From volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 02:56:17 2005 From: volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?VOLKAN_=C3=96Z=C3=87EL=C4=B0K?=) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:56:17 +0200 Subject: [thelist] A question on optimization. Message-ID: Hi everyone! As one said apriori, "We developers love to over-optimze things". Let us consider the following page: [6 KB css] [57 KB image and 9 KB plain text] Before beginning I'd like clarify that: I know 72K of script and 57K of image is too much. That's not the point of my discussion. At the first load of the page, where browser is not putting the cached js's and images and requesting them directly from the server, here is what happens: 1. The text (html and css) loads. 2. The scripts start loading and the images do not load until all the scripts load. (which might take up to 8 seconds on an 56K connection). When analyzing the scripts, I found that most of them were being initialized and executed after page load. So I thought, it would be better to load the images first (i.e. initialize the look and feel). And then let the scripts load at the background. That is to say, reverse 1 and 2 above. So I generated a new skeleton for the page. [6 KB css] [57 KB image and 9 KB plain text]
The page "appears to" load twice faster, and while the user looks at the images, and reads through the text, the scripts load silenty at the background. Considering the limitation that I cannot crunchinate the scripts (because of maintanability collaboration issues) and I cannot optimze the images (because the client is a 'me wany eye-candy'), is my approach relevant? Opinions? From juha.suni at ilmiantajat.fi Mon Mar 14 03:44:06 2005 From: juha.suni at ilmiantajat.fi (Juha Suni) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:44:06 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Are you designing with CSS and web standards? References: <42311743.1050604@richpoints.com> <4231C1AB.5030507@zstudio.co.uk> <4231D694.9030107@designshift.com> Message-ID: <006c01c5287a$5d98bfe0$3300a8c0@tavutykki> Sarah Sweeney wrote: > The main difference, in my eyes, is that (with properly semantic HTML > in place) the CSS hacks you employ appear only once - in your CSS. > When you use tables for layout, the tables appear on every single > page in your site. Say you want to make a small change to the layout > of the entire site: if you've used semantic HTML and properly > separated your content and presentation, you only need to make a > change to your CSS, instead of having to change the markup of tables > throughout your entire site. This is where the major ROI of > table-less design and development comes into effect. This would hold true if html and css were the only techniques used. I work on designing and developing both web apps and pages for our clients full time, and have not needed to make a single page in 2 years where I could not use more advanced server-side techniques (PHP/ASP, templating engines, databases or the sort). No matter what way coding for the layout I use, I only need to edit the base template to change the structure. It still is true, that usually the pages end up a bit heavier (on filesize) than their CSS-counterparts (although even this is not true as often as some people seem to think). The effect it has on the average user, however, is often marginal, and there are far superior ways to lighten the load that could first be optimized (mainly the proper optimization of images and multimedia, if present, using gzip if appropriate and so on). I completely agree with Ian. Pure CSS is a noble cause, and CSS has already had a huge impact on the accessibility and visual appearance of the web during the last few years. It is, however, far from perfect, and the overly fanatic push to move straight to pure 100% CSS-layouts is not a realistic option these days. It might work on your own projects and pages, but usually not that well in a commercial environment where the client is paying the bills. It all, of course, depends on the project and customer at hand, and I do agree that all web designers should know their CSS well. Currently, however, the most cost-effective and nerve-soothing option is usually through a combination of old proven methods (read: tables) and as much hack-free CSS as possible. The ideas behind semantic web and pure CSS layouts are excellent. Their implementation, however, is still difficult, takes a lot of work, and simply put can not or will not be done in large scale until the standards and their wide-range support increases. The web is evolving and has evolved with amazing speed the last years. I have no reason to believe that it would not continue to do so, and it is good that the zealots are trying to make sure that the evolution goes to the right direction. It just is not going to happen overnight, and we need to stay realistic. CSS needs to get better, like many other things, before we have a this huge, always accessible, easy to develop and maintain network of information. -- Suni From ian at zstudio.co.uk Mon Mar 14 03:52:40 2005 From: ian at zstudio.co.uk (Ian Anderson) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:52:40 +0000 Subject: [thelist] DIVs with height not expanding vertically Message-ID: <42355EE8.4060800@zstudio.co.uk> Greetings all - lovely morning here in the UK Wondered if anyone could offer any guidance with this; DIVs not expanding vertically as the content grows if they have their height set through CSS. I am creating areas containing company details, enclosed in a DIV tag like this;

Company Name

Address 1

Address 2

County

Postcode

Phone

Email

Web address

I'm sure you know the sort of thing. Not all companies (records in DB) have all fields. Most have very few, and the information is displayed closed-up so there are no annoying gaps. All good so far. For design reasons, the DIV has a fixed height and a coloured background. Again, for design reasons and efficient use of space, the height is set to a sort of average amount. Most entries have space at the bottom of the div and it looks nice. Should there be *more* entries than the height allows, in IE6 for Windows the DIV is shown to expand vertically to accomodate them. BUT in Firefox and Safari, the box remains the specified size, and the content overflows down into the surrounding area.This also happens when the text size is increased in the browser in any fixed height DIV on the page. I was astonished to read (forget where) that the IE behaviour is wrong here, and that Firefox and Safari are behaving to spec. Can anyone verify that this behaviour is as intended? I imagine I should be using min-height to set the minimum height, but this is not respected in IE. Most of my clients use IE.Argh! (sorry to refer to previous winge, but tables don't pull this kind of baloney.) If anyone has any sensible suggestions, I'd love to hear them... Many thanks, people - Have a good one Ian Anderson PS - I suddenly realised I can presumably use a collection of Obscure CSS Hacks(tm) to deliver a height to IE and hide it from better browsers; this is not a prospect that fills me with joy... I have a bunch of fixed height DIVs and the style sheet is already bigger than I am. Think I'll give up web design and go back to painting sheds; the hours are better and the work is pretty much the same these days. Let's see, I need the IE Hole in Head fix, the Warsaw-Zackinsky Parent Child Selector Dodge; but of course if you use that on a Monday you mustn't forget the Helsinki Syndrome Workaround. Unless you consider IE5 for Mac too, in which case you need to use the Irving Welsh Sliding Windows trick before the Helsinki Workaround or it breaks in Opera for OS/2. Be nice to Opera? WHY CAN'T OPERA BE NICE TO ME FOR A CHANGE? Thinking of moving to CSS layouts? Save time and simply smack yourself repeatedly in the forehead with a club hammer... From juha.suni at ilmiantajat.fi Mon Mar 14 03:53:02 2005 From: juha.suni at ilmiantajat.fi (Juha Suni) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:53:02 +0200 Subject: [thelist] A question on optimization. References: Message-ID: <008201c5287b$9d13dbe0$3300a8c0@tavutykki> VOLKAN ?-Z??EL??K wrote: > The page "appears to" load twice faster, and while the user looks at > the images, and reads through the text, the scripts load silenty at > the background. > > Considering the limitation that I cannot crunchinate the scripts > (because of maintanability collaboration issues) and I cannot optimze > the images (because the client is a 'me wany eye-candy'), is my > approach relevant? If it truly works as you state above, then it sounds like a very good improvement. I have however been in the belief that it is very difficult to force a certain order for the browser to load it's stuff. There are most likely large differences between browsers, and I'm guessing there is pretty much randomness/weird logic involved too. Many things you can not control. You should test it out, and even if it gives the benefit to a small amount of clients, use it. There should really be no harm if you dont structurally break something. If you do test it out further, please let us know how it turns out. -- Suni From and-evolt at doxdesk.com Mon Mar 14 05:01:32 2005 From: and-evolt at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:01:32 +0900 Subject: [thelist] A question on optimization. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42356F0C.5010907@doxdesk.com> Volkan ?z?elik : > 2. The scripts start loading and the images do not load until all the > scripts load. (which might take up to 8 seconds on an 56K connection). The reason for this is that However I believe the only browser to take advantage of this possibility (AFAIK) is IE/Win. For this reason, and because it's often more convenient to have all page elements available at script run-time (rather than relying on window.onload), putting > > However I believe the only browser to take advantage of this > possibility (AFAIK) is IE/Win. As Andrew pointed out, using defer is a great way to force a script to be loaded only after the page load is complete. Compatibility across browsers is not guaranteed, however. You can implement your own sort of "defer" by programmatically (through DOM) adding a script block to the head from the body's onload handler. Use the tenets of a Tip provided by Keith Gaughan for reference: http://lists.evolt.org/harvest/detail.cgi?id=6257 Best of luck, <><><><><><><><><><> Joshua Olson Web Application Engineer WAE Tech Inc. http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ 706.210.0168 From casey at thecrookstons.com Mon Mar 14 09:52:17 2005 From: casey at thecrookstons.com (Casey Crookston) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:52:17 -0600 Subject: [thelist] A Question of Relative Paths Message-ID: <002d01c528ad$cd0669d0$6501a8c0@Papabear> I'm using a content editor tool to allow clients to update their own content. It works pretty slick, except when it comes to images. Here's the file and directory layout: in the "inetpub/wwwroot/fubar_client" root directory: > default.aspx > template.apsx > images (folder) > update (folder) >> update/text_editor.aspx >> update/conent (folder) >>>update/content/about.ascx >>>update/content/contact.ascx etc. The file "template.aspx" calls content out of update/content based on the page the user has requested. With the file "update/content/about.ascx" all of the image paths are simply because, despite the file being located in the "update/content" folder, it is being called from the root folder. The trouble is, when the same "update/content/about.ascx" file is being called from with the text editor at "update/text_editor.aspx" then the image path is no longer valid. I'm struggling with how best to solve this problem. I NEED the text_editor.aspx file to be in a separate folder so I can force a login. No matter where the "images" directory is located, the path will be different from the root directory and the update directory. I seem to remember at some point hearing that it is possible to assign a root directory for relative file paths within the head of a file. Is this true,, and if so, how? Or is there some other way to solve this silly problem? Thanks, Casey From volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 10:08:31 2005 From: volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?VOLKAN_=C3=96Z=C3=87EL=C4=B0K?=) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:08:31 +0200 Subject: [thelist] A Question of Relative Paths In-Reply-To: <002d01c528ad$cd0669d0$6501a8c0@Papabear> References: <002d01c528ad$cd0669d0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Message-ID: Use base tag. Our Products ...

Have you seen our Bird Cages? then the relative URI "../cages/birds.gif" would resolve to: http://www.aviary.com/cages/birds.gif For more info: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html HTH. volkan. On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:52:17 -0600, Casey Crookston wrote: > I'm using a content editor tool to allow clients to update their own > content. It works pretty slick, except when it comes to images. Here's the > file and directory layout: > > in the "inetpub/wwwroot/fubar_client" root directory: > > > default.aspx > > template.apsx > > images (folder) > > update (folder) > >> update/text_editor.aspx > >> update/conent (folder) > >>>update/content/about.ascx > >>>update/content/contact.ascx etc. > > The file "template.aspx" calls content out of update/content based on the > page the user has requested. With the file "update/content/about.ascx" all > of the image paths are simply because, despite the > file being located in the "update/content" folder, it is being called from > the root folder. > > The trouble is, when the same "update/content/about.ascx" file is being > called from with the text editor at "update/text_editor.aspx" then the image > path is no longer valid. I'm struggling with how best to solve this > problem. I NEED the text_editor.aspx file to be in a separate folder so I > can force a login. No matter where the "images" directory is located, the > path will be different from the root directory and the update directory. > > I seem to remember at some point hearing that it is possible to assign a > root directory for relative file paths within the head of a file. Is this > true,, and if so, how? Or is there some other way to solve this silly > problem? > > Thanks, > > Casey > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From casey at thecrookstons.com Mon Mar 14 10:11:22 2005 From: casey at thecrookstons.com (Casey Crookston) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:11:22 -0600 Subject: [thelist] A Question of Relative Paths References: <002d01c528ad$cd0669d0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Message-ID: <003501c528b0$773738b0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Using Google I'm finding some info on "~/" as a shortcut to you application path in asp.net. Anyone know about this? http://dotnetjunkies.com/WebLog/jpalermo/archive/2004/11/06/31227.aspx ----- Original Message ----- From: "Casey Crookston" To: Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:52 AM Subject: [thelist] A Question of Relative Paths > I'm using a content editor tool to allow clients to update their own > content. It works pretty slick, except when it comes to images. Here's the > file and directory layout: > > in the "inetpub/wwwroot/fubar_client" root directory: > > > default.aspx > > template.apsx > > images (folder) > > update (folder) > >> update/text_editor.aspx > >> update/conent (folder) > >>>update/content/about.ascx > >>>update/content/contact.ascx etc. > > The file "template.aspx" calls content out of update/content based on the > page the user has requested. With the file "update/content/about.ascx" all > of the image paths are simply because, despite the > file being located in the "update/content" folder, it is being called from > the root folder. > > The trouble is, when the same "update/content/about.ascx" file is being > called from with the text editor at "update/text_editor.aspx" then the image > path is no longer valid. I'm struggling with how best to solve this > problem. I NEED the text_editor.aspx file to be in a separate folder so I > can force a login. No matter where the "images" directory is located, the > path will be different from the root directory and the update directory. > > I seem to remember at some point hearing that it is possible to assign a > root directory for relative file paths within the head of a file. Is this > true,, and if so, how? Or is there some other way to solve this silly > problem? > > Thanks, > > Casey > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! From erik at erikheerlein.com Mon Mar 14 10:16:36 2005 From: erik at erikheerlein.com (Erik Heerlein) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:16:36 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Safari and cursive fonts In-Reply-To: <423463E3.4020207@dsl.pipex.com> References: <423463E3.4020207@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: > Is there any reason why Safari won't display cursive fonts for me? You may want to check out http://www.codestyle.org/css/font-family/sampler-Mac.shtml and see if some of those cursive fonts show up in your Safari. If they do, then I would say the problem lies in your code somewhere. Brush?Script?MT, Apple?Chancery and Comic Sans show up in my Safari. Do you have a page online where other mac users can look and see if the fonts you specified show up? [>] Erik Heerlein Web Developer 843-762-9382 erik at erikheerlein.com http://www.erikheerlein.com From casey at thecrookstons.com Mon Mar 14 10:26:07 2005 From: casey at thecrookstons.com (Casey Crookston) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:26:07 -0600 Subject: [thelist] A Question of Relative Paths References: <002d01c528ad$cd0669d0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Message-ID: <004e01c528b2$87630370$6501a8c0@Papabear> ----- Original Message ----- From: "VOLKAN ??Z??EL??K" > Use base tag. > > > Our Products > > > > ... > > >

