Help first, be a stuck-up *** later (Was RE: [thelist] [Music clips] Continuous music clip playing across site)

Russ russ at unrealisticexpectations.com
Tue Nov 5 11:24:01 CST 2002


I have no objects with you agreeing, however, how can you expect to get
an answer when you're not even willing to share with someone what you're
trying to do?  If you don't have experience, I can understand asking to
the list, but, yet again, I'll chime in with doing a little bit of
homework and asking people to take responsibility upon themselves to
gain some knowledge.  If the question was, "I've been asked to do this:
xxx, and I've found X possibilities, but we're using LINUX and I'm not
sure if they'll work" it would be much easier to answer for a select
group of persons.  Right now, people are attempting to answer, but their
answers might not even be valid because not enough information has been
provided.

Any degree of standard requirements gathering teaches this; you have to
have an understand of what's trying to be accomplished in order to build
a project.

The question of "Is it possible to do this..." almost always can be
responded to with, "Did you try it?" The simple answer is "anything is
possible, but... <insert a lot of questions here>".

If the answer to that is YES, then great, what did you try, tell me and
I'll tell you what I know on the subject, but I'm not going to do your
work for you.  I will HAPPILY guide, but I don't think it's fair to hand
someone the answers all the time.

Any time I've asked questions of lists, including lists I moderate, I
always show what I've tried, what my errors have been, what I know about
what I'm trying to accomplish in order to help any responders--and to
direct my question more appropriately to other persons who may have
experience in a specific area/technology.

I consider it to be my responsibility to be as direct as possible when
composing a question in order to help people help me and I consider that
to be etiquette for most lists.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the usage of this particular list.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Scannell
> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 11:09 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: Help first, be a stuck-up *** later (Was RE:
> [thelist] [Music clips] Continuous music clip playing across site)
>
>
> I have to agree with Marc on this one.
>
> Russ, I have been a programmer for over 20 years and have
> ALWAYS tried to pass my knowledge down to those who ask for
> it.  Even if I answer more than is asked.  I have only been a
> part of this list for a week or so and have already attempted
> to do this on a few occasions.  I have also noticed that
> practically everyone else does it, as well.
>
> If a poster's question isn't very deep or detailed - well
> that's because he doesn't know much about the subject or else
> he wouldn't be asking!!  He's looking for guidance.  It's our
> job to do that.  If that means doing some research - then do
> it!  Then when you reply - everyone is the wiser!  We aren't
> worried about job security here are we?  I think we are from
> all over the world here so helping someone out isn't going to
> jeopardize our job position anywhere!
>
> let's give guidance wherever we can.
>
> Answering "YES" isn't guidance!
>
> Jerry
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Russ" <russ at unrealisticexpectations.com>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 11:48 AM
> Subject: RE: Help first, be a stuck-up *** later (Was RE:
> [thelist] [Music clips] Continuous music clip playing across site)
>
>
> > Hey, thanks for the name calling.
> >
> > It's equally as helpful, however, if you notice, the
> person's question
> > was a yes/no question.
> >
> > I really don't think I should be responsible for doing that
> person's
> > research and offer the MANY types of ways that are possible
> to handle
> > that task if the person's not willing to do any research
> and craft a
> > question that allows me to understand what types of technologies
> > they're interested in.
> >
> > Had the person asked if it were possible to use a tiny Flash movie
> > that could load a random external file, you can bet I would
> be happy
> > to provide assistance, however, that's not the case.
> >
> > I offered as much help for the poster as they asked for, and it's
> > truly that black-and-white.  The signal-to-noise ratio on
> lists such
> > as this increases every time someone asks a question without taking
> > any responsibility on themselves, and it gets increased
> even greater
> > when people go back and forth.  This is the last you'll
> hear from me
> > right here; you have a problem with this, you take it to my
> personal
> > email account.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> > > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Marc Seyon
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 10:24 AM
> > > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> > > Subject: Help first, be a stuck-up *** later (Was RE: [thelist]
> > > [Music clips] Continuous music clip playing across site)
> > >
> > >
> > > Wow Russ. Can you be any more anal? I hope for your sake your
> > > requests for help on thelist are met with more courtesy
> and openness
> > > than you have thus far demonstrated.
> > >
> > > <tip type="mailing list etiquette">
> > > If you must reply to requests for assistance on mailing lists, at
> > > least try to help the poster.
> > >
> > > One word responses or posts like "Why don't you search on google
> > > instead of asking us" don't do anything for your reputation, and
> > > might reduce your own chances or getting help when your
> turn comes
> > > around.
> > >
> > > Developer lists like evolt are not for showing off how much you
> > > know. </tip>
> > >
> > > Message from Russ (11/5/2002 09:50 AM)
> > > >yes
> > >
> > > --
> > > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
> > --
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>

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