From jjk3 at msstate.edu Sat Aug 10 12:49:01 2002 From: jjk3 at msstate.edu (Joel Konkle-Parker) Date: Sat Aug 10 12:49:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Java VM Message-ID: <1028832734.3d52bddec403f@webmail.msstate.edu> What are the differences, and relative benefits, of the Sun Java VM vs. Microsoft's VM? Objective advice, please, no "because microsoft sucks". -joel ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.ballsome.com From dm at lgcy.com Sat Aug 10 12:59:00 2002 From: dm at lgcy.com (Daniel Medley) Date: Sat Aug 10 12:59:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Not receiving emails way OT Message-ID: <000801c2402f$5d76c2e0$eeca0ed0@medley> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I had to reformat my puter, lost everything. I'm now back on line and am not receiving any emails from the list. Can someone communicate with me? Peace, Daniel -- From M.B.Trimpe at student.tue.nl Sat Aug 10 14:18:02 2002 From: M.B.Trimpe at student.tue.nl (Michiel Trimpe) Date: Sat Aug 10 14:18:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] best way to create "back" button In-Reply-To: <3D39C11F@zathras> References: <3D39C11F@zathras> Message-ID: <138126012396.20020809123732@student.tue.nl> I tend to use something like this (PERL): print "BACK" ; JY> JavaScript and the referer are pretty much the ways to do this. As you've JY> mentioned though, neither are completely reliable since user agents aren't JY> required to implement them. You can combine them by using document.write() to JY> write out the link and placing the referer variable in a

for your main content, and for your menus. The usual > way is to use

s -

. Hmm... what about the new nl? -- Lach __________________________________________ Web: http://illuminosity.net/ E-mail: lach @ illuminosity.net MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org __________________________________________ From Christopher at ideadesigners.com Sun Aug 11 00:54:18 2002 From: Christopher at ideadesigners.com (Christopher Joseph) Date: Sun Aug 11 00:54:18 2002 Subject: [thelist] Page Render condition In-Reply-To: <004001c23a3f$4eee5cb0$370914ac@nwatkins> Message-ID: Hi List, One of our designers is having a problem with a .net generated page that suffers from a rendering/loading race condition. An event is triggered before the page has finished loading in the client browser and as a result an object does not exist at the point at which it is required by the event. Moving the code to an earlier point in the page fixes the problem but results in rendering issues in Mozilla base browsers (this rendering issues is resolved if the page is reloaded from a cached copy). The code in question is menuing code that is visible/nonvisible dependant on events. Is it possible to instruct the client browser load the page before displaying it using a tag of some kind? Thanks in advance, Chris. From framar at interlog.com Sun Aug 11 00:56:08 2002 From: framar at interlog.com (Frank) Date: Sun Aug 11 00:56:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: colour attributes Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020810024508.00a8e688@mail.interlog.com> As far as I understand, colour can be specified in a number of ways in HTML and CSS "white" a limited number of named colours. "#FFFFFF" hexadecimal, three groups of two. rgb(255,255,255) three groups representing, red, green blue. I've been seeing this "#FFF" all over the place for a long time. At first, I thought that it was simply sloppy code. Then I found Eric Meyer using it. I can't seem to find a reference that details the composition of the statement, even on the w3c. I'm feeling kind'a stumped, kind'a dumb. Can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks. Frank Marion framar at interlog.com From hugh.miller23 at ntlworld.com Sun Aug 11 01:29:01 2002 From: hugh.miller23 at ntlworld.com (Shug Miller) Date: Sun Aug 11 01:29:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Client troubles References: <20020802160330.76412.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005001c23e53$5f68b320$89620450@hughmill> This problem is partly due to the desperation of providers like BT to sign up peoples eyes. There are a load of companies offering a "website" - pre-templated etc as part of a deal to some monthly contract as ISP/Host whatever. On top of this there are too many "My pal is going to do one" - yeah, in Frontpage, with Frames and 200k Jpegs. The printing industry is suffering a similar thing - people suddenly have PC's in the house and think that an MS-Word file is "Artwork Supplied" and thus debate why they are being charged an extra ?2000 to re-do the leaflet they want to buy. This will settle in time I'm sure. Like all markets an entry level price will be established that allow people like us to eat, and, hopefully, drink... Shug > That is definitely an unreasonable reaction. Boy, I remember when I > worked from home and would deliver a cost estimate, and I knew it was > fair, and I KNEW the client would object because, pardon my french, > they were idiots. > > I guess it goes with the territory, but I had that piece of land. Not > much you can do but educate them as best you can. Pretty tough in a > tight economy. > > Tom > --- Daniel Fascia wrote: > > Something that never ceases to amaze me about the web industry > > is how people haven't got a clue of the cost of things and have > > little > > or no appreciation of skills involved in what they are paying > > for... > > > > Today a client complained at my 'extortionate' rates because I > > quoted > > ?2500 for a company site allowing an online job database > > which they can update (with MT) and a full site design including > > imaging.... > > > > is it me or is that an unreasonable reaction??? From axe at suburbia.com.au Sun Aug 11 11:51:45 2002 From: axe at suburbia.com.au (Chris) Date: Sun Aug 11 11:51:45 2002 Subject: [thelist] Not receiving emails way OT In-Reply-To: <000801c2402f$5d76c2e0$eeca0ed0@medley> Message-ID: I haven't been recieving many messages from thelist either. Perhaps this has something to do with the server move... Regards, Chris -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Daniel Medley Sent: Saturday, 10 August 2002 15:03 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Not receiving emails way OT -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I had to reformat my puter, lost everything. I'm now back on line and am not receiving any emails from the list. Can someone communicate with me? Peace, Daniel -- -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Aug 11 11:57:00 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Aug 11 11:57:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: colour attributes In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020810024508.00a8e688@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3D563FED.2084.B641D33A@localhost> > From: Frank [...] > I've been seeing this "#FFF" all over the place for a long time. At > first, I thought that it was simply sloppy code. Then I found Eric > Meyer using it. I can't seem to find a reference that details the > composition of the statement, even on the w3c. I'm feeling kind'a > stumped, kind'a dumb. http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS1#color-units "The format of an RGB value in hexadecimal notation is a '#' immediately followed by either three or six hexadecimal characters. The three-digit RGB notation (#rgb) is converted into six-digit form (#rrggbb) by replicating digits, not by adding zeros. For example, #fb0 expands to #ffbb00. This makes sure that white (#ffffff) can be specified with the short notation (#fff) and removes any dependencies on the color depth of the display." -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20 ISBN: 1904151035 From edc at wnc.quik.co.nz Sun Aug 11 11:59:00 2002 From: edc at wnc.quik.co.nz (michael ensor) Date: Sun Aug 11 11:59:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: colour attributes References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020810024508.00a8e688@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: <001401c2410a$3bf0a420$f76237d2@oemcomputer> Names: there are sixteen 'names' that can be used safely. Hex: #rrggbb OR abbreviated where there are two color values the same contiguous, so that #rrggbb can be shorthanded as #rgb Decimal: rgb(rrr, ggg,bbb) Percentage: rgb(rrr%,ggg%,bbb%) BTW I have found that for some obscure reason that abbreviating #ffffff to #fff is problematical in implentation HTH ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank" To: Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 7:20 PM Subject: [thelist] CSS: colour attributes > > As far as I understand, colour can be specified in a number of ways in HTML > and CSS > > "white" a limited number of named colours. > > "#FFFFFF" hexadecimal, three groups of two. > > rgb(255,255,255) three groups representing, red, green blue. > > I've been seeing this "#FFF" all over the place for a long time. At first, > I thought that it was simply sloppy code. Then I found Eric Meyer using it. > I can't seem to find a reference that details the composition of the > statement, even on the w3c. I'm feeling kind'a stumped, kind'a dumb. > > Can someone point me in the