Have you seen our Bird Cages? > > Okay, but how does this resolve on a local development server? From english_offline at yahoo.com Mon Mar 14 10:37:05 2005 From: english_offline at yahoo.com (Administrative HQ) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:37:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [thelist] Help Finding & Fixing VBScript Error... Arrrgghhh! In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050314163705.58998.qmail@web30506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi. Thanks for the reply. Sounds logical, but I can't seem to solve it. Removing the <% on 365 gets me: ********************** Microsoft VBScript compilation error '800a03f6' Expected 'End' /pay_paypal.asp, line 366 ********************** Removing the one on 366 returns the same and removing both yields: ********************** Microsoft VBScript compilation error '800a03f6' Expected 'End' /pay_paypal.asp, line 360 ********************** Removing the <% from 357 gets us: ********************** Microsoft VBScript compilation error '800a0400' Expected statement /pay_paypal.asp, line 366 <%end if ^ ********************** Other attempts - like removing the whole section - just brought an "expected end" error up on line 280 (which looks like it is ended and which looks EXACTLY as it does on a working page). This is starting to get maddening. Any ideas how to track this sort of problem down?? Thanks very much. Regards, David --- Ken Schaefer wrote: 354 NAME="item_name" id="item_name" VALUE="CD SPANISH"> 356 357 <% 358 end select 359 360 else%> 361 362 363 364 >> 365 <% >> 366 <%end if%> > > You have two opening <% one after the other. > After the first <%, ASP is expecting some kind of > statement, instead > it's seeing a second <%, hence "expected statement" > error. > > Cheers > Ken __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Sign up for Fantasy Baseball. http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/ From RPringle at aurora-il.org Mon Mar 14 11:31:35 2005 From: RPringle at aurora-il.org (Pringle, Ron) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:31:35 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Select QRY problem Message-ID: I'm using VBScript and Access 2000. I'm trying to select a specific record from my DB and am getting the following error: Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e10' [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Too few parameters. Expected 1. detail.asp, line 31 Line 31 is: DetailsRecordSet.Open() My SQL Query is: DetailsRecordSet.Source = "SELECT * FROM (((tbl_event EV INNER JOIN tbl_eventDates ED ON EV.eventID = ED.eventID) LEFT OUTER JOIN tbl_contact C ON EV.eventID = C.eventID) INNER JOIN tbl_link L ON EV.eventID = L.eventID) LEFT OUTER JOIN tbl_icon I ON EV.eventType = I.eventType WHERE tbl_eventDates.dateID = " & detailsID & "" The detailsID is passed from a querystring: detailsID=Request.QueryString("dateID") I removed all the joins and did a simple query on just the eventDates table and it works fine, so I'm assuming my joins are fubared and that its not returning any records. However, I use the same join statement in another query that pages the resulting recordset and it works fine. Any help would be appreciated. Regards, Ron From emily.tarrant at dsl.pipex.com Mon Mar 14 11:35:53 2005 From: emily.tarrant at dsl.pipex.com (Emily Tarrant) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:35:53 +0000 Subject: [thelist] Safari and cursive fonts In-Reply-To: References: <423463E3.4020207@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <4235CB79.5060509@dsl.pipex.com> Erik Heerlein wrote: >> Is there any reason why Safari won't display cursive fonts for me? > > > You may want to check out > http://www.codestyle.org/css/font-family/sampler-Mac.shtml > > and see if some of those cursive fonts show up in your Safari. If they > do, then I would say the problem lies in your code somewhere. > Brush Script MT, Apple Chancery and Comic Sans show up in my Safari. > Do you have a page online where other mac users can look and see if > the fonts you specified show up? Erik, thank you for your response. I've looked at the codestyle page and Safari does display the cursive fonts ok. So, I must be doing something wrong... I've put up a very simple test page: http://www.webfooteddesigns.co.uk/test/test.html (The css is included in the page.) When I look at it in Firefox I see the correct fonts, but in Safari I just see the same sans-serif font for all three headings. I'd be very grateful if you could look at it and tell me what you think. Best wishes Emily From peter at easylistbox.com Mon Mar 14 11:38:20 2005 From: peter at easylistbox.com (Peter Brunone (EasyListBox.com)) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:38:20 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Help Finding & Fixing VBScript Error... Arrrgghhh! Message-ID: ???You're going to need to show the whole file.? It looks like you've got another statement?(maybe a while loop?)?further up the page that the parser expects to be closed. From: Administrative HQ english_offline at yahoo.com Hi. Thanks for the reply. Sounds logical, but I can't seem to solve it. Removing the wrote: 354 NAME="item_name" id="item_name" VALUE="CD SPANISH"> id="item_number" VALUE="13"> 356 357 361 VALUE="Course"> 362 id="item_name" VALUE="CD EN"> 363 id="item_number" VALUE="1"> 364 id="Language" VALUE="EN"> >> 365 > 366 > > You have two opening <% one after the other. > After the first <%, ASP is expecting some kind of > statement, instead > it's seeing a second <%, hence "expected statement" > error. > > Cheers > Ken From jasonh at corestar.co.uk Mon Mar 14 11:48:04 2005 From: jasonh at corestar.co.uk (Jason Handby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:48:04 -0000 Subject: [thelist] Select QRY problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Ron, > I'm using VBScript and Access 2000. > > I'm trying to select a specific record from my DB and am > getting the following error: > > Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e10' > [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Too few parameters. > Expected 1. > > detail.asp, line 31 > > > Line 31 is: > DetailsRecordSet.Open() > > > My SQL Query is: > > DetailsRecordSet.Source = "SELECT * FROM (((tbl_event EV > INNER JOIN tbl_eventDates ED ON EV.eventID = ED.eventID) LEFT > OUTER JOIN tbl_contact C ON EV.eventID = C.eventID) INNER > JOIN tbl_link L ON EV.eventID = L.eventID) LEFT OUTER JOIN > tbl_icon I ON EV.eventType = I.eventType WHERE > tbl_eventDates.dateID = " & detailsID & "" > > The detailsID is passed from a querystring: > > detailsID=Request.QueryString("dateID") > > > I removed all the joins and did a simple query on just the > eventDates table and it works fine, so I'm assuming my joins > are fubared and that its not returning any records. However, > I use the same join statement in another query that pages the > resulting recordset and it works fine. > > Any help would be appreciated. Quite a likely cause is that your querystring parameter is empty. Try assigning a quoted string to detailsID just before your query and see if it works then. Jason From peter at easylistbox.com Mon Mar 14 12:37:22 2005 From: peter at easylistbox.com (Peter Brunone (EasyListBox.com)) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:37:22 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Select QRY problem Message-ID: ???When this happens, the first thing to do is to response.write the SQL statement so you can see what it's really saying to the DB.? Chances are you have an empty "detailsID" parameter. From: "Pringle, Ron" RPringle at aurora-il.org I'm using VBScript and Access 2000. I'm trying to select a specific record from my DB and am getting the following error: Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e10' [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Too few parameters. Expected 1. detail.asp, line 31 Line 31 is: DetailsRecordSet.Open() My SQL Query is: DetailsRecordSet.Source = "SELECT * FROM (((tbl_event EV INNER JOIN tbl_eventDates ED ON EV.eventID = ED.eventID) LEFT OUTER JOIN tbl_contact C ON EV.eventID = C.eventID) INNER JOIN tbl_link L ON EV.eventID = L.eventID) LEFT OUTER JOIN tbl_icon I ON EV.eventType = I.eventType WHERE tbl_eventDates.dateID = " & detailsID & "" The detailsID is passed from a querystring: detailsID=Request.QueryString("dateID") I removed all the joins and did a simple query on just the eventDates table and it works fine, so I'm assuming my joins are fubared and that its not returning any records. However, I use the same join statement in another query that pages the resulting recordset and it works fine. Any help would be appreciated. Regards, Ron From webguync at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 13:02:13 2005 From: webguync at gmail.com (Bruce Gilbert) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:02:13 -0500 Subject: [thelist] MySQL and SQL? Message-ID: <463b785d05031411029006511@mail.gmail.com> Sorry if this is a silly question... Is it possible to run SQL and MySQL together on a Windows 2003 server? We need to have MySQL to integrate our PHP scripts and SQL for a calendar program we are lookin at purchasing. -- ::Bruce:: From discuss at alphanumeric.cz Mon Mar 14 13:17:21 2005 From: discuss at alphanumeric.cz (Jan Brasna) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:17:21 +0100 Subject: [thelist] MySQL and SQL? In-Reply-To: <463b785d05031411029006511@mail.gmail.com> References: <463b785d05031411029006511@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4235E341.50505@alphanumeric.cz> If you mean MySQL and MSSQL then no problem, we us it as well... -- Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com From RPringle at aurora-il.org Mon Mar 14 13:19:20 2005 From: RPringle at aurora-il.org (Pringle, Ron) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:19:20 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Select QRY problem Message-ID: Peter et al- Thanks for the tips, it ended up being the simple fact that I hadn't converted my querystring into an integer, so of course it wasn't matching, and of course it wasn't selecting any records. Der. However, I would have thought it would have thrown a type mismatch error. Live and learn! Ron > ???When this happens, the first thing to do is to > response.write the SQL statement so you can see what it's > really saying to the DB.? Chances are you have an empty > "detailsID" parameter. > > From: "Pringle, Ron" RPringle at aurora-il.org > > I'm using VBScript and Access 2000. > > I'm trying to select a specific record from my DB and am getting the > following error: > > Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e10' > [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Too few parameters. > Expected 1. From english_offline at yahoo.com Mon Mar 14 13:26:27 2005 From: english_offline at yahoo.com (Administrative HQ) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:26:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [thelist] Help Finding & Fixing VBScript Error... Arrrgghhh! In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050314192627.56918.qmail@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello. Thanks for answering. This is what I've been trying to avoid (sending the whole thing) as I hate to be a nuisance. Sorry. Here goes: *************************** 1 <%@ Language=VBScript %> 2 <%'update dbase for cd order%> 3 4 5 6 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240
241 242 The Submit Button: I am certain this is a very simple script, I am just not that experienced with JS. I do a bit here and there, but that's about it. Can someone please help me out, or point me to an online example/tutorial? Thanks a bunch. From evolt_org at striderweb.com Tue Mar 15 10:29:39 2005 From: evolt_org at striderweb.com (Stephen Rider) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:29:39 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Multiple Templates vs Multiple Style Sheets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mar 11, 2005, at 6:11 PM, Rachell wrote: > The difference between the pages is the navigation. For example, if > you are > in the 'Media' section > (http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/Media/Galleries/Grafting2005/) we > want > the submenu to always remain visible. And in the 'Domaine' section > (http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/Domaine/Estate/Gardens.htm), we > want > the domaine menu to always remain visible. > Is there a way to code the differences without resorting to 20 million > different templates or style > sheets -- while being able to update the navigation rather easily? Give the of each page a class, depending on what section it is in. and so forth. Then in the (one!) stylesheet you set the submenus visible or invisible depending on whether the ID of the submenu matched the class of the body #navigation div div {display: none;} body.shop #shopmenu div {display: block;} body.domaine #domainemenu div {display: block;} ... or some variation thereof. One template. One stylesheet. All you change is the class of . Good luck! Steve From lists at onlinetools.org Tue Mar 15 10:23:59 2005 From: lists at onlinetools.org (Chris Heilmann) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:23:59 +0100 (CET) Subject: [thelist] Javascript: onChange to affect the Submit button? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46601.80.85.75.20.1110903839.squirrel@webmail01.nwu.net> > Hi all, > > I need a "simple" javascript (onChange maybe??) that will allow a > submit button to go to 1 of 2 pages depending on what is selected in a > pulldown menu, as shown below. > Don't do anything on an element in the page, it is a lot cleaner to do so on submit of the form. In your case function sendthis(f){ var elm=f.elements['searchpedigree']; switch(elm.options[elm.selectedIndex].value){ case 'search1': window.location='pageA.html'; break; case 'search2': window.location='pageA.html'; break; } return false; }
Does the trick. Make sure to have a fallback on the server though, otherwise it won't be possible for non-JS users to navigate. More information: http://www.evolt.org/forms_javascript/ P.S.: The above example is overly complicated for only two options, but extendable, and for two options a select is not the cleverest of UI elements anyway. -- Chris Heilmann Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com Writing: http://icant.co.uk/ Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/ From evolt_org at striderweb.com Tue Mar 15 10:38:17 2005 From: evolt_org at striderweb.com (Stephen Rider) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:38:17 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Are you designing with CSS and web standards? In-Reply-To: <4231D694.9030107@designshift.com> References: <42311743.1050604@richpoints.com> <4231C1AB.5030507@zstudio.co.uk> <4231D694.9030107@designshift.com> Message-ID: Responses to several people here... On Mar 11, 2005, at 11:34 AM, Sarah Sweeney wrote: >> It's a lottery whether your design will hit certain bugs; if it does, >> you can kiss your weekends goodbye. There are more hacks in CSS >> design than in table based design. How is that better for the web? > > The main difference, in my eyes, is that (with properly semantic HTML > in place) the CSS hacks you employ appear only once - in your CSS. > When you use tables for layout, the tables appear on every single page > in your site. Say you want to make a small change to the layout of the > entire site: if you've used semantic HTML and properly separated your > content and presentation, you only need to make a change to your CSS, > instead of having to change the markup of tables throughout your > entire site. This is where the major ROI of table-less design and > development comes into effect. I think that's entirely correct. I've been in situations where a client calls me to change something on an all-CSS site I did for him, and as he was describing it I FTP'ed in, pulled up the style sheet, and typed changes. After describing several minor-but-sitewide changes he asked how long all this would take to do, and I replied, "It's all done. Hit refresh on your browser and take a look." That was fun! :-) (Then danger of course is raising their expectation too high... but in the circumstances -- the client in that case was my brother -- I couldn't resist!) Admittedly, the initial design took longer, and I went out of my way to polish that sucker to a high gloss, but the flexibility of that website today is where the return on investment comes in big time. Between changing CSS and making grep search/replaces on the _very_ consistent HTML structure, (and a sprinkling of SSI for inserting common page elements), I can make wholesale changes to this large-ish site very quickly and easily. The danger I suppose is that someone will hire you to do the initial design, and then hire someone else to make changes later -- but that is offset by the fact that it is a lot easier (and faster) to examine and understand your own code than someone else's. Jonathan Dillon wrote: > See, the idea of XHTML (or what we're headed towards with XML described > languages) is actually really cool. It will lead to machines being > able to > process is discover information in ways we haven't even thought of yet. > Imagine if the Internet was a huge meta-database, where huge data > repositories expose massive web service engines that allow virtually > realtime access to relevant information. Google et al are very crude Robert Hanson wrote: > Consider a room full of novelists, caught up in a debate about which > tool - > Word or Wordperfect or a typewriter or paper and pencil - produce the > best > novel. (hint - it's the author) Same with the agument for/against > CSS. > It is a tool to help you create your presentation, and nothing more > than > than. In the short view, Robert is right on. In the long view, however, Jonathan is dead on the nose. Before you all discount the long view in the name of convenience, realize that the Internet itself is the direct result of visionaries taking the long view. (Isn't that the very definition of "visionary"? The ability to see things that aren't obvious and right in front of you?) Check this out. An interesting effort, and on the right track, I think (Though we have differences of opinion on data redundancy issues) Amy Johnson wrote: > I've done my last three sites in pure CSS. But it is a pain! > It takes so long to get them looking the same across all the platforms > (especially Macs). The problem was, they never _did_ look the same in all browsers. (especially Macs). How often did you see broken pieces of side borders pushed out by a paragraph or graphic? I saw it All the Time in the bad old days. "Best Viewed in This" "Best Viewed in That". UGH. Today when I see a website designed that sloppily, I question the professionalism of the organization. With CSS designs sometimes look a bit different from browser to browser; but with tables, they too often just looked _broken_. Like the website had been dropped or something -- shattered. It's more up front work usually, but I'm never going back. Steve From lists at onlinetools.org Tue Mar 15 10:30:19 2005 From: lists at onlinetools.org (Chris Heilmann) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:30:19 +0100 (CET) Subject: [thelist] Multiple Templates vs Multiple Style Sheets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46782.80.85.75.20.1110904219.squirrel@webmail01.nwu.net> >> Is there a way to code the differences without resorting to 20 million >> different templates or style >> sheets -- while being able to update the navigation rather easily? > > Give the of each page a class, depending on what section it is > in. and so forth. > > Then in the (one!) stylesheet you set the submenus visible or invisible > depending on whether the ID of the submenu matched the class of the > body > > > > #navigation div div {display: none;} > body.shop #shopmenu div {display: block;} > body.domaine #domainemenu div {display: block;} > > ... or some variation thereof. > > One template. One stylesheet. All you change is the class of . This only applies to users of browsers with your style sheet enabled. Just because you don't see things they are not gone. Other visitors might get a menu they don't need and just confuses them. In the worst case they have to tab through a lot of links or hear them. The above trick of a class on the body is great for colour schemes and positioning, but should not be abused for a problem that clearly is a structural issue, not a visual one. -- Chris Heilmann Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com Writing: http://icant.co.uk/ Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/ From phparch at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 10:40:43 2005 From: phparch at gmail.com (kerkness) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:40:43 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Javascript: onChange to affect the Submit button? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <38c64a3f0503150840677666b3@mail.gmail.com> Try a google search for "javascript select navigation" you'll find plenty of examples like this one http://www.af-design.com/resources/javascript_locationbox.php many to choose from. On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:13:26 -0500, Jono wrote: > Hi all, > > I need a "simple" javascript (onChange maybe??) that will allow a > submit button to go to 1 of 2 pages depending on what is selected in a > pulldown menu, as shown below. > > The pulldown menu: > > > > The Submit Button: > > > I am certain this is a very simple script, I am just not that > experienced with JS. I do a bit here and there, but that's about it. > Can someone please help me out, or point me to an online > example/tutorial? > > Thanks a bunch. > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From lists at onlinetools.org Tue Mar 15 10:33:39 2005 From: lists at onlinetools.org (Chris Heilmann) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:33:39 +0100 (CET) Subject: [thelist] Javascript: onChange to affect the Submit button? In-Reply-To: <46601.80.85.75.20.1110903839.squirrel@webmail01.nwu.net> References: <46601.80.85.75.20.1110903839.squirrel@webmail01.nwu.net> Message-ID: <46878.80.85.75.20.1110904419.squirrel@webmail01.nwu.net> > > function sendthis(f){ > var elm=f.elements['searchpedigree']; > switch(elm.options[elm.selectedIndex].value){ > case 'search1': > window.location='pageA.html'; > break; > case 'search2': > window.location='pageA.html'; > That second one should be pageB.html of course... -- Chris Heilmann Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com Writing: http://icant.co.uk/ Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/ From rob.smith at THERMON.com Tue Mar 15 14:16:05 2005 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:16:05 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Proceed to Checkout - Authorize.net Question Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D260@smtmb.tmc.local> Hi, this is more of a preference and I'm in a debate with myself on the best way to do this. Collect Information -> Confirm -> Pay -> Receipt Page At what point in this process do you store the information into your database? The Authoroize.net form (AIM) is a post to their .dll. So obviously you have to store the information before you pay. But should you do it before you confirm? :: Collect Information -> Confirm -> Pay -> Receipt Page | L--- here + form validation? That way if you hit the back button (browser or ) you can still edit this before presenting the user with confirm everything. The Confirm page will not have any forms but all the hidden fields that the AIM requires. Also, for some odd reason, my account gives me a white "test mode" page, when my account is in "live mode". Very odd. Rob Smith From brian.delaney at mccmh.net Tue Mar 15 14:50:57 2005 From: brian.delaney at mccmh.net (Brian Delaney) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:50:57 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Tough querystring problem! Message-ID: <42374AB1.5020507@mccmh.net> Let me explain as best as I can: 1. User inputs date information and clicks submit which opens a new window. 2. Based on the user input data is displayed from a date range 3. Each field header (TH) can be sorted asc or desc ( I use href '+' or '-'.) the href is as follows: javascript('fieldname','asc') or 'desc' if they clicked the minus sign. 4.The javascript posts the data back to the asp page and sets a post value if true then the page is refreshed based on the sort information. The Problem: When the page first laods I capture three values: option,start and end. >From the querystring. These represent the dates and type of report so I can build the header. ex. 9, 1/1/2005, 3/31/2005 would read:* Quarterly report for dates: 1/1/2005 to 3/31/2005* I capture them as hidden values for the first sort, but after that they are lost and no header displays because all values are lost. Any Ideas? * * * This message, including any attachments, is intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or priveleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution of this communication(s) is expressly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy any and all copies of the original message. From lists at onlinetools.org Tue Mar 15 15:47:19 2005 From: lists at onlinetools.org (Christian Heilmann) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:47:19 +0000 Subject: [thelist] Tough querystring problem! In-Reply-To: <42374AB1.5020507@mccmh.net> References: <42374AB1.5020507@mccmh.net> Message-ID: <423757E7.6060908@onlinetools.org> Brian Delaney wrote: > Let me explain as best as I can: > > 1. User inputs date information and clicks submit which opens a new > window. > > 2. Based on the user input data is displayed from a date range > > 3. Each field header (TH) can be sorted asc or desc ( I use href '+' > or '-'.) > the href is as follows: javascript('fieldname','asc') or 'desc' if > they clicked the minus sign. > > 4.The javascript posts the data back to the asp page and sets a post > value if true then the page is refreshed based on the sort information. > > The Problem: > > When the page first laods I capture three values: option,start and end. > >> From the querystring. > > > These represent the dates and type of report so I can build the header. > > ex. 9, 1/1/2005, 3/31/2005 would read:* Quarterly report for dates: > 1/1/2005 to 3/31/2005* > > I capture them as hidden values for the first sort, but after that > they are lost and no header displays because all values are lost. > > Any Ideas? > Stop relying on javascript for these rather important elements when you use ASP anyways? Or extend your javascript to grab these values onload and store them in hidden fields, so that they can be sent to the server again. From hassan at webtuitive.com Tue Mar 15 15:20:56 2005 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:20:56 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Proceed to Checkout - Authorize.net Question In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D260@smtmb.tmc.local> References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D260@smtmb.tmc.local> Message-ID: <423751B8.5000406@webtuitive.com> Rob Smith wrote: > this is more of a preference and I'm in a debate with myself on the best way > to do this. > > Collect Information -> Confirm -> Pay -> Receipt Page > > At what point in this process do you store the information into your > database? The Authoroize.net form (AIM) is a post to their .dll. So > obviously you have to store the information before you pay. Uh, why "obviously"? I don't store anything to the database until the "accepted" status comes back from the transaction gateway... -- Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Tue Mar 15 15:53:01 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:53:01 +1100 Subject: [thelist] Select QRY problem Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF2DF@kjserver1.kjhome.local> : -----Original Message----- : From: thelist-bounces-ken=adopenstatic.com at lists.evolt.org : [mailto:thelist-bounces-ken=adopenstatic.com at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of : Phil Turmel : Subject: Re: [thelist] Select QRY problem : : I do this by casting numbers from GET/POST/COOKIE variables into long : integer or float. Then concatenate into SQL statement. If something is : missing, I'll get a zero, but no SQL syntax error. And I'm safe from : deliberately malformed GET/POST contents. Um, in most languages you'd get a type mismatch error, not a 0 :-) : How all this is done varies with language (I use PHP on my webservers), : but the principle is the same: SQL Statements that include data from : web forms or other possibly fudged data must be built from carefully : validated substrings. I still recommend y'all google "SQL Injection". Absolutely. Here are some starting links: http://www.nextgenss.com/papers/advanced_sql_injection.pdf http://www.nextgenss.com/papers/more_advanced_sql_injection.pdf : The side benefit of this: never getting a SQL syntax error from bad user : data. Constructing SQL statements in your presentation layer code is a maintenance nightmare. Whilst there are obviously corner cases, I would wager that 9 out of every 10 programmers who deal with data layers and below would tell you to move your SQL into the database, rather than trying to maintain inline concatenated SQL. The better way to protect yourself against SQL Injection is to use prepared statements (e.g. Command & Parameter Objects in ADO) coupled with stored procedures in your database. Cheers Ken From vaspersthegrate at yahoo.com Tue Mar 15 16:26:10 2005 From: vaspersthegrate at yahoo.com (Steven Streight) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:26:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [thelist] RE: troubling Mail delivery failed message Message-ID: <20050315222610.86902.qmail@web53506.mail.yahoo.com> I use Firefox browser. In my Gmail spam file, I saw a message with subject: "Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender" The From party does not exist. I googled the sender of this delivery failure message, no info, except a web site, which of course I did not go to. I did a search of my mail for the alleged address I sent a message to. No such address. Here's the intro of message: "This message has been rejected because it has a potentially executable attachment..." then it mentions a pif attachment, whatever that is. I only sent RTF rich text format documents as attachments, never any other kind. It is a multi-part message in MIME format. Not as an attachment, but in the body of the message, there are 6 pages of nonsense like "ERT8744duiDDF9098oi8" etc. What is this? I deleted it, but regret opening it. Have I finally been tricked by the bad guys? Steven Streight Web Usability Analyst & Content Writer Blogologist Digital Media Artist Virtual Instrument Music Composer http://www.vaspersthegrate.blogspot.com http://www.streightsite.blogspot.com http://www.arttestexplosion.blogspot.com EMAIL: vaspersthegrate at yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ From lists at neptunewebworks.com Tue Mar 15 17:03:58 2005 From: lists at neptunewebworks.com (Maximillian Schwanekamp) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:03:58 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Proceed to Checkout - Authorize.net Question In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D260@smtmb.tmc.local> References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D260@smtmb.tmc.local> Message-ID: <423769DE.5080506@neptunewebworks.com> Rob Smith wrote: >Collect Information -> Confirm -> Pay -> Receipt Page >At what point in this process do you store the information into your >database? The Authorize.net form (AIM) is a post to their .dll. So >obviously you have to store the information before you pay. But should you >do it before you confirm? :: > > No, not necessarily. You could just put the info into session variable(s) until you get an approval. However, I find that my clients like to have a record of transactions non-approved transactions as well as the approved ones, so I store the info in a table with columns for transaction id (as generated by AuthNet, default empty string) approval status, approval code etc. >Collect Information -> Confirm -> Pay -> Receipt Page > | > L--- here + form validation? > >That way if you hit the back button (browser or onclick="window.history.go(-1)" value="Back">) you can still edit this >before presenting the user with confirm everything. The Confirm page will >not have any forms but all the hidden fields that the AIM requires. > Are you thinking of SIM rather than AIM? Normally AIM is done server-side: i.e. the customer submits the order to your server, your server sends the post data directly to AuthNet, captures the response data from AuthNet, and gives an appropriate friendly response to the customer. I believe it is SIM where you have the customer's browser make the post to Authorize.Net directly. Continuing with the method just described, I pass an internally-generated unique order ID (e.g. the primary key of my transactions table) to AuthNet, which then passes it back in the response, and the transaction record gets updated with the approval code, etc (verifying the session ID as well as the order ID). Anyway, that's the general flow that I have been using successfully for a few years. From erik at erikheerlein.com Tue Mar 15 17:06:22 2005 From: erik at erikheerlein.com (Erik Heerlein) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:06:22 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Proceed to Checkout - Authorize.net Question In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D260@smtmb.tmc.local> References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D260@smtmb.tmc.local> Message-ID: <3717c4a8a6b2da47cdba42e8ba74379b@erikheerlein.com> > At what point in this process do you store the information into your > database? What information are you referring to? Shipping address, cost of shipping, etc. or is your question solely relating to the credit card information necessary to make a transaction? I don't store the credit card info until after acknowledgment from authorize.net and I only save the last 4 digits of the card for the customer's reference. [>] Erik Heerlein Web Developer 843-762-9382 erik at erikheerlein.com http://www.erikheerlein.com From keith at digital-crew.com Tue Mar 15 18:26:36 2005 From: keith at digital-crew.com (Keith Gaughan) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 00:26:36 +0000 Subject: [thelist] Avoiding DHTML memory leaks for good. Message-ID: <42377D3C.5050803@digital-crew.com> I thought I'd share this because it might be useful. Last weekend I got sick and tired of DHTML memory leaks, so I knocked together some code to handle it: http://talideon.com/weblog/2005/03/js-memory-leaks.cfm It's not hard to use. Just include it before any code that uses it. You can register event handlers like so: EventManager.Add(obj, eventType, handler); Where _obj_ is the object or id of the object you want to attach an event handler to, _eventType_ is the name of the event to listen to (note to IE users: omit the initial "on" in the name; it should be "mousemove" or "click", not "onmousemove" or "onclick"), and _handler_ is the function to be called when the event is triggered. Here's a simple example. Say you have a button whose id is "foo", and you want to be told when it's clicked, to do so you can do: var elem = document.getElementById("foo"); EventManager.Add(elem, "click", function() { alert("Button 'foo' clicked!"); }); Or: EventManager.Add("foo", "click", function() { alert("Button 'foo' clicked!"); }); Easy peasy. When the browser unloads the page, EventManager automagically cleans up any event handlers registered with it. This fixes some severe memory leakage problems you can get with IE, and to a lesser extent with other browsers. It's free to use. Just keep the copyright at the top of the file and don't pass it off as your own work. If you make extensive use of it in anything, some attribution would be nice, though not essential, and it'd also be cool if I could see where it's used so I can have my ego stroked a bit. :-) K. From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Tue Mar 15 18:33:01 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:33:01 +1100 Subject: [thelist] RE: troubling Mail delivery failed message Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF2E3@kjserver1.kjhome.local> Hi there, I think you'll find that the original message had a "spoofed" From: address (which happened to be yours). An antivirus filter at the recipient's end bounced the message back to the purported serve (you). Most viruses that spread themselves via SMTP/email work like this, and have done so for years. Person A gets infected. The virus scans their harddisk looking for email addresses. It constructs a message from Person B to Person C and sends it off. Person C thinks the message came from Person B. It makes tracking down the actual infected party (Person A) relatively difficult. But this is a bit off-topic, so I won't go into any more detail. Suffice to say, you probably have nothing to worry about. Cheers, Ken : -----Original Message----- : From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist- : bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Steven Streight : Sent: Wednesday, 16 March 2005 8:26 AM : To: thelist at lists.evolt.org : Subject: [thelist] RE: troubling Mail delivery failed message : : I use Firefox browser. : : In my Gmail spam file, I saw a message with subject: : "Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender" : : The From party does not exist. I googled the sender of : this delivery failure message, no info, except a web : site, which of course I did not go to. : : I did a search of my mail for the alleged address I : sent a message to. No such address. : : Here's the intro of message: "This message has been : rejected because it has a potentially executable : attachment..." then it mentions a pif attachment, : whatever that is. : : I only sent RTF rich text format documents as : attachments, never any other kind. : : It is a multi-part message in MIME format. Not as an : attachment, but in the body of the message, there are : 6 pages of nonsense like "ERT8744duiDDF9098oi8" etc. : : What is this? I deleted it, but regret opening it. : : Have I finally been tricked by the bad guys? : : Steven Streight : Web Usability Analyst & Content Writer : Blogologist : Digital Media Artist : Virtual Instrument Music Composer From microme_2000 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 15 19:36:16 2005 From: microme_2000 at yahoo.com (BMP) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:36:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [thelist] Spider Attack In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050316013616.49338.qmail@web60904.mail.yahoo.com> Hi I need someone to advise me about preventing robot spiders from using excess bandwidth on my website. I know something about HTML, JS but Perl, etc. are not known. I have a robots.txt file, but I am not sure if the spiders searching my site are friendly or not, so I am hesitating about excluding them until I can get more information about them. The biggest abuser seems to be Mozilla Gecko. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page From evolt at mpember.net.au Tue Mar 15 20:10:14 2005 From: evolt at mpember.net.au (Michael Pemberton) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:10:14 +1100 Subject: [thelist] Spider Attack In-Reply-To: <20050316013616.49338.qmail@web60904.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050316013616.49338.qmail@web60904.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42379586.5000108@mpember.net.au> BMP wrote: > I need someone to advise me about preventing robot spiders from using excess bandwidth on my website. I know something about HTML, JS but Perl, etc. are not known. I have a robots.txt file, but I am not sure if the spiders searching my site are friendly or not, so I am hesitating about excluding them until I can get more information about them. The biggest abuser seems to be Mozilla Gecko. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Mozilla Gecko? This is a valid browser. It is most likely these hits are your visitors that are using Mozilla or Firefox. Do not make any attempt to block this user agent. -- Michael Pemberton evolt at mpember.net.au From keith at digital-crew.com Tue Mar 15 20:26:14 2005 From: keith at digital-crew.com (Keith Gaughan) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 02:26:14 +0000 Subject: [thelist] Avoiding DHTML memory leaks for good (tips redux) Message-ID: <42379946.1040503@digital-crew.com> After being given a friendly push offlist by Matt Warden, I'm reposting this as a tip. Sorry about the doublepost. I thought I'd share this because it might be useful. Last weekend I got sick and tired of DHTML memory leaks, so I knocked together some code to handle it: http://talideon.com/weblog/2005/03/js-memory-leaks.cfm It's not hard to use. Just include it before any code that uses it. You can register event handlers like so: EventManager.Add(obj, eventType, handler); Where _obj_ is the object or id of the object you want to attach an event handler to, _eventType_ is the name of the event to listen to (note to IE users: omit the initial "on" in the name; it should be "mousemove" or "click", not "onmousemove" or "onclick"), and _handler_ is the function to be called when the event is triggered. Here's a simple example. Say you have a button whose id is "foo", and you want to be told when it's clicked, to do so you can do: var elem = document.getElementById("foo"); EventManager.Add(elem, "click", function() { alert("Button 'foo' clicked!"); }); Or: EventManager.Add("foo", "click", function() { alert("Button 'foo' clicked!"); }); Easy peasy. When the browser unloads the page, EventManager automagically cleans up any event handlers registered with it. This fixes some severe memory leakage problems you can get with IE, and to a lesser extent with other browsers. It's free to use. Just keep the copyright at the top of the file and don't pass it off as your own work. If you make extensive use of it in anything, some attribution would be nice, though not essential, and it'd also be cool if I could see where it's used so I can have my ego stroked a bit. :-) K. From mark.mandel at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 20:36:06 2005 From: mark.mandel at gmail.com (Mark Mandel) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:36:06 +1100 Subject: [thelist] Spider Attack In-Reply-To: <42379586.5000108@mpember.net.au> References: <20050316013616.49338.qmail@web60904.mail.yahoo.com> <42379586.5000108@mpember.net.au> Message-ID: <4153ee2305031518367fb64858@mail.gmail.com> It could also be a referred spider. Those are nasty creatures. If you have Apache, you can user .htaccess to stop them from entering your site. If not you can just be nasty - like so: http://www.compoundtheory.com/?action=displayPost&ID=48 Search spiders are good. Spiders don't tend to take up too much bandwitdth anyway - all they grab are html files, which shouldn't be huge in the 1st place. HTH Mark On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:10:14 +1100, Michael Pemberton wrote: > BMP wrote: > > I need someone to advise me about preventing robot spiders from using excess bandwidth on my website. I know something about HTML, JS but Perl, etc. are not known. I have a robots.txt file, but I am not sure if the spiders searching my site are friendly or not, so I am hesitating about excluding them until I can get more information about them. The biggest abuser seems to be Mozilla Gecko. Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Mozilla Gecko? > > This is a valid browser. It is most likely these hits are your visitors > that are using Mozilla or Firefox. Do not make any attempt to block > this user agent. > > -- > Michael Pemberton > evolt at mpember.net.au > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > -- E: mark.mandel at gmail.com W: www.compoundtheory.com ICQ: 3094740 From ox4dboy at comcast.net Tue Mar 15 10:05:53 2005 From: ox4dboy at comcast.net (Jono) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:05:53 -0500 Subject: [thelist] [ot] Mac Antivirus In-Reply-To: References: <4230AA49.5070809@neptunewebworks.com> Message-ID: <5ab3f7a6efd624554cdcbda1071ff689@comcast.net> You can poke around here fro MacWorld reviews of software: http://macworld.pricegrabber.com/home_catpage.php/catzero=38 On Mar 12, 2005, at 5:06 AM, Wesley Aaron Mason wrote: > Apple seem to favour McAfee Virex as part of .Mac (never used either > myself): http://www.mac.com/1/iTour/tour_antivirus.html > > > On Mar 10, 2005, at 8:12 pm, Maximillian Schwanekamp wrote: > >> Sorry for the OT post. A Mac-using client has finally moved to OS X, >> and is wondering about antivirus software, anything but Norton (her >> req). Any enthusastic recommendations? Replies offlist, please. >> >> >> -- >> Maximillian Von Schwanekamp From evoltlist at delime.com Tue Mar 15 21:29:32 2005 From: evoltlist at delime.com (M. Seyon) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 23:29:32 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Tough querystring problem! In-Reply-To: <42374AB1.5020507@mccmh.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20050315232740.022e0f00@mx.delime.com> Message from Brian Delaney (3/15/2005 04:50 PM) >Let me explain as best as I can: > >3. Each field header (TH) can be sorted asc or desc ( I use href '+' or '-'.) > the href is as follows: javascript('fieldname','asc') or 'desc' if > they clicked the minus sign. Bad idea. I'd never guess that +/- means ascending/descending. I'd think "add/remove this column". Why not little up/down arrow gifs? >4.The javascript posts the data back to the asp page and sets a post value >if true then the page is refreshed based on the sort information. I'd probably send the querystring via GET, that way it's appended to the URL and can be easily manipulated in the code that generates your links, rather than needing hidden form values. regards. -marc -- Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com http://www.playyuhself.com/ From lists at neptunewebworks.com Tue Mar 15 22:25:29 2005 From: lists at neptunewebworks.com (Maximillian Schwanekamp) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:25:29 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Spider Attack In-Reply-To: <20050316013616.49338.qmail@web60904.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050316013616.49338.qmail@web60904.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4237B539.1010207@neptunewebworks.com> BMP wrote: >I need someone to advise me about preventing robot spiders from using excess bandwidth on my website. The biggest abuser seems to be Mozilla Gecko. Any help would be greatly appreciated. > OK, I'll bite. Mozilla Gecko is not a spider, but currently the most popular rival browser on the market. In some geek circles it has become #1. If you're seeing lots of Gecko in your logs/stats, that is human traffic, not spiders. http://www.mozilla.org/ That said, here's an article that may get you going "How to block spambots, ban spybots, and tell unwanted robots to go to hell" by Mark Pilgrim. Some additional links in the comments to the article. http://url123.com/25633 From mwarden at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 22:48:51 2005 From: mwarden at gmail.com (Matt Warden) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 23:48:51 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Spider Attack In-Reply-To: <20050316013616.49338.qmail@web60904.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050316013616.49338.qmail@web60904.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:36:16 -0800 (PST), BMP wrote: > Hi > > I need someone to advise me about preventing robot spiders from using excess bandwidth on my website. I know something about HTML, JS but Perl, etc. are not known. I have a robots.txt file, but I am not sure if the spiders searching my site are friendly or not, so I am hesitating about excluding them until I can get more information about them. The biggest abuser seems to be Mozilla Gecko. Any help would be greatly appreciated. > See Dan Cody's articles: http://five2one.org/articles/Stopping_spambots_I.html http://five2one.org/articles/Stopping_spambots_II.html -- Matt Warden Miami University Oxford, OH, USA http://mattwarden.com This email proudly and graciously contributes to entropy. From robert at pennyonthesidewalk.com Tue Mar 15 23:20:34 2005 From: robert at pennyonthesidewalk.com (Robert Gormley) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 16:20:34 +1100 Subject: [thelist] Spider Attack In-Reply-To: <20050316013616.49338.qmail@web60904.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050316013616.49338.qmail@web60904.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4237C222.2050708@pennyonthesidewalk.com> BMP wrote: >Hi > >I need someone to advise me about preventing robot spiders from using excess bandwidth on my website. I know something about HTML, JS but Perl, etc. are not known. I have a robots.txt file, but I am not sure if the spiders searching my site are friendly or not, so I am hesitating about excluding them until I can get more information about them. The biggest abuser seems to be Mozilla Gecko. Any help would be greatly appreciated. > If you can read the logfiles, see if the user agent/IP combination hits /robots.txt as its first GET... A simple method of seeing if it's a) a robot, probably well-behaved, or b) a user/ill-behaved robot. Robert From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Tue Mar 15 23:47:06 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 16:47:06 +1100 Subject: [thelist] IE7 and standards Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF2EC@kjserver1.kjhome.local> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/03/09/391362.aspx Chris Wilson praises the help of sites like quirksmode.com etc in helping build better standards support in IE7. So maybe Microsoft is listening? Something to look forward to - I suppose it can't get any worse :-) Cheers Ken From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Wed Mar 16 00:11:26 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 17:11:26 +1100 Subject: IETeam Blog - addendum to RE: [thelist] IE7 and standards Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF2EE@kjserver1.kjhome.local> Wasn't someone on the list having an issue with active scripting being blocked when it was run from a webpage contained on a CD? Looks like this post from earlier this month addresses that issue: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/03/07/388992.aspx Cheers Ken : -----Original Message----- : From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist- : bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer : Sent: Wednesday, 16 March 2005 3:47 PM : To: thelist at lists.evolt.org : Subject: [thelist] IE7 and standards : : http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/03/09/391362.aspx : : Chris Wilson praises the help of sites like quirksmode.com etc in helping : build better standards support in IE7. So maybe Microsoft is listening? : Something to look forward to - I suppose it can't get any worse :-) : : Cheers : Ken From greencoder at mail.com Wed Mar 16 07:53:58 2005 From: greencoder at mail.com (Timy McTipperstan) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:53:58 -0500 Subject: [thelist] header, footer static Message-ID: <20050316135359.A0DCF6F027@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com> trying to look at the best way of doing this. I have a global header and footer.? They are both static, so would the best thing to do be to build them on startup as an application attribute?? or as an include or what? Anyt thoughts? -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Wed Mar 16 08:07:53 2005 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:07:53 -0600 Subject: [thelist] header, footer static Message-ID: [snip] trying to look at the best way of doing this. I have a global header and footer.? They are both static, so would the best thing to do be to build them on startup as an application attribute?? or as an include or what? Anyt thoughts? [/snip] I have several thoughts, many which may not be suitable here. On static headers and footers my personal preference is as includes. YMMV. Have you flushed your tables lately? We often forget about doing the most basic maintenance on our databases (especially manually) so setting up an automatic maintenance cycle once a week (via CRON or Task Scheduler) including table flushes is a good thing and will keep your databases in tip-top operating condition. From mark at testwiz.com Wed Mar 16 08:28:25 2005 From: mark at testwiz.com (Mark Marlow) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:28:25 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Tough querystring problem! In-Reply-To: <42374AB1.5020507@mccmh.net> Message-ID: <3rb42s$mov0me@mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net> To paraphrase your requirement: Main page opens report page in new window by passing a date argument. Report page is displayed. User clicks hyperlinks in column heading to request a sorted report page. Solution 1: Append any data required for page to refresh to the hyperlinks used to sort during ASP processing. E.g. Href="report.asp?sortdir=asc&sortcol=company&date=010105&option=x&start=y&en d=z". Any variables in the get string will be available on the server side. Solution 2: Keep values in hidden form variables during ASP processing. A javascript method called from each columns + would have parameters to indicate the column and direction. The sort() function would update a pair of hidden variables "SortColumn" "SortDirection" appropriately, then call the form's submit method. Any data stored in the hidden variables will be available on the Server side. Solution 2 involves client side scripting, thus is a bit more risky. Keep in mind that depending on the values of the arguments you pass around, you might have to URL encode them. - Mark From dan.mccullough at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 08:32:24 2005 From: dan.mccullough at gmail.com (Dan McCullough) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:32:24 -0500 Subject: [thelist] header, footer static In-Reply-To: <20050316135359.A0DCF6F027@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20050316135359.A0DCF6F027@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: I would do includes no need to get to fancy with static content. :) On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:53:58 -0500, Timy McTipperstan wrote: > trying to look at the best way of doing this. > I have a global header and footer. They are both static, so would the best thing to do be to build them on startup as an application attribute? or as an include or what? > Anyt thoughts? > -- > ___________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From RPringle at aurora-il.org Tue Mar 15 09:55:20 2005 From: RPringle at aurora-il.org (Pringle, Ron) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:55:20 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Are you designing with CSS and web standards? Message-ID: > I completely agree with Ian. Pure CSS is a noble cause, and > CSS has already > had a huge impact on the accessibility and visual appearance > of the web > during the last few years. It is, however, far from perfect, > and the overly > fanatic push to move straight to pure 100% CSS-layouts is not > a realistic > option these days. > Suni Suni- For some of us, CSS isn't an option, its the rule. Part of my job description includes coding to current web standards (HTML 4/CSS 2), and accessibility is one of the primary goals. Honestly, I think I'm in a perfect position to use pure CSS. I'm not laboring under intensive client deadlines (yes, I DO have deadlines, but not like when I was trying to crank out 4 websites a week at my old job), accessibility and web standards compliance are actually major goals, and I only have this one site to worry about, so I will be fine-tuning it even after it goes live. When I designed the site, I did so without any knowledge of CSS. I simply identified the criteria the new redesign needed to fulfill, and designed it to do so. I then used CSS to implement that design specifically because of the accessibility issues. It was a learning process, and still is, but I have not had to bend my design to comply with CSS at all. The redesign is a 3 column layout, any column longest, flexible layout with a footer and header, and a lot of dynamic elements. I would consider it a complex, dynamic website with a fairly large audience and a good proof of the abilities of CSS for standard website design. Its not a Zen Garden entry, it doesn't look like a blog. Its just your typical municipal website. :-) Yes, I could have done the design in tables and it probably would have taken less time to develop, but it would also be much less accessible. I guess what I'm saying is that for my "sector", CSS not only makes sense, but is and should be the standard, if only for accessibility issues. However, I'm lucky in that I don't have to deal with multiple clients on tight budgets and deadlines. Hopefully standards compliant browsers enter widespread mainstream use. I see IE as the single biggest factor holding back developers using CSS. Regards, Ron From muraii at yahoo.com Wed Mar 16 10:03:55 2005 From: muraii at yahoo.com (Daniel LeVangie-Stricklen) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:03:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [thelist] Rapid IA Prototyping Message-ID: <20050316160356.32070.qmail@web50307.mail.yahoo.com> Hi there, I've read a few things about how various web designers prototype their designs (Jason Santa Maria's Grey Box Method [http://www.jasonsantamaria.com/archive/2004/05/24/grey_box_method.php] chief among them). I have two questions for the list: (a) What do you use as a method for prototyping? (b) Do you do something differently if it's another IA document, say, an application interface or document template? I ask because I'm going to transition into a position within my company that would have me, at least part of the time, working on interfaces for a variety of information documents, templates, and the like. For instance, we use custom Excel templates in a variety of situations (unfortunately, like much of the business world). Using Illustrator might not make as much sense in this case. Thoughts? Daniel __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ From evolt_org at striderweb.com Wed Mar 16 10:32:41 2005 From: evolt_org at striderweb.com (Stephen Rider) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:32:41 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Multiple Templates vs Multiple Style Sheets In-Reply-To: <46782.80.85.75.20.1110904219.squirrel@webmail01.nwu.net> References: <46782.80.85.75.20.1110904219.squirrel@webmail01.nwu.net> Message-ID: <9475828a02d3f1d508f1aecff40ceebb@striderweb.com> On Mar 15, 2005, at 10:30 AM, Chris Heilmann wrote: >> Give the of each page a class, depending on what section it is >> in. and so forth. >> >> Then in the (one!) stylesheet you set the submenus visible or >> invisible >> depending on whether the ID of the submenu matched the class of the >> body > > This only applies to users of browsers with your style sheet enabled. > Just > because you don't see things they are not gone. Other visitors might > get a > menu they don't need and just confuses them. In the worst case they > have > to tab through a lot of links or hear them. > > The above trick of a class on the body is great for colour schemes and > positioning, but should not be abused for a problem that clearly is a > structural issue, not a visual one. Are you against using entire navigation lists in general, or are you put off by the fact that I left it as a bunch of DIVs instead of putting it in a UL? I understand what you are saying, but it seems pretty common to structurally have the entire navigation, and tinker with CSS to hide/display parts of it as needed. Do you consider Suckerfish menus a bad idea as well? I left it as DIVs mainly because I was (perhaps inappropriately) trying to keep it very simple and focus on the specific technique I was describing. A few skip links stuck in there would probably bypass the issue you describe (which is a legitimate concern), but I'm not sure why you see this as a bad idea overall. From brian.delaney at mccmh.net Wed Mar 16 10:56:09 2005 From: brian.delaney at mccmh.net (Brian Delaney) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:56:09 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Tough querystring problem! In-Reply-To: <3rb42s$mov0me@mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <3rb42s$mov0me@mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <42386529.7040809@mccmh.net> I went with option #1. I pretty much did exactly as stated and now I capture the option,start,end as well as sort arguments. Thanks for the help! Mark Marlow wrote: >To paraphrase your requirement: > >Main page opens report page in new window by passing a date argument. >Report page is displayed. >User clicks hyperlinks in column heading to request a sorted report page. > >Solution 1: >Append any data required for page to refresh to the hyperlinks used to sort >during ASP processing. E.g. >Href="report.asp?sortdir=asc&sortcol=company&date=010105&option=x&start=y&en >d=z". Any variables in the get string will be available on the server side. > >Solution 2: >Keep values in hidden form variables during ASP processing. A javascript >method called from each columns href="javascript:sort('sales','up')">+ would have parameters to indicate >the column and direction. The sort() function would update a pair of hidden >variables "SortColumn" "SortDirection" appropriately, then call the form's >submit method. Any data stored in the hidden variables will be available on >the Server side. > >Solution 2 involves client side scripting, thus is a bit more risky. Keep >in mind that depending on the values of the arguments you pass around, you >might have to URL encode them. >- Mark > > > > > * * * This message, including any attachments, is intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or priveleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution of this communication(s) is expressly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy any and all copies of the original message. From ian at zstudio.co.uk Wed Mar 16 11:01:11 2005 From: ian at zstudio.co.uk (Ian Anderson) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 17:01:11 +0000 Subject: [thelist] Are you designing with CSS and web standards? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42386657.8080803@zstudio.co.uk> Pringle, Ron wrote: >For some of us, CSS isn't an option, its the rule. Part of my job >description includes coding to current web standards (HTML 4/CSS 2), and >accessibility is one of the primary goals. > > Brilliant - pleased to hear it! You must have a very satisfying job. >... > >Yes, I could have done the design in tables and it probably would have taken >less time to develop, but it would also be much less accessible. > > I'm sorry to be contrary, but "much less accessible"? I have to challenge that. [caution - accessibility rant follows] I have been specialising in web accessibility for a couple of years now, including nearly a year consulting with a major UK bank on their accessibility projects. I have tested table based designs against most popular screen readers and we had significant user testing with blind, visually impaired, dyslexic and mobility impaired users. Not one - not ONE - problem was encountered in any testing owing to tables. Of course, we designed the tables so there wouldn't be, but all the same... The site in question was a hybrid design - simple tables with lots of CSS, but we had up to three or four levels of nesting in some complex areas. Not a peep from the screen reader users; they reported it to be a very accessible site. The problems they had were with higher level issues such as the phrasing of instructions, and so on. Of course a site is more accessible with CSS-only layouts; PDA users appreciate them, I believe. But to throw statements like "much less accessible" around is not accurate. It's very much a marginal issue, in my judgement. CSS layouts are only *slightly* more accessible than good table layouts. Bad table layouts; well, there's no difference between a bad table layout and a bad CSS layout; clearly both are undesirable. Yes, you can have CSS-only layouts that have bad accessibility problems. Making too much about tables and accessibility somewhat ignores the fact that users with disabilities have adapted to the way the web is now (essentially table-based) and so have their assistive technologies. Tables don't give current users any really big problems; if they did, users would ditch their assistive technology for one that could cope. Accessibility tools and the people who use them are pragmatic; people have lives to get on with, and they use the web enthusiastically. There are things that are extremely serious barriers to users with disabilities on the web, but tables generally aren't amongst those things. If the content in the table doesn't make sense read in source order, that's an accessibility issue. If the content in a css layout doesn't make sense read in source order, that's an accessibilty issue too. If you have a huge list of links before your content, that's an accessibility issue - but it's an issue with having too many links, not how they are positioned. You need to provide a skip link, whether the design uses CSS or tables. The main problem with lots of links is for mobility impaired users; tables or CSS positioning is entirely irrelevant to them. They need a skip link and that's all there is to it. Excessive nesting *is* annoying to some screen reader users - but it isn't a huge access barrier. Hybrid designs, which tend to avoid nesting with very simple layout tables and CSS, are *highly* accessible. The most important issue with tables is does the page make sense when the content is linearised? This is exactly the same as with CSS layout. If the answer is yes, worry about something else, such as headings, avoiding excessive spans and classes and ensuring you're using good markup instead, grouping links together in structural containers like UL or OL, and so on. To put it across as firmly as I can; CSS does not make a site more accessible. HTML does that. Use HTML well, tables or no tables, and you get an accessible web site. CSS is important for accessibility, but it is important because it encourages more thoughtful HTML construction, and discourages harmful practices; it offers nothing positive to access. (And don't think of mentioning aural style sheets, which are a terrible idea, adverse to users interests, and it's a mercy no popular screen reader supports them.) >Hopefully standards compliant browsers enter widespread mainstream use. I >see IE as the single biggest factor holding back developers using CSS. > I agree, though the single biggest factor at any given moment is the one that's blocking your path at that moment. Yesterday it was Safari and IE Mac. HTH Cheers Ian From rachell at kingestatewinery.com Wed Mar 16 11:17:58 2005 From: rachell at kingestatewinery.com (Rachell) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:17:58 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi All! I just finished coding this design (except for the links -- none of them work yet), and before implementing the design on all our pages, I want to make sure it's cross-browser/platform compatible. Could you guys please test it? It's at: http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/example.htm I'm mainly concerned that: 1) The sub-navs pop up when moused over (for those of you who hate MMN, I'm sorry, I tried having all subnavs visible, but it made the navigation look way too cluttered). 2) The 'g' from the logo that overlaps the design is aligned correctly with the logo. 3) The curve at the bottom of the navigation appears all in one piece and is not duplicated or disappears when the mouseovered elements appear. 4) None of the elements overlap (except for the 'g' mentioned above) 5) None of the elements are freakishly arrayed all over the place Thank you guys so much! Rachell Coe Webmaster King Estate Winery 541-942-9874 Ext: 136 http://www.kingestate.com From russ at unrealisticexpectations.com Wed Mar 16 11:35:37 2005 From: russ at unrealisticexpectations.com (russ at unrealisticexpectations.com) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:35:37 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Rapid IA Prototyping Message-ID: <20050316-09353787-d30@mail304> Hi Daniel, > (a) What do you use as a method for prototyping? Personally, I have to say this depends upon project type, budget, deadline and audience. I've used everything from Paper Prototypes (http://www.paperprototyping.com/) to HTML Wireframes to Flash-based wireframes (and nearly fully-functionaly UI prototypes, interactive site mapping and flows within Flash, as well). I'm sure that only helps with part of the dilemma, assuming it helps at all! Best, Russ From norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com Wed Mar 16 11:46:44 2005 From: norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com (Norman Bunn) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:46:44 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42387104.901@craftedsolutions.com> Looked at it in Firefox 1.1 and IE 6 on XP SP2. 1) Taste submenu is always open and there is a gap between the search nav and the media one. 2) The bottom of the "g" is cutoff in both browsers 3) I don't see a "curve at the bottom of the navigation" 4) no overlap observed 5) no freakish arrangements --- Norman W. Bunn norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com 803.405.1008 ---------------------------------------------- www.CraftedSolutions.com Crafted Solutions, Inc. Web Design & Development Web Site Hosting & Custom Solutions "Get the results the Internet promises; get the 'Net Result' from Crafted Solutions!" ---------------------------------------------- Rachell wrote: >Hi All! > >I just finished coding this design (except for the links -- none of them >work yet), and before implementing the design on all our pages, I want to >make sure it's cross-browser/platform compatible. Could you guys please >test it? It's at: http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/example.htm > >I'm mainly concerned that: >1) The sub-navs pop up when moused over (for those of you who hate MMN, I'm >sorry, I tried having all subnavs visible, but it made the navigation look >way too cluttered). >2) The 'g' from the logo that overlaps the design is aligned correctly with >the logo. >3) The curve at the bottom of the navigation appears all in one piece and is >not duplicated or disappears when the mouseovered elements appear. >4) None of the elements overlap (except for the 'g' mentioned above) >5) None of the elements are freakishly arrayed all over the place > >Thank you guys so much! > > >Rachell Coe >Webmaster >King Estate Winery >541-942-9874 Ext: 136 >http://www.kingestate.com > > > > From evolt_org at striderweb.com Wed Mar 16 11:46:49 2005 From: evolt_org at striderweb.com (Stephen Rider) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:46:49 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01dbc728240806ef35a5dc1f999d8d76@striderweb.com> On Mar 16, 2005, at 11:17 AM, Rachell wrote: > I want to make sure it's cross-browser/platform compatible. Could you > guys please > test it? It's at: http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/example.htm > > I'm mainly concerned that: Looks good on all counts in Safari 1.2.4 In FireFox 1.0 and Opera 7.5.4 (both Mac) it appears the background colors of the navigation are on top of and other graphics. (Text is visible, but the curves and bottom of the "G" are missing) Nice design if you can make it work. I like it visually. Steve From rob.smith at THERMON.com Wed Mar 16 11:55:22 2005 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:55:22 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D26E@smtmb.tmc.local> >Could you guys please test it? It's at: http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/example.htm Surf-Control Access Denied. Rob From rachell at kingestatewinery.com Wed Mar 16 11:55:28 2005 From: rachell at kingestatewinery.com (Rachell) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:55:28 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks Steve and Erik -- I moved the css with the background properties above the others -- does the background appear now? If not, is there another way to make it work using css? Rachell Coe Webmaster King Estate Winery 541-942-9874 Ext: 136 http://www.kingestate.com From fuzzylizard at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 11:58:21 2005 From: fuzzylizard at gmail.com (Chris Johnston) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:58:21 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:17:58 -0800, Rachell wrote: > Hi All! > > I just finished coding this design (except for the links -- none of them > work yet), and before implementing the design on all our pages, I want to > make sure it's cross-browser/platform compatible. Could you guys please > test it? It's at: http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/example.htm > > I'm mainly concerned that: > 1) The sub-navs pop up when moused over (for those of you who hate MMN, I'm > sorry, I tried having all subnavs visible, but it made the navigation look > way too cluttered). The squares look a little big, but they do appear when moused over > 2) The 'g' from the logo that overlaps the design is aligned correctly with > the logo. I see the g, but the bottom of it is hidden under the content area > 3) The curve at the bottom of the navigation appears all in one piece and is > not duplicated or disappears when the mouseovered elements appear. What curve? The navigation is just big blocks, no curves > 4) None of the elements overlap (except for the 'g' mentioned above) The last navigation block has something funky going on with it, not sure what it is though. Part of the submit button is covered up and there is a thin black line that runs down part of the left side of the block > 5) None of the elements are freakishly arrayed all over the place There is something very strange going on at the bottom of the photograph. Not sure if it is the photo or the design, but it should be removed. It is some kind of curvy thing. Could be the top of a fence, but I am not sure. I clicked on a few links and saw the old design. Personally I think it looks more interesting then the new one. The new one looks way to blocky. Hope that helps -- chris johnston www.fuzzylizard.com "For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals and something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination, we learned to talk." Pink Floyd From john at johnallsopp.co.uk Wed Mar 16 11:58:37 2005 From: john at johnallsopp.co.uk (john at johnallsopp.co.uk) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:58:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50070.82.195.105.60.1110995917.squirrel@82.195.105.60> Hi Rachell Using Firefox 1.0 over Red Hat 9, 1024/768 ish here: > It's at: http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/example.htm > > I'm mainly concerned that: > 1) The sub-navs pop up when moused over They do, but was it your intention that they line up with the main menu elements? They line up over the middle of the second letter here > 2) The 'g' from the logo that overlaps the design is aligned correctly > with the logo. I do miss these things sometimes, but I see no G > 3) The curve at the bottom of the navigation appears all in one piece > and is not duplicated or disappears when the mouseovered elements appear. Nor any curve. > 4) None of the elements overlap (except for the 'g' mentioned above) The 'go' button is misaligned .. oh no, it's the site map/contact/trade thing that's overlapping it by about five pixels or so. I'll send you a screenshot if I can find your email address .. if one doesn't follow and you'd like one, email me at john at johnallsopp .co .uk > 5) None of the elements are freakishly arrayed all over the place Now I'm completely freaked and it's your fault! J From rachell at kingestatewinery.com Wed Mar 16 12:24:55 2005 From: rachell at kingestatewinery.com (Rachell) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:24:55 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? -- fixed? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you guys for checking it so quickly! I made some changes to the CSS - does the curve now show up? Rachell Coe Webmaster King Estate Winery 541-942-9874 Ext: 136 http://www.kingestate.com From ipletikosic at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 12:34:04 2005 From: ipletikosic at gmail.com (Ivo P) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:34:04 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Are you designing with CSS and web standards? In-Reply-To: <42386657.8080803@zstudio.co.uk> References: <42386657.8080803@zstudio.co.uk> Message-ID: > I have tested table based designs against most > popular screen readers and we had significant user testing with blind, > visually impaired, dyslexic and mobility impaired users. Not one - not > ONE - problem was encountered in any testing owing to tables. I've found that a lot of the complexity of tables, even for many horrid table based layouts, is handled quite well by screen readers and accessibility tools rather than because of careful table designs. In my own testing I found that users that know their way around with a screen reader could truly harness their potential to navigate even the most difficult sites. A compliment really towards the accessibility tool rather than the site design. When it comes to site designs I favor CSS over tables, in concept at least since in practice there are additional considerations that prevent me from dropping tables completely. I found novice screen reader users, such as students starting out with computers, find navigating tables challenging until with repeated use (and a lot of frustration) they can configure screen readers in a manner they can successfully use them. Even after they reached this comfort zone with the accessibility tool it was apparent that a large part of the site fell outside of their experience because it fell beyond this developed comfort zone. Further testing to bring these unexplored areas into the comfort zone of the majority of blind users eventually drove me into pure CSS design, where the site was presented in extremely linear fashion when experienced thru accessibility tools but still taking advantage of tested design concepts for the visual population. So basically, using pure CSS was making the accessibility tools capabilities to navigate complex sites unnecessary. A very good thing I think since these tools can cost range in the hundreds of dollars & can be very challenging to learn all their tricks. So in effect the entry barrier to experience web content & apps is lowered by use of CSS for layouts. Anyways, my two cents. On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 17:01:11 +0000, Ian Anderson wrote: > Pringle, Ron wrote: > > >For some of us, CSS isn't an option, its the rule. Part of my job > >description includes coding to current web standards (HTML 4/CSS 2), and > >accessibility is one of the primary goals. > > > > > Brilliant - pleased to hear it! You must have a very satisfying job. > > >... > > > >Yes, I could have done the design in tables and it probably would have taken > >less time to develop, but it would also be much less accessible. > > > > > I'm sorry to be contrary, but "much less accessible"? I have to > challenge that. > > [caution - accessibility rant follows] > > I have been specialising in web accessibility for a couple of years now, > including nearly a year consulting with a major UK bank on their > accessibility projects. I have tested table based designs against most > popular screen readers and we had significant user testing with blind, > visually impaired, dyslexic and mobility impaired users. Not one - not > ONE - problem was encountered in any testing owing to tables. Of course, > we designed the tables so there wouldn't be, but all the same... > > The site in question was a hybrid design - simple tables with lots of > CSS, but we had up to three or four levels of nesting in some complex > areas. Not a peep from the screen reader users; they reported it to be a > very accessible site. The problems they had were with higher level > issues such as the phrasing of instructions, and so on. > > Of course a site is more accessible with CSS-only layouts; PDA users > appreciate them, I believe. But to throw statements like "much less > accessible" around is not accurate. It's very much a marginal issue, in > my judgement. CSS layouts are only *slightly* more accessible than good > table layouts. Bad table layouts; well, there's no difference between a > bad table layout and a bad CSS layout; clearly both are undesirable. > Yes, you can have CSS-only layouts that have bad accessibility problems. > > Making too much about tables and accessibility somewhat ignores the fact > that users with disabilities have adapted to the way the web is now > (essentially table-based) and so have their assistive technologies. > Tables don't give current users any really big problems; if they did, > users would ditch their assistive technology for one that could cope. > Accessibility tools and the people who use them are pragmatic; people > have lives to get on with, and they use the web enthusiastically. There > are things that are extremely serious barriers to users with > disabilities on the web, but tables generally aren't amongst those things. > > If the content in the table doesn't make sense read in source order, > that's an accessibility issue. If the content in a css layout doesn't > make sense read in source order, that's an accessibilty issue too. > > If you have a huge list of links before your content, that's an > accessibility issue - but it's an issue with having too many links, not > how they are positioned. You need to provide a skip link, whether the > design uses CSS or tables. The main problem with lots of links is for > mobility impaired users; tables or CSS positioning is entirely > irrelevant to them. They need a skip link and that's all there is to it. > > Excessive nesting *is* annoying to some screen reader users - but it > isn't a huge access barrier. > > Hybrid designs, which tend to avoid nesting with very simple layout > tables and CSS, are *highly* accessible. > > The most important issue with tables is does the page make sense when > the content is linearised? This is exactly the same as with CSS layout. > If the answer is yes, worry about something else, such as headings, > avoiding excessive spans and classes and ensuring you're using good > markup instead, grouping links together in structural containers like UL > or OL, and so on. > > To put it across as firmly as I can; CSS does not make a site more > accessible. HTML does that. Use HTML well, tables or no tables, and you > get an accessible web site. CSS is important for accessibility, but it > is important because it encourages more thoughtful HTML construction, > and discourages harmful practices; it offers nothing positive to access. > > (And don't think of mentioning aural style sheets, which are a terrible > idea, adverse to users interests, and it's a mercy no popular screen > reader supports them.) > > >Hopefully standards compliant browsers enter widespread mainstream use. I > >see IE as the single biggest factor holding back developers using CSS. > > > I agree, though the single biggest factor at any given moment is the one > that's blocking your path at that moment. Yesterday it was Safari and IE > Mac. > > HTH > > Cheers > > Ian > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From collin at strombergarchitectural.com Wed Mar 16 12:40:23 2005 From: collin at strombergarchitectural.com (Collin Davis) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:40:23 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Opera 7.54u1 on Windows vs. Firefox 1.0.1 vs. IE 6: 1. the subnavs are visible, however there's an odd sort of "jigsaw puzzle" sort of effect going on 2. the "g" in the logo is slightly askew as compared to firefox and IE 3. curve is fine in all three browsers 4. the search area is odd - in all three browsers there is a sort of extra button in the top right corner - very pronounced in firefox, somewhat in opera, barely in IE. Also the search field is very close to the bottom of the "trade" link 5. everything looks as it should be as far as array Hope this helps Collin Davis Web Architect Stromberg Architectural Products 903.454.0904 e collin at strombergarchitectural.com w http://www.strombergarchitectural.com -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Rachell Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 11:18 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? Hi All! I just finished coding this design (except for the links -- none of them work yet), and before implementing the design on all our pages, I want to make sure it's cross-browser/platform compatible. Could you guys please test it? It's at: http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/example.htm I'm mainly concerned that: 1) The sub-navs pop up when moused over (for those of you who hate MMN, I'm sorry, I tried having all subnavs visible, but it made the navigation look way too cluttered). 2) The 'g' from the logo that overlaps the design is aligned correctly with the logo. 3) The curve at the bottom of the navigation appears all in one piece and is not duplicated or disappears when the mouseovered elements appear. 4) None of the elements overlap (except for the 'g' mentioned above) 5) None of the elements are freakishly arrayed all over the place Thank you guys so much! Rachell Coe Webmaster King Estate Winery 541-942-9874 Ext: 136 http://www.kingestate.com -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From fuzzylizard at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 12:42:40 2005 From: fuzzylizard at gmail.com (Chris Johnston) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:42:40 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? -- fixed? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:24:55 -0800, Rachell wrote: > Thank you guys for checking it so quickly! I made some changes to the CSS - > does the curve now show up? > Firefox 1.0.1/windows XP SP2 The curve and the G now show up. However, the submit button is still partially covered. The options in the nav blocks are all bunched up together. The blocks have so much space in them and you are not using any of it. Spread the options out vertically and put more space between the main option and the sub options. It looks like the sub options are literaly sitting on top of the main option. The partically covered text box is because the sub-options are sitting too low in the nav blocks. You still have a funky curve thing going on at the bottom of the photo. -- chris johnston www.fuzzylizard.com "For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals and something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination, we learned to talk." Pink Floyd From ipletikosic at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 12:44:34 2005 From: ipletikosic at gmail.com (Ivo P) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:44:34 -0800 Subject: [thelist] VeriSign payflow updates - anyone else dealing with this? Message-ID: Today was the day that VeriSign switched their Payflow link service to different servers with different technology. Has anyone evaluated this change and knows what it involves? I thought no additional evaluation of the service would be necessary after their update but it is apparent the service has changed. Or at least the user experience. My branding that the VeriSign payflow site used is gone, no idea how to get it back up again. The whole look-n-feel is different. The error messages presented to users in case of problems are quite sparse (such as 'Data Entry Error') . These are two initial impressions, seems I might have to reevaluate the service to see if I should stick with it. I am a bit concerned since the material VeriSign sent out only mentioned switching servers for the service, I assumed everything else would stay the same. I havent heard back from VeriSign reps and cant find any fuller desciption of upgrades/modifications to the service other than switching servers. From norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com Wed Mar 16 12:47:30 2005 From: norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com (Norman Bunn) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:47:30 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? -- fixed? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42387F42.8070600@craftedsolutions.com> yes --- Norman W. Bunn norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com 803.405.1008 ---------------------------------------------- www.CraftedSolutions.com Crafted Solutions, Inc. Web Design & Development Web Site Hosting & Custom Solutions "Get the results the Internet promises; get the 'Net Result' from Crafted Solutions!" ---------------------------------------------- Rachell wrote: >Thank you guys for checking it so quickly! I made some changes to the CSS - >does the curve now show up? > >Rachell Coe >Webmaster >King Estate Winery >541-942-9874 Ext: 136 >http://www.kingestate.com > > > > From dudrenov at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 12:41:17 2005 From: dudrenov at gmail.com (Pavel Dudrenov) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:41:17 -0800 Subject: [thelist] yahoo 360?!?!? Message-ID: <10c3e4e005031610412430e79c@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I wonder if any of you can help me. I just saw an article about some yahoo product: http://news.com.com/Yahoo+360+takes..._3-5619309.html Yahoo 360 degree blogosphere. Apparently they are beta testing right now and it's invite only. I really want to check it out. Anybody know of someone in it? Does it work like gmail invites? Can anybody send me an invite please? Thanks in advance, Pavel From ron.luther at hp.com Wed Mar 16 12:53:03 2005 From: ron.luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:53:03 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060861BD4B@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> Rachell Coe asked: >>Could you guys please test it? It's at: >>http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/example.htm Hi Rachell, Looks mostly good IE5.5 on winbox. (I see the curve. Pretty nice.) ;-) Possible items to check on: * Popup navigation above the "Taste" menu is always expanded - never disappears. * Same for the popup above the search box. * Some of the submenu items are "too long" and don't fully appear: - "Merchand" in the 'Shop' menu - "Newslette" in the 'Enjoy' menu * Noticeable gap between "The Estate" and "Gardens" where it spans the two columns. Misc: +1! - I like the nice 'grape' photo on the domaine page. -1! - Only ship to "parts of Texas"? ... Booger! (My part I hope.) HTH, RonL. [Is spelling "Domaine" with a trailing 'e' an Oregon thing - or a winery thing?] From Mark.Joslyn at SolimarSystems.com Wed Mar 16 12:53:55 2005 From: Mark.Joslyn at SolimarSystems.com (Mark Joslyn) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:53:55 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? In-Reply-To: <42387104.901@craftedsolutions.com> Message-ID: <00cd01c52a59$81538ec0$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com> IE6 The GO button is chopped at the top. nice design. mj -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces-mark.joslyn=solimarsystems.com at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces-mark.joslyn=solimarsystems.com at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Norman Bunn Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 9:47 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Please test my page? Looked at it in Firefox 1.1 and IE 6 on XP SP2. 1) Taste submenu is always open and there is a gap between the search nav and the media one. 2) The bottom of the "g" is cutoff in both browsers 3) I don't see a "curve at the bottom of the navigation" 4) no overlap observed 5) no freakish arrangements --- Norman W. Bunn norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com 803.405.1008 ---------------------------------------------- www.CraftedSolutions.com Crafted Solutions, Inc. Web Design & Development Web Site Hosting & Custom Solutions "Get the results the Internet promises; get the 'Net Result' from Crafted Solutions!" ---------------------------------------------- Rachell wrote: >Hi All! > >I just finished coding this design (except for the links -- none of >them work yet), and before implementing the design on all our pages, I >want to make sure it's cross-browser/platform compatible. Could you >guys please test it? It's at: >http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/example.htm > >I'm mainly concerned that: >1) The sub-navs pop up when moused over (for those of you who hate MMN, >I'm sorry, I tried having all subnavs visible, but it made the >navigation look way too cluttered). >2) The 'g' from the logo that overlaps the design is aligned correctly >with the logo. >3) The curve at the bottom of the navigation appears all in one piece >and is not duplicated or disappears when the mouseovered elements >appear. >4) None of the elements overlap (except for the 'g' mentioned above) >5) None of the elements are freakishly arrayed all over the place > >Thank you guys so much! > > >Rachell Coe >Webmaster >King Estate Winery >541-942-9874 Ext: 136 >http://www.kingestate.com > > > > -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From casey at thecrookstons.com Wed Mar 16 12:59:09 2005 From: casey at thecrookstons.com (Casey Crookston) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:59:09 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Formating connection string Message-ID: <001201c52a5a$3cb930c0$6501a8c0@Papabear> In my asp.net file, I need to connect to an SQL database that is not on the same machine as the site. The network path is enterprise\ClientDatabase where 'Enterprise' is the name of the server (the host has a few Trekies working for them) and 'ClientDatabase' is the name of the SQL database. Would I be correct in assuming that this would be a valid connection string: Dim JBO as SQLConnection JBO = New SQLConnection(Server=enterprise;UID=****;PWD=****;database=ClientDatabase") Thanks, Casey From ebone+thelist at dotsandloops.net Wed Mar 16 13:00:49 2005 From: ebone+thelist at dotsandloops.net (e-head) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:00:49 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Odd CSS selection loophole ... Message-ID: <20050316190049.GU1175@DotsAndLoops.net> I think I found a weird "selection" loophole in css. Logically, I need "all *anchor* tags that have a *img* tag as a child" ... i.e. I need to apply styles to *a* tags with this nesting structure. nothing works ... and i would think it would be fairly common. it seems this is a case where child selectors, sibling selectors, attribute selectors .... nothing works. via css .... one can select only tags "with certain parents" ... but not only tags "having certain children" it would seem. From jdillon at boehm-ritter.com Wed Mar 16 13:21:13 2005 From: jdillon at boehm-ritter.com (Jonathan Dillon) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:21:13 -0800 Subject: [thelist] yahoo 360?!?!? In-Reply-To: <10c3e4e005031610412430e79c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050316192951.72BEA5190EC@mx1.nexiderm.com> > I wonder if any of you can help me. I just saw an article about some yahoo product: > http://news.com.com/Yahoo+360+takes..._3-5619309.html > > Yahoo 360 degree blogosphere. Apparently they are beta testing right now and it's invite only. I really want to > check it out. Anybody know of someone in it? Does it work like gmail invites? Can anybody send me an invite please? In order to get in, you have to know a charter member who can sponsor you in. Before you ask, I cannot. Jonathan From judah at wiredotter.com Wed Mar 16 13:16:25 2005 From: judah at wiredotter.com (Judah McAuley) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:16:25 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? Message-ID: <42388609.2090309@wiredotter.com> Collin Davis wrote: > 4. the search area is odd - in all three browsers there is a sort of extra > button in the top right corner - very pronounced in firefox, somewhat in > opera, barely in IE. Also the search field is very close to the bottom of > the "trade" link I'm seeing this too. I've got Firefox 1.0.1 under Linux and the the button labeled "Go" has a bit on the far right edge that pushes up above the top line of the rest of the button. It gets wider and more pronounced at larger font sizes. I can send you a screen shot offlist if you like Rachel. And thought it doesn't have anything to do with visual style, you might consider rearranging your html. The actual content of the page is the very last part of the html. If you move it to the begining of the html you are likely to do better in search engines as I understand it. Judah who loves King Estate wines and wouldn't mind doing free-lance consulting in exchange for vintage Pinot Noir ;-) From mwarden at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 13:30:18 2005 From: mwarden at gmail.com (Matt Warden) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:30:18 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Formating connection string In-Reply-To: <001201c52a5a$3cb930c0$6501a8c0@Papabear> References: <001201c52a5a$3cb930c0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:59:09 -0600, Casey Crookston wrote: > In my asp.net file, I need to connect to an SQL database that is not on the > same machine as the site. The network path is enterprise\ClientDatabase > where 'Enterprise' is the name of the server (the host has a few Trekies > working for them) and 'ClientDatabase' is the name of the SQL database. > Would I be correct in assuming that this would be a valid connection string: > > Dim JBO as SQLConnection > JBO = New > SQLConnection(Server=enterprise;UID=****;PWD=****;database=ClientDatabase") > I believe it depends on what kind of connection you are using (DNS-less?). Maybe this will help you: http://www.google.com/search?&q=remote%20sql%20server%20database%20connection%20string%20asp -- Matt Warden Miami University Oxford, OH, USA http://mattwarden.com This email proudly and graciously contributes to entropy. From dudrenov at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 13:59:16 2005 From: dudrenov at gmail.com (Pavel Dudrenov) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:59:16 -0800 Subject: [thelist] yahoo 360?!?!? In-Reply-To: <20050316192951.72BEA5190EC@mx1.nexiderm.com> References: <10c3e4e005031610412430e79c@mail.gmail.com> <20050316192951.72BEA5190EC@mx1.nexiderm.com> Message-ID: <10c3e4e0050316115986ccc4b@mail.gmail.com> That sucks I really wanted to see what they are doing. Sounded really interesting. On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:21:13 -0800, Jonathan Dillon wrote: > > I wonder if any of you can help me. I just saw an article about some yahoo > product: > > http://news.com.com/Yahoo+360+takes..._3-5619309.html > > > > Yahoo 360 degree blogosphere. Apparently they are beta testing right now > and it's invite only. I really want to > check it out. Anybody know of > someone in it? Does it work like gmail invites? Can anybody send me an > invite please? > > In order to get in, you have to know a charter member who can sponsor you > in. Before you ask, I cannot. > > Jonathan > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From evolt at kasimir-k.fi Wed Mar 16 13:56:22 2005 From: evolt at kasimir-k.fi (Kasimir K) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:56:22 +0000 Subject: [thelist] tip: keyboard remap for spanish coders Message-ID: <42388F66.50504@kasimir-k.fi> On a normal Spanish keyboard the characters [, ], { and } are the rightmost keys on top and home rows, but accessed with the right alt key. This is very painful one hand finger stretch if you write a lot of code. Characters |, @ and # are on top of 1, 2 and 3, and accessed also with the right alt, which means uncomfortable two hand combination. Download a keyboard remapping tool [0][1], and swap your right alt and caps lock (which is almost never used) keys: now you can type [, ], {, and } with very comfortable two hand combination. |, @ and # are managed with one hand, but without painful stretches. [0] keytweak from: http://webpages.charter.net/krumsick/ [1] Remapkey.exe (part or win 2003 server res kit, runs on xp too): http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=9d467a69-57ff-4ae7-96ee-b18c4790cffd&displaylang=en .k From muraii at yahoo.com Wed Mar 16 14:41:35 2005 From: muraii at yahoo.com (Daniel LeVangie-Stricklen) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:41:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [thelist] re: Rapid IA Prototyping Message-ID: <20050316204135.67572.qmail@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> Personally, I have to say this depends upon project type, budget, deadline and audience. I've used everything from Paper Prototypes (http://www.paperprototyping.com/) to HTML Wireframes to Flash-based wireframes (and nearly fully-functionaly UI prototypes, interactive site mapping and flows within Flash, as well). I'm sure that only helps with part of the dilemma, assuming it helps at all It does help, in that there isn't any one whiz-bang solution I'm overlooking, which would tend to mean big money. What I think I'd like to do is open Illustrator (or maybe even something lower-end, so I'm not tempted with a bunch of bells and whistles), and put together a bunch of generic interface widgets. Then, I can copy and paste, move 'em around, align them, and all fairly quickly. I'm tempted to just use Excel, given that that's where most of our stuff will reside for at least the next year, and given that by and large layout in Excel is really heavily restricted to rows and columns (excepting user forms); but it's so cumbersome to do I'd rather not. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From escalonab at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 14:50:27 2005 From: escalonab at gmail.com (Bernardo Escalona) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:50:27 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? In-Reply-To: <423881d9.67bd14d2.121f.ffff8668SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> References: <423881d9.67bd14d2.121f.ffff8668SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> Message-ID: <12d1e091050316125015e54c21@mail.gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:17:58 -0800 > From: "Rachell" > To: > Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? On Firefox 1.0 / Win XP SP1 it looks ok, with a few issues. I took a screenshoot: http://www.bernsonline.com/img_misc/screen1.jpg > 1) The sub-navs pop up when moused over (for those of you who hate MMN, = > I'm > sorry, I tried having all subnavs visible, but it made the navigation = > look > way too cluttered). They activate and de-activate nicely, but the first one (taste) is always activated > 2) The 'g' from the logo that overlaps the design is aligned correctly = > with > the logo. G looks good, with or without the 'home' button activated > 3) The curve at the bottom of the navigation appears all in one piece = > and is > not duplicated or disappears when the mouseovered elements appear. The curve looks good, but the one at the bottom of the picture looks kinda cut off or something... could look better. > 4) None of the elements overlap (except for the 'g' mentioned above) The 'trade' button on the right overlaps some of the search input and button. > 5) None of the elements are freakishly arrayed all over the place No freakiness. -- ___________________________________________ Bernardo Escalona Espinosa tel: 56 22 85 23 cel: 55 18 56 74 73 http://www.bernsonline.com/ From scott at netalytical.com Wed Mar 16 15:04:08 2005 From: scott at netalytical.com (Scott Wolpow) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 16:04:08 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Simple page editor In-Reply-To: <10c3e4e0050316115986ccc4b@mail.gmail.com> References: <10c3e4e005031610412430e79c@mail.gmail.com> <20050316192951.72BEA5190EC@mx1.nexiderm.com> <10c3e4e0050316115986ccc4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050316160052.02b67a08@n4277491.securesites.net> I am looking for a simple script (PHP preferred) that will change a single page on a site. The site is for a restaurant. They want to post the special of the day each say. No database is needed. I just want to edit one area in a page. I have looked at portal, blogger etc scripts but looking for a simpler solution. Thank You Scott Wolpow techtoolbag.com From rachell at kingestatewinery.com Wed Mar 16 15:05:59 2005 From: rachell at kingestatewinery.com (Rachell) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:05:59 -0800 Subject: [thelist]
vs
  • for Pull-Down Menus & Opera In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Using CSS, I've coded 2 pages for pull down menus -- one using
    tags (http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/Domaine/Estate/Gardens.htm)and the other using
  • (http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/example.htm - which is one you guys recently tested) Using www.browsercam.com/ it seems the page using
    shows up correctly in Opera -- while the
  • doesn't (the mouseovers don't work and the subnav shows up below the navigation, or doesn't show up at all). Is Opera such a minor player problems like this can be ignored? And if not, why are most pull-down menus coded using
  • instead of
    ? Are there problems using
    's like this? Rachell Coe Webmaster King Estate Winery 541-942-9874 Ext: 136 http://www.kingestate.com From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Wed Mar 16 15:16:23 2005 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:16:23 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Simple page editor Message-ID: [snip] I am looking for a simple script (PHP preferred) that will change a single page on a site. The site is for a restaurant. They want to post the special of the day each say. No database is needed. I just want to edit one area in a page. I have looked at portal, blogger etc scripts but looking for a simpler solution. [/snip] Any good PHP tutorial will show you this.... From lists at onlinetools.org Wed Mar 16 16:05:59 2005 From: lists at onlinetools.org (Christian Heilmann) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:05:59 +0000 Subject: [thelist]
    vs
  • for Pull-Down Menus & Opera In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4238ADC7.5040208@onlinetools.org> Rachell wrote: >Using CSS, I've coded 2 pages for pull down menus -- one using
    tags >(http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/Domaine/Estate/Gardens.htm)and the >other using
  • (http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/example.htm - which is >one you guys recently tested) > >Using www.browsercam.com/ it seems the page using
    shows up correctly >in Opera -- while the
  • doesn't (the mouseovers don't work and the subnav >shows up below the navigation, or doesn't show up at all). > >Is Opera such a minor player problems like this can be ignored? And if not, >why are most pull-down menus coded using
  • instead of
    ? Are there >problems using
    's like this? > > > A navigation marked up as a list also has semantic value - a list groups elements together and gives them a meaning. A bunch of divs simply represent page divisions, and don't have any semantic meaning whatsoever. Without style sheets, a UL navigation still represents an entity, a list with divs not. No browser should stop us from using the right element for the job. From daryl at browncowmedia.com.au Wed Mar 16 15:43:23 2005 From: daryl at browncowmedia.com.au (Daryl Brown) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:43:23 +1100 Subject: [thelist] Newbie alert - streaming Flash video Q?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi guys - hope you can help, I've been given this code by my Flash streaming provider, who also provide the 'skin' for the player. It works fine in Explorer on a PC, but doesn't seem to work in Safari or Explorer on a Mac, ie I only hear the sound, but don't see the pictures. I need this to work on a Mac as well as a PC - that's part of the beauty of Flash after all(?) Could anyone point in the right direction to solving this? I am imagining by the code in the middle that I should be able to write something for other browsers - but I haven't got a clue where to get this information. Any pointers would be gratefully accepted. Hope it's ok putting this code up here. No doubt I'll hear if it's not... thanks Daryl Brown Brown Cow Media Sydney Australia www.browncowmedia.com.au
    • Sample 243 244
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    387 393 394 395 --- "Peter Brunone (EasyListBox.com)" wrote: > > ???You're going to need to show the whole file.? It > looks like you've got another statement?(maybe a > while loop?)?further up the page that the parser > expects to be closed. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From evoltlist at delime.com Mon Mar 14 13:36:37 2005 From: evoltlist at delime.com (M. Seyon) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:36:37 -0400 Subject: [thelist] DIVs with height not expanding vertically In-Reply-To: <42355EE8.4060800@zstudio.co.uk> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20050314153210.02307eb0@mx.delime.com> Message from Ian Anderson (3/14/2005 05:52 AM) >Greetings all - lovely morning here in the UK > >Wondered if anyone could offer any guidance with this; DIVs not expanding >vertically as the content grows if they have their height set through CSS. > >I am creating areas containing company details, enclosed in a DIV tag like >this; > >
    >

