Okay, this type of argument needs to die a swift death. I don't know about FrontPage, and am pretty much inclined to write it off solely on the basis of the sites I've seen made with it, but Dreamweaver, in the right hands, is nothing more than an advanced text editor with built in FTP client. And in that capacity it can be, and IS for me, VERY beneficial to my coding. It makes repetitive tasks quicker and is a useful organizational tool. You guys seem eager to blame this (overseas cheap labor) or that (WYSIWYG editors) when the real blame falls, as it does in every situation, on the people. Either that or the solution lies there, not in Web standards or some new product that is supposedly more open and better than its predecessors. It's US, people. And that's not the abbreviation for the United States, it's an emphasized representation of "us". :) Like I've been saying, I honestly feel that if we want to avoid these doomed futures, we have to take it upon ourselves to change things for the better in whatever small increments we can. Remember that individuals and smaller groups always hold the ultimate trump card: the greater powers that be rely on us for their livelihood, and if we decide to change the game, they have no choice but to go along. -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of YoYoEtc Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 4:59 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] RE: Does web design have a future in'highwage'countries? (wasQuestion]) I wonder, too, if WYSIWYG programs such as DreamWeaver are not working against us, too. People often think all they need is FrontPage or Dreamweaver and they will be able to design a site. Designers might be working against themselves by using such tools. At 05:53 PM 7/23/2004, Chris George wrote: > > Why -- if you are a professional web designer/developer/coder/whatever > > -- do you see them as your competition? Can you not > > differentiate your offerings from rent-a-coder.com? > >Yes, I can. The problem is my telepathic abilities can't plant my worth >in all potential client's heads. > >Why oh why do you think that it matters what _we_feel_ our worth is? > >They _are_ our competition, whether we like it or not. The only way we >can scramble above it is to become the (ok, here I go using the analogy >for clarity's sake) General Contractor, Foreman, Yard Boss, etc. > >The problem is: what for those who just want to _build_ things? >-- >* * Please support the community that supports you. * * >http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > >For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester >and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org >Workers of the Web, evolt ! ----------------- Tina (Using Firefox as default browser - Finally dumped IE6) -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !