[thelist] Business/Payment Question........

[aardvark]

> From: "John Corry" <john at neoncowboy.com>
[...] 
> But it doesn't matter. The ones who want to b e difficult about this
> will be difficult. The cheap ones will be cheap. I can wave their
> signoff in their face and 'prove' to them that I'm 'right', but what
> good does that do toward creating a trusting, happy client/services
> provider relationship?

no, you're right... and as you said before, you give the client the 
benefit of the doubt until they prove they don't deserve it... and i do 
that, too... and as a result, some will get in under the radar and 
we'll take it in the can... it's just important to cut those losses as 
soon as you can, minimizing the impact, and trying to make it 
amicable if possible...

bad clients get their own reputation, too...

[...]
> I'd love it if you'd write an article on IA, managing project scope
> and keeping everything rolling along on schedule and on budget. I am
> under the impression that you are particularly skilled at this facet
> of the business and would love to see how you do it. I also suspect
> that your process would be compatible with my personality type...but
> that's subjective.

actually, i'm not remarkable... after starting my company, we put a 
CEO in place who had 20+ years of experience in the consulting 
world and as a CIO... his business experience has rubbed off on 
me enough that i'm not a complete idiot...

that and whatever i'd write would be slightly different the next 
month... we're always re-adjusting, always re-assessing...

but i'd be happy to put some thought into, see if i can come up with 
anything useful...

[...]
> |btw, what does the "working professionals" statement mean?  i
> |have this sneaking suspicion you have no idea what i do for a
> |living... chicken plucking doesn't pay too well, after all...
> 
> It means that everyone here works in this field. Everyone who
> responded to her post has experience in this arena.

gotcha...

> I have a sneaking suspicion that you manage a high volume web
> development firm.

close... i'm one of a few, so my weakness get filled in by the 
strengths of others...

> Nah. You're alright. Of course, you *are* a dick, but that's nothing
> to worry about.

well, we're agreed on that, then...

> I do hope you'll consider an article outlining AS's development
> process from needs determination to project scope decisions to
> budgeting/bidding.

i will...

> Many of us here have been thrust into these positions with only common
> sense as our guide. I didn't go to business school and don't even have
> a halfway decent set of people skills, client management is a weak
> spot in my business. After being a independent consultant for 3 years
> I'm starting to learn (slowly) how not to get burned.

i look back on my freelance days and am horrified at how i let 
myself get jerked around... i used to be terrible at this...

> I think I got mad at your cavalier way of just matter of factly
> dismissing the thoughts of me and Erik, thoughts that are the product
> of *real world struggles* with these very issues. I bought the right
> to give Sandi that advice with agony man, paid for it with blood,
> sweat and tears...and you come along and just say, 'Oooh, don't do
> that! That guy really needs to work on his scope/bid/client management
> skills'. Guess that's more of a personal development issue than a web
> development issue.

no, i see your point, and i'm sorry i came off that way... i was just 
trying to push the need to work with the client before becoming 
adversarial -- based solely on my interpretation of the facts as 
presented...  that and i see a lot of client bashing, and i get a little 
touchy on that subject...

> Anyway, sorry for the vibe.

it's all good...