    Company Name

    >

    Address 1

    >

    Address 2

    >

    County

    >

    Postcode

    >

    Phone

    >

    Email

    >

    Web address

    >
    > >I'm sure you know the sort of thing. Not all companies (records in DB) >have all fields. Most have very few, and the information is displayed >closed-up so there are no annoying gaps. All good so far. > >For design reasons, the DIV has a fixed height and a coloured background. >Again, for design reasons and efficient use of space, the height is set to >a sort of average amount. Most entries have space at the bottom of the div >and it looks nice. > >Should there be *more* entries than the height allows, in IE6 for Windows >the DIV is shown to expand vertically to accomodate them. BUT in Firefox >and Safari, the box remains the specified size, and the content overflows >down into the surrounding area.This also happens when the text size is >increased in the browser in any fixed height DIV on the page. > >I was astonished to read (forget where) that the IE behaviour is wrong >here, and that Firefox and Safari are behaving to spec. > >Can anyone verify that this behaviour is as intended? I'm astonished that you're astonished. That's the way it works for width, why should it be any different for height. Anyways Gunlaug answered all the important stuff. But have you also considered using overflow: auto? This will maintain the div dimensions, but place a vertical (and/or horizontal) scroll bar where necessary. regards. -marc PS really, those useless tips are quite uncalled for. If you know they're not going to be of use to anyone at least hack the tip tag, like for example so that it doesn't get archived by the tip harvester. -- Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com http://www.playyuhself.com/ From evoltlist at delime.com Mon Mar 14 13:48:48 2005 From: evoltlist at delime.com (M. Seyon) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:48:48 -0400 Subject: [thelist] A Question of Relative Paths In-Reply-To: <004e01c528b2$87630370$6501a8c0@Papabear> References: <002d01c528ad$cd0669d0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20050314154644.021eee90@mx.delime.com> Message from Casey Crookston (3/14/2005 12:26 PM) >----- Original Message ----- >From: "VOLKAN ?????Z?????EL????K" > > > > Use base tag. > > > >Okay, but how does this resolve on a local development server? It may involve just a bit of effort on your part. Store the base path in a variable. On the dev server set it to inetpub/wwwroot/fubar_client When you publish change it to www.example.com/ regards. -marc -- Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com http://www.playyuhself.com/ From RPringle at aurora-il.org Mon Mar 14 14:14:15 2005 From: RPringle at aurora-il.org (Pringle, Ron) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:14:15 -0600 Subject: [thelist] replacing CRLFs in Memo fields Message-ID: Ok, two more related questions. I've googled around for this and haven't come across anything. (any links would be appreciated). In my Access 2000 DB I have a memo field that will be taking input from a web form. The people using the form will most likely be cutting and pasting text from MS Word docs. That memo field will in turn be displayed on the web. I want to preserve the paragraph formatting of the original text. 1. How do I go about finding and replacing the CLRFs that are inserted in the form field with