right direction? > > Thanks. > > > Frank Marion > framar at interlog.com > > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 2/08/02 From edc at wnc.quik.co.nz Sun Aug 11 12:00:46 2002 From: edc at wnc.quik.co.nz (michael ensor) Date: Sun Aug 11 12:00:46 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: colour attributes #2 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020810024508.00a8e688@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: <000301c2410c$ea206600$be6237d2@oemcomputer> Further to the first post, after digging out one of my reference books, this: A "keyword color name" specifies an RGB color based on a keyword specifying a particular colour.Both HTML and CSS provide 16 standard colour names that can be used to specify colours: black, white, aqua, blue, fuschia, gray [I think that through some quirk you need to spell it grey] , green, lime, maroon, navy, olive, purple, red, silver, teal and yellow. I haven't checked this reference but try: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/types HTH ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank" To: Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 7:20 PM Subject: [thelist] CSS: colour attributes > > As far as I understand, colour can be specified in a number of ways in HTML > and CSS > > "white" a limited number of named colours. > > "#FFFFFF" hexadecimal, three groups of two. > > rgb(255,255,255) three groups representing, red, green blue. > > I've been seeing this "#FFF" all over the place for a long time. At first, > I thought that it was simply sloppy code. Then I found Eric Meyer using it. > I can't seem to find a reference that details the composition of the > statement, even on the w3c. I'm feeling kind'a stumped, kind'a dumb. > > Can someone point me in the right direction? > > Thanks. > > > Frank Marion > framar at interlog.com > > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 2/08/02 From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Aug 11 12:03:16 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Aug 11 12:03:16 2002 Subject: [thelist] HTML as data structure In-Reply-To: <3D4AAC95.9040303@cyberfuddle.com> Message-ID: <3D5641A9.2233.B6489808@localhost> > From: Mark Gallagher [...] > Close. XML and HTML are both used for structure and semantics - > they're two separate markup languages. It's like, oh, comparing PHP > and Perl :-). thinking of HTML as a subset of SGML, and XHTML as a subset of XML has helped some people over here understand it better... [...] > If possible. Unfortunately, sometimes you'll need to communicate > something which doesn't exist in HTML: for example, if you wish to > specify a group of elements as a menu, there's no way of saying > for your main content, and for your menus. The usual > way is to use

s -

. there is a element, although it is deprecated in HTML4.01: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#edef-MENU some people like to find more semantically appropriate elements for their navigation, which is why so many people are wrangling with using

, , , etc., offer a lot of value... XHTML 2.0 has a new element for just this sort of thing, although the browser support may be, well, lacking (after all, it just came out last week, and we can't expect browsers to support new elements from specs not yet released)... http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/mod-list.html#edef_list_nl -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20 ISBN: 1904151035 From mark at cyberfuddle.com Sun Aug 11 12:25:59 2002 From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher) Date: Sun Aug 11 12:25:59 2002 Subject: [thelist] Java VM References: <1028832734.3d52bddec403f@webmail.msstate.edu> Message-ID: <3D562006.300@cyberfuddle.com> Joel Konkle-Parker wrote: > What are the differences, and relative benefits, of the Sun Java VM vs. > Microsoft's VM? Objective advice, please, no "because microsoft sucks". I can compile my Java source on a Windows machine, take it home, and run the class file on my Linux machine. I don't think Microsoft are offering versions of its VM for Linux users, are they? Sun are. -- Mark Gallagher Desperately attempting - and failing - to stay on topic since 1999 fuddleriffic - http://cyberfuddle.com/ blog - http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/ From mark at cyberfuddle.com Sun Aug 11 12:26:00 2002 From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher) Date: Sun Aug 11 12:26:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: colour attributes References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020810024508.00a8e688@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3D561C8D.3020300@cyberfuddle.com> Frank wrote: > > As far as I understand, colour can be specified in a number of ways > in HTML and CSS > > "white" a limited number of named colours. > > "#FFFFFF" hexadecimal, three groups of two. > > rgb(255,255,255) three groups representing, red, green blue. > > I've been seeing this "#FFF" all over the place for a long time. At > first, I thought that it was simply sloppy code. Then I found Eric > Meyer using it. I can't seem to find a reference that details the > composition of the statement, even on the w3c. I'm feeling kind'a > stumped, kind'a dumb. As you correctly pointed out, colour can be specified as #FFFFFF (white), three groups of two. These three groups are: RRGGBB, or two-digit hex Red, two-digit hex Green, and two-digit hex Blue. Where R1 and R2 are equal, G1 and G2 are equal, and B1 and B2 are equal[0], it's not necessary to specify the second R, G, and B. So: #FFFFFF can be written as #FFF, #CCDD33 can be written as #CD3, and so on - the browser will assume the second digit in each group matches the first. Values like #213D94, on the other hand, cannot be shortened. Nor can #080008 - *all* groups must contain digits of equal value (within that group). [0] Fans of the Australian BC's kids' shows will know that not all B's are equal -- Mark Gallagher Desperately attempting - and failing - to stay on topic since 1999 fuddleriffic - http://cyberfuddle.com/ blog - http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/ From mark at cyberfuddle.com Sun Aug 11 12:26:01 2002 From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher) Date: Sun Aug 11 12:26:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] HTML as data structure References: <1028302934.3d4aa856746e6@webmail.msstate.edu> <3D4AAC95.9040303@cyberfuddle.com> <3D55C03A.2070608@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <3D561E44.9040801@cyberfuddle.com> Lachlan Cannon wrote: > Mark Gallagher wrote: > >>> class="bold">something has no structure associated with it, so >>> the bold >>> style should be applied by some other method. >> >> If possible. Unfortunately, sometimes you'll need to communicate >> something which doesn't exist in HTML: for example, if you wish to >> specify a group of elements as a menu, there's no way of saying >> for your main content, and

for your menus. The usual >> way is to use
s -

. > > Hmm... what about the new nl? I was referring to actual menubars - like the much-hated yellow left bar that used to be so popular - and not necessarily lists of menu options. These lists should really be
, at least for now (except in cases, like mine most of the time, where one really couldn't be bothered :-)), and for me this means I often get something like
Menu
Menu Item
. Of course, once XHTML2 comes out, would be appropriate. -- Mark Gallagher Desperately attempting - and failing - to stay on topic since 1999 fuddleriffic - http://cyberfuddle.com/ blog - http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/ From persist1 at io.com Sun Aug 11 13:25:01 2002 From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick) Date: Sun Aug 11 13:25:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] HTTP authentication and NN4... Message-ID: THE SERVER: IIS5 on Win2K, SP status indeterminate but seemingly poor.* THE CLIENT: Netscape 4.7, any platform. THE PROBLEM: HTTP authentication breaks in this circumstance without regard to whether it is Basic or Digest. Works fine on Internet Explorer, though. Has anyone dealt with this problem? Did you fix it? If so, how? *Because I'm used to mounting sites on Apache-served sites, and security isn't part of the SOW. Thanks in advance, -- Ben Henick Web Author At-Large Managing Editor http://www.io.com/persist1/ http://www.digital-web.com/ persist1 at io.com bmh at digital-web.com -- "Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?" "I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid." "We will disguise ourselves as a cow." "Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!" From dn at dittodesign.co.uk Sun Aug 11 13:25:02 2002 From: dn at dittodesign.co.uk (dn at dittodesign.co.uk) Date: Sun Aug 11 13:25:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] test ignore Message-ID: <003301c24113$8178d900$07706ad5@darn> What you doing reading this is says ignore in the subject line =8-) ok, ok, I've recieved no posts since last weekend and suddenly half a dozen this morning. Just wanted to check if the list was back on track. 