20011123120158.97030.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

Hi All,

Do any of the JS gurus out there happen to know if there's a way to 
spawn a new window that has a vertical scroll bar but NOT a 
horizontal one?

My voodoo-level JS means I'm using a Dreamweaver function like so:

onClick="MM_openBrWindow('foo.html','foowin','toolbar=no,location=no,status=yes,menubar=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,width=300,height=500')"


scrollbars=yesbutonlyaverticalone didn't work, but I'm 
guessing/hoping there may be something along those lines that does... 
;)

thanks

tommy

-- 
V e r t e b r a t e . co . uk
     design with a spine

http://www.vertebrate.co.uk



From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Nov 23 07:26:06 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Nov 23 07:26:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] new window scroll bars
Message-ID: <01c17422$71f869a0$e350149a@rudy>

> Do any of the JS gurus out there happen to know if there's
> a way to spawn a new window that has a vertical scroll bar
> but NOT a horizontal one?

hi tommy

i'm no javascript guru, but i don't think you can control this in the
javascript call

the only thing i can think of is to ensure that the page you open in the
popup is narrower than the popup -- use a div or a table with an absolute
width stated in pixels (perhaps you might also set the body margins, in
case there is a difference between browsers), and allow a healthy 30px for
the vertical scrollbar

rudy




From matt at mattwenham.co.uk  Fri Nov 23 08:13:25 2001
From: matt at mattwenham.co.uk (Matt Wenham)
Date: Fri Nov 23 08:13:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Name That Technique?
Message-ID: <3BFE598C.1400FD0E@mattwenham.co.uk>

Hi folks,

What's the technique called whereby an object in a photo is stripped of
its background using an alpha mask so that it can be dropped onto
another background?

Thanks,

Matt...



From joel at spinhead.com  Fri Nov 23 08:14:30 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Fri Nov 23 08:14:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] Oledb connection problem with Access XP - renewed
In-Reply-To: <1505013288.20011123110906@web-bitch.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000401c17429$590622a0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

!
Boy am I not paying attention while I do this. Thanks again. I'll let
you know how THIS works.

joel

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of darren
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 3:09 AM
To: Joel D Canfield
Subject: Re[2]: [thelist] Oledb connection problem with Access XP -
renewed


On 22 November 2001 at 18:50:03, Joel D Canfield 
wrote:

JDC> Hey, look! I can reply to my own post!

heh...never a good sign...

JDC> Which I'm STILL getting. Any more ideas?

not sure what's kicking up the error, but it may be that you're not
creating the recordset before the assignment....or are you??

the following code always works for me for sql strings:

      set objCon = Server.CreateObject ("ADODB.Connection")
      set objRc = Server.CreateObject ("ADODB.Recordset")
      objCon.Open
      objRc.CursorLocation = adUseServer
      objRc.Open strSQL, objCon, adOpenForwardOnly, , adCmdText

      if objRc.BOF and objRc.EOF then
         Response.Write "we got nuffin"
      else
         'get jiggy with the data
      end if

      objRc.Close
      objCon.Close
      set objRC = nothing
      set objCon = nothing

JDC> Is developing with Access really that much harder than SQL? I've 
JDC> been working with SQL7/2000 for a year, and it's a dream. Access 
JDC> continually frustrates me, but it's how this project needs to work.

there seem to be a *lot* more quirks when you're coding against access,
but for the most part it seems to go fine.  memos and blobs can be
problematic.

but it can't compare to sql2k, that's a *very* nice backend to play
with! :>

hth,

darren


---------------------------------------
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From scott at milcap.com  Fri Nov 23 08:37:18 2001
From: scott at milcap.com (Scott Adamson)
Date: Fri Nov 23 08:37:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] CRC-16 inverted
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20011118212814.00aab260@pro.via-rs.com.br>
Message-ID: <008001c1742c$5f6f5780$4501000a@milcap.com>

try looking for code samples to do this in dbase 4+ or foxpro, there almost
identical languages

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eduardo Bacchi Kienetz" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 12:31 AM
Subject: [thelist] CRC-16 inverted


> Does anybody have a routine (any language) of a CRC-16 inverted calculus ?
> Or at least technical info about CRC-16 inverted ? How it is calculated...
etc
>
> The fact is that I need to calculate de CRC-16 inverted of a string using
> Clipper (programming language text-based/DOS), however it's difficult to
> find something in Clipper, so I'm accepting it in whatever language ;)
>
> Then I can try to translate....
>
> TIA
>
> Eduardo Bacchi Kienetz
> Santa Maria - RS - Brazil
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From tommy at vertebrate.co.uk  Fri Nov 23 10:23:05 2001
From: tommy at vertebrate.co.uk (Tommy Martin)
Date: Fri Nov 23 10:23:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] new window scroll bars
In-Reply-To: <01c17422$71f869a0$e350149a@rudy>
References: <01c17422$71f869a0$e350149a@rudy>
Message-ID: 

>the only thing i can think of is to ensure that the page you open in the
>popup is narrower than the popup -- use a div or a table with an absolute
>width stated in pixels (perhaps you might also set the body margins, in
>case there is a difference between browsers), and allow a healthy 30px for
>the vertical scrollbar

Thanks Rudy,

That's usually the fix I'd use but for reasons beyond my grasp I just 
can't get it working in this case. The content of the popup is all 
set in absolute positioned divs, all 300px wide. I've tried making 
the new window a variety of sizes; 300 results in right edge getting 
cropped and horizontal scrollbar. 330px kills the horizontal scroll 
bar, but leaves a big white gap down the right edge. 315px, as a 
compromise, leaves the white space on Macs, and a horizontal 
scrollbar on Windows. It's a tiny but most infuriating problem...

on the off chance that anyone really wants to help out, the problem is at:
http://store.solutionsinc.co.uk/
(hit the 'about the store' button, top right)

and please don't freak our clients out by placing orders; the site's 
not live until next week ;)

thanks

tommy


-- 
V e r t e b r a t e . co . uk
     design with a spine

http://www.vertebrate.co.uk



From tommy at vertebrate.co.uk  Fri Nov 23 10:26:59 2001
From: tommy at vertebrate.co.uk (Tommy Martin)
Date: Fri Nov 23 10:26:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Name That Technique?
In-Reply-To: <3BFE598C.1400FD0E@mattwenham.co.uk>
References: <3BFE598C.1400FD0E@mattwenham.co.uk>
Message-ID: 

>What's the technique called whereby an object in a photo is stripped of
>its background using an alpha mask so that it can be dropped onto
>another background?

Compositing, matting, or chroma/alpha/luma-keying (depending on how 
you make your matte).

tommy


-- 
V e r t e b r a t e . co . uk
     design with a spine

http://www.vertebrate.co.uk



From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Fri Nov 23 10:33:20 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Fri Nov 23 10:33:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Name That Technique?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

do you mean this?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/samples/author/dhtml/DXTidemo/DXTidemo.ht
m


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Tommy Martin
Sent: 23 November 2001 16:27
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Name That Technique?


>What's the technique called whereby an object in a photo is stripped of
>its background using an alpha mask so that it can be dropped onto
>another background?

Compositing, matting, or chroma/alpha/luma-keying (depending on how
you make your matte).

tommy


--
V e r t e b r a t e . co . uk
     design with a spine

http://www.vertebrate.co.uk

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From djc at members.evolt.org  Fri Nov 23 10:44:38 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Fri Nov 23 10:44:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] [Fwd: mozilla.org releases Mozilla 0.9.6]
References: <3BFC03E9.5070101@nc.rr.com> <3BFC053C.2080605@members.evolt.org> <3BFD4AE3.30904@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <3BFE7CC5.3060404@members.evolt.org>

Hey Craig  -

Both sites worked pretty well for me using 0.9.6 on linux.. no crashes 
or anything, and as far as i can tell, the menus and demos worked out 
the way they should..

odd. maybe its a win32 bug only?

.djc.

Craig Saila wrote:


> I was looking forward to the new release, but its seems there was some 
> weirdness inserted into it in regards to dHTML. Any sites using 
> high-level DOM and CSS stuff seemed to crash it (occasionally 
> dramatically).
> e.g.:
> Stuff under:
> 
> my own site (try the nav):
> 
> Both of the above worked fine under Mozilla 0.9.6 and in IE 5 & 6/
> 
> Has any other Mozilla 0.9.6 person experienced this?





From framar at interlog.com  Fri Nov 23 12:58:22 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Fri Nov 23 12:58:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS: Arg! Netscape 4.7 & site check.
In-Reply-To: <0ae101c17412$8deb0e70$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
References: 
 <0ae101c17412$8deb0e70$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: 

>for your NS4 problems:

First off, thanks for a *wonderfully* thorough and precise response. 
I know this might sound kind of funny, I had great pleasure in 
reading this. This is what I consider to be a most excellent example 
of high quality collaborative communication.

