[thelist] A Beginner Freelance Question

Webmaster webmaster at tribal-treble.com
Tue Jul 20 15:10:38 CDT 2004

At 11:13 PM 7/19/2004, you wrote:
>Message from Webmaster (7/19/2004 10:49 PM)
>>Hello all,
>>I have seen people torn limb from limb for asking questions about how 
>>much to charge for freelance jobs, etcetera here before
>Have you? I don't recall any such incidents. That sort of comment is an 
>easy to way generate animosity on a list. You should ask yourself, what 
>value does it add to your question?

Well, sorry if i came across in the wrong way, i was joking about being 
'torn limb from limb'. Wot i meant was a while ago i read a series of 
threads about the same topic where most people gave a very limited reply in 
the sense of being helpful -- if memory serves me correctly, a lot of the 
threads were along the lines of "if you need to ask then you should stop 
trying to do it" or "unless you are planning on making thousands stop now" 
etc, mostly adding equations of yearly projected salaries, etc as opposed 
to simple 'per project' usual fees.
Once again, if you have taken offense, i am sorry -- i suppose my humour 
doesnt come across well in text.

>>, but I just wanted to ask one thing -- I am being asked for an estimate 
>>in regards to redesigning a website for a possible customer (pending if 
>>they like my price quote).
>Competing on price is hard, honestly. I hate doing it so I don't. I give 
>my quote and if the client turns it down because the price is too high I 
>move along without even batting an eyelid. I know the value of my time and 
>the quality of my work.

Yes, i understand that, and i agree, but wot i am asking is if somebody may 
be able to at least offer a ballpark _starters_ amount? as i said, keeping 
in mind that this will possibly be one of my first bigger customers, last 
thing i want to do is overcharge and lose them.

>>How much do you think seems like a good price for a fresh XHTML/CSS 
>>redesign of a site (not redoing any content text), its 10 pages in total, 
>>flat file site? Keeping in mind I am getting this job as my first 
>>"Official" freelance job AND it is a legal firm
>I'm not sure it's a good precedent to start basing prices on how much 
>money you *think* your potential client has. I'm not sure if you meant 
>legal - law, or legal - duly incorporated, but I'd be especially cautious 
>about that with lawyers who understand scary concepts like discriminatory 
>pricing and what not. And who have their own client base to whom they can 
>spread word if it gets around that you're jacking prices up on them.

Sorry once again to seem unclear -- i did not mean that i would exploit the 
possible expendable moneys they may have to offer me, wot i meant was 
compared to previous jobs where they were for mates and all where i 
purposely gave them hefty discounts, this time i have the room to start 
charging more in the area where i want as a freelance designer.

>>So, yes, once again -- with these details in mind, would anybody be so 
>>kind as to at least project rough prices for both the redesign and then 
>>the monthly updates? Last time I looked into prices was back in the days 
>>when HTML 4 sites would cost around $100/hr or about $100/page.
>Ken's comments are valid. I don't think you can get that much for straight 
>HTML any more, especially considering it's updating, not creating from 
>scratch. Without knowing anything at all about the market you're in, etc, 
>I'd say you'd be lucky with $500. (Assuming you're talking US dollars 
>here, incidentally).

Thank you very much for your opinion. Yes, i know that the HTML was an 
outdated quote, hence my reason for posting this thread.

>>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>I'm going to equate "help" with "advice".
>Lose the hot shot attitude. Unless you're in your 50's there're people on 
>here who've been working in various computer science/IT industries since 
>before you were walking. They probably won't appreciate being addressed as 
>an unmannerly rabble.

Excuse me but please do feel free to point out anything i said that is 
showing any sort of attitude wotsoever. I asked a simple question, hoping 
for some simple replies. I think youre been quite out of line just now 
saying that -- so far the only real proof of anything ive said being 
misunderstood is my joking about being 'ripped limb from limb'.
I didnt realise i was on stand at a trial and every piece of trivial 
wording (ie. writing 'help' rather than 'advice') would receive such a 
critical backlash.

>Understand that certain US laws may make discussion of pricing among a 
>group of professionals an offense. Price fixing, supposedly. Whether you 
>buy the logic behind it is up to you, but there are case law examples you 
>can find online.

Yeah, i do remember hearing this somewhere before but have since seen a few 
places that openly show their hourly rates... odd.

>Look for some tools that will help you work out the business side of your 
>business. I can recommend "The Geek's Guide to Internet Business Success" 
>by Bob Schmidt as a good, quick, light read.

Thank you very much for the recommendation, i will look for it right away.

>Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com

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