0945 gmt Darren Yates dn at dittodesign.co.uk http://dittodesign.co.uk 0161 281 1190 From lwkraemer at directvinternet.com Sun Aug 11 13:25:02 2002 From: lwkraemer at directvinternet.com (lon.kraemer) Date: Sun Aug 11 13:25:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: colour attributes References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020810024508.00a8e688@mail.interlog.com> <001401c2410a$3bf0a420$f76237d2@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <001d01c24163$298d9eb0$0201a8c0@yoda> > BTW I have found that for some obscure reason that abbreviating #ffffff to > #fff is problematical in implentation Would you care to share those circumstances? From jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu Sun Aug 11 13:25:03 2002 From: jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu (Jonathon Isaac Swiderski) Date: Sun Aug 11 13:25:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] HTML as data structure In-Reply-To: <3D5641A9.2233.B6489808@localhost> Message-ID: Today, the cows mooved aardvark to write: > XHTML 2.0 has a new element for just this sort of thing, although the > browser support may be, well, lacking (after all, it just came out > last week, and we can't expect browsers to support new elements from > specs not yet released)... It hasn't come out yet. From the Status of Document note (http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/Overview.html#status): This document is the first public working draft of this specification. It should in no way be considered stable, and should not be referenced for any purposes whatsoever. -- Jonathon Isaac Swiderski jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders \\ www.dangercat.net/?id=mt "You can say any foolish thing to a dog and the dog will give you a look that says "My God, you're right! I never would have thought of that!" -- Sean Connery From jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu Sun Aug 11 13:25:04 2002 From: jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu (Jonathon Isaac Swiderski) Date: Sun Aug 11 13:25:04 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: colour attributes #2 In-Reply-To: <000301c2410c$ea206600$be6237d2@oemcomputer> Message-ID: Today, the cows mooved michael ensor to write re keyword color names: > gray [I think that through some quirk you need to spell it grey] Other way round: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/types.html#h-6.5 Gray is primarily American usage; grey is primarily British. In such cases, the W3C almost exclusively uses the American variant. Dictionaries seem somewhat puzzled by this word. The Merriam-Webster and Dictionary.com services (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=grey and http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=grey respectively) list grey as a variant of gray, while the Oxford English Dictionary (http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/00098240 [subscription required]) lists gray as a variant of grey. -- Jonathon Isaac Swiderski jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders \\ www.dangercat.net/?id=mt Reason number #104 to use Linux: That penguin is too damn cool. From lwkraemer at directvinternet.com Sun Aug 11 13:57:03 2002 From: lwkraemer at directvinternet.com (lon.kraemer) Date: Sun Aug 11 13:57:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: colour attributes References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020810024508.00a8e688@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: <001301c2413a$bbe91b00$0201a8c0@yoda> > As far as I understand, colour can be specified in a number of ways in HTML > and CSS > > "white" a limited number of named colours. > > "#FFFFFF" hexadecimal, three groups of two. > > rgb(255,255,255) three groups representing, red, green blue. > > I've been seeing this "#FFF" all over the place for a long time. At first, > I thought that it was simply sloppy code. Then I found Eric Meyer using it. > I can't seem to find a reference that details the composition of the > statement, even on the w3c. I'm feeling kind'a stumped, kind'a dumb. > > Can someone point me in the right direction? CSS allows this abbreviated color value syntax. It's useful only when the hex values come in pairs (like the so-called "web-safe" colors). #69c = #6699cc #333 = #333333 However, #3d3d2a cannot be abbreviated in this fashion. http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/css/units.html#color -- Lon Kraemer ----------------------------------------- From dbaxo at ihug.co.nz Sun Aug 11 13:59:08 2002 From: dbaxo at ihug.co.nz (Duncan O'Neill) Date: Sun Aug 11 13:59:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: colour attributes References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020810024508.00a8e688@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3D561E4C.20404@ihug.co.nz> Frank wrote: > > As far as I understand, colour can be specified in a number of ways in HTML > and CSS > I've been seeing this "#FFF" all over the place for a long time. At first, > I thought that it was simply sloppy code. Then I found Eric Meyer using it. > I can't seem to find a reference that details the composition of the > statement, even on the w3c. I'm feeling kind'a stumped, kind'a dumb. > > Can someone point me in the right direction? The three-digit form is just a shorthand for the full six-digit form. Each digit in the three-digit form represents a duo of the same digit in the full form. (if that makes sense) i.e. #336699 = #369 #444444 = #444 #123 = #112233 http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/css/ hth, -- ===================================================== Duncan O'Neill "Smith The Reporter" http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dbaxo/urban_legend.htm ===================================================== From e.j.martin at chello.nl Sun Aug 11 14:01:01 2002 From: e.j.martin at chello.nl (Edwin Martin) Date: Sun Aug 11 14:01:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Java VM In-Reply-To: <1028832734.3d52bddec403f@webmail.msstate.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020811203312.01f64608@mail.chello.nl> Hi Joel Konkle-Parker, >What are the differences, and relative benefits, of the Sun Java VM vs. >Microsoft's VM? Objective advice, please, no "because microsoft sucks". Microsoft's JVM is stuck at version 1.1.4. Sun's JVM is at version 1.4 and is much more mature. Microsoft's JVM only runs on Microsoft Windows. Sun's JVM runs on a variety of platforms. Microsoft's JVM has hooks to the Win32 API's (J/Direct). Sun's JVM has also hooks for native code, but you have to develop them yourself. Microsoft's JVM was very fast, but this is probably a moot point because of its age. Newer JVM's not only made progress in features, but also in speed. Microsoft has publicly stated they won't support Java soon. (In a couple of years?). http://www.microsoft.com/java/ http://java.sun.com/j2se/ IBM also has a nice JVM: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/java/ Bye, Edwin Martin. From webguru at vsnl.net Sun Aug 11 14:06:00 2002 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Sun Aug 11 14:06:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Helloooo... Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812003422.01fdc250@203.197.12.4> As you may have noticed, thelist mail is flowing again. For those of you who wondered whether all the mail had disappeared into the void of cyberspace, you probably missed the admin notice sent out explaining that we were physically moving our servers to a new location, hence the downtime. So now that we're back, let the discussions flow... Regards, Madhu From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Aug 11 14:09:00 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Aug 11 14:09:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Not receiving emails way OT In-Reply-To: <000801c2402f$5d76c2e0$eeca0ed0@medley> Message-ID: <3D563F27.16134.B63ECE0C@localhost> > From: "Daniel Medley" > > I had to reformat my puter, lost everything. I'm now back on line and > am not receiving any emails from the list. Can someone communicate > with me? thelist has been down for a few days for a server move... it's back up, but it might take some time for the DNS to work its way around the web for all our members... details at: http://evolt.org/article/list/18/35810/ -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20 ISBN: 1904151035 From pkaulbak at idirect.ca Sun Aug 11 14:10:02 2002 From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback) Date: Sun Aug 11 14:10:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] Java VM In-Reply-To: <1028832734.3d52bddec403f@webmail.msstate.