If I may, I would like to address a number of points you've made.


>  3) NS4 regards a 
 which has an id to be a separate
>  document, so you have to step through the documents to
>  reach your image

Uh! Ok, I get that. Thanks, the fix worked perfectly.


>  The roll-over script could be a lot more compact - but
>  it works ok.

Can you offer an example of what that would look like? You probably 
mean the way that I've initialized and assigned the alternate image 
values, right?


>  4) NS4 has a well known resize-bug

Up until this time, I was a staunch proponent of keeping all my code 
as backward compatible as possible. There also has to be a time when 
someone moves into the current world. I'm new to doing a page that's 
(almost) 100% css2, so I hadn't encountered that yet.


>  Aside from that the page looks nice, the code is
>  well-laid out, if a little verbose, [..]

Can you offer an example of what you are looking at when you mention 
that? If you are referring to the stylesheet itself, there are some 
declarations where I've had to repeat stuff, because NS4 wouldn't 
cascade them properly.


>  [...] I guess all the roll-over stuff could be done with
>  text/css

I've seen DreamWeaver sites do that. What would you consider the 
advantages of using CSS for this purpose? Are you thinking of 
toggling the visibility of the divs on and off, or were you thinking 
of another approach?


>  There's quite a few minor syntax errors in there though.
>  (capitalization etc)

Now *this* I'm quite surprised at, especially when I go out of my way 
to use the validator. Can offer some examples?

I usually consider myself to be quite the expert in HTML (not JS 
though!), and you've opened my eyes on a number of things. Thanks 
again, this was a great response.



-- 

Our best destiny, as planetary cohabitants, is the development
of what has been called "species consciousness" - something over
and above nationalisms, blocs, religions, ethnicities.


Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From crsaila at yahoo.ca  Fri Nov 23 14:33:48 2001
From: crsaila at yahoo.ca (Craig Saila)
Date: Fri Nov 23 14:33:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] [Fwd: mozilla.org releases Mozilla 0.9.6]
References: <20011123002024.67887.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> <3BFDA677.8090001@ozline.net>
Message-ID: <3BFEB2FD.7070905@yahoo.ca>

Jon Hall wrote:

> Saila.com doesn't work in my IE6 either, but at least it doesn't crash, 

> just throws an object expected error. The funny thing is does at least 


Yeah, I think you caught that in the middle of my attempts to fix tweak 
the code.

> display in NS 4.76 but at the bottom of the front page there is a note 
> telling me to upgrade to either IE 5.5+,  Mozilla, or NS6...

For older browsers, I serve up a page that doesn't use CSS or DOM 
formatting, so that's what you see in browser lower than version 4 and 
in Opera.

-- 
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com  :  http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From krr at ix.netcom.com  Fri Nov 23 14:37:38 2001
From: krr at ix.netcom.com (Kevin Raleigh)
Date: Fri Nov 23 14:37:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] TARGET="_blank"  -- opionion poll on...
References: <20011122145459.07DDF86A@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <002401c1745e$7ee37bf0$59d6fea9@krr>

The most annoying is the persistent popup windows.
I come across a site every once in a while that will
pop 4, 5,  even had one that poped up 6 different
windows. You close one another pops up.

I never go back!

Netscape has to keep the lights on so I give them some
room but they make use of the popups quite abit. I say I
give them room because they do have to compete with
Microsoft.  "NO Bashing intended" "Or looked for"!

For the average site thou a simple target = blank is O.K.
IF they go the extra mile and leave a link in plain view so that
the user can close it and return back to their original place.

Kevin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Peterson 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 8:28 PM
> Subject: [thelist]         >
>
> Here's one for the polls...
>
> What are your opinions on opening links in new windows? Do you use them?
If
> so, when do you feel is an appropriate/inappropriate instance? Do you add
> warnings (e.g. "will open in a new window") or let the users figure it out
> for themselves?
>
> Personally, I add links to new windows if they are amid content that I
want
> the user to come back to immediately. If it is on a "Links" page or
> something similar, I will have the link open in the same window, since the
> user is apparently ready to leave the site. Lately, I have been adding
more
> warnings if I think users may get confused otherwise.
>
> Looking forward to your thoughts.
> Paul





From crsaila at yahoo.ca  Fri Nov 23 14:38:14 2001
From: crsaila at yahoo.ca (Craig Saila)
Date: Fri Nov 23 14:38:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] [Fwd: mozilla.org releases Mozilla 0.9.6]
References: <3BFC03E9.5070101@nc.rr.com> <3BFC053C.2080605@members.evolt.org> <3BFD4AE3.30904@yahoo.ca> <3BFE7CC5.3060404@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3BFEB401.6060100@yahoo.ca>

Daniel J. Cody wrote:

> Both sites worked pretty well for me using 0.9.6 on linux.. no crashes 


Thanks for checking on Linux.

> odd. maybe its a win32 bug only?

I'm thinking it either might be a compiling error in Windows, or a very 
slight change to how the DOM reads the styles on the page.

I did manage to get it working after making one minor change (after 
hours of debugging): instead of declaring a style in the linked sheet, I 
declared it in the document and manipulated it from there.

The strange thing is that there is no reason why this should be needed. 
Oh well, thanks for the help and I will be reporting this to bugzilla.

-- 
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com  :  http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From don at aspalliance.com  Fri Nov 23 15:58:42 2001
From: don at aspalliance.com (Don Makoviney)
Date: Fri Nov 23 15:58:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Measure banner ads like TV commercials?
References: <20011122145459.07DDF86A@relay.evolt.org> <002401c1745e$7ee37bf0$59d6fea9@krr>
Message-ID: <005d01c17469$24687c60$f7772241@dmak>

Hooray! No more bloody "click-thru" or "impression"!

MSNBC: Online ads take a cue from TV
-
Online publishers and advertisers are closely watching a new experiment in
Web marketing that aims to replace discredited "impressions" and "clicks"
with a more reliable measurement: time. Called "surround sessions," the new
format lets advertisers target readers exclusively for the duration of a Web
site visit.
http://www.makovision.com/m/tr.asp?l=1823

Don Makoviney
MAKOVISION.COM - Handpicked Internet News For Web Developers
http://www.makovision.com/

FREE WebDev/Online Writing Newsletter
http://www.makovision.com/subs/




From datawebs at email.com  Fri Nov 23 17:11:11 2001
From: datawebs at email.com (Datawebs Web Design)
Date: Fri Nov 23 17:11:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Printing IE Cell Background Colour
Message-ID: <20011121210245.14017.qmail@email.com>

Hi All

I am trying to print a table with some cells coloured using IE5.5 (using a different browser is not an option). The table takes the white background for the page and some cells have their own colour specified. I have tried:

1 specifying in CSS with background-color in a class.
2 using bgcolor in the td tag.
3 using a background image in the td tag to  tile the cell.

All of these work on screen, but none print, so leaving me with a white table. Any ideas?

Thanks 
Karl
-- 

_______________________________________________
1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.!

http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http://www.getpennytalk.com







From muinar at gmx.net  Fri Nov 23 17:11:26 2001
From: muinar at gmx.net (muinar)
Date: Fri Nov 23 17:11:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] german web terminology
In-Reply-To: <20011121161021.68879.qmail@web9807.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011121222119.02251910@mail.gmx.net>

Try to contact folks at denic.de - that's the main registration
service. Others try to sell you hosting and forwarding, even
if you don't want to. This can get tough if you want your domain
back from them. Germany IME has a bit a special way to handle
registrations.

At 08:10 21.11.01 -0800, you wrote:
>i know there are some germans on this list.  i need
>your help.  you can reply in german / off-list.
>
>i'm having trouble with german web terminology.  i'm
>beginning to suspect that 'Domain' refers to a whole
>website rather than a domain name.  and what on earth
>is 'KonnektivitaetsKoordination (KK)'?

This is not a real word.


>background:
>i'm trying to find a german registrar to transfer a
>.de domain to that i already own but that was
>registered for my family through the original host for
>their site.  i'll be hosting their site on my reseller
>account from now on and need a german provider to
>handle the name server entries (don't seem to be able
>to transfer the domain to a non-german registrar).
>that's all.  don't want hosting, email, url
>re-direction or anything like that.
>
>could someone tell me what domain name management is
>called in german?

These words are eingedeutscht, you can use them in german.


>vielen dank
>tschuess
>iris
>
>p.s. the bureaucracy necessary for this is doing my
>head in.

Ok if you go directly to Denic, you need a german admin address.
Then you're ok. Registration there is by fax - not online. You
print out online pdf forms and send them by fax to denic.

