Hi All ok well I wanted to renew the discussion of marketing ideas. Ive been persuaded by the merits of "passive marketing" so no worries there. I met some women at a bar one of whom was a marketing expert and soon put me to rights over what i was doing. Apparently the key first step is to get the client marketed so that his/her customers are seeing what benefits them rather than talking lots about the client. the client has to be somewhat selfless it seems. She mentioned that you have to know your market inside out, amongst other things. I got quite a lecture and she stopped when she realised this. If you have a range of products you focus on a few rather than blasting away with your entire range. Another tip was to find my own customers where i understood their product, again excellent advice. So as i play piano at roughly grade 7 (untested tho') talking to professional musicians might be a good idea. Strangely enough one client on the books is a musician. Did a bit of work for an engineer - have done some degree level chemistry so wasnt too scared esp as went out with a chem engineer - again relationship went well. so its unlikely i would do well pitching for a beauty salon, or a horse riding school etc. Anyway, Im thinking of rewriting my front page to reflect the above ideas plus something like: "we concentrate on core values(?) such as: good organisation, personal service and use of leading technology. " hmm have I left anything out? service, tech, organisation(best use of resources & time) & something which is important. maybe things like marketing? "identifying your market?" surely every website company has to identify markets / customers? any comments welcome. thanks Alex  for example, if a woman is using the site she'd not be really that into widgets and fanciness - just clear layout with bright colours and fun to use. a man would have different needs. ive no real idea what the needs of the women and men are but apparently they are different. if im talking to 30 year olds then appealing to their need for self realisation and playing to their ambitions will catch attention / retain attentions. suddenly realised that the advertising for the terrestial channels in the uk are made for different social groups, which is a bit scarey.