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020811103325.00a9d370@mail.idirect.ca> In the hour of 01:52 PM 8/8/2002 -0500, Joel Konkle-Parker spoke this: >What are the differences, and relative benefits, of the Sun Java VM vs. >Microsoft's VM? Objective advice, please, no "because microsoft sucks". > >-joel The new MS JVM is based on an older Java engine, I think I read that it is 5 years old, so that if you wish to run applications newer than that then you will need another JVM either from Sun or IBM. Peter Kaulback From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Aug 11 14:14:01 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Aug 11 14:14:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] HTML as data structure In-Reply-To: References: <3D5641A9.2233.B6489808@localhost> Message-ID: <3D567E80.18852.B7364180@localhost> > From: Jonathon Isaac Swiderski > > > XHTML 2.0 has a new element for just this sort of thing, although > > the browser support may be, well, lacking (after all, it just came > > out last week, and we can't expect browsers to support new elements > > from specs not yet released)... > > It hasn't come out yet. From the Status of Document note > (http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/Overview.html#status): > > This document is the first public working draft of this > specification. It should in no way be considered stable, and should > not be referenced for any purposes whatsoever. actually, that's what i meant... by came out, i meant the public working draft... final version (to recommendation) will be a long time coming is my guess... -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20 ISBN: 1904151035 From kstevens89 at comcast.net Sun Aug 11 14:38:01 2002 From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens) Date: Sun Aug 11 14:38:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Helloooo... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812003422.01fdc250@203.197.12.4> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812003422.01fdc250@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: Actually I sent 4 e-mail since the server came back to our realm, yet none have appeared. To the Gods of electronic mail let this one fly. At 12:37 AM +0530 8/12/02, Madhu Menon wrote: >As you may have noticed, thelist mail is flowing again. > >For those of you who wondered whether all the mail had disappeared into the >void of cyberspace, you probably missed the admin notice sent out >explaining that we were physically moving our servers to a new location, >hence the downtime. > >So now that we're back, let the discussions flow... > >Regards, > >Madhu > >-- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! -- Sincerely, Kid Stevens "Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man." -Francis Bacon From joshua at waetech.com Sun Aug 11 14:56:01 2002 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Sun Aug 11 14:56:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] A bunch of tips Message-ID: <01c701c24170$6da99c90$0200a8c0@client1> If you are using a T-SQL step of an SQL Agent Job to update fields from one table to another, check your field names carefully. The problem I ran into was that I was using a field called "DATE" from table 1 to update table 2. Even though both fields were of type "datetime", the query still threw an Arithmetic Overflow error. What made this so crazy was that the same query, when executed through the data view, executed perfectly. Renaming to source field to DATE1 cleared up the error. P.S. The field name "DATE" came off an import... that's not a name I'd normally use in a table. To force a failure of a step in a Job, use the following code: Err.Throw Backing up for non-reinstallable data is a really good idea. Setting up an inexpensive RAID configuration on your server (using an extra identical IDE HD plus an Adaptec or Promise FasTrak controller) is well worth the investment. The extra $200-$300 (USD) will save you lots of time/money when your HD goes bad. When purchasing a new HD in an emergency situation, stop and think about other items you may need--drive mounting rails, new ribbon cables, etc. You never know when the old ones aren't going to work with the new drive or might have too much wear and tear. Take care when troubleshooting HD's. It is possible to make a bad situation worse by accidentally ripping the Female adapter clean off the IDE ribbon cable at 11pm when the only store open is WalMart... and no, WalMart does not carry IDE Cables. When shopping for IDE cables, make sure you look around before simply buying a cable. An ATA/133 IDE cable by itself can run as high as $30 (USD) a piece. However, most RAID controllers come with them as well. And, as I've found out, a $10 (USD) 5 1/4 -> 3 1/2 inch adapter kit sometimes comes with one as well. P.S. Anybody else been getting a lot of corrupted files when downloading Software/SDK's from Microsoft lately? During my process of rebuilding I had to re-download a couple of files more than a few times to get an uncorrupted file. I thought it might've been my NIC driver, but files from other sites did not have the same problems as those from Microsoft. -joshua From les.lytollis at morse.com Sun Aug 11 14:59:00 2002 From: les.lytollis at morse.com (Les Lytollis) Date: Sun Aug 11 14:59:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] ISAPI extensions or servlets Message-ID: <0F59E973A6C7D511886F00508BFC92971619C0@DBYEXCH1> Hi Guys, I have a rather vague question, mainly because I don't really know what I'm talking about;) I am completing a part-time degree course and I am desinging a PHP app to manage online auction accounts. Basically a "console" where the user can manage all his accounts and stock from one place. So, for example he adds his eBay username/password to the app and when he chooses some stock to auction and clicks "upload to eBay", the whole thing is done seamlessly from the console (using eBay's API). My project tutor wants me to include some discussion of comparative technology. Now I know I could just do the same using straight ASP/JSP but I don't want to get into the whole PHP vs ASP vs JSP performance thing, which is subjective at best - so my questions are: If I were to do this project with ASP as an ISAPI extension and wrap the thing up into dlls or use JSP/servlets, would it be possible to distribute this app as something the user could download and drop onto his webspace at his ISP and start using it, or do you need some higher level access to the web/app servers to get this kind of thing up and running? Are there any other advantages/disadvantages angles other than the dreaded "A ran faster than B" mentioned above? Hope this makes some sense - if it doesn't, please feel free to ask more questions / ridicule me / suggest a new career;) TIA Lez -------------------------------------- Lez Lytollis Internet Developer, Morse Professional Services Morse Group Ltd Tel: +44 (0)1332 826065 Fax: +44 (0)1332 826044 www.morse.com This email and any attachments are confidential and are intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient of this email and have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email and then delete it from your system. From szh at softhome.net Sun Aug 11 15:03:01 2002 From: szh at softhome.net (Syed Zeeshan Haider) Date: Sun Aug 11 15:03:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Line Break in Titles Message-ID: <008301c24144$5e059180$c50987cb@haidersystem> Hello Experts, Is it possible to add line breaks in the titles of links and images? Thank you, Syed Zeeshan Haider. http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ From szh at softhome.net Sun Aug 11 15:08:00 2002 From: szh at softhome.net (Syed Zeeshan Haider) Date: Sun Aug 11 15:08:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver 4: Layout Tables Message-ID: <008201c24144$5c27f7e0$c50987cb@haidersystem> Hello Experts, I am using Dreamweaver 4 to create a web site. The site has to be made with layout tables and I create them with the system provided in Dreamweaver 4. Nevertheless, there is a problem. When I create new cells, Dreamweaver resizes the previously made cells and messes up the whole table. It happens when I create a smaller cell under a larger cell. Such cells are enlarged during typing in them and consequently other cells are shrunk to smaller sizes. Can somebody tell me some trick to solve this problem? Thank you, Syed Zeeshan Haider. http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ From kstevens89 at comcast.net Sun Aug 11 15:08:55 2002 From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens) Date: Sun Aug 11 15:08:55 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: colour attributes In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020810024508.00a8e688@mail.interlog.