Tell me if you have more questions.

Mike


____ mike s. krischker  muinar internet studios
      ch-4009 basel      mailto:msk at muinar.com
      erfolgs-websites:  http://muinar.com/
      know-how f?r kmu:  http://kmutips.ch/





From rob at creativescream.net  Fri Nov 23 17:11:59 2001
From: rob at creativescream.net (Rob Redford)
Date: Fri Nov 23 17:11:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE:  removing claret from IE (Here's how to do it)
Message-ID: <20011122195927.FFHL13117.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@founder>


Accessibility be damned!

If you insist on removing the dotted lines that appear around clicked links, form buttons, and image maps in IE it's easily done and does not affect how other browsers work with the same links.  Simply add this bit of Javascript to your anchor tags or form buttons:

onFocus="if(this.blur)this.blur()"

It's worth noting that any attributes you may have set via HTML or CSS for a:active will cease to work when this is applied (although that effect is often only visible for less than a second, anyway).


Frankly, I don't see the what the BFD is about this -- "accessibility" or otherwise.  I find the dotted lines to be intensely annoying (esp. on image maps), and they aren't rendered in most browsers other than IE anyway, so that (IMHO) makes any argument for accessibility moot.  The claret is not a standard as such, although it is common to most Micro$oft products.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Best Regards,
Rob Redford, 11/22/2001 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 






From postmaster at worldradiosearch.com  Fri Nov 23 17:13:00 2001
From: postmaster at worldradiosearch.com (Postmaster)
Date: Fri Nov 23 17:13:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: digital camera
In-Reply-To:  
References: 
Message-ID: <20011123133442.28598.qmail@ip5.webhuset.no>

Hi, Erika ! 

Well, you`ve got allot of advice here at the list, but I do feel the subject 
are very subjective. 

I would advice you to first get the amount your department are willing to 
spend on a camera.
Next would be to take a trip to a nearby shop to look at some cameras 
"live".
Use your time there and test the cameras in some of the situations you would 
use it for.
Collect prices for the range they have. 

When you` re back at the office; read thru all the mails from the list, and 
check the links you`ve got.
Take a trip to different shopping portals and check the price on different 
models you are interested in. 

Bear in mind that service and guarantees are essential, so it may be more 
value in one that have the
best offer on this. Think long term. 

When it comes to zoom and flash on digital cameras; I have to tell you that 
it is only the most expensive ones
that deliver this at a acceptable level of quality. Most cameras deliver a 
effective flash range at max 3m and
optical zoom up to 10m. If you want a camera that delivers better than this; 
you have to grab a pro camera. 

You may want balance your money between the price on the camera and a extra 
memorycard.
Most of the cameras are delivered with a 8mb or 16mb memorycard. Since you 
are gonna
use it for the web; you `ll use picturesize of 640x480. A 8mb card will give 
you  100 pict and a 16mb about 200 pict.
You may say that this covers your need, but my advice would be to get a hold 
of a extra card at the same time
you buy your camera. You`ll get a better deal on it and go for a 32mb card 
while you`re at it.
Everyone who has a camera knows that thay always have too little memoryspace 
when they need it. 

Hope this helps,
Roy H 

Erika Meyer writes: 

> My department has said they are willing to buy a digital camera for me to 
> use at work.  It needs to be a good value though. 
> 
> What I need to do is take good pictures (mostly around campus) for the 
> web. I need USB.  I need to be able to take indoors shots without having 
> to use flash.  I want to be able to set it to take black & white.  I want 
> zoom.  Maybe I want other stuff but I don't know enough to say. 
> 
> Basically, I would use the camera to make photos indoors (portraits & 
> objects) and outdoors (buildings, people, vegetation) on campus.  I'd then 
> edit them for the web site.  They would not be used for print. 
> 
> Suggestions for a good value? 
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> Erika
> --  
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
 




From bruce at heerssen.com  Fri Nov 23 17:31:57 2001
From: bruce at heerssen.com (Bruce Heerssen)
Date: Fri Nov 23 17:31:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] new window scroll bars
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20011123120158.97030.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com> 
Message-ID: <01112317252900.01472@localhost.localdomain>

On Friday 23 November 2001 07:39, Tommy Martin wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Do any of the JS gurus out there happen to know if there's a way to
> spawn a new window that has a vertical scroll bar but NOT a
> horizontal one?
>

Not really, you can't specify that there should be a veritical scroll bar but 
/not/ a horizontal one. What you can do is use the 'auto' setting:

onClick="MM_openBrWindow('foo.html','foowin','toolbar=no,location=no,status=yes,menubar=no,scrollbars=auto,resizable=yes,width=300,height=500')"

By using the auto setting, the browser can determine whether or not there 
should be a horizontal scroll bar. Just make sure the pop-up has enough room 
horizontally and you should be set.

-- 
Bruce Heerssen
Web Developer
http://members.evolt.org/bheerssen/



From bruce at heerssen.com  Fri Nov 23 17:38:09 2001
From: bruce at heerssen.com (Bruce Heerssen)
Date: Fri Nov 23 17:38:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: removing claret from IE (Here's how to do it)
In-Reply-To: <20011122195927.FFHL13117.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@founder>
References: <20011122195927.FFHL13117.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@founder>
Message-ID: <01112317365001.01472@localhost.localdomain>

On Thursday 22 November 2001 15:03, Rob Redford wrote:
> 
> Accessibility be damned!
>
> If you insist on removing the dotted lines that appear around clicked
> links, form buttons, and image maps in IE it's easily done and does not
> affect how other browsers work with the same links.  Simply add this bit of
> Javascript to your anchor tags or form buttons:
>
> onFocus="if(this.blur)this.blur()"
>

Uh... couldn't you use 'onmouseup'? This would tie the event to the mouse, 
leaving other functionality associated with the keyboard in place. AFAIK, 
IE4.up recognizes the onmouseup attribute - that would neatly solve the 
problem in IE while not affecting other browsers that may not recognize it.

What am I missing here?

-Bruce



From paul at thereformist.com  Fri Nov 23 17:42:01 2001
From: paul at thereformist.com (Paul Peterson)
Date: Fri Nov 23 17:42:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] How To Set Mac Wallpaper
In-Reply-To: <20011123113517.C2C8FC062@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000201c17478$7acfa290$88260a18@c1290587a>

Is there a way to set your desktop wallpaper directly from a Mac browser,
similar to the Windows right-click, "Set as Wallpaper" feature? I know you
can save the image and then set your background with the Appearance control
panel, but I was just wondering if there was a quicker way.

TIA,
Paul




From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Fri Nov 23 17:58:24 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Fri Nov 23 17:58:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] new window scroll bars
References: <01c17422$71f869a0$e350149a@rudy> 
Message-ID: <005d01c1747a$6f85db00$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

hi,
In the style-sheet of the page you are loading into the popup you can put:

body{
    overflowX: hidden;
}

That should hide the horizontal scrollbar in IE5+ at least.

Cheers,
Richard.

I like your company name/motto BTW :o)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tommy Martin" 

> That's usually the fix I'd use but for reasons beyond my grasp I just
> can't get it working in this case. The content of the popup is all
> set in absolute positioned divs, all 300px wide. I've tried making
> the new window a variety of sizes; 300 results in right edge getting
> cropped and horizontal scrollbar. 330px kills the horizontal scroll
> bar, but leaves a big white gap down the right edge. 315px, as a
> compromise, leaves the white space on Macs, and a horizontal
> scrollbar on Windows. It's a tiny but most infuriating problem...
>
> on the off chance that anyone really wants to help out, the problem is at:
> http://store.solutionsinc.co.uk/
> (hit the 'about the store' button, top right)

> V e r t e b r a t e . co . uk
>      design with a spine
>
> http://www.vertebrate.co.uk





From roselli at earthlink.net  Fri Nov 23 18:05:54 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Fri Nov 23 18:05:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Name That Technique?
In-Reply-To: <3BFE598C.1400FD0E@mattwenham.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3BFE9DB7.26071.91BAE6C@localhost>

> From: Matt Wenham 
[...]
> What's the technique called whereby an object in a photo is stripped
> of its background using an alpha mask so that it can be dropped onto
> another background?
[...]

masking?

dinna see any other answers (other than the CSS filter stuff)...

exactly what's the context?  in Photoshop, there's an "extract" 
feature that does what tools like Corel KnockOut does...

or you mean something else?




From crsaila at yahoo.ca  Fri Nov 23 18:13:53 2001
From: crsaila at yahoo.ca (Craig Saila)
Date: Fri Nov 23 18:13:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Tip: setting cookies in JavaScript
Message-ID: <3BFEE68D.9000705@yahoo.ca>

Not owing, but might one day:


If you use something like this to set a cookie:

   var time = new Date();
   time.setTime(time.getTime());
   document.cookie = name + "=" + escape(value) + "; path=/; expires=" + 
time;

make sure you convert "time" to GMT by doing this:

   time.toGMTString()

Mozilla 0.9.6 requires it.