    tags? 2. Assuming there is legacy info in the Memo fields that wasn't converted as above, how do I format the output the memo field with CRLFs in itback to a webpage with proper paragraph formatting? Pointers to online info that covers this sort of thing would be appreciated as well. Ron From casey at thecrookstons.com Mon Mar 14 15:03:40 2005 From: casey at thecrookstons.com (Casey Crookston) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:03:40 -0600 Subject: [thelist] redirect from within web.config? Message-ID: <007501c528d9$4cbc99d0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Is it possible to redirect a user to another directory from within the web.config file when no error has been presented? From bj at kickasswebdesign.com Mon Mar 14 16:29:53 2005 From: bj at kickasswebdesign.com (BJ) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:29:53 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Safari and cursive fonts Message-ID: <42361061.3090207@kickasswebdesign.com> "Is there any reason why Safari won't display cursive fonts for me?" I may be WAY off base, but I had a maddeningly similar problem with "a" colors showing as "a visited" in IE on win when displaying locally (which I didn't realize was an issue for about a half a day as I banged my head against it!) but only if it was a "fake link" with "#" instead of an url, like you use for testing. Once I uploaded the page and server tested it the color problem went away. I'd test your code on a server if you haven't done so yet. If the problem isn't there, then you know it's something to do with how safari reads local files, and nothing you did wrong *grin* From Ed at ComSimplicity.com Mon Mar 14 19:29:36 2005 From: Ed at ComSimplicity.com (Ed McCarroll) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:29:36 -0800 Subject: [thelist] IIS returns 404 if .ASP page contains VBScript In-Reply-To: <42352821.1070806@meidomus.com> Message-ID: <000001c528fe$7598ce80$6401a8c0@ed> > you don't happen to have encryption or > compression enabled on the drive where the files are? No. My life is complicated enough! ;-) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ed McCarroll http://www.ComSimplicity.com (310) 838-4330 PO Box 654, Culver City, CA 90232 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From technique at oceanicsky.com Mon Mar 14 18:37:32 2005 From: technique at oceanicsky.com (David Siedband) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:37:32 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Safari and cursive fonts In-Reply-To: <4235CB79.5060509@dsl.pipex.com> References: <423463E3.4020207@dsl.pipex.com> <4235CB79.5060509@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <8240ec005258b8757adc36935140c454@oceanicsky.com> What's happening here is that Safari is assuming a font-weight:bold; directive because you are applying these styles to headings. These fonts don't have bold suits so they are degrading to the Safari's default style sheet. You can work around this by specifying font-weight:normal; e.g. h2 { font-family: Zapfino, cursive; font-weight: normal; } cheers -- David Siedband http://generation-xml.com On Mar 14, 2005, at 9:35 AM, Emily Tarrant wrote: > Erik Heerlein wrote: > >>> Is there any reason why Safari won't display cursive fonts for me? >> >> >> You may want to check out >> http://www.codestyle.org/css/font-family/sampler-Mac.shtml >> >> and see if some of those cursive fonts show up in your Safari. If >> they do, then I would say the problem lies in your code somewhere. >> Brush Script MT, Apple Chancery and Comic Sans show up in my Safari. >> Do you have a page online where other mac users can look and see if >> the fonts you specified show up? > > Erik, thank you for your response. I've looked at the codestyle page > and Safari does display the cursive fonts ok. So, I must be doing > something wrong... I've put up a very simple test page: > > http://www.webfooteddesigns.co.uk/test/test.html (The css is included > in the page.) > > When I look at it in Firefox I see the correct fonts, but in Safari I > just see the same sans-serif font for all three headings. > > I'd be very grateful if you could look at it and tell me what you > think. > > Best wishes > Emily > From robert at pennyonthesidewalk.com Mon Mar 14 18:20:06 2005 From: robert at pennyonthesidewalk.com (Robert Gormley) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:20:06 +1100 Subject: [thelist] Annoyingly erratic IE issue (xpost from css-d) Message-ID: <42362A36.2030702@pennyonthesidewalk.com> (apologies to those who have got this at css-d, too) Hi all, I have a client who is being maddened by this issue - they are using IE5.5, but I have seen it on the very latest version of 6.0: http://www.wyndham.vic.gov.au/leisure/arts Or indeed any content page with images: http://www.wyndham.vic.gov.au/council/councillors/1939/ross http://www.wyndham.vic.gov.au/community/aged/210 Where, occasionally, the image will overlap the text, and right itself after the completion of rendering, or a 'while' after that - sometimes thirty seconds later, with no real stimulus. Presumably it's a float issue? Though I can't see anything on PIE that comes close. Any ideas would be gratefully appreciated. Robert From ian at zstudio.co.uk Mon Mar 14 19:33:33 2005 From: ian at zstudio.co.uk (Ian Anderson) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 01:33:33 +0000 Subject: [thelist] DIVs with height not expanding vertically In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20050314153210.02307eb0@mx.delime.com> References: <4.2.0.58.20050314153210.02307eb0@mx.delime.com> Message-ID: <42363B6D.1060204@zstudio.co.uk> M. Seyon wrote: >> I was astonished to read (forget where) that the IE behaviour is >> wrong here, and that Firefox and Safari are behaving to spec. >> >> Can anyone verify that this behaviour is as intended? > > > I'm astonished that you're astonished. That's the way it works for > width, why should it be any different for height. > And I'm astonished you're ast... never mind. I don't think that the way width works is entirely comparable, actually - they seem quite different in this situation. Content in a fixed width container doesn't expand beyond the bounds of the container, it wraps. Height is subordinate to width when the content can wrap. The model seems completely wrong-headed though; almost surreal. What earthly use is the behaviour of height as spec'd, then? Is it intended to be used only in conjunction with scrolling? Without scrolling the fixed height container (which is not default behaviour), the behaviour of height in CSS seems completely useless for design. I suppose you could argue that setting height without understanding the accompanying properties that may also need to be set is asking for trouble, like playing with switches in a 747 cockpit. However, my view is that the terminology is needlessly confusing and CSS is badly designed here. I'm a professional; I understand the CSS model better than most web designers out in the world - and I am still getting caught out by applying assumptions from the rest of the world to CSS that turn out to be misleading, as if I was a novice. I am not a novice (I am a dumbass sometimes, but I am not new to this stuff). Surely, what most designers would mean by "height" is what CSS calls "min-height", and the behaviour of "height" in CSS is what could more reasonably be called "abs-height"? It is like the design of the box model itself; this ludicrous idea that it is helpful to define width of objects using internal dimension rather than external; completely counterintuitive and inconsistent with everything else we learn from our earliest years. It has practical limitations too compared with describing outer dimension. Consider a DIV of 70% width with 1px borders - how much space is left? Not 30%; it can't be calculated in fact. In my humble opinion the CSS box model is essentially broken. You know, I'm beginning to wonder if unquestioning adherence to W3 web standards is entirely healthy. CSS was clearly designed by a committee in the same way that a camel is a horse designed by committee. It suffers from lack of market testing. Where was the competition? What were the alternatives? Did I get a vote? It's like you held an election with one serious candidate and one clown. (Yes yes, I know, we do it that way in the UK too, as it happens...) Would CSS be the way it is if there had been a competing model with a more intuitive framework? Yes, I am simply wingeing now and wasting your time so I shall end. Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, and thanks for your patience and helpful responses. > Anyways Gunlaug answered all the important stuff. I want to hire him. Or his cows. > PS really, those useless tips are quite uncalled for. You are quite right, and I apologise. Although, I don't think that was a *completely* useless tip... For highly accessible popup links, I find these just dandy; (shown without a user-defined popup function for reasons of clarity) Using this.href means you only have to enter the destination URL once - where it belongs, making typos less of an issue and testing much easier. Alerting the user to the new window with a title attribute is courteous and satifies accessibility requirements to notify the user, to some extent, although please bear in mind that most popular screen readers currently don't read title attributes by default. Using onclick works in screen readers and with the keyboard; no need to add onkeypress or other obscure event handlers here. From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Mon Mar 14 19:45:41 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:45:41 +1100 Subject: [thelist] IIS returns 404 if .ASP page contains VBScript Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF2CD@kjserver1.kjhome.local> Just a FYI: The "/scripts" folder acts like a /cgi-bin folder that other webservers use. You do not need to place .asp files there. Cheers Ken : -----Original Message----- : From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist- : bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Ed McCarroll : Subject: RE: [thelist] IIS returns 404 if .ASP page contains VBScript : : Ken, : : > So, are you saying now that ASP files are still 404 if they : > contain VBScript, but if they only contain HTML (and have a : > .asp extension) you can access them using your browser? : : It turns out that IIS had my "localhost/scripts" folder in my default we : site : mapped to the wrong address on my C: drive. I have no idea... : : Thanks for your help. Your questions did point me down the right path. : : - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - : Ed McCarroll http://www.ComSimplicity.com : (310) 838-4330 PO Box 654, Culver City, CA 90232 From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Mon Mar 14 19:48:01 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:48:01 +1100 Subject: [thelist] redirect from within web.config? Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF2D0@kjserver1.kjhome.local> Hmm, not as far as I know. Why don't you use global.asax for this? There's a large number of events you can hook into, and you can use the URL rewriting capability of ASP.NET or you can use Redirects Cheers Ken : -----Original Message----- : From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist- : bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Casey Crookston : Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2005 7:04 AM : To: thelist at lists.evolt.org : Subject: [thelist] redirect from within web.config? : : Is it possible to redirect a user to another directory from within the : web.config file when no error has been presented? From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Mon Mar 14 19:47:51 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:47:51 +1100 Subject: [thelist] Help Finding & Fixing VBScript Error... Arrrgghhh! Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF2CF@kjserver1.kjhome.local> Hi, The problem is your coding. You need to know something about ASP, and writing VBScript before you start to troubleshoot these issues. Furthermore, the type of code you have is awful - it's all intermingled ASP and HTML, and that makes it really difficult to track down what the problem is. You may want to consider using an alternate coding design that eliminates this intermingling. Additionally, you might want to consider using a debugger to help track down issues. Now, you removed the <% on line 365, which fixes the "expected statement" error. However you're now getting a different error. Can you please post lines 340-370 that you now have, so we can have a look at what's going on? Cheers Ken : -----Original Message----- : From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist- : bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Administrative HQ : Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2005 2:37 AM : To: Ken Schaefer; thelist at lists.evolt.org : Subject: Re: [thelist] Help Finding & Fixing VBScript Error... Arrrgghhh! : : Hi. : : Thanks for the reply. : : Sounds logical, but I can't seem to solve it. Removing : the <% on 365 gets me: : : ********************** : Microsoft VBScript compilation error '800a03f6' : : Expected 'End' : : /pay_paypal.asp, line 366 : ********************** : : Removing the one on 366 returns the same and removing : both yields: : : ********************** : Microsoft VBScript compilation error '800a03f6' : : Expected 'End' : : /pay_paypal.asp, line 360 : ********************** : : Removing the <% from 357 gets us: : : ********************** : Microsoft VBScript compilation error '800a0400' : : Expected statement : : /pay_paypal.asp, line 366 : : <%end if : ^ : ********************** : : Other attempts - like removing the whole section - : just brought an "expected end" error up on line 280 : (which looks like it is ended and which looks EXACTLY : as it does on a working page). : : This is starting to get maddening. Any ideas how to : track this sort of problem down?? : : Thanks very much. : : Regards, : David : : --- Ken Schaefer wrote: : : : : 354 NAME="item_name" id="item_name" VALUE="CD : SPANISH"> : : 356 : 357 <% : 358 end select : 359 : 360 else%> : 361 : 362 : 363 : 364 : : : : >> 365 <% : >> 366 <%end if%> : > : > You have two opening <% one after the other. : > After the first <%, ASP is expecting some kind of : > statement, instead : > it's seeing a second <%, hence "expected statement" : > error. : > : > Cheers : > Ken : : : : : __________________________________ : Do you Yahoo!? : Yahoo! Sports - Sign up for Fantasy Baseball. : http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/ : -- : : * * Please support the community that supports you. * * : http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ : : For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester : and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org : Workers of the Web, evolt ! From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Mon Mar 14 19:48:23 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:48:23 +1100 Subject: [thelist] Select QRY problem Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF2D1@kjserver1.kjhome.local> www.adopenstatic.com/faq/80040e10.asp Suggest you do a: Response.Write(detailsID) Response.End Just before you attempt to execute the SQL statement. Additionally, I suggest you incorporate some kind of input validation: www.adopenstatic.com/resources/code/UIValidation.asp Cheers Ken : -----Original Message----- : From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist- : bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Pringle, Ron : Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2005 3:32 AM : To: theList (E-mail) : Subject: [thelist] Select QRY problem : : I'm using VBScript and Access 2000. : : I'm trying to select a specific record from my DB and am getting the : following error: : : Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e10' : [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Too few parameters. Expected 1. : : detail.asp, line 31 : : : Line 31 is: : DetailsRecordSet.Open() : : : My SQL Query is: : : DetailsRecordSet.Source = "SELECT * FROM (((tbl_event EV INNER JOIN : tbl_eventDates ED ON EV.eventID = ED.eventID) LEFT OUTER JOIN tbl_contact : C : ON EV.eventID = C.eventID) INNER JOIN tbl_link L ON EV.eventID = : L.eventID) : LEFT OUTER JOIN tbl_icon I ON EV.eventType = I.eventType WHERE : tbl_eventDates.dateID = " & detailsID & "" : : The detailsID is passed from a querystring: : : detailsID=Request.QueryString("dateID") : : : I removed all the joins and did a simple query on just the eventDates : table : and it works fine, so I'm assuming my joins are fubared and that its not : returning any records. However, I use the same join statement in another : query that pages the resulting recordset and it works fine. : : Any help would be appreciated. : : Regards, : Ron From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Mon Mar 14 19:48:28 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:48:28 +1100 Subject: [thelist] Select QRY problem Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF2D2@kjserver1.kjhome.local> You do not need to "convert" it to anything. In ASP, all you are doing is building a string. The string just happens to contain an SQL statement. The database engine parses the string to work out what it needs to do. The DBMS determines types by looking at delimiters, and by various other rules (e.g. rules it has about comparisons, field types etc). Anything you do up in your ASP layer (e.g. CInt()) has no impact on the SQL statement you are building, since that's just a string. Cheers Ken : -----Original Message----- : From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist- : bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Pringle, Ron : Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2005 5:19 AM : To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org' : Subject: RE: [thelist] Select QRY problem : : Peter et al- : : Thanks for the tips, it ended up being the simple fact that I hadn't : converted my querystring into an integer, so of course it wasn't matching, : and of course it wasn't selecting any records. : : Der. : : However, I would have thought it would have thrown a type mismatch error. : Live and learn! : : Ron : : : : > ???When this happens, the first thing to do is to : > response.write the SQL statement so you can see what it's : > really saying to the DB.? Chances are you have an empty : > "detailsID" parameter. : > : > From: "Pringle, Ron" RPringle at aurora-il.org : > : > I'm using VBScript and Access 2000. : > : > I'm trying to select a specific record from my DB and am getting the : > following error: : > : > Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e10' : > [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Too few parameters. : > Expected 1. From erik at erikheerlein.com Mon Mar 14 20:03:41 2005 From: erik at erikheerlein.com (Erik Heerlein) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:03:41 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Safari and cursive fonts In-Reply-To: <8240ec005258b8757adc36935140c454@oceanicsky.com> References: <423463E3.4020207@dsl.pipex.com> <4235CB79.5060509@dsl.pipex.com> <8240ec005258b8757adc36935140c454@oceanicsky.com> Message-ID: On Mar 14, 2005, at 7:37 PM, David Siedband wrote: > What's happening here is that Safari is assuming a font-weight:bold; > directive because you are applying these styles to headings. These > fonts don't have bold suits so they are degrading to the Safari's > default style sheet. You can work around this by specifying > font-weight:normal; Yeah, what he said. :) A good rule of thumb is if you run into a bug, specify as much as you can to see if that helps as browsers assume different default values if no specifics are made. [>] Erik Heerlein Web Developer 843-762-9382 erik at erikheerlein.com http://www.erikheerlein.com From philip at turmel.org Mon Mar 14 16:18:05 2005 From: philip at turmel.org (Phil Turmel) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:18:05 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Select QRY problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42360D9D.3040109@turmel.org> Pringle, Ron wrote: > Peter et al- > > Thanks for the tips, it ended up being the simple fact that I hadn't > converted my querystring into an integer, so of course it wasn't matching, > and of course it wasn't selecting any records. > > Der. > > However, I would have thought it would have thrown a type mismatch error. > Live and learn! Ron, At the point in your code where you were doing the concatenation, you had your base query as a string constant, and the result of response.querystring. Both of these are STRINGS. No type mismatch error is ever going to occur at that point. Plus, ASP will perform silent type conversion in many expressions, including string concatenation (along with a whole bunch of other scripting languages). You really need force querystrings into typed variables before they are used anywhere else in your code, especially before they are passed to a SQL driver. Google "SQL injection" for a good scare. HTH, Phil From webguync at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 16:02:51 2005 From: webguync at gmail.com (Bruce Gilbert) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:02:51 -0500 Subject: [thelist] php image rotation problem Message-ID: <463b785d050314140219af83f0@mail.gmail.com> I am using the following php image rotation script. "; ?> in my rotating-images.txt file I have my list of images named image1.jpg, image2.jpg through image7.jpg all on a separate line. the problem I am having Is a get a blank broken image every third or so rotation and I can't debug to see which image is not displaying, because I am calling it through ???I didn't realize that the Vatican had begun assigning user IDs (line 57). ???Wow.? This whole thing is a colossal mess of nested?If...Then statements that may or may not be terminated.? The one that starts on line 14 was the first to catch my attention, but then the three starting at line 46 made me wonder if you're?ever going to sort this out. ???Offhand, I'd suggest doing some formatting if you don't have a tool that will do it for you.? Starting at the beginning, tab in each time a new logic statement begins, and tab back out when it sends.? The goal is to make your code look something like this: If blahblah Then ???Select Case gabooga ??????Case foo ??????Case bar ??????Case Else ???End Select ???If yaddayadda Then ??????'Something Else ???End If End If From: Administrative HQ english_offline at yahoo.com Hello. Thanks for answering. This is what I've been trying to avoid (sending the whole thing) as I hate to be a nuisance. Sorry. Here goes: From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Mon Mar 14 22:35:59 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:35:59 +1100 Subject: [thelist] Select QRY problem Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF2D4@kjserver1.kjhome.local> : -----Original Message----- : From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist- : bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Phil Turmel : Subject: Re: [thelist] Select QRY problem : : Pringle, Ron wrote: : > Peter et al- : > : > Thanks for the tips, it ended up being the simple fact that I hadn't : > converted my querystring into an integer, so of course it wasn't : matching, : > and of course it wasn't selecting any records. : > : > Der. : > : > However, I would have thought it would have thrown a type mismatch : error. : > Live and learn! : : Ron, : : At the point in your code where you were doing the concatenation, you : had your base query as a string constant, and the result of : response.querystring. Both of these are STRINGS. No type mismatch : error is ever going to occur at that point. Plus, ASP will perform : silent type conversion in many expressions, including string : concatenation (along with a whole bunch of other scripting languages). : : You really need force querystrings into typed variables before they are : used anywhere else in your code, especially before they are passed to a : SQL driver. Google "SQL injection" for a good scare. He is creating an *SQL* statement. What you are asking him to do is irrelevant considering the error. The error is not the database complaining about a type-mismatch. The database is complaining about a parameter being *missing*. Casting a variable up in the ASP layer is completely irrelevant to building an SQL statement. You need to make sure that the *database* can do the necessary parsing/conversion, however in your ASP layer, everything will still be a string (well, technically a variant since there are no strings in ASP) Cheers Ken From morrison.ben at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 06:54:58 2005 From: morrison.ben at gmail.com (ben morrison) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:54:58 +0000 Subject: [thelist] Colourizing B&W Line Art In-Reply-To: <0fa101c5275d$1362efe0$a989fea9@mef> References: <0f4d01c52722$1bdbad00$a989fea9@mef> <0fa101c5275d$1362efe0$a989fea9@mef> Message-ID: <6073aef905031404544a0c9d51@mail.gmail.com> Just thought id add another easy way to achieve this. 1:Change Image mode to Greyscale. 2:change image mode to Duotone, 3: Default should be Monotone, choose your colour and press ok. ben From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Mon Mar 14 22:51:14 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:51:14 +1100 Subject: [thelist] Help Finding & Fixing VBScript Error... Arrrgghhh! Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF2D5@kjserver1.kjhome.local> OK, this is a pretty god-awful mess :-) If you check around line 266 and 280 you are doing something funky with your tags - they have no closing > There appears to be no line 304 in your line numbering system, which is probably throwing you out when you start looking to errors. ASP knows the correct line that the error is occurring on, but your numbering system isn't identifying the correct line. On lines 365 and 366 you *still* have the double <% 365 <% 366 <%end if%> That is going to cause an error (you seem to have placed that into HTML comments

    		> > > src="images/btn_submit.gif" alt="Submit" class="auto"> >
    -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 15/03/2005 From technique at oceanicsky.com Wed Mar 16 15:54:49 2005 From: technique at oceanicsky.com (David Siedband) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:54:49 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91c2d4fd93b27d981e61b960547cd6ea@oceanicsky.com> On Mar 16, 2005, at 9:17 AM, Rachell wrote: > Could you guys please test it? It's at: > http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/example.htm a few small suggestions I would make the text in your search box delete itself when the user clicks there. Some javascript like this on that input element will do the trick onFocus="this.value='';" These links need a closing double-quote

  • merchandise don't forget alt text for your logo image... cheers -- David From ian at zstudio.co.uk Wed Mar 16 16:19:05 2005 From: ian at zstudio.co.uk (Ian Anderson) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:19:05 +0000 Subject: [thelist] Are you designing with CSS and web standards? In-Reply-To: References: <42386657.8080803@zstudio.co.uk> Message-ID: <4238B0D9.7020702@zstudio.co.uk> Ivo P wrote: >I've found that a lot of the complexity of tables, even for many >horrid table based layouts, is handled quite well by screen readers >and accessibility tools rather than because of careful table designs. > >In my own testing I found that users that know their way around with a >screen reader could truly harness their potential to navigate even the >most difficult sites. A compliment really towards the accessibility >tool rather than the site design. > > I agree with you completely >I found novice screen reader users, such as students starting out with >computers, find navigating tables challenging until with repeated use >(and a lot of frustration) they can configure screen readers in a >manner they can successfully use them. Even after they reached this >comfort zone with the accessibility tool it was apparent that a large >part of the site fell outside of their experience because it fell >beyond this developed comfort zone. > > That's really interesting. I certainly accept that there is a wide spectrum when it comes to the users of assistive technology, just as there is considering users of word processors or any other software category. I'm a little surprised that you identify tables in this context though. In my experience, things like navigating data tables were problematic for our users. These shortcuts are toward the more obscure end of the spectrum; in JAWS they need to use Ctrl+Alt+Numpad 5 for read headers for current cell, and Ctrl+Alt+arrow keys to read the headers as you move through a table, for example. A lot of JAWS users don't know these and have terrible trouble with data tables even when they are marked up to the fullest extent possible. Layout tables - no issues. What screen readers were these novices using? cheers Ian From lists at neptunewebworks.com Wed Mar 16 16:23:40 2005 From: lists at neptunewebworks.com (Maximillian Schwanekamp) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:23:40 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Image preload failing in FF? Message-ID: <4238B1EC.10201@neptunewebworks.com> Hey List, I guess my client-side javascript is getting rusty! I have a simple image preload script, which works just fine in IE 6. But in Firefox (Win) it seems to be failing. It *may* just be my own FF install, as I just restored my HD from backup the other day. Can someone verify that the preload is indeed failing in Firefox, and if so tell me what's wrong with the script? The page: http://colorgrown.neptunewebworks.com/ The javascript: http://colorgrown.neptunewebworks.com/js/homepage.js The central image on the page (the background-image of div#content) should change onmouseover of the nav links on the right. It works, but in FF the change is very slow; seems to me that the images are not being cached. TIA! -- Maximillian Von Schwanekamp http://www.neptunewebworks.com/ From emagin at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 16:31:03 2005 From: emagin at gmail.com (Emagin) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:31:03 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Re: Rapid IA Prototyping In-Reply-To: <423881ae.1cb5d88d.5ecf.3367SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4238b392.29d9903e.539f.402c@mx.gmail.com> Hi Daniel Wanted to drop my .02 in here and say that I'm a big fan of Visio. I have a few requirements to do fast prototypes: 1) Objects/Shapes must link and have basic 'intelligence' (to move, grow, allow formatting, etc.) 2) Must support smart templates and sections so I can print out a large document without repeating info 3) Capable to rapid push to HTML Visio can do all these but more importantly, because it is truly ODBC aware, you can link it up to all kinds of data to generate graphical info dynamically. This is a bit overkill, but it can come in handy for larger projects. Ok so here are some great links for you: http://www.guuui.com/issues/02_03_02.php For web-pages this is awesome and soo powerful http://tinyurl.com/5desv More for UML (weak in Visio) but interesting http://tinyurl.com/6o76g This is not so useful but gives you a glimpse into power / possibilities Drawback of Visio is that it's Win32 only. Good luck : I've read a few things about how various web designers : prototype their designs (Jason Santa Maria's Grey Box Method : [http://www.jasonsantamaria.com/archive/2004/05/24/grey_box_me : thod.php] : chief among them). I have two questions for the list: : : (a) What do you use as a method for prototyping? : (b) Do you do something differently if it's another IA : document, say, an application interface or document template? : From rachell at kingestatewinery.com Wed Mar 16 16:50:44 2005 From: rachell at kingestatewinery.com (Rachell) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:50:44 -0800 Subject: [thelist] getElementBy Class? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: (I know ya'all are probably getting sick of me, but I can't help it -- I keep running into stumbling blocks left and right and you guys have been my savoirs!) I was using this javascript to make my Div ID mouseovers work. function show(object) { if (document.getElementById && document.getElementById(object) != null) node = document.getElementById(object).style.visibility='visible'; else if (document.layers && document.layers[object] != null) document.layers[object].visibility = 'visible'; else if (document.all) document.all[object].style.visibility = 'visible'; } function hide(object) { if (document.getElementById && document.getElementById(object) != null) node = document.getElementById(object).style.visibility='hidden'; else if (document.layers && document.layers[object] != null) document.layers[object].visibility = 'hidden'; else if (document.all) document.all[object].style.visibility = 'hidden'; } but I want to use getElementByClass instead of ID. I've tried various different ways to make it work, but knowing so little of javascript, nothing has -- does anyone know what changes need to be done to this script to make the mouseovers on this page work? http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/Domaine/Estate/Gardens-test.htm Rachell Coe Webmaster King Estate Winery 541-942-9874 Ext: 136 http://www.kingestate.com From ian at zstudio.co.uk Wed Mar 16 17:03:05 2005 From: ian at zstudio.co.uk (Ian Anderson) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:03:05 +0000 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? -- fixed? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4238BB29.9010405@zstudio.co.uk> Rachell wrote: >Thank you guys for checking it so quickly! I made some changes to the CSS - >does the curve now show up? > Hi Rachell, nice site... I see the curve. :) Just an observation regarding the CSS rollovers on the top nav. In IE6 Windows, there is an appreciable lag (something like 0.5-1.0 seconds) as the image seems to unload and then reload in the rollover state. The reverse happens onmouseout. I see this a lot in CSS rollovers, and I'm not sure if there is any way to address it. I notice you're using a script from http://www.xs4all.nl/~peterned/csshover.html using .htc files to define behaviors for elements other than A tags. Now, I am not sure if the thing I am seeing is a CSS thing or IE trying to parse all the elements in the DOM tree every time you mouse over these links; sorry, don't have time to test it just now. It is sufficiently bad that I personally would not use image-based CSS rollovers on a commercial site if that is where the problem lies, although I am not sure how sensitive end users are to the aesthetics involved. Maybe they would not notice; to me it is like a big red nose on a statue. Or something. Anyway. Although CSS is now an increasingly common way of doing image rollovers, in the world's most popular browser the result looks way shoddy. This is not a reflection on your work, incidentally; looks great. It's just your site has this symptom and you asked for feedback. Just thought I'd mention it. On a general note, I am somewhat old school and think first of JS for behaviour and CSS for presentation. What is actually wrong with JS rollovers? Is it that rollovers are kind of more about presentation than behaviour, strictly speaking? All the best Ian Anderson From mwarden at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 17:09:15 2005 From: mwarden at gmail.com (Matt Warden) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 18:09:15 -0500 Subject: [thelist] getElementBy Class? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:50:44 -0800, Rachell wrote: > but I want to use getElementByClass instead of ID. I've tried various > different ways to make it work, but knowing so little of javascript, nothing > has -- does anyone know what changes need to be done to this script to make > the mouseovers on this page work? > http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/Domaine/Estate/Gardens-test.htm http://dean.edwards.name/my/#cssQuery.js -- Matt Warden Miami University Oxford, OH, USA http://mattwarden.com This email proudly and graciously contributes to entropy. From lists at onlinetools.org Wed Mar 16 17:58:28 2005 From: lists at onlinetools.org (Christian Heilmann) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:58:28 +0000 Subject: [thelist] getElementBy Class? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4238C824.9090306@onlinetools.org> Rachell wrote: >(I know ya'all are probably getting sick of me, but I can't help it -- I >keep running into stumbling blocks left and right and you guys have been my >savoirs!) > >I was using this javascript to make my Div ID mouseovers work. > >function show(object) { > if (document.getElementById && document.getElementById(object) != null) > node = document.getElementById(object).style.visibility='visible'; > else if (document.layers && document.layers[object] != null) > document.layers[object].visibility = 'visible'; > else if (document.all) > document.all[object].style.visibility = 'visible'; >} > >function hide(object) { > if (document.getElementById && document.getElementById(object) != null) > node = document.getElementById(object).style.visibility='hidden'; > else if (document.layers && document.layers[object] != null) > document.layers[object].visibility = 'hidden'; > else if (document.all) > document.all[object].style.visibility = 'hidden'; >} > >but I want to use getElementByClass instead of ID. I've tried various >different ways to make it work, but knowing so little of javascript, nothing >has -- does anyone know what changes need to be done to this script to make >the mouseovers on this page work? >http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/Domaine/Estate/Gardens-test.htm > > The main problem is your markup. Instead of using a nested list, which would make the whole effort a lot easier, you use divs which are not nested and are hard to reach even with DOM and JavaScript. With the correct markup, a script creating this effect is rather easy: http://www.onlinetools.org/tests/mysterymeat.html I am not too sure about the logic of a navigation going upward, though, looks to me a lot like Mystery Meat: http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/mysterymeatnavigation.html From rachell at kingestatewinery.com Wed Mar 16 17:31:23 2005 From: rachell at kingestatewinery.com (Rachell) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:31:23 -0800 Subject: [thelist] getElementBy Class? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you so much! The problem's solved! Rachell Coe Webmaster King Estate Winery 541-942-9874 Ext: 136 http://www.kingestate.com From evoltlist at delime.com Wed Mar 16 17:18:03 2005 From: evoltlist at delime.com (M. Seyon) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:18:03 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Odd CSS selection loophole ... In-Reply-To: <20050316190049.GU1175@DotsAndLoops.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20050316191547.00a96a40@mx.delime.com> Message from e-head (3/16/2005 03:00 PM) >I think I found a weird "selection" loophole in css. > >Logically, I need "all *anchor* tags that have a *img* tag as a child" >... i.e. > >I need to apply styles to *a* tags with this nesting structure. > >via css .... one can select only tags "with certain parents" ... but not >only tags "having certain children" it would seem. May I ask what you want to do that requires this? Maybe there's another way to accomplish what you want. regards. -marc -- Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com http://www.playyuhself.com/ From bj at kickasswebdesign.com Wed Mar 16 18:51:21 2005 From: bj at kickasswebdesign.com (BJ) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:51:21 -0500 Subject: RE [thelist] Simple page editor Message-ID: <4238D489.4050906@kickasswebdesign.com> "I am looking for a simple script (PHP preferred) that will change a single page on a site." A friend made a script like this for me-- it very simply inserts the contents of a .txt file (script currently set for it to be named "includeme.txt") within the page where you specify. The person who updates that file would need to know some simple html formatting-- headlines and the strong tag will probably be sufficient. If the page is xhtml they'll need to use p tags within the txt file, and you'll need to get rid of that part of the php snippet that writes the initial p tag since xhtml requires closed tags to validate. Anyway, once the script is in place they'd simply have to upload the new file and overwrite the old for the page to be updated. Simply include this code within an html page, and save the page with the extension php. Then upload the txt file to the same directory. There may be fancier ways to do this, but I can't tell you how many times I've used this script! Clients use it for updating calendars, menus, recipes, schedules, etc. and they and I are all happy they don't have to call me for little chores like this! I have put the html and txt pages into their own directory just to keep the murphy factor to a minimum since most of these folks are just barely computer literate, and have to be taught how to ftp-- I usually set the ftp up for them if they're local to me and set it to point directly into that directory. Here's the code: "; $filename = "includeme.txt"; $placeholder = "No updates available today."; ?> From evoltlist at delime.com Wed Mar 16 19:19:26 2005 From: evoltlist at delime.com (M. Seyon) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:19:26 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Please test my page? Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20050316211752.02319ee8@mx.delime.com> Message from Chris Johnston (3/16/2005 01:58 PM) >There is something very strange going on at the bottom of the >photograph. Not sure if it is the photo or the design, but it should >be removed. It is some kind of curvy thing. Could be the top of a >fence, but I am not sure. I saw this too, it's in the photo itself and seems to be a design element. It's mirrored just below the navigation links. Is that the "curve" you were referring to? If it was, it works fine. >I clicked on a few links and saw the old design. Personally I think it >looks more interesting then the new one. The new one looks way to >blocky. At the risk of ruffling any feathers I have to say I agree with Chris, the only thing I like in the new design over the old is the colours. Other than that it's rather ho-hum boring. The typography in the other site was better with the bright headers and paragraph spacing. Plus I liked the curves in the design. In Opera 7.5 the curve of the G is not aligned, it's off to the left by a bit. I noticed lots of the other problems other people mentioned too - the GO button, the TASTE menu always being displayed, the "jigsaw" effect. The jigsaw effect seems to be because the links in the submenu are wider than the container so they're overlapping. Did you want any other feedback on the design or just those things you mentioned? regards. -marc -- Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com http://www.playyuhself.com/ From ebone+thelist at dotsandloops.net Wed Mar 16 21:51:26 2005 From: ebone+thelist at dotsandloops.net (e-head) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:51:26 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Odd CSS selection loophole ... In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20050316191547.00a96a40@mx.delime.com> References: <20050316190049.GU1175@DotsAndLoops.net> <4.2.0.58.20050316191547.00a96a40@mx.delime.com> Message-ID: <20050317035126.GV1175@DotsAndLoops.net> On 03/16/05 19:18 or thereabouts, M. Seyon scribbled: > Message from e-head (3/16/2005 03:00 PM) > > >I think I found a weird "selection" loophole in css. > > > >Logically, I need "all *anchor* tags that have a *img* tag as a child" > >... i.e. > > > >I need to apply styles to *a* tags with this nesting structure. > > > >via css .... one can select only tags "with certain parents" ... but not > >only tags "having certain children" it would seem. > > May I ask what you want to do that requires this? Maybe there's another way > to accomplish what you want. > Ohh, it can definetly be done using another method ... right now I have a class that I add all tags too that fit this criteria (have a child element). I was just going through and cleaning up my code, and trying to make it as "nice" as possible ... I was just surprised I couldn't do away with this class, which I always assumed was there out of laziness on my part. But I'm staring to think it's the only way. From evoltlist at delime.com Wed Mar 16 22:20:31 2005 From: evoltlist at delime.com (M. Seyon) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 00:20:31 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Odd CSS selection loophole ... In-Reply-To: <20050317035126.GV1175@DotsAndLoops.net> References: <4.2.0.58.20050316191547.00a96a40@mx.delime.com> <20050316190049.GU1175@DotsAndLoops.net> <4.2.0.58.20050316191547.00a96a40@mx.delime.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20050317001910.02393dd8@mx.delime.com> Message from e-head (3/16/2005 11:51 PM) >On 03/16/05 19:18 or thereabouts, M. Seyon scribbled: > > Message from e-head (3/16/2005 03:00 PM) > > > > >I think I found a weird "selection" loophole in css. > > > > > >Logically, I need "all *anchor* tags that have a *img* tag as a child" > > >... i.e. > > > > > >I need to apply styles to *a* tags with this nesting structure. > > > > > >via css .... one can select only tags "with certain parents" ... but not > > >only tags "having certain children" it would seem. > > > > May I ask what you want to do that requires this? Maybe there's another > way > > to accomplish what you want. > > > >Ohh, it can definetly be done using another method ... right now I have a >class that I add all tags too that fit this criteria (have a child > element). This doesn't really say *what you want to do*. It's never nice to gripe and moan about something not working the way you want and then be cryptic about what you wanted it to do in the first place. regards. -marc -- Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com http://www.playyuhself.com/ From lists at neptunewebworks.com Thu Mar 17 00:56:52 2005 From: lists at neptunewebworks.com (Maximillian Schwanekamp) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:56:52 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Image preload failing in FF? [solved] In-Reply-To: <4238B1EC.10201@neptunewebworks.com> References: <4238B1EC.10201@neptunewebworks.com> Message-ID: <42392A34.2070607@neptunewebworks.com> I wrote: > I guess my client-side javascript is getting rusty! I have a simple > image preload script, which works just fine in IE 6. But in Firefox > (Win) it seems to be failing. No response to this yet anyway, but to preempt any later on... It was a problem with my Firefox install using a copied profile directory from backup. I deleted the profile directory and reinstalled, now all is well. Guess it *was* just me. -- Maximillian Von Schwanekamp http://www.neptunewebworks.com/ From lists at onlinetools.org Thu Mar 17 02:10:41 2005 From: lists at onlinetools.org (Christian Heilmann) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:10:41 +0000 Subject: [thelist] Source code highlight class Message-ID: <42393B81.9050400@onlinetools.org> Is there a PHP class that displays different code (CSS, XML, PHP, JavaScript) colourcoded? I remember one but am too daft to google it now it seems. cheers Chris From ruimbmadeira at yahoo.com.br Thu Mar 17 05:17:11 2005 From: ruimbmadeira at yahoo.com.br (Rui Madeira) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:17:11 -0300 (ART) Subject: [thelist] Help on MapGuide Message-ID: <20050317111711.52910.qmail@web20704.mail.yahoo.com> Hello everyone Is it possible to put a "loading bar" in a web page that is uploading a .wmf? Thanks in advaced Regards Rui Madeira --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail - Com 250MB de espa?o. Abra sua conta! From brian.delaney at mccmh.net Thu Mar 17 07:19:00 2005 From: brian.delaney at mccmh.net (Brian Delaney) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:19:00 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Strange HTML output Message-ID: <423983C4.1000205@mccmh.net> Each row of the report is either white or silver. When looking at the silver rows I see that the silver box does not always fill the entire TD. This happens only on top of the td. Any ideas? * * * This message, including any attachments, is intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or priveleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution of this communication(s) is expressly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy any and all copies of the original message. From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Thu Mar 17 07:52:51 2005 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 07:52:51 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Strange HTML output Message-ID: [snip] Each row of the report is either white or silver. When looking at the silver rows I see that the silver box does not always fill the entire TD. This happens only on top of the td. Any ideas? [/snip] Some of the HTML and any code used to output HTML would be good here. Or a URL, where we can view the problem. I do have an idea. When asking about problems with any scripting or markup language it is very helpful if you include in your request the portion of the language that you believe to be the cause of the trouble or a place (URL) where the problem can be observed. You will get more valuable responses and perhaps a solution to your problem. Also, ask smart questions ... http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html From lists at onlinetools.org Thu Mar 17 08:04:55 2005 From: lists at onlinetools.org (Chris Heilmann) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:04:55 +0100 (CET) Subject: [thelist] Strange HTML output In-Reply-To: <423983C4.1000205@mccmh.net> References: <423983C4.1000205@mccmh.net> Message-ID: <37245.80.85.75.20.1111068295.squirrel@webmail01.nwu.net> > Each row of the report is either white or silver. > > When looking at the silver rows I see that the silver box does not > always fill the entire TD. > > This happens only on top of the td. > > Any ideas? It is a riddle, right? I vote it was the colonel in the library with the pipe! If you want an answer to your problem we need some more information like: - Can we see the code? - Which os/browser does your problem show up in? And so on: http://www.evolt.org/helponline -- Chris Heilmann Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com Writing: http://icant.co.uk/ Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/ From michele at wizardev.ca Thu Mar 17 08:57:16 2005 From: michele at wizardev.ca (Michele Foster (WizarDev)) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:57:16 -0500 Subject: [thelist] PHP Search for site Message-ID: <002001c52b01$9d179fe0$a989fea9@mef> Hi Folks .. Can anyone recommend a good PHP Site Search script. It must be something that I can skin completely to look like our site ... AND ... I must be able to install it via FTP and not have to compile it. Additionally, the site has approximately 1000 pages, 1/2 in English 1/2 in French. The search must allow for there to be two unique site indices, one for each language. TIA, Mich From John.Brooking at sappi.com Thu Mar 17 10:24:40 2005 From: John.Brooking at sappi.com (Brooking, John) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:24:40 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Simple page editor Message-ID: <7470E917C11D7241A35D95903556147104981AC6@cdfnexc7.NA.Sappi.com> >> "I am looking for a simple script (PHP preferred) that will >> change a single page on a site." > > A friend made a script like this for me-- it very simply inserts > the contents of a .txt file (script currently set for it to be > named "includeme.txt") within the page where you specify. The > ... ... > computer literate, and have to be taught how to ftp-- I usually > set the ftp up for them if they're local to me and set it to > point directly into that directory. This is exactly what I was going to suggest. The only thing I can add is if this is on a Windows system, you can take advantage of the built-in command line FTP client to automate the uploading step with a script. That way, you can get the user interface down to double-clicking the text file to edit it, then double-clicking a command icon to upload it. Here's an example FTP script: open ftp.mysite.com user username password lcd C:\local\path\to\the\file cd /remote/path asc put includeme.txt bye Invoke this in a command file using this (if the above script is named "scriptname.ftp"): ftp -n "-s:C:\The\path\to\the\script\scripname.ftp" pause Of course you can get fancy with logging, archiving, and/or echoing output to the user, if you want. I'm sure this can be done on a Mac, too, but I have no experience with that. Hope this helps. - John -- This message may contain information which is private, privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity named in the message. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender thereof and destroy / delete the message. Neither the sender nor Sappi Limited (including its subsidiaries and associated companies) shall incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly from accessing any of the attached files which may contain a virus or the like. From joshua at waetech.com Thu Mar 17 10:31:17 2005 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:31:17 -0500 Subject: [thelist] PHP Search for site In-Reply-To: <002001c52b01$9d179fe0$a989fea9@mef> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Michele Foster (WizarDev) > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 9:57 AM > > Hi Folks .. > > Can anyone recommend a good PHP Site Search script. It must > be something > that I can skin completely to look like our site ... AND ... > I must be able > to install it via FTP and not have to compile it. > Additionally, the site > has approximately 1000 pages, 1/2 in English 1/2 in French. > The search must > allow for there to be two unique site indices, one for each language. Mich, Take a look at Zoom. http://www.wrensoft.com/zoom/ Works wonders. Not sure about the language support, but if the pages are in different subfolders, I would think it would work as is. <><><><><><><><><><> Joshua Olson Web Application Engineer WAE Tech Inc. http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ 706.210.0168 From muraii at yahoo.com Thu Mar 17 10:31:12 2005 From: muraii at yahoo.com (Daniel LeVangie-Stricklen) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:31:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [thelist] Re: Rapid IA Prototyping Message-ID: <20050317163112.65232.qmail@web50306.mail.yahoo.com> I have a few requirements to do fast prototypes: 1) Objects/Shapes must link and have basic 'intelligence' (to move, grow, allow formatting, etc.) 2) Must support smart templates and sections so I can print out a large document without repeating info 3) Capable to rapid push to HTML Eventually, I'd like to be doing work of a substance that would require this complexity. At the moment, though, it'll be much lower-end than this. I looked into paper prototyping, which may work out okay, too; but I prefer the cleanliness of digital mock-ups. Visio can do all these but more importantly, because it is truly ODBC aware, you can link it up to all kinds of data to generate graphical info dynamically. This is a bit overkill, but it can come in handy for larger projects. It's overkill if for no other reason than that it's $500. However, now that I think about it, our IT group might have prototyping practices and tools, possibly including Visio; so maybe it's a matter of finding a free seat. Ok so here are some great links for you: http://www.guuui.com/issues/02_03_02.php For web-pages this is awesome and soo powerful http://tinyurl.com/5desv More for UML (weak in Visio) but interesting http://tinyurl.com/6o76g This is not so useful but gives you a glimpse into power / possibilities I skimmed. Very nice. I like especially the links to other resources and articles, like Boxes and Arrows. I've been putting off (mostly despite my interest) looking deeply into IA study, like, for instance, reading Tufte's or others' work on the fundamentals, let alone dig into Use Cases and all that. Very helpful reply. Thank you. Daniel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From chef at shiokfood.com Thu Mar 17 12:25:17 2005 From: chef at shiokfood.com (Madhu Menon) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 23:55:17 +0530 Subject: [thelist] Opinions about TotalChoice Hosting Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20050317235241.02ee2be8@127.0.0.1> Hi folks. Have any of you used TotalChoice Hosting (www.totalchoicehosting.com)? If so, could you share your experiences? I'm thinking of signing up for a reseller account over there, and have already searched webhostingtalk.com Regards, Madhu From pablo at qecept.com Thu Mar 17 12:55:53 2005 From: pablo at qecept.com (Pablo Oliva) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 10:55:53 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Need developer/designer Message-ID: My company is looking for someone to contract with to develop/design a website for a new client. The details are sketchy at this point, but the client needs an e-commerce site. The number of products should not be more than a few hundred. Can anyone provide a proposal based on this? Please send responses to info at financialnewsusa.com Thanks From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Thu Mar 17 13:03:56 2005 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:03:56 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Need developer/designer Message-ID: [snip] My company is looking for someone to contract with to develop/design a website for a new client. The details are sketchy at this point, but the client needs an e-commerce site. The number of products should not be more than a few hundred. Can anyone provide a proposal based on this? Please send responses to info at financialnewsusa.com [/snip] There is not information in here for anyone to make a proposal save for what they would charge by the hour. From rob.smith at THERMON.com Thu Mar 17 14:08:25 2005 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:08:25 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Proceed to Checkout - Authorize.net Question Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D279@smtmb.tmc.local> > I don't store anything to the database until > the "accepted" status comes back from the transaction gateway... How do you detect that? How and what format do I get my information back from the gateway? > ... of my transactions table) to AuthNet, which then passes it > back in the response, and the transaction record gets updated with the > approval code, etc (verifying the session ID as well as the order ID) I don't suppose I could get that table structure from you? > and I only save the last 4 digits of the card for the > customer's reference. So how do you get repeat business without having to ask for the cc information again. Wouldn't it be convenient to have it stored for them (but only display the last four-five digits) when they want to perform upgrade$ on their account? Rob From info at scribenewmedia.com Thu Mar 17 14:26:22 2005 From: info at scribenewmedia.com (Tony Grimes) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:26:22 -0700 Subject: [thelist] DHTML Test and Critique Message-ID: I was wondering if anyone could test and critique a collapsible-menu script I wrote for a client's site map: http://www.tonygrimes.com/collapsible_menu.html It's inspired by Dave Lindquist's menus: http://www.gazingus.org/html/menuExpandable.html Hopefully, it degrades gracefully. I've only tested Safari/Mac, Firefox1/Netscape7/Mac IE5/Mac and IE6/PC. I'm not really familiar with Javascript and browser compatibility issues (I come from a PHP background) so I'm open to suggestions on how to improve it. I'd especially like to hear ideas on how to cut down code size, easier ways to do manipulate the DOM, etc. Some issues I've found so far: - The "show/hide all" links don't work in Safari. Can't figure out why. - the plus/minus list images don't initially show in Safari and Mozilla (Mac), or they don't draw correctly. Maybe I should declare the styles explicitly instead of changing the class name? - My use of splice() probably excludes some modern-ish browsers (IE5/PC?). Is there a better way of removing elements from an array. - Not really an issue, but I chose to use firstChild instead of innerHTML when copying the h3 content into a link. Is there a DOM-friendly way to copy all child/grandchild nodes into a new element? If not, I think I'll go with innerHTML eventually. - Question: does Javascript have an inArray() method like PHP's in_array()? I just made my own for now. Any input would be greatly appreciated. TIA Tony From mwarden at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 14:28:26 2005 From: mwarden at gmail.com (Matt Warden) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:28:26 -0500 Subject: [thelist] smarty tip Message-ID: This was posted by 'dan' on the Smarty list. Thought it might be helpful. Reposted with permission. This one bit me in the butt... but only on IE mac 5.2 (don't ask!). When you use {cycle} to apply alternating CSS classes watch out that you don't leave spaces in the values parameter: {* this implements a table with rollover behaviour *} {* it would normally be in a section or foreach *} {* this version breaks in IE 5.2 Mac NOT tested in other IE *} if you leave the space between the values as in: values="row_color_1, row_color_2" IE mac 5.2 doesn't like it and doesn't show the row! To be sure, just remove the space like so: values="row_color_1,row_color_2" -- Matt Warden Miami University Oxford, OH, USA http://mattwarden.com This email proudly and graciously contributes to entropy. From Brian at hondaswap.com Thu Mar 17 14:39:10 2005 From: Brian at hondaswap.com (Brian Cummiskey) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:39:10 -0500 Subject: [thelist] eliminating chance of double-usage (classic asp/mssql) Message-ID: <4239EAEE.4020808@hondaswap.com> Hi all, I'm writing a script that first selects an available control number from the table. then, i am updating that selected number to UseStatus = "1" (which denotes used; 0 = available/default value) and then i'm doing a simple query to get the amount left for documentation purposes for now. This works fine, and produces the desired results. Now, my problem is, there is a SMALL CHANCE that at any given moment, there may be two people hitting the script at the exact same time, thus the 2nd selecting the same control number as the first before the first has a chance to update the UseStatus to "1". I understand we're talking about mili seconds here, but there it still a chance. If this were to happen, it will lead to sooo many problems, i wouldn't even begin to type a list up. Here's my current code: <% '------------------------------ ' select an available control number Set Conn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Conn.open strCN sSQL = "Select TOP 1 ControlNumber FROM tControlNumbers where UseStatus = '0' AND STATE = '"& statelookup &"'" Set rst = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") rst.ActiveConnection = conn rst.open sSQL if not rst.EOF then do until rst.EOF for x = 0 to rst.Fields.count - 1 Response.Write "