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020810024508.00a8e688@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: Sure can, it will break in some browsers if not properly tagged and closed off. If you were on w3c then the CSS is probably the hardest to navigate. I downloaded the css2.pdf document by searching for it since I knew the file name. I use stylemaster for CSS since I get free updates when the spec changes and it warns when a browser won't support it. http://www.westciv.com >As far as I understand, colour can be specified in a number of ways in HTML >and CSS > >"white" a limited number of named colours. > >"#FFFFFF" hexadecimal, three groups of two. > >rgb(255,255,255) three groups representing, red, green blue. > >I've been seeing this "#FFF" all over the place for a long time. At first, >I thought that it was simply sloppy code. Then I found Eric Meyer using it. >I can't seem to find a reference that details the composition of the >statement, even on the w3c. I'm feeling kind'a stumped, kind'a dumb. > >Can someone point me in the right direction? > >Thanks. > > >Frank Marion >framar at interlog.com > > > >-- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! -- Sincerely, Kid Stevens "Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man." -Francis Bacon From jjk3 at msstate.edu Sun Aug 11 15:13:01 2002 From: jjk3 at msstate.edu (Joel Konkle-Parker) Date: Sun Aug 11 15:13:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Java VM In-Reply-To: <3D562006.300@cyberfuddle.com> References: <1028832734.3d52bddec403f@webmail.msstate.edu> <3D562006.300@cyberfuddle.com> Message-ID: <1029096709.3d56c50542b90@webmail.msstate.edu> Well, ok, that's understandable. But I don't have a Linux machine, and I don't know Java. -joel Quoting Mark Gallagher : > Joel Konkle-Parker wrote: > > What are the differences, and relative benefits, of the Sun Java VM > vs. > > Microsoft's VM? Objective advice, please, no "because microsoft > sucks". > > I can compile my Java source on a Windows machine, take it home, and > run > the class file on my Linux machine. > > I don't think Microsoft are offering versions of its VM for Linux > users, > are they? Sun are. > > -- > Mark Gallagher > Desperately attempting - and failing - to stay on topic since 1999 > fuddleriffic - http://cyberfuddle.com/ > blog - http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/ > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.ballsome.com From webmaster at menouno.com Sun Aug 11 15:15:18 2002 From: webmaster at menouno.com (Massimo Mezzini) Date: Sun Aug 11 15:15:18 2002 Subject: [thelist] Not receiving emails way OT In-Reply-To: References: <000801c2402f$5d76c2e0$eeca0ed0@medley> Message-ID: <3D566F8A.1266.11F2B2A@localhost> On 12 Aug 2002 at 2:14, Chris wrote about RE: [thelist] Not receiving emails : > I haven't been recieving many messages from thelist either. Perhaps > this has something to do with the server move... since Aug 2nd, 10,30 a.m. EST I've only received eleven messages from TheList, including the one I'm replying now. Nothing for 5 days, 2 messages on the 7th, one on the 8th, one on the 9th, two yesterday and 4 so far today ciao Massimo From mpember at phreaker.net Sun Aug 11 15:43:01 2002 From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton) Date: Sun Aug 11 15:43:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Java VM References: <1028832734.3d52bddec403f@webmail.msstate.edu> Message-ID: <3D56093A.6020106@phreaker.net> Joel Konkle-Parker wrote: >What are the differences, and relative benefits, of the Sun Java VM vs. >Microsoft's VM? Objective advice, please, no "because microsoft sucks". > > If you read what Sun has been saying, the M$ version has been "enhanced" at the cost of security. They have also taken steps to halt the rollout of patches and ungrades that add features. This meant that coders had to limit their use of advanced features or risk not being able to run on the M$ JVM. If memory serves, the JDK used shouldn't have much of an effect. The differences are mainly seen when using the entension packages included in these versions. -- Michael Pemberton mpember at phreaker.net ICQ: 12107010 -- Michael Pemberton mpember at phreaker.net ICQ: 12107010 From kstevens89 at comcast.net Sun Aug 11 15:44:56 2002 From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens) Date: Sun Aug 11 15:44:56 2002 Subject: [thelist] A bunch of tips In-Reply-To: <01c701c24170$6da99c90$0200a8c0@client1> References: <01c701c24170$6da99c90$0200a8c0@client1> Message-ID: Microsoft was hacked recently in the download directories. Under investigation by the FBI. At 3:51 PM -0400 8/11/02, Joshua Olson wrote: > >If you are using a T-SQL step of an SQL Agent Job to update fields from one >table to another, check your field names carefully. The problem I ran into >was that I was using a field called "DATE" from table 1 to update table 2. >Even though both fields were of type "datetime", the query still threw an >Arithmetic Overflow error. What made this so crazy was that the same query, >when executed through the data view, executed perfectly. Renaming to source >field to DATE1 cleared up the error. > >P.S. The field name "DATE" came off an import... that's not a name I'd >normally use in a table. > > > >To force a failure of a step in a Job, use the following code: > >Err.Throw > > > >Backing up for non-reinstallable data is a really good idea. > > > >Setting up an inexpensive RAID configuration on your server (using an extra >identical IDE HD plus an Adaptec or Promise FasTrak controller) is well >worth the investment. The extra $200-$300 (USD) will save you lots of >time/money when your HD goes bad. > > > >When purchasing a new HD in an emergency situation, stop and think about >other items you may need--drive mounting rails, new ribbon cables, etc. You >never know when the old ones aren't going to work with the new drive or >might have too much wear and tear. > > > >Take care when troubleshooting HD's. It is possible to make a bad situation >worse by accidentally ripping the Female adapter clean off the IDE ribbon >cable at 11pm when the only store open is WalMart... and no, WalMart does >not carry IDE Cables. > > > >When shopping for IDE cables, make sure you look around before simply buying >a cable. An ATA/133 IDE cable by itself can run as high as $30 (USD) a >piece. However, most RAID controllers come with them as well. And, as I've >found out, a $10 (USD) 5 1/4 -> 3 1/2 inch adapter kit sometimes comes with >one as well. > > >P.S. Anybody else been getting a lot of corrupted files when downloading >Software/SDK's from Microsoft lately? During my process of rebuilding I had >to re-download a couple of files more than a few times to get an uncorrupted >file. I thought it might've been my NIC driver, but files from other sites >did not have the same problems as those from Microsoft. > >-joshua > >-- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! -- Sincerely, Kid Stevens "Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man." -Francis Bacon From mailing.lists at creed.co.uk Sun Aug 11 15:48:23 2002 From: mailing.lists at creed.co.uk (Andy Warwick) Date: Sun Aug 11 15:48:23 2002 Subject: [thelist] Blank messages ? Message-ID: Apologies for the off topic post, but I've paid with a tip... Is anyone else getting blank messages from the list along with the normal traffic? The latest example was sent at 2002/08/11 09:28 pm, and had a blank subject line, no readable internet headers and the text: > Sincerely, > Kid Stevens > > "Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man." And that was it - the sum total of the message. Client: Entourage 10.1.0 on OS X 10.1.5 Andy W Having set up a site to dynamically create reports that the user could download, and having it work fine in testing, only to break when it got moved to a secure server, I found the problem was a combination of SSL, sessions, and the headers being sent; IE needs extra headers The final solution was the following: From webguru at vsnl.net Sun Aug 11 15:58:01 2002 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Sun Aug 11 15:58:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver 4: Layout Tables In-Reply-To: <008201c24144$5c27f7e0$c50987cb@haidersystem> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812022539.01fe2cb8@203.197.12.4> At 08:02 PM 11-08-02, Syed Zeeshan Haider wrote: >cell. Such cells are enlarged during typing in them and consequently >other cells are shrunk to smaller sizes. Can somebody tell me some trick >to solve this problem? Use fixed width cells? Or perhaps only for the columns where you don't want the text to expand beyond a point. Madhu From webguru at vsnl.net Sun Aug 11 15:59:52 2002 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Sun Aug 11 15:59:52 2002 Subject: [thelist] Java VM In-Reply-To: <1029096709.3d56c50542b90@webmail.msstate.edu> References: <3D562006.300@cyberfuddle.com> <1028832734.3d52bddec403f@webmail.msstate.edu> <3D562006.300@cyberfuddle.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812022411.01f1ce48@203.197.12.4> At 01:41 AM 12-08-02, Joel Konkle-Parker wrote: >Well, ok, that's understandable. But I don't have a Linux machine, and I don't >know Java. Don't you love "platform independent coding"? What, JVM differences matter? Perhaps there's a reason people haven't dumped C++ yet. ;) Madhu From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 11 16:08:01 2002 From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr) Date: Sun Aug 11 16:08:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Running msxml Message-ID: <000101c24114$c82710f0$4363989e@DHGQCD0J> Ahh, Evolt is back - it was a quiet week for my inbox without it! Ok, I'm schudk on running msxml on XP Pro I downloaded it and installed it, but no matter where I try and run it from all I get is a "msxml is not a recognised command...." error in my command prompt. Anyone got any ideas as to what might be wrong? Regards Francis From webdad at tampabay.rr.com Sun Aug 11 16:58:01 2002 From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert) Date: Sun Aug 11 16:58:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver 4: Layout Tables In-Reply-To: <008201c24144$5c27f7e0$c50987cb@haidersystem> Message-ID: Syed Zeeshan Haider wrote: Such cells are enlarged during typing in them and consequently other cells are shrunk to smaller sizes. Can somebody tell me some trick to solve this problem? Have you tried setting the