-- 
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com  :  http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From roselli at earthlink.net  Fri Nov 23 18:28:01 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Fri Nov 23 18:28:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Printing IE Cell Background Colour
In-Reply-To: <20011121210245.14017.qmail@email.com>
Message-ID: <3BFEA2F3.11699.9302213@localhost>

> From:  "Datawebs Web Design" 
>
> I am trying to print a table with some cells coloured using IE5.5
> (using a different browser is not an option). The table takes the
> white background for the page and some cells have their own colour
> specified. I have tried:
[...]

IE5.5/win2k...

Tools > Internet Options > Advanced > Printing > Print background 
colors and images

just check that box...




From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Fri Nov 23 18:47:32 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Fri Nov 23 18:47:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS: Arg! Netscape 4.7 & site check.
References:  <0ae101c17412$8deb0e70$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> 
Message-ID: <008401c17481$4e351770$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

Hi,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank" 
To: 

> >  The roll-over script could be a lot more compact - but
> >  it works ok.
>
> Can you offer an example of what that would look like? You probably
> mean the way that I've initialized and assigned the alternate image
> values, right?
Wel yes, you could load the names in an array, and feed them to a function
to preload the images.

Also links like this:
onmouseover="imageChange('Home','HomeOn','TagLine','TagLine')"
can be condensed to something like this:
onmouseover="iC('Home','TagLine')"

You can also reason that a mouse-over will always be followed by a mouse-out
from the same link,
so remember which image-source was in use originally, and change it back to
this onmouse-out.
Your mouse-out code in each link could then be :
onmouseout="iC()"

It's all a matter of preference, I prefer concise, but verbose is more
readable.

> >  Aside from that the page looks nice, the code is
> >  well-laid out, if a little verbose, [..]
>
> Can you offer an example of what you are looking at when you mention
> that?
See above.
Purely a question of preference though.

> >  [...] I guess all the roll-over stuff could be done with
> >  text/css
>
> I've seen DreamWeaver sites do that. What would you consider the
> advantages of using CSS for this purpose? Are you thinking of
> toggling the visibility of the divs on and off, or were you thinking
> of another approach?
There are various techniques to use, the easiest is:

and then:
Home

That more or less replicates your menu items, it loads faster, needs no
image-editing, needs no javascript, is very search-engine friendly, works in
all browsers even if javascript or images are not activated (although the
orange highlight won't show in NS4). And if the browser doesn't support CSS
the link will still show and work normally.

Of course you would still need some javascript to show/hide the tagline, so
you would loose much of the advantage.

> >  There's quite a few minor syntax errors in there though.
> >  (capitalization etc)
>
> Now *this* I'm quite surprised at, especially when I go out of my way
> to use the validator. Can offer some examples?
Yeah, that was maybe an unfair comment, as you are validating 4.0
transitional, and in that case there are no immediate errors.
I've been aiming at XHTML validation lately, or at least trying to make a
habit of quoting values, and using lower-case for attributes and tags, and
closing all tags, like this 
 .
I that context I noticed a few irregularities, - that was more force of
habit than anything else.

Cheers,
Richard Bennett.





From matt at mattwenham.co.uk  Sat Nov 24 03:48:19 2001
From: matt at mattwenham.co.uk (Matt Wenham)
Date: Sat Nov 24 03:48:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Name That Technique?
References: <3BFE9DB7.26071.91BAE6C@localhost>
Message-ID: <3BFF6CF2.7C2D9F1C@mattwenham.co.uk>

> > What's the technique called whereby an object in a photo is stripped
> > of its background using an alpha mask so that it can be dropped onto
> > another background?

> masking?

> exactly what's the context?  in Photoshop, there's an "extract"
> feature that does what tools like Corel KnockOut does...

> or you mean something else?

That's the ticket, yes... anyone aware of any freeware apps to do it for
complex cases, or is it about time I wrote one??

Matt...



From djc at members.evolt.org  Sat Nov 24 12:45:44 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Sat Nov 24 12:45:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images
References: 
Message-ID: <3BFFEAA8.4020408@members.evolt.org>

Hi Paul -

Don't know if your original question got answered in all the theory, but 
theres an article on the evolt site that deals with this issue, maybe it 
will help you out :)

The_IE_grey_dotted_box_Get_rid_of_it:
http://www.evolt.org/article/thelist/17/264/index.html

hth!

.djc.


Paul Backhouse wrote:

> hi peeps,
> 
> does anyone know how to get rid of the white dotted line on images that are
> clickable when you click on them in IE - i need some sort of code for it - a
> customer doesn't like it - i tried to explain thats its just the way it is -
> but i said id try and find some code.
> 
> A mate of mine said if i put onclick="slef.blur()" that should get rid of
> it - but it didn't work - im using IE6 - maybe that has something to do with
> it.
> 
> Anyway - if anyone knows it would be a great help.





From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Sat Nov 24 13:51:35 2001
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Sat Nov 24 13:51:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Design for netscape 4.x and others?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011124144549.02831958@mail.idirect.ca>

I've recently created a site where I had to design a separate version for 
Netscape 4.x users as well as another for IE5, NN6, Opera.  The site is 
here http://www.quidditywebdesigns.com/fri/index.htm, it's under renovation 
currently.
Is it commonplace to design separate sites for separate browsers or is 
there a set of rules to cover most browsers in one design?
Thank you.

Peter Kaulback




From r937 at interlog.com  Sat Nov 24 15:30:31 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sat Nov 24 15:30:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Design for netscape 4.x and others?
Message-ID: <01c1752e$e8828da0$824e149a@rudy>

> Is it commonplace to design separate sites for separate browsers
> or is there a set of rules to cover most browsers in one design?

hi peter

yes, and yes, respectively

judging by people's comments on web development discussion lists, a lot of
clients are still insisting that the site look "the same" in netscape 4

there are basically two sets of rules for the "one design" approach

the first is that you keep everything to a minimum, feature-wise, so that
without any extra effort the site *does* look the same in all browsers --
so for example you could use image rollovers, tables for layout, and font
tags, but not very much css, and as a result, it's a lot harder to maintain
this type of site

the second set of rules is that you design using css, and let the old
browsers fend for themselves as best they can -- and one real good strategy
in this approach is to use the @import hack, er, technique, to hide any
styles from netscape 4 that don't work in netscape 4

as a result, netscape 4 users see a plain site -- the content is there, but
not the layout and maybe not the stylish look either

one notable resource for this second approach is the WaSP (web standards
project)

see http://www.webstandards.org/upgrade/tips.html


rudy




From poojie at dccnet.com  Sat Nov 24 15:50:53 2001
From: poojie at dccnet.com (Daryl Grant)
Date: Sat Nov 24 15:50:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] digital camera
In-Reply-To: <20011123133442.28598.qmail@ip5.webhuset.no>
Message-ID: 

Erika Meyer writes:

> My department has said they are willing to buy a digital camera for me to
> use at work.


Erika,

I have had excellent experiences with Olympus cameras, specifically the E-10
(extremely high quality -- $2000USD), the E-100RS (quite good quality and
the ability to shoot rapid action at 15 fps -- $1500USD) and the C-700 Ultra
Zoom (decent quality for the price range with 10x _optical_ zoom --
$700USD).

All of these cameras have friendly menus that house many, many options
(including the ones you mentioned). The 'E' series is more along
professional quality lines, but the C-700 is an excellent camera. It uses
software that is very similar that used on the E-100 and E-10 -- and is
easier to use in some ways.

One of the best features common to all three of these digital cameras is
that they do not require software in order to download the images you have
taken -- you simply plug them in (via USB) and access them like you would
any other removeable drive (through a temporary drive letter, 'E:' for
example). As far as I know, Olympus is the only company doing this right
now.

Another great feature which is important to have (and not very common with
sub $1000USD cameras) is being able to take TIFF (uncompressed). They
require a lot of storage space, but sometimes having perfect quality is
necessary.

You can read my reviews of these cameras here:

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/olympusc-700/index.html

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/olympuse100rs/index.html

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/olympuse10/index.html


Also, the Imaging Resource ( http://www.imaging-resource.com ) is exactly
what the name says it is :] (although beware of the 10,000 word reviews).

Daryl




From framar at interlog.com  Sat Nov 24 16:58:14 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Sat Nov 24 16:58:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS: Arg! Netscape 4.7 & site check.
In-Reply-To: <008401c17481$4e351770$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
References: 
 <0ae101c17412$8deb0e70$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
 
 <008401c17481$4e351770$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: 

>>>  The roll-over script could be a lot more compact - but
>>>  it works ok.

