[thelist] Re: IE and Standards Compliance (was: Re: news.com article on browsers and mainstream sites etc..)

[Tim Luoma]

James Aylard wrote:

>    I support standards-compliance, and truly hope that Microsoft develops a
>fully standards-compliant browser. I also hope that Microsoft would make IE
>fully HTML 4.x/CSS 2-compliant before it innovates additional proprietary
>features.
>

If they did that I would be extremely pleased.

I think of it like I think about household chores.  Imagine you give a
list of things that you expected to be done:

1) Clean Garage
2) Empty Trash
3) Wash dishes

and you come home to find out that your son/daughter (I'll say son
because that's what I have ;-) had taken out the trash, loaded the
dishwasher but not run it or emptied it, and the garage was still a mess.

You go to your son who is in his room watching TV and say "Why didn't
you clean the garage and finish the dishes?"  Imagine he replies, "Yeah
but I washed the windows and put all my clothes in the hamper."

Would you be satisfied, or would you feel that he should have completed
the assigned chores before doing anything else?

To me it seems like that... or the kid who has a low grade in a class
going to the teacher at the end of the semester asking for extra credit
when she didn't do the regular coursework during the rest of the course.
 Why should the teacher give extra credit for additional work done when
the assigned work was not done, or done poorly?

Don't get me wrong either, it's not just Microsoft, although their power
gives them a particular advantage over their proprietary hacks.... I
screamed bloody murder on the Opera-Users list when Opera failed to fix
complaincy bugs in their browser but added a newsreader, mail client,
and ICQ client.

You don't get any credit for the "innovations" (which benefit your
market share and stranglehold over the industry) until you get to the
level of standards compliance.  The irony is that Microsoft has the
biggest team of developers/testers in the world and has the most
resources available for creating a compliant browser, and yet they
don't.  If they did that, if their browser was 100% standards compliant,
then all we'd be able to blast them on would be security and speed.  To
whom much is given, much is expected.

Don't give me colored scollbars before you can handle "border-type:
outset" or <q> or "float: right" ... I don't know what showModalDialog()
 is, but I'm guessing JavaScript (not even EMCAScript) -- the land of
proprietary extensions and one of the main reasons why I have to use IE
at certain sites.  Is there a published "standard" anywhere (even on MS'
website) for other browser developer groups to follow, or is this like
the "innovation" of making Word load faster than WordPerfect because of
hidden and proprietary hooks built into the OS that no one outside of MS
knows about?

I hope I don't sound rabit-anti-MS or anti-IE... I'm not really... I've
spent a lot of time thinking about this and trying to evaluate things
objectively, and my reasoned response is to be upset about it.  Others
may disagree, but I hope I'm not lumped in with the "Winblows, Linux
rulz!" folks

TjL