height of the in the properties panel? or tried to controlling it with CSS? I don't usually have this problem when laying out table in Dreamweaver 4. Are you by any chance using MX? Bob From kstevens89 at comcast.net Sun Aug 11 17:03:00 2002 From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens) Date: Sun Aug 11 17:03:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver 4: Layout Tables In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812022539.01fe2cb8@203.197.12.4> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812022539.01fe2cb8@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: I set my cells with CSS. tbody.tricell {width: 460px } .fcell {width: 120px; } .scell {width: 140px; } .tcell {width: 220px; } At 2:26 AM +0530 8/12/02, Madhu Menon wrote: >At 08:02 PM 11-08-02, Syed Zeeshan Haider wrote: >>cell. Such cells are enlarged during typing in them and consequently >>other cells are shrunk to smaller sizes. Can somebody tell me some trick >>to solve this problem? > >Use fixed width cells? Or perhaps only for the columns where you don't want >the text to expand beyond a point. > >Madhu > >-- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! -- Sincerely, Kid Stevens "Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man." -Francis Bacon From Christopher at ideadesigners.com Sun Aug 11 17:29:00 2002 From: Christopher at ideadesigners.com (Christopher Joseph) Date: Sun Aug 11 17:29:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] OpenSP / Emacs / PSGML In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812003422.01fdc250@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: Hi List, I have recently - painstakingly - worked through an IBM tutorial on setting up PSGML to replace SGML major mode in Emacs and to apply OpenSP as the validator. Everything seems to have gone hunkydory BUT whn I validate a basic HTML file using OpenSP's onsgml validator I receive a whole load of messages (+250) regarding the charset. The first few are basically:- Command: Bash> onsgmls -s /usr/local/share/OpenSP/xml.dcl test.html messages: onsgmls:/usr/local/share/OpenSP/xml.dcl:18:29:W: characters in the document character set with numbers exceeding 255 not supported ....the next billion messges are: onsgmls:/usr/local/share/OpenSP/xml.dcl:44:54:E: there is no uniques character in the document character set corresponding to character number 308 in the syntax reference character set ....No the reason that I have bothered you folks with the problem is because I think the problem is my lack of familiarity with DTDs and soc files etc. (the reason I installed the new mode into emacs in the first place). Test.html looks like this: My First EMACS XHTML document ...SO! Any thoughts on the problem? Have I done something stupid? Thanks in advance. Chris From sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com Sun Aug 11 17:41:01 2002 From: sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com (Sharon F. Malone) Date: Sun Aug 11 17:41:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Javascript on the fly ... not flying Message-ID: <007501c24187$a8360c60$7398b2d1@oemcomputer> Boy, I'm in deep yogurt and really need some JS help. I took over a site to make various revisions and have a deadline of 8/20 to finish them all. Have a ~major~ problem with one page only, a page that calls images on the fly (in the lefthand column underneath the navigation). I can't get the images to display. Tried going with a simple openWindow function listing the width, height, etc. in the then an in the body, but that doesn't resize the images. The original page is at: http://www.sur-sys.com and select Services from the menu. My revised page is at: http://www.sur-sys.com/newhtml/services_new.html The site pages had no DTD so I selected 4.01 Trans. Also I added an imported stylesheet as well as making a remote.js file. So I only left the JS that refers to this function in the tag on the Services page. You'll notice in the JS on the Services page I removed the reference in the content to any style sheet (thinking the script got confused wondering which sheet to refer to) ... but that didn't do any good. ???????? Best, Sharon --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sharon F. Malone "web design and Internet writing services" http://www.24caratdesign.com sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com From kstevens89 at comcast.net Sun Aug 11 18:01:01 2002 From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens) Date: Sun Aug 11 18:01:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Javascript on the fly ... not flying In-Reply-To: <007501c24187$a8360c60$7398b2d1@oemcomputer> References: <007501c24187$a8360c60$7398b2d1@oemcomputer> Message-ID: I found that many image rotating javascripts worked in IE or NS only. That could be the problem. Another thing is some javascript code breaks if it line wraps. At 3:37 PM -0700 8/11/02, Sharon F. Malone wrote: >Have a ~major~ problem with one page only, a page that calls images >on the fly (in the lefthand column underneath the navigation). I >can't get the images to display. -- Sincerely, Kid Stevens "Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man." -Francis Bacon From luomat at peak.org Sun Aug 11 18:11:01 2002 From: luomat at peak.org (Tim Luoma) Date: Sun Aug 11 18:11:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: CSS: colour attributes In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020810024508.00a8e688@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: You can find a full list of the colors supported by W3C in a sidebar implementation for Opera and Mozilla/Netscape at http://www.tntluoma.com/sidebars/triplecolors/ The page is setup to show each column implementing the color name, hex and RGB... Taken directly from the W3C spec/recommendation, and includes the color 'names' at the top. TjL From kstevens89 at comcast.net Sun Aug 11 18:13:19 2002 From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens) Date: Sun Aug 11 18:13:19 2002 Subject: [thelist] Blank messages ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A friend of mine this day said the same thing. Apparently my ISP has played with the mail server again. She, as has this list and HWG list received email that is intact since 1:30. At 9:45 PM +0100 8/11/02, Andy Warwick wrote: >Apologies for the off topic post, but I've paid with a tip... > >Is anyone else getting blank messages from the list along with the normal >traffic? > >The latest example was sent at 2002/08/11 09:28 pm, and had a blank subject >line, no readable internet headers and the text: > >> Sincerely, >> Kid Stevens >> >> "Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an >>exact man." -- Sincerely, Kid Stevens "Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man." -Francis Bacon From stem at stemofficial.co.uk Sun Aug 11 18:17:01 2002 From: stem at stemofficial.co.uk (Dave Stevens) Date: Sun Aug 11 18:17:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Information Graphics Message-ID: <02ab01c2418d$368d2890$d142e150@brodie> Hi, Does anyone know where I can get some Infographics (like those in the video for Royskopp's "Remind Me" or such like) which I could use in a site? Preferably copyright free, but I would be willing to sort that stuff out with whoever owns them. Cheers, Dave Stevens [e : ds at stemofficial.co.uk] [w: http://www.stemofficial.co.uk] From lwkraemer at directvinternet.com Sun Aug 11 18:24:01 2002 From: lwkraemer at directvinternet.com (lon.kraemer) Date: Sun Aug 11 18:24:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Line Break in Titles References: <008301c24144$5e059180$c50987cb@haidersystem> Message-ID: <002f01c2418d$f4d3a360$0201a8c0@yoda> > Is it possible to add line breaks in the titles of links and images? Here's two ways I know of: #1 Using ASP. <% title="This title " & vbCrLf & "should break" %> link1 #2 A hard return in your actual markup. link2 -- Lon Kraemer ----------------------------------------- From john at evolt.org.uk Sun Aug 11 18:36:01 2002 From: john at evolt.org.uk (John Handelaar) Date: Sun Aug 11 18:36:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Blank messages ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: % -----Original Message----- % From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org % [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Kid Stevens % Sent: 12 August 2002 00:06 % To: thelist at lists.evolt.org % Subject: Re: [thelist] Blank messages ? % % A friend of mine this day said the same thing. Apparently my ISP has % played with the mail server again. It's possible that some clients or local mail servers are objecting to your astoundingly profligate use of quoted text :-) Oh, and fair enough - we've been out of action for a week, but meta-conversations like this really require tips... Rackshack.com is currently offering dedicated servers for $99/month, with 400GB of bandwidth per month thrown in. ------------------------------------------ John Handelaar T +44 20 8933 1494 M +44 7930 681789 F +44 870 169 7657 E john at userfrenzy.com ------------------------------------------ From rgoviatt at nbnet.nb.ca Sun Aug 11 19:27:01 2002 From: rgoviatt at nbnet.nb.ca (Rob Oviatt) Date: Sun Aug 11 19:27:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] relative