>>  Can you offer an example of what that would look like?

>  you could load the names in an array, and feed them to a
>  function to preload the images.

>  Also links like this: [snip]

>  It's all a matter of preference, I prefer concise, but
>  verbose is more readable.

Right, I understand. I'm not quite that competent in javascript yet, 
that will come. You are also quite correct, I deliberately use long 
variable names, etc... purely for the sake of the human being reading 
it. I *know* that after a year I will have to re-read the code, or 
that a stranger will read it. In that respect, I prefer readability 
to concision.


>>  [Rollovers:] What would you consider the advantages of
>>  using CSS for this purpose?

>There are various techniques to use, the easiest is:

>  [Use text links and CSS, as opposed to images]

I agree. I'm going to see if I can influence my designers to sticking 
to basic fonts, and still make things look good. This is a question 
of approach versus, technique. Had that been the case, I most likely 
would have gone that route.


>>>  There's quite a few minor syntax errors in there though.
>>>  (capitalization etc)

>>  Now *this* I'm quite surprised at, especially when I go
>>  out of my way to use the validator.  Can offer some examples?

>  Yeah, that was maybe an unfair comment, as you are
>  validating 4.0 transitional, and in that case there are
>  no immediate errors.

>  I've been aiming at XHTML validation lately

>  I that context I noticed a few irregularities, - that
>  was more force of habit than anything else.

OK, that makes sense. Yes. I'm not quite sure I'm ready to adopt 
XHTML standards just yet, and when I update these sites, I'm quite 
sure it's going to be a total re-write, not a modification. But it 
would be a good idea for me to consider this for the HTML generated 
by my apps.

Thank you Richard, that was a very fulfilling exchange. Aside from 
the straight out help, you've put a bug in my ear for a number of 
things that helps me raise the bar a little bit. My professional soul 
feels fed. 




-- 

Our best destiny, as planetary cohabitants, is the development
of what has been called "species consciousness" - something over
and above nationalisms, blocs, religions, ethnicities.


Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From framar at interlog.com  Sat Nov 24 17:04:22 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Sat Nov 24 17:04:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] How To Set Mac Wallpaper
In-Reply-To: <000201c17478$7acfa290$88260a18@c1290587a>
References: <000201c17478$7acfa290$88260a18@c1290587a>
Message-ID: 

>  Is there a way to set your desktop wallpaper directly
>  from a Mac browser, similar to the Windows right-click,
>  "Set as Wallpaper" feature? I know you can save the
>  image and then set your background with the Appearance
>  control panel, but I was just wondering if there was a
>  quicker way.

The desktop image, as wallpaper is referred to on the Mac side, 
cannot be set directly by the browser. There are a number of things 
that could do to facilitate that, but it would require deliberate 
efforts on the part of the end user.

I don't know if this applies to Mac OS X.

[Tangent] One might curse the this particular lack of direct 
integration between program and OS that Windows has, it's side 
benefit is that of increased security.

-- 

Our best destiny, as planetary cohabitants, is the development
of what has been called "species consciousness" - something over
and above nationalisms, blocs, religions, ethnicities.


Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From alastair at cubeit.co.uk  Sat Nov 24 17:44:17 2001
From: alastair at cubeit.co.uk (Alastair Murdoch)
Date: Sat Nov 24 17:44:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] blank messages
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

has anybody else been getting messages from thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
with no subject or body??

I've had about half a dozen today and a few yesterday.

Alastair




From WiredRepublic at aol.com  Sat Nov 24 18:28:05 2001
From: WiredRepublic at aol.com (WiredRepublic at aol.com)
Date: Sat Nov 24 18:28:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] blank messages
Message-ID: <61.170d1894.29319525@aol.com>

I haven't no.

- Rich [ wired:RAGE ]



From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Sat Nov 24 18:51:04 2001
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Sat Nov 24 18:51:04 2001
Subject: Moan + PHP Tip, was: [thelist] blank messages
In-Reply-To: <61.170d1894.29319525@aol.com>
References: <61.170d1894.29319525@aol.com>
Message-ID: 

>I haven't no.

Can we please kill this thread right here? Send this sort of thing to 
Dan offlist.


If your PHP host is not prepared to recompile PHP with GD, and you 
want to do some fancy on-the-fly image resizing, have a look into the 
features of NetPBM. The sparse home page is at: 
http://netpbm.sourceforge.net/

There are precompiled binaries for a few platforms, which is handy 
for the above situation, since you won't be able to get any compile 
time on your host will you? It makes resizing images with PHP as easy 
as:

exec ("/dir/to/jpegtopnm /your/jpeg/file.jpg |
/dir/to/pnmscale -xsize $whateverwidthyoulike |
/dir/to/ppmtojpeg > /your/output/file.jpg");

Fast, and highly recommended.

-- 
Andrew Forsberg
---
uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/
the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/



From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Nov 24 19:10:25 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Nov 24 19:10:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Name That Technique?
In-Reply-To: <3BFF6CF2.7C2D9F1C@mattwenham.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3BFFFE6B.3618.E7D6F51@localhost>

> From: Matt Wenham 
[...] 
> > exactly what's the context?  in Photoshop, there's an "extract"
> > feature that does what tools like Corel KnockOut does...
> 
> That's the ticket, yes... anyone aware of any freeware apps to do it
> for complex cases, or is it about time I wrote one??

er, no, haven't heard of any freeware apps...

but if you've got a need for a client, then $300 for Corel KnockOut 
might not be too bad if you can bill part of it back and use it for 
other projects... you can find out more info at (framed content 
page):
http://www.procreate.com/product/knockout.html

too bad you didn't grab KnockOut 1.5 when it was $129... although 
you might be able to find it out there somewhere...




From matt at mattwenham.co.uk  Sat Nov 24 20:09:11 2001
From: matt at mattwenham.co.uk (Matt Wenham)
Date: Sat Nov 24 20:09:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Name That Technique?
References: <3BFFFE6B.3618.E7D6F51@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C0052D9.A5A89F44@mattwenham.co.uk>

> er, no, haven't heard of any freeware apps...

Shame... I have something of an algorithm worked out, but precious
little time to code it.

Matt...



From joe at artlung.com  Sat Nov 24 21:17:47 2001
From: joe at artlung.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Sat Nov 24 21:17:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE:  removing claret from IE (Here's how to do it)
In-Reply-To: <20011124213106.B473DC016@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: 

thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org wrote:
> Subject: 
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> 
> 
> Accessibility be damned!
> 
> If you insist on removing the dotted lines that appear around clicked links,
> form buttons, and image maps in IE it's easily done and does not affect how
> other browsers work with the same links.  Simply add this bit of Javascript to
> your anchor tags or form buttons:

Actually, it can simultaneously prevent folks from tabbing past the link so
specified.

> onFocus="if(this.blur)this.blur()"
> 
> It's worth noting that any attributes you may have set via HTML or CSS for
> a:active will cease to work when this is applied (although that effect is
> often only visible for less than a second, anyway).

> Frankly, I don't see the what the BFD is about this -- "accessibility" or
> otherwise.  I find the dotted lines to be intensely annoying (esp. on image
> maps), and they aren't rendered in most browsers other than IE anyway, so that
> (IMHO) makes any argument for accessibility moot.  The claret is not a
> standard as such, although it is common to most Micro$oft products.

Some folks with motor difficulties can't use a mouse. For these folks, it
*does* indeed impact accessibility. And in truth, it's up to the user agent
to add features to links to more clearly indicate where they are. In that
sense those dotted lines are meant to be an aid to usability and
accessibility.

A small page I put together some time ago on this issue.
http://www.artlung.com/lab/scripting/the-problem-with-blur/

best,
    Joe
--
...........  Joe Crawford : thinking and design about the web
.... enigmatic narcissism and miscellany : http://artlung.com
.... community instigator : http://WebSanDiego.org
.... San Diego, California, USA .....................AAAFNRAA




From cache at dowebs.com  Sat Nov 24 21:28:05 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith)
Date: Sat Nov 24 21:28:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] blank messages
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <3C0002FC.9282.10051CE@localhost>

> has anybody else been getting messages from
> thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org with no subject or body??
> 
> I've had about half a dozen today and a few yesterday.

It's been sloooow....  but no blank messages. 



From ckanderson at powersurfr.com  Sat Nov 24 22:09:46 2001
From: ckanderson at powersurfr.com (Christian Anderson)
Date: Sat Nov 24 22:09:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP & Access - Using the same variable twice
References: 
Message-ID: <002601c17567$45c1e1e0$56a3c63d@chris>

Hey everyone, long time no question asking from me :)

Anyway, I am working on something in ASP using an Access database, and its
not working like I think it would.  I after I pull some info from the
database, I want to use a few of the pieces of data more than once, but its
just not letting me.  I can use each one only one time, and if I try and
call it again it wont work.  For example this is the code that Im working
with:

<%
number = request.querystring("number")
SQL=("SELECT * FROM t_kawaguchiko WHERE aID = " & number & ";")
set conn = server.createobject("ADODB.Connection")
conn.open "photobase"
set store=conn.execute(SQL)
%>

So then I have some variable that I can call with <%= store(1) %> etc...  so
if I have

My name is: <%= store(1) %>
I am whatever years old, bla bla bla bla bla, etc etc
on and on and on

...dont forget to email me, and dont forget that my name is <%= store(1) %>
!

So anyway, I call that <%= store(1) %> thing 2 times, and the second time I
call it, nothing shows up.

What can I do so it will allow me to use the same stuff more than once?
Thanks!

Christian Anderson
URL: http://www.photokyo.com




From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Sat Nov 24 22:55:22 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Sat Nov 24 22:55:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP & Access - Using the same variable twice
In-Reply-To: <002601c17567$45c1e1e0$56a3c63d@chris>
Message-ID: 

On Nov 25, Christian Anderson had something to say about [thelist] ASP &...

...
><%
>number = request.querystring("number")
>SQL=("SELECT * FROM t_kawaguchiko WHERE aID = " & number & ";")
>set conn = server.createobject("ADODB.Connection")
>conn.open "photobase"
>set store=conn.execute(SQL)
>%>
>
>So then I have some variable that I can call with <%= store(1) %> etc...  so
>if I have
>
>My name is: <%= store(1) %>
>I am whatever years old, bla bla bla bla bla, etc etc
>on and on and on
>
>...dont forget to email me, and dont forget that my name is <%= store(1) %>
>!
>
>So anyway, I call that <%= store(1) %> thing 2 times, and the second time I
>call it, nothing shows up.

Have you closed the recordset?
Have you called moveNext() or used the recordset in a for each loop?

>What can I do so it will allow me to use the same stuff more than once?

Whatever your problem is, all you have to do is store the resultset value
into a variant:

...
conn.open "photobase"
set store = conn.execute(SQL)
strName = store(1)

Response.Write "My name is:" & strName
...
Response.Write "... forget that my name is" & strName


hope this helps. if you want to know exactly what you did wrong, post more
of your script and i or someone else will help you out so you don't make
the same mistake next time.


--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From mg at markgroen.com  Sat Nov 24 23:49:20 2001
From: mg at markgroen.com (Mark Groen)
Date: Sat Nov 24 23:49:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] blank messages
References:  <3C0002FC.9282.10051CE@localhost>
Message-ID: <006001c17574$a7ed7de0$6501a8c0@cr10746a>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith" 
Subject: Re: [thelist] blank messages


> > has anybody else been getting messages from
> > thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org with no subject or body??
> >
> > I've had about half a dozen today and a few yesterday.
>
> It's been sloooow....  but no blank messages.
>
It's a generally pretty quiet list on weekends, our US friends are
taking a long weekend for Thanksgiving also.
As far as blank email:
thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
They might be able to give you a better explanation as to why you are
getting blank emails.
hth!
Mark




From ckanderson at powersurfr.com  Sun Nov 25 04:34:21 2001
From: ckanderson at powersurfr.com (Christian Anderson)
Date: Sun Nov 25 04:34:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP & Access - Using the same variable twice
References: 
Message-ID: <001f01c1759d$014fb240$5da2c63d@chris>

Hey Matt,

Thanks, that did the trick.  Ok, now I have one more little baby to ask :)

My server is somewhere in teh USA, and Im in Japan.  I want to have a script
that pulls things out according to the current date, but with the big time
difference, I dont know what I can do.

So in my select statement, do I do a WHERE dDATE = [fn_serverdate](or
whatever that is, I dont really remember) + 14 hours ?

Thanks again!

Christian Anderson
URL: http://www.photokyo.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Warden, Matt" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] ASP & Access - Using the same variable twice


> On Nov 25, Christian Anderson had something to say about [thelist] ASP
&...
>
> ...
> ><%
> >number = request.querystring("number")
> >SQL=("SELECT * FROM t_kawaguchiko WHERE aID = " & number & ";")
> >set conn = server.createobject("ADODB.Connection")
> >conn.open "photobase"
> >set store=conn.execute(SQL)
> >%>
> >
> >So then I have some variable that I can call with <%= store(1) %> etc...
so
> >if I have
> >
> >My name is: <%= store(1) %>
> >I am whatever years old, bla bla bla bla bla, etc etc
> >on and on and on
> >
> >...dont forget to email me, and dont forget that my name is <%= store(1)
%>
> >!
> >
> >So anyway, I call that <%= store(1) %> thing 2 times, and the second time
I
> >call it, nothing shows up.
>
> Have you closed the recordset?
> Have you called moveNext() or used the recordset in a for each loop?
>
> >What can I do so it will allow me to use the same stuff more than once?
>
> Whatever your problem is, all you have to do is store the resultset value
> into a variant:
>
> ...
> conn.open "photobase"
> set store = conn.execute(SQL)
> strName = store(1)
>
> Response.Write "My name is:" & strName
> ...
> Response.Write "... forget that my name is" & strName
>
>
> hope this helps. if you want to know exactly what you did wrong, post more
> of your script and i or someone else will help you out so you don't make
> the same mistake next time.
>
>
> --
> mattwarden
> mattwarden.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Sun Nov 25 04:42:10 2001
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Sun Nov 25 04:42:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP & Access - Using the same variable twice
References:  <002601c17567$45c1e1e0$56a3c63d@chris>
Message-ID: <001b01c1759d$d1d7a350$dec7883e@lovelydo>

Hi Christian

As Mat has already pointed out storing the value as a varient will probably
solve your problem for you.  When I started with ASP one of the first
"mysteries" I encountered was a similar disappering value.  Someone pointed
out that the problem was that the field I was getting the data from was a
Memo type field as opposed to a Text one.  Memo fields are only readable
once in a recordset, so the first thing you need to do is store the data
somewhere else.

HTH

Norman




From r937 at interlog.com  Sun Nov 25 07:58:32 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sun Nov 25 07:58:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP & Access - Using the same variable twice
Message-ID: <01c175b9$58b2d8c0$824e149a@rudy>

> My server is somewhere in teh USA, and Im in Japan.  I want to
> have a script that pulls things out according to the current date,
> but with the big time difference, I dont know what I can do.

hi christian

interesting question

the first thing you'll want to do is find out which time zone your server
is in, and whether the server's clock is reliable and accurate -- 99% of
servers are, but i've run into one where the clock is deliberately off by a
few hours on purpose (not sure why, perhaps so that when you ftp a file,
you always get the warning message about there being a more recent file
on the server, are you sure you want to overwrite?)

the next thing is figuring out what you mean by "current date"

are you going to go by the time zone your site visitor is in?  that's
really hard to pin down

on the other hand, if you want tokyo time, then just figure out the offset
from your server and you're all set

and yes, you'd use something like

  WHERE dDATE = current date + 14 hours

depending on what sort of date calculation syntax your particular database
supports


rudy





From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Sun Nov 25 11:07:59 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Sun Nov 25 11:07:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] digital camera
Message-ID: 

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------



To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:  RE: [thelist] digital camera


>One of the best features common to all three of these digital cameras is
>that they do not require software in order to download the images you have
>taken -- you simply plug them in (via USB) and access them like you would
>any other removeable drive (through a temporary drive letter, 'E:' for
>example). As far as I know, Olympus is the only company doing this right
>now.

Don't know if it behaves like this for Win as well as Mac, but the Sonys
work exactly like this. I'd be surprised if that weren't standard behaviour
for USB cameras.

>Another great feature which is important to have (and not very common with
>sub $1000USD cameras) is being able to take TIFF (uncompressed). They
>require a lot of storage space, but sometimes having perfect quality is
>necessary.

True - a nice flexibility. The Sony DSC-P1 also does this.

Although the pics may only end up being used at 640x480, you'll tend to
get better quality from larger originals reduced with Photoshop. More
data is better on the whole.

I'd also look at quality of lens - that's one of the big let-downs of
cheaper
cameras. There's a higher end Sony which has Zeiss lenses (and
interchangeable
ones too). I'd expect interchangeables to become more common in the
higher end cameras.

Cheers
Martin


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From roselli at earthlink.net  Sun Nov 25 11:19:47 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sun Nov 25 11:19:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP & Access - Using the same variable twice
In-Reply-To: <001f01c1759d$014fb240$5da2c63d@chris>
Message-ID: <3C00E19F.6367.11F4F2F9@localhost>

> From: "Christian Anderson" 
[...]
> My server is somewhere in teh USA, and Im in Japan.  I want to have a
> script that pulls things out according to the current date, but with
> the big time difference, I dont know what I can do.
> 
> So in my select statement, do I do a WHERE dDATE = [fn_serverdate](or
> whatever that is, I dont really remember) + 14 hours ?
[...]

this depends... i had a site where i needed to calculate the time in 
the netherlands while the server sat on the US east coast... since i 
had to display the time, i already had a chunk of ASP script to do 
the conversion, so i didn't need to do it in my SQL statement as 
well... that chunk of script (which you can easily make into a 
function):

<%
'## Generate Netherlands time by adding 6 to east coast time

rightNow = Now
nowHour = Hour(DateAdd("h",6,rightNow))

IF nowHour = 0 THEN
	nowHour = 12
	AmPm = "AM"
ELSEIF nowHour > 12 THEN
	nowHour = nowHour - 12
	AmPm = "PM"
ELSEIF nowHour = 12 THEN
	AmPm = "PM"
ELSE
	AmPm = "AM"
END IF

nowMinute = Minute(rightNow)

IF nowMinute < 10 THEN
	nowMinute = "0" & nowMinute
END IF

%>

when i called it in my script to display on the page:
<% = nowHour %>:<% = nowMinute %> <% = AmPm %>

however, you'll need the 24-hour format for the SQL query, i 
assume, and i'm sorry to say i can't find that part of my script... but 
this should get you started in the right direction...




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Sun Nov 25 11:43:04 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Sun Nov 25 11:43:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: removing claret from IE (Here's how to do it)
Message-ID: 

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Rob

The BFD is that removing it (to save your annoyance) makes the site
entirely unusable to certain classes of user. Who will suffer more than
annoyance.

This is the kind of thinking which says "No, but steps look better on all
buildings -
why do we need to have ramps? Of course ballot papers shouldn't be in
braille -
we don't want blind people voting after all. It's too much trouble to put
that
flood warning out on the TV, so we'll only do radio"

This is why we have laws - because some people will always be this
ignorant.

And also, to design anything but a personal project entirely for yourself
is
really rather arrogant. If you're designing for a client, I'm sure that
they'll thank
you for turning away 10% of the audience at the door. And given that a
dissatisfied person complains to (on average) 11 other people, you're
certainly gaining a powerful viral reputation for the client. Just not one
they'll thank you for.

Cheers
Martin


To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:  [thelist] RE:  removing claret from IE (Here's how to do it)


Frankly, I don't see the what the BFD is about this -- "accessibility" or
otherwise.  I find the dotted lines to be intensely annoying (esp. on image
maps), and they aren't rendered in most browsers other than IE anyway, so
that (IMHO) makes any argument for accessibility moot.  The claret is not a
standard as such, although it is common to most Micro$oft products.



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From kjs at ratking.co.uk  Sun Nov 25 13:26:41 2001
From: kjs at ratking.co.uk (Kevin Stevens)
Date: Sun Nov 25 13:26:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Printing IE Cell Background Colour
References: <20011121210245.14017.qmail@email.com>
Message-ID: <00bf01c175e7$21398f00$57b81e3e@k0k8u7>

> All of these work on screen, but none print, so leaving me with a white
table. Any ideas?

Open your browser, go to Tools > Internet Options > Advanced and about two
thirds of the way down is a box that says "print background colors and
images". Make sure this is ticked, I don't know if it is by default.

HTH
Kevin Stevens
kjs at ratking.co.uk





From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk  Sun Nov 25 13:30:29 2001
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Sun Nov 25 13:30:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: removing claret from IE (Here's how to do it)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1006716753.3423.2.camel@cincinnati.home>

On Sun, 2001-11-25 at 16:53, martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com wrote:

[snip]

> And given that a dissatisfied person complains to (on average) 
> 11 other people, 


Got any more info on this Martin? 

Seems like an interesting factoid to be able to present to clients when
matters of usability and accessibilty crop up.

G.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/




From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Sun Nov 25 14:55:03 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Sun Nov 25 14:55:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Style problems
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011125144519.01d935b8@redhotsweeps.com>

I am changing my pages to use style sheets but am running into some 
problems with the link colors.  I have set the page link colors to white of 
non-visited, yellow for hover and black for visited.

My problem is when the links appear over a white background.  I can't 
figure out how to change those specific links to a different hover 
color.  Can anyone help?

If it'll help, you can see the page at http://www.redhotsweeps.com/page1.htm

Thanks




From mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru  Sun Nov 25 15:32:50 2001
From: mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru (Maryanna Nesina)
Date: Sun Nov 25 15:32:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Style problems
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011125144519.01d935b8@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <002501c175f0$0c818460$667aa8c0@mar>

In what brousers did you tested it?
I saw this page in IE5 (for Win9xx) and everything was OK
All the links (i.e. Aphrodette Drawing) on white bg changed into yellow when
the pointer was moved over (the same in another td on gray and green
backcolor)
Best regards,
Maryanna Nesina
mar at mail.bio.pu.ru
http://www.bio.pu.ru/~mar

> I am changing my pages to use style sheets but am running into some
> problems with the link colors.  I have set the page link colors to white
of
> non-visited, yellow for hover and black for visited.
>
> My problem is when the links appear over a white background.  I can't
> figure out how to change those specific links to a different hover
> color.  Can anyone help?
>
> If it'll help, you can see the page at
http://www.redhotsweeps.com/page1.htm
>
> Thanks
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>



From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Sun Nov 25 15:37:18 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Sun Nov 25 15:37:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Style problems
In-Reply-To: <002501c175f0$0c818460$667aa8c0@mar>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011125144519.01d935b8@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011125153506.02cb5ec8@redhotsweeps.com>

Right.  I don't want that.  The yellow on white is hard to see.  I want to 
make it a different color, but I can't figure out how.

Chris

At 02:30 PM 11/25/2001, you wrote:
>In what brousers did you tested it?
>I saw this page in IE5 (for Win9xx) and everything was OK
>All the links (i.e. Aphrodette Drawing) on white bg changed into yellow when
>the pointer was moved over (the same in another td on gray and green
>backcolor)
>Best regards,
>Maryanna Nesina
>mar at mail.bio.pu.ru
>http://www.bio.pu.ru/~mar
>
> > I am changing my pages to use style sheets but am running into some
> > problems with the link colors.  I have set the page link colors to white
>of
> > non-visited, yellow for hover and black for visited.
> >
> > My problem is when the links appear over a white background.  I can't
> > figure out how to change those specific links to a different hover
> > color.  Can anyone help?
> >
> > If it'll help, you can see the page at
>http://www.redhotsweeps.com/page1.htm
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From djc at members.evolt.org  Sun Nov 25 16:05:51 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Sun Nov 25 16:05:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] blank messages
References: 
Message-ID: <3C016B11.2000907@members.evolt.org>

Hi Alastair -

Thanks for the heads up.. I checked into this and sure enough, you got a 
couple blank emails.. It looks like it may have been a prob with your 
btinternet's mail server, but should be taken care of now. I'll keep an 
eye on it, lemme know if you see anything else out of the ordinary :)

.djc.

Alastair Murdoch wrote:

> has anybody else been getting messages from thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> with no subject or body??
> 
> I've had about half a dozen today and a few yesterday.
> 
> Alastair





From marke.anderson at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 25 16:33:01 2001
From: marke.anderson at btinternet.com (Mark Anderson)
Date: Sun Nov 25 16:33:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] General ASP Question
Message-ID: 

For my own curiosity does anyone know if it is possible to add data to the
form's collection, as if you were "POST" BUT without having to use the
submit button? I want to use asp pages and add form variables from within
the code and if so how?

Mark Anderson
mailto:marke.anderson at btinternet.com





From emailus at carbonchip.com  Sun Nov 25 16:43:47 2001
From: emailus at carbonchip.com (Carbon Chip)
Date: Sun Nov 25 16:43:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Style problems
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011125153506.02cb5ec8@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: 

Chris:

I've posted an example of how-to at http://www.carbonchip.com/evolt2, with
the same code below.

Hope this helps.

Banrett



CODE:::



Different color rollover states for hyperlinks using CSS





Different colours for different hyperlinks


Link
One - evolt.org : Green on mouseOut, Blue on mouseOver


Link Two - browsers.evolt.org : Red on mouseOut, White on
mouseOver





:::END OF CODE








-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of CDitty
Sent: 25 November 2001 21:37
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Style problems


Right.  I don't want that.  The yellow on white is hard to see.  I want to
make it a different color, but I can't figure out how.

Chris

At 02:30 PM 11/25/2001, you wrote:
>In what brousers did you tested it?
>I saw this page in IE5 (for Win9xx) and everything was OK
>All the links (i.e. Aphrodette Drawing) on white bg changed into yellow
when
>the pointer was moved over (the same in another td on gray and green
>backcolor)
>Best regards,
>Maryanna Nesina
>mar at mail.bio.pu.ru
>http://www.bio.pu.ru/~mar
>
> > I am changing my pages to use style sheets but am running into some
> > problems with the link colors.  I have set the page link colors to white
>of
> > non-visited, yellow for hover and black for visited.
> >
> > My problem is when the links appear over a white background.  I can't
> > figure out how to change those specific links to a different hover
> > color.  Can anyone help?
> >
> > If it'll help, you can see the page at
>http://www.redhotsweeps.com/page1.htm
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From support at inetcomputerproducts.com  Sun Nov 25 16:49:35 2001
From: support at inetcomputerproducts.com (David A. Demko)
Date: Sun Nov 25 16:49:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Style problems
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011125153506.02cb5ec8@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: 

Hello,

You can set your hover properties just as you set
 .content A:hover {  color : whatever; background-color :
#whatever;}

you just need to include

 .whatever A:hover{ color : whatever; background-color : whatever;}
for all the other classes

David

> I am changing my pages to use style sheets but am running into
some
> > problems with the link colors.  I have set the page link colors
to white
>of
> > non-visited, yellow for hover and black for visited.
> >
> > My problem is when the links appear over a white background.  I
can't
> > figure out how to change those specific links to a different
hover
> > color.  Can anyone help?
> >
> > If it'll help, you can see the page at
>http://www.redhotsweeps.com/page1.htm
> >
> > Thanks





From marty at face2interface.com  Sun Nov 25 17:18:52 2001
From: marty at face2interface.com (Marty Landman)
Date: Sun Nov 25 17:18:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] General ASP Question
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011125180355.00a20e30@pop.ulster.net>

At 10:34 PM 11/25/01 +0000, you wrote:
>For my own curiosity does anyone know if it is possible to add data to the
>form's collection, as if you were "POST" BUT without having to use the
>submit button? I want to use asp pages and add form variables from within
>the code and if so how?

Mark,

What do you want to do that adding hidden form fields won't accomplish?

Marty

Face 2 Interface Web Sites
Website Creation Made SIMPL(tm)
http://face2interface.com/Home/Demo.shtml




From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Sun Nov 25 17:24:05 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Sun Nov 25 17:24:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Style problems
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011125153506.02cb5ec8@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011125172318.01c24e08@redhotsweeps.com>

Thanks.  This is what I was looking for.

Thanks again.

Chris

At 04:42 PM 11/25/2001, you wrote:
>Chris:
>
>I've posted an example of how-to at http://www.carbonchip.com/evolt2, with
>the same code below.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Banrett
>
>
>
>CODE:::
>
>Different colours for different hyperlinks
>
>: Green on mouseOut, Blue on mouseOver
>Link Two - browsers.evolt.org : Red on mouseOut, White on mouseOver
>
>Any probs, email me: banrett at carbonchip.com
>:::END OF CODE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of CDitty
>Sent: 25 November 2001 21:37
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] Style problems
>
>
>Right.  I don't want that.  The yellow on white is hard to see.  I want to
>make it a different color, but I can't figure out how.
>
>Chris
>
>At 02:30 PM 11/25/2001, you wrote:
> >In what brousers did you tested it?
> >I saw this page in IE5 (for Win9xx) and everything was OK
> >All the links (i.e. Aphrodette Drawing) on white bg changed into yellow
>when
> >the pointer was moved over (the same in another td on gray and green
> >backcolor)
> >Best regards,
> >Maryanna Nesina
> >mar at mail.bio.pu.ru
> >http://www.bio.pu.ru/~mar
> >
> > > I am changing my pages to use style sheets but am running into some
> > > problems with the link colors.  I have set the page link colors to white
> >of
> > > non-visited, yellow for hover and black for visited.
> > >
> > > My problem is when the links appear over a white background.  I can't
> > > figure out how to change those specific links to a different hover
> > > color.  Can anyone help?
> > >
> > > If it'll help, you can see the page at
> >http://www.redhotsweeps.com/page1.htm
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------
> > > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> > >
> >
> >---------------------------------------
> >For unsubscribe and other options, including
> >the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From shaunanderson at shaunanderson.info  Sun Nov 25 17:25:46 2001
From: shaunanderson at shaunanderson.info (Shaun Anderson)
Date: Sun Nov 25 17:25:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] General ASP Question
References: 
Message-ID: <002101c17609$41d29eb0$0601a8c0@shaun>

Sorry, but you're out of luck.  The forms collection is stictly read only.

You could try writing your own http headers.  It might be enough, depending
on what you're doing.

Shaun

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Anderson" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 3:34 PM
Subject: [thelist] General ASP Question


> For my own curiosity does anyone know if it is possible to add data to the
> form's collection, as if you were "POST" BUT without having to use the
> submit button? I want to use asp pages and add form variables from within
> the code and if so how?
>
> Mark Anderson
> mailto:marke.anderson at btinternet.com
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From marke.anderson at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 25 17:31:49 2001
From: marke.anderson at btinternet.com (Mark Anderson)
Date: Sun Nov 25 17:31:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] General ASP Question
In-Reply-To: <002101c17609$41d29eb0$0601a8c0@shaun>
Message-ID: 

Thanks Guys for the quick response! I thought that was the answer BUT as I
hadn't seen it in black & white I thought I would ask just in case :-(

Mark Anderson
mailto:marke.anderson at btinternet.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Shaun Anderson
Sent: 25 November 2001 23:31
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] General ASP Question


Sorry, but you're out of luck.  The forms collection is stictly read only.

You could try writing your own http headers.  It might be enough, depending
on what you're doing.

Shaun

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Anderson" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 3:34 PM
Subject: [thelist] General ASP Question


> For my own curiosity does anyone know if it is possible to add data to the
> form's collection, as if you were "POST" BUT without having to use the
> submit button? I want to use asp pages and add form variables from within
> the code and if so how?
>
> Mark Anderson
> mailto:marke.anderson at btinternet.com
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Sun Nov 25 17:33:46 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Sun Nov 25 17:33:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: removing claret from IE (Here's how to do it)
Message-ID: 

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Can't find the citation just now, but the key message is that
while unhappy customers are very likely to tell quite a few people,
happy customers tend to keep it more to themselves (will tell on
average 3 people from memory).

Viral anti-marketing is *much* more significant than the postive stuff
we're used to hearing about. Tell all your friends.


It's really easy to assume that Dilbert is representative - that all
managers are idiots, all HR people are evil, all marketeers are
drunks and all non-technical terminology is confusing doubletalk.

Of course, it's not true - Dilbert has a germ of truth in it, but it's
not at all representative because it's a stereotyped cliche.
The worst isolated examples are brought together. And that's
why it's funny because it's taken to the extreme.

Here's a good example. From Dilbert, it's easy to assume that
all mission statements are tortuous yet vapid collections of
non-sequitours put together at great expense by senior management
who have no idea of the real challenges facing a business.

Yet it needn't be so. Fuji's mission statement when they entered
the UK was 2 words: "Screw Kodak". Which is the perfect mission
for any company who is second in a market. Burger King could
use a similar mission statement. So could Pepsi. So could
Macromedia (although it's a bit closer there and varies from product
to product).

My question is - now that Microsoft have almost achieved their
mission ("A computer on every desktop"), what now? I think
they're now working towards "A Microsoft license in every piece
of electronics".


Cheers
Martin




Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  Re: [thelist] RE: removing claret from IE (Here's how to do it)


On Sun, 2001-11-25 at 16:53, martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com wrote:

[snip]

> And given that a dissatisfied person complains to (on average)
> 11 other people,


Got any more info on this Martin?

Seems like an interesting factoid to be able to present to clients when
matters of usability and accessibilty crop up.

G.

--
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WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/


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From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 25 20:28:35 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Sun Nov 25 20:28:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP & Access - Using the same variable twice
In-Reply-To: <3C00E19F.6367.11F4F2F9@localhost>
Message-ID: <20011126022903.31330.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com>

Would it be more prudent to reference everything in GMT or UTC so
your code is more portable?

Thoughts, anyone?

/rg

From: "Christian Anderson" 
[...]
My server is somewhere in teh USA, and Im in Japan.  I want
to have a script that pulls things out according to the current
date, but with the big time difference, I dont know what I can
do.
So in my select statement, do I do a WHERE dDATE =
[fn_serverdate](or whatever that is, I dont really remember) + 14
hours ?
[...]

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