paths in CSS Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020811211354.00a12ec0@pop.nbnet.nb.ca> How do you express relative paths in CSS? I'm using the body style (below) to load a background image for a web site I've built. It works fine in IE, but Mozilla 1.0 doesn't find the file. If I remove the "images/" and drop a copy of the gif in the same directory, Mozilla can find it. I've been surfing the net, but every example of "background-image" I've found, doesn't use a sub directory as the source. Can anyone shed some light on this? body { font-weight : normal; font-family : "Times New Roman", Times, serif; font-size : 12px; background-image: url(images/bg.gif); background-position : center; color: #2A4F6D; background-color : #fab400; } Thank Rob Oviatt Typesetter / Web Developer Appleby Color Lab Fredericton, NB 506-459-2320 applebyweb at nb.aibn.com http://www.applebycolorlab.com/ From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Aug 11 19:39:00 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Aug 11 19:39:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] relative paths in CSS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020811211354.00a12ec0@pop.nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <3D56CABB.27713.B8600669@localhost> > From: Rob Oviatt > > How do you express relative paths in CSS? I'm using the body style > (below) to load a background image for a web site I've built. It > works fine in IE, but Mozilla 1.0 doesn't find the file. If I remove > the "images/" and drop a copy of the gif in the same directory, > Mozilla can find it. > > I've been surfing the net, but every example of "background-image" > I've found, doesn't use a sub directory as the source. Can anyone > shed some light on this? here's a line of code from my CSS: background-image : url(/files/as_images/casebg_cms.gif) ; you'll note the leading slash on the path... i go for root-relative links because then i never have to worry about paths... that way the brain cloud (what's a brain cloud?) i get while reminding myself how paths are relative to the calling document is unnecessary... i'd suggest you try that... -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20 ISBN: 1904151035 From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Sun Aug 11 19:41:01 2002 From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan) Date: Sun Aug 11 19:41:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] relative paths in CSS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020811211354.00a12ec0@pop.nbnet.nb.ca> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020811211354.00a12ec0@pop.nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <200208111737.51326.burhankhalid@members.evolt.org> On Sunday 11 August 2002 05:22 pm, Rob Oviatt wrote: > How do you express relative paths in CSS? I'm using the body style (below) > to load a background image for a web site I've built. It works fine in IE, > but Mozilla 1.0 doesn't find the file. If I remove the "images/" and drop > a copy of the gif in the same directory, Mozilla can find it. > > I've been surfing the net, but every example of "background-image" I've > found, doesn't use a sub directory as the source. Can anyone shed some > light on this? > > body { > font-weight : normal; > font-family : "Times New Roman", Times, serif; > font-size : 12px; > background-image: url(images/bg.gif); > background-position : center; > color: #2A4F6D; > background-color : #fab400; > } Did you try using quotes? Sounds silly, but it could fix the problem. background-image: url("/images/bg.gif"); Also, when the image doesn't display...right click on it and choose properties. Then you can see where it is looking for it. It helps me when my paths are messed up. hth, Burhan From kstevens89 at comcast.net Sun Aug 11 19:47:00 2002 From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens) Date: Sun Aug 11 19:47:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] relative paths in CSS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020811211354.00a12ec0@pop.nbnet.nb.ca> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020811211354.00a12ec0@pop.nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: ../images.bg.gif takes you up a directory so you start there if your directory is mysite/images/bg.gif. I keep my CSS file in the root and then going down the tree is easy. Versus coming up then down. So my relative path is always down grafs/autos/ford/trucks/rangermine/invranger.jpg from the CSS file. ../../images/bg.gif goes up two then down to the gif. At 9:22 PM -0300 8/11/02, Rob Oviatt wrote: >How do you express relative paths in CSS? I'm using the body style (below) >to load a background image for a web site I've built. It works fine in IE, >but Mozilla 1.0 doesn't find the file. If I remove the "images/" and drop >a copy of the gif in the same directory, Mozilla can find it. >body { > font-weight : normal; > font-family : "Times New Roman", Times, serif; > font-size : 12px; > background-image: url(images/bg.gif); > background-position : center; > color: #2A4F6D; > background-color : #fab400; -- Sincerely, Kid Stevens "Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man." -Francis Bacon From mail at redhotsweeps.com Sun Aug 11 19:48:13 2002 From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty) Date: Sun Aug 11 19:48:13 2002 Subject: [thelist] Picking a message board...... Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020811194222.0207d498@redhotsweeps.com> Hello all. Missed everyone's post this week with the server move. I am looking at starting a new site and funds are limited. I want to add a really nice message board to the site. Can anyone recommend a good free message board that uses php and mysql? I currently use VBulletin but another license is out of the budget. Any other ideas? Thanks Chris From john at evolt.org.uk Sun Aug 11 20:06:01 2002 From: john at evolt.org.uk (John Handelaar) Date: Sun Aug 11 20:06:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Picking a message board...... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020811194222.0207d498@redhotsweeps.com> Message-ID: % -----Original Message----- % From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org % [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of CDitty % Sent: 12 August 2002 01:45 % To: thelist at lists.evolt.org % Subject: [thelist] Picking a message board...... % % I am looking at starting a new site and funds are limited. I % want to add a % really nice message board to the site. Can anyone recommend a good free % message board that uses php and mysql? I currently use VBulletin but % another license is out of the budget. Any other ideas? 1. PHPbb 2. Phorum 3. W-Agora Pick the one you like the best. They're all Free. ------------------------------------------ John Handelaar T +44 20 8933 1494 M +44 7930 681789 F +44 870 169 7657 E john at userfrenzy.com ------------------------------------------ From stem at stemofficial.co.uk Sun Aug 11 20:20:00 2002 From: stem at stemofficial.co.uk (Dave Stevens) Date: Sun Aug 11 20:20:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Picking a message board...... References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020811194222.0207d498@redhotsweeps.com> Message-ID: <035d01c2419e$64c2a030$d142e150@brodie> Hey, I *highly* recommend phpbb [http://www.phpbb.com] So easy to customize, and plenty of features. Best of all, free :) Uses PHP and Mysql. Cheers, Dave Stevens ----- Original Message ----- From: "CDitty" To: Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 1:44 AM Subject: [thelist] Picking a message board...... > Hello all. Missed everyone's post this week with the server move. > > I am looking at starting a new site and funds are limited. I want to add a > really nice message board to the site. Can anyone recommend a good free > message board that uses php and mysql? I currently use VBulletin but > another license is out of the budget. Any other ideas? > > Thanks > > Chris > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 11 20:31:01 2002 From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele) Date: Sun Aug 11 20:31:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Line Break in Titles In-Reply-To: <002f01c2418d$f4d3a360$0201a8c0@yoda> Message-ID: <20020812013047.53886.qmail@web13508.mail.yahoo.com> Alternative (js enabled only) link2 --- "lon.kraemer" wrote: > > Is it possible to add line breaks in the titles of links and images? > > Here's two ways I know of: > #1 Using ASP. > <% title="This title " & vbCrLf & "should break" %> > link1 > > #2 A hard return in your actual markup. > link2 > > -- > Lon Kraemer > ----------------------------------------- > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From lwkraemer at directvinternet.com Sun Aug 11 20:33:01 2002 From: lwkraemer at directvinternet.com (lon.kraemer) Date: Sun Aug 11 20:33:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Javascript on the fly ... not flying References: <007501c24187$a8360c60$7398b2d1@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <002701c2419f$dc28ebb0$0201a8c0@yoda> > Boy, I'm in deep yogurt and really need some JS help. I took over a site to make various revisions and have a deadline of 8/20 to finish them all. Have a ~major~ problem with one page only, a page that calls images on the fly (in the lefthand column underneath the navigation). I can't get the images to display. Tried going with a simple openWindow function listing the width, height, etc. in the then an in the body, but that doesn't resize the images. > > The original page is at: http://www.sur-sys.com > and select Services from the menu. > > My revised page is at: http://www.sur-sys.com/newhtml/services_new.html > > The site pages had no DTD so I selected 4.01 Trans. Also I added an imported stylesheet as well as making a remote.js file. So I only left the JS that refers to this function in the tag on the Services page. You'll notice in the JS on the Services page I removed the reference in the content to any style sheet (thinking the script got confused wondering which sheet to refer to) ... but that didn't do any good. > > ???????? The image is not relatively in the same place. You're working from a different directory (and 1 level deeper) than the original. You are also losing the background color by removing the stylesheet reference (I get my "remind-me" ugly color). -- Lon Kraemer ----------------------------------------- From david at us-lot.org Sun Aug 11 20:55:01 2002 From: david at us-lot.org (David Dorward) Date: Sun Aug 11 20:55:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: colour attributes In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020810024508.00a8e688@mail.interlog.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020810024508.00a8e688@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: <20020811101519.31069088.david@us-lot.org> On Sat, 10 Aug 2002 03:20:55 -0400 Frank wrote: > > As far as I understand, colour can be specified in a number of ways in > HTML and CSS > > "white" a limited number of named colours. > > "#FFFFFF" hexadecimal, three groups of two. The above are acceptable in HTML, the rest are CSS only. > rgb(255,255,255) three groups representing, red, green blue. > > I've been seeing this "#FFF" all over the place for a long time. At > first, I thought that it was simply sloppy code. Then I found Eric > Meyer using it. I can't seem to find a reference that details the > composition of the statement, even on the w3c. I'm feeling kind'a > stumped, kind'a dumb. Its shorthand, with #abc == #aabbcc Described in section 4.3.6 of the CSS 2 specification. http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/syndata.html#value-def-color -- David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/ HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV. From brad at beldamar.com Sun Aug 11 20:56:42 2002 From: brad at beldamar.com (Brad Miller) Date: Sun Aug 11 20:56:42 2002 Subject: [thelist] Running msxml In-Reply-To: <000101c24114$c82710f0$4363989e@DHGQCD0J> Message-ID: <000a01c24186$b8167da0$b1276844@beldamar> How are you running msxml? Are you trying to do an XSL conversion from the command prompt? If so you need the MSXML command line program. You can download it from Microsoft's web site. Otherwise you will need to providse a little more information. Brad Miller www.beldamar.com www.x-etc.com brad at beldamar.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A virus in a document is OK (provided the DTD allows it) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From R.Livsey at cache-22.co.uk Sun Aug 11 21:25:00 2002 From: R.Livsey at cache-22.co.uk (R.Livsey) Date: Sun Aug 11 21:25:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: colour attributes In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020810024508.00a8e688@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: <001901c24138$8468cd30$576efea9@core> > I've been seeing this "#FFF" all over the place for a long > time. At first, I thought that it was simply sloppy code. > Then I found Eric Meyer using it. I can't seem to find a > reference that details the composition of the statement, even > on the w3c. I'm feeling kind'a stumped, kind'a dumb. > > Can someone point me in the right direction? > > Thanks. > > > Frank Marion > framar at interlog.com http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS1#color-units "The format of an RGB value in hexadecimal notation is a '#' immediately followed by either three or six hexadecimal characters. The three-digit RGB notation (#rgb) is converted into six-digit form (#rrggbb) by replicating digits, not by adding zeros. For example, #fb0 expands to #ffbb00. This makes sure that white (#ffffff) can be specified with the short notation (#fff) and removes any dependencies on the color depth of the display." Basically its shorthand notation, so #F06 is the same as writing #FF0066. HTH. Cheers. R.Livsey Incutio Web Developer [ PHP | Perl | mySQL | Java ] w : cache-22.co.uk e : R.Livsey at cache-22.co.uk / Richard at incutio.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 - Release Date: 24/07/2002 From Gary at star-chaser.com Sun Aug 11 21:33:01 2002 From: Gary at star-chaser.com (Gary Bland) Date: Sun Aug 11 21:33:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Picking a message board...... References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020811194222.0207d498@redhotsweeps.com> Message-ID: <3D571E53.6000604@star-chaser.com> CDitty wrote: > Hello all. Missed everyone's post this week with the server move. > > I am looking at starting a new site and funds are limited. I want to add a > really nice message board to the site. Can anyone recommend a good free > message board that uses php and mysql? I currently use VBulletin but > another license is out of the budget. Any other ideas? > > Thanks > > Chris > electrifiedForum http://www.electrifiedpenguin.com/projects/eforum/ Phourms http://phorum.org/ hth Gary -- Gary Bland StarChaser Web Architecture http://star-chaser.com Building Tomorrow's World Today From tim at tfountain.co.uk Sun Aug 11 23:22:01 2002 From: tim at tfountain.co.uk (Tim Fountain) Date: Sun Aug 11 23:22:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] wrapping long content on web pages In-Reply-To: <200208021627.g72GRM5X001096@leo.evolt.org> References: <200208021627.g72GRM5X001096@leo.evolt.org> Message-ID: <1365382509.20020810142355@tfountain.co.uk> On Friday, August 2, 2002, aardvark wrote: [long URLs etc. breaking designs] > there are many pages where a member pasted a url into the comment > box, and it's one of these urls, causing the whole page to splay > across the screen like a marshmallow in a microwave... > i'm trying to find a valid, semantically correct, and pleasantly > simple way to cause words/urls to wrap in a browser... It's a problem, I and I also have yet to find a decent solution. There's an IE-specific way of doing it using CSS (word-wrap: break-word; I think it is), but that only works in MSIE 5.5+ (I think, it might be IE 6.0+ only) so you can't rely on it. I wrote a quick PHP function which parses long URLs into clickable links replacing the text with 'Link', and breaks all other long strings using hiphens. I'll post the code here if anyone thinks it might be of use. -- Tim Fountain (tim at tfountain.co.uk) http://www.tfountain.co.uk/ From bvaradi at nlcnet.org Sun Aug 11 23:25:00 2002 From: bvaradi at nlcnet.org (Benjamin C. Varadi) Date: Sun Aug 11 23:25:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] dynamic dns server software? Message-ID: <3D52E585.36FA2822@nlcnet.org> Had no luck with this on webdesign-l. Y'all have any thoughts? -BEN -------- Original Message -------- >> Anyone know what software exists to provide dynamic dns hosting (y'know, >> like ods.org or dyndns.org)? Web searches just show me a ton of >> providers. I guess I didn't phrase my question well enough. I'm looking for software to *provide* dynamic service. My understanding of how this works is that a client program sends a sort of "authenticated ping" periodically to the server, which checks the client IP address against Apache's DNS records & makes changes if necessary. I feel like this is probably more complex than it seems, though, and if turnkey or (ideally) open-source scripts existed to set up a server in this manner, I'd love to know about it. From amy at rocky-hills.com Sun Aug 11 23:37:00 2002 From: amy at rocky-hills.com (Amy Johnson) Date: Sun Aug 11 23:37:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Trying to center using CSS In-Reply-To: <200208120044.g7C0i9SG001947@leo.evolt.org> Message-ID: I am creating my first tableless site using CSS. In general, I think it is going ok. I have embedded DIVS set up and am able to center things as I need to. However, I can't center the primary DIV. I would like it to center within different size screens, 17", 19", 21", etc. Below is some of my CSS code. DIV.main is meant to be the entire screen. DIV.ht contains all of my web page. So I want for DIV.ht, which is a set width, to always be centered in DIV.main. I don't think percentages will work for the left value of DIV.ht since it is a fixed width. But left:auto doesn't work either. This seems like it should be obvious. What am I missing? Thanks! Amy DIV.main {background-color: black; position: absolute; height: 700; width: 100%; top: 0px; bottom: 0px; left: 0px; right: 0px; text-align: center; } DIV.ht {position: absolute; height: 550px; width: 600px; top: 70px; left: auto; }