    Your Control Number is: "& rst.Fields(x).Value &" 

    " Response.cookies("OD")("control_number") = rst.Fields(x).Value next rst.MoveNext loop else response.write "Error, Improper SearchState passed. Call over a manager to get in touch with IT" response.write "" end if '-------------------------------------------------------------- ' update it to used... sSQL2 = "SELECT * FROM tControlNumbers where ControlNumber = '"& request.cookies("OD")("control_number") &"'" set objRS = server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") objRS.Open sSQL2, strCN, adOpenDynamic, adLockPessimistic if objRS.EOF then response.write "Error - no record found with that control number. Contact IT" else objRS("UseStatus") = "1" objRS.UPDATE end if SET objRS=NOTHING '--------------------------------------------------- ' now, check for remaining numbers left... Set Conn3 = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Conn3.open strCN sSQL3 = "SELECT State AS 'State', count(*) AS 'Control Numbers Left' FROM tControlNumbers where UseStatus = '0' group by State" Set rst3 = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") rst3.ActiveConnection = conn3 rst3.open sSQL3 response.write "" for x = 0 to 1 Response.Write "" & vbcrlf next response.write "" if not rst3.EOF then do until rst3.EOF response.write "" for x = 0 to 1 Response.Write "" & vbcrlf next response.write "" rst3.MoveNext loop end if rst3.close conn3.close response.write "
    "& rst3.Fields(x).Name & "
    "& rst3.Fields(x).Value &"
    " %> this produces the desired results: Your Control Number is: XXXXXXXXXXXX State Control Numbers Left CA 100 FL 100 MA 86 NJ 100 TX 100 But as stated, i'm concerned about that small time before the update happens where someone else hits the app, and selects the same top 1 as it hasn't been updated to used yet. Anyone have any ideas on how to assure that it won't be used twice? From hassan at webtuitive.com Thu Mar 17 14:48:20 2005 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 12:48:20 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Proceed to Checkout - Authorize.net Question In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D279@smtmb.tmc.local> References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D279@smtmb.tmc.local> Message-ID: <4239ED14.1090906@webtuitive.com> Rob Smith wrote: >>I don't store anything to the database until >>the "accepted" status comes back from the transaction gateway... > > How do you detect that? How and what format do I get my information back > from the gateway? See the AIM doc: "Gateway Response API". Or just save the customer data in session until you get the response and then store... -- Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. From mwarden at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 14:50:43 2005 From: mwarden at gmail.com (Matt Warden) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:50:43 -0500 Subject: [thelist] eliminating chance of double-usage (classic asp/mssql) In-Reply-To: <4239EAEE.4020808@hondaswap.com> References: <4239EAEE.4020808@hondaswap.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:39:10 -0500, Brian Cummiskey wrote: > '-------------------------------------------------------------- > ' update it to used... > > sSQL2 = "SELECT * FROM tControlNumbers where ControlNumber = '"& > request.cookies("OD")("control_number") &"'" > > set objRS = server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") > objRS.Open sSQL2, strCN, adOpenDynamic, adLockPessimistic > > if objRS.EOF then > response.write "Error - no record found with that control number. > Contact IT" > else > objRS("UseStatus") = "1" > objRS.UPDATE > end if > > SET objRS=NOTHING Use an UPDATE sql statement rather than SELECT'ing and then updating the recordset. UPDATE tControlNumbers SET UseStatus=1 WHERE ControlNumber=... AND UseStatus!=1 You can then test the number of affected rows. If it is 1, then you have the control number. If it is 0, then another process has selected the control number and reserved it between the time you last selected the control number and are now updating it. You could still have problems depending on how your database handles concurrent updates and reads. This is more or less a solved problem, but you might want to look into how it's solved to see if it gives well with what yuo're trying to do. If not, you will need to use some sort of locking system in your application. -- Matt Warden Miami University Oxford, OH, USA http://mattwarden.com This email proudly and graciously contributes to entropy. From raskenbo at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 15:01:52 2005 From: raskenbo at gmail.com (raskenbo) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 16:01:52 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Spdiderzilla Substitute Message-ID: Hi list. I just upgraded to Firefox 1.01 (on w2k) and the Spiderzilla [1] extension doesn't seem to be compatible with it. "Spiderzilla allows you to download a World Wide website from the Internet to a local directory,building recursively all structures, getting html, images, and other files from the server to your computer." I know of stand-alone programs that can download entire sites, but it was nice to select "tools/Download this site" from the main Firefox menu and be done. Anyone know of any solutions/substitutions? [1] http://spiderzilla.mozdev.org/ TIA, Ken Chase Freelance Web Design http://www.kenchase.com From erik at erikheerlein.com Thu Mar 17 16:15:14 2005 From: erik at erikheerlein.com (Erik Heerlein) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 17:15:14 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Proceed to Checkout - Authorize.net Question In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D279@smtmb.tmc.local> References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D279@smtmb.tmc.local> Message-ID: <16ac9db3fe2f03c0be8fd882a1a80b7a@erikheerlein.com> On Mar 17, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Rob Smith wrote: >> and I only save the last 4 digits of the card for the >> customer's reference. > > So how do you get repeat business without having to ask for the cc > information again. Wouldn't it be convenient to have it stored for > them (but > only display the last four-five digits) when they want to perform > upgrade$ > on their account? You can save that information if you want to, I don't because I do not want to be held responsible for the security of that information and my business does not have customer's set up an account so there is no need to save it. By saving it, you take on the added responsibility of protecting it securely. From markgroen at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 16:55:21 2005 From: markgroen at gmail.com (Mark Groen) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:55:21 -0800 Subject: [thelist] PHP Search for site In-Reply-To: <002001c52b01$9d179fe0$a989fea9@mef> References: <002001c52b01$9d179fe0$a989fea9@mef> Message-ID: <23dbfbd105031714557bf8c563@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:57:16 -0500, Michele Foster (WizarDev) <> wrote: > Can anyone recommend a good PHP Site Search script. It must be something > that I can skin completely to look like our site ... AND ... I must be able > to install it via FTP and not have to compile it. Additionally, the site > has approximately 1000 pages, 1/2 in English 1/2 in French. The search must > allow for there to be two unique site indices, one for each language. DGS search is pretty easy to skin and you can make multiple searches out of it: http://www.digitalgenesis.com/ In action: http://www.bowenisland.org/search1/ it can search either or both database fields and your web regular web site files. You need to add an open source pdf reader to search files in that format, it's the only thing I've found lacking. cheers, Mark MG Web Services www.mgwebservices.ca Your Canadian West Coast web site development and hosting solution. From rob.smith at THERMON.com Thu Mar 17 16:49:23 2005 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 16:49:23 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Proceed to Checkout - Authorize.net Question Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D27E@smtmb.tmc.local> > See the AIM doc: "Gateway Response API". Or just save the customer > data in session until you get the response and then store... Ohhh I see what you mean. The very fact that the receipt page was pulled up should invoke the system to look for those session variables that should be filled in and if all the required data is available, then insert it. That means I could care less what was sent back to me. But... that just goes to show how do I detect what response it was. I suppose I just need to re-RTFM, Rob From justin at pxlabs.com Thu Mar 17 17:15:33 2005 From: justin at pxlabs.com (Justin @ pxLabs) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 18:15:33 -0500 Subject: SPAM-LOW: RE: [thelist] Need developer/designer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I agree with what Jay said. When I meet with a potential client, it takes me close to an 2 hours (or more, depending on the situation) to get an idea of what it is they want, nevermind what the total cost of the project might be. The best advice I can give you is to get more information (as much as possible) about the project and post back to the list. Having said that, I have emailed the address mentioned below for more information as well. Thanks, Justin Kozuch Creative Director, pxLabs Jay Blanchard wrote: >[snip] >There is not information in here for anyone to make a proposal save for >what they would charge by the hour. >[/snip] > From hassan at webtuitive.com Thu Mar 17 17:42:24 2005 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:42:24 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Proceed to Checkout - Authorize.net Question In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D27E@smtmb.tmc.local> References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D27E@smtmb.tmc.local> Message-ID: <423A15E0.8060403@webtuitive.com> Rob Smith wrote: > Ohhh I see what you mean. The very fact that the receipt page was pulled up ? What "receipt page"? With AIM, you post your collected variables (names, addresses, CC #, etc.) to the Authorize.net gateway, which returns a response with most of those variables included *plus* the all-important "is this card good or not?" code :-) Based on your parsing of that response, you then display your "OK, purchase confirmed" or "sorry, try again!" (or whatever) page. > I suppose I just need to re-RTFM, OK :-) -- Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. From dwain at alforddesigngroup.com Fri Mar 18 00:08:25 2005 From: dwain at alforddesigngroup.com (dwain at alforddesigngroup.com) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 00:08:25 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Spdiderzilla Substitute In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <423A7059.5020103@alforddesigngroup.com> raskenbo wrote: > Hi list. > > I just upgraded to Firefox 1.01 (on w2k) and the Spiderzilla [1] > extension doesn't seem to be compatible with it. > > "Spiderzilla allows you to download a World Wide website from the > Internet to a local directory,building recursively all structures, > getting html, images, and other files from the server to your > computer." > > I know of stand-alone programs that can download entire sites, but it > was nice to select "tools/Download this site" from the main Firefox > menu and be done. > > Anyone know of any solutions/substitutions? > > [1] http://spiderzilla.mozdev.org/ > > TIA, > Ken Chase > Freelance Web Design > http://www.kenchase.com just installed spiderzilla with ff 1.0.1 on w2k box and downloaded a site. the site did not function properly, but all of the files and folders were there. dwain -- Dwain Alford http://www.alforddesigngroup.com web hosting: http://www.1and1.com/?k_id=7653741 http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=0&t=1/ "The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression." Wassily Kandinsky, "Concerning The Spiritual In Art" From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Fri Mar 18 00:13:29 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 17:13:29 +1100 Subject: [thelist] eliminating chance of double-usage (classic asp/mssql) Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF316@kjserver1.kjhome.local> : -----Original Message----- : From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist- : bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Matt Warden : Subject: Re: [thelist] eliminating chance of double-usage (classic : asp/mssql) : : On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:39:10 -0500, Brian Cummiskey : wrote: : > '-------------------------------------------------------------- : > ' update it to used... : > : > sSQL2 = "SELECT * FROM tControlNumbers where ControlNumber = '"& : > request.cookies("OD")("control_number") &"'" : > : > set objRS = server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") : > objRS.Open sSQL2, strCN, adOpenDynamic, adLockPessimistic : > : > if objRS.EOF then : > response.write "Error - no record found with that : control number. : > Contact IT" : > else : > objRS("UseStatus") = "1" : > objRS.UPDATE : > end if : > : > SET objRS=NOTHING : : Use an UPDATE sql statement rather than SELECT'ing and then updating : the recordset. : : UPDATE tControlNumbers SET UseStatus=1 WHERE ControlNumber=... AND : UseStatus!=1 : : You can then test the number of affected rows. If it is 1, then you : have the control number. If it is 0, then another process has selected : the control number and reserved it between the time you last selected : the control number and are now updating it. : : You could still have problems depending on how your database handles : concurrent updates and reads. You can set the transaction isolation level in SQL Server (e.g. repeatable read) to prevent issues with updates and dirty reads. Cheers Ken From evolt at kasimir-k.fi Fri Mar 18 01:04:00 2005 From: evolt at kasimir-k.fi (Kasimir K) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 07:04:00 +0000 Subject: [thelist] Spdiderzilla Substitute In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <423A7D60.9080502@kasimir-k.fi> raskenbo scribeva in 2005-03-17 21:01: > Anyone know of any solutions/substitutions? If not fully substituting, but at least complementing very well: http://downthemall.mozdev.org/ .k From court3nay at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 01:53:27 2005 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:53:27 +1100 Subject: [thelist] XMLhttpRequest, javascript arrays? Message-ID: <4b430c8f05031723532dd58315@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I'm (bravely) building a data-entry app (in Rails, heh) that uses xmlHttpRequest to send the form data asynchronously to the server (it also degrades without javascript). The code works something like this: -Data is in a table with 3 columns - User enters data in a form field at the end of the table - Javascript intercepts form.onsubmit, appends a new row to the existing data with the text from the form. - Javascript sends xmlHttpRequest to a controller, which adds it to the db. So the process is quite fast for the user (immediate in fact) and there's no waiting around for the database (inserts being quite slow). If there's an error, it uses a css popup to alert the user. If the insert is successful, it changes a little icon next to the item. [x] [ Item name ] [ $4.50 ] [x] [ Other Item name ] [ $3.25 ] [ ] [ New item name ] [ $2.50 ] [ (form field ] [ (form field) ] [Submit] Here's the problem: I store the 'current row' as a global var (eek). If the user adds a few rows quickly, it can't keep up with the icon changes. javascript: var req; var cur; function XMLreq(url, target) { cur = target; if (window.XMLHttpRequest) { req = new XMLHttpRequest(); ... etc. } function processReqChange() { if (req.readyState == 4 && req.status == 200) { cur.innerHTML += req.responseText; } } So maybe if I use associative arrays like cur[url] = target; then on processReqChange use cur[url].innerHTML = req.responseText However, there's no way of retrieving the URL from the xmlHTTPrequest data... or is there? Any other suggestions? Another list to post to? TIA court3nay From court3nay at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 04:35:52 2005 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:35:52 +1100 Subject: [thelist] Re: XMLhttpRequest, javascript arrays? [SOLVED] In-Reply-To: <4b430c8f05031723532dd58315@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b430c8f05031723532dd58315@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b430c8f05031802355ca934a8@mail.gmail.com> Well, I solved the problem, with a little help from callbacks, and a kickstart from http://www.cabezal.com/blog/archives/000607.shtml Here's the code, which enables you to queue up ajax requests. I'm still open to neater solutions.. the ajax code is a little hacked-up, and its untested in everything except ffx1 function xmlLoad(url, obj, func) { if (!url) return false; if (window.XMLHttpRequest) var http = new XMLHttpRequest(); else if (window.ActiveXObject) try { http = new ActiveXObject("Msxml2.XMLHTTP"); } catch(e) { http = new ActiveXObject("Microsoft.XMLHTTP"); } if (!http) return false; if (func) http.onreadystatechange = function() { if (http.readyState != 4) return; func(obj, http.responseText); }; http.open('GET', url, true); http.send(null); // probably wants to be http.send() in IE if (func) {} else return http.responseText; return false; } Then to call it from the form submitter, you go function formsubmit(frm) { url = frm.action; // also, you can convert POSTs to GET here. thetable = getParent(frm, 'table'); // navigate up the foodchain lastrow = thetable.rows[thetable.rows.length-1]; // get last row .. // add form data to last row here xmlLoad(url, lastrow.cells[0], function(ob,tx) { ob.innerHTML = tx; }); // set the first cell as the response from the server (in this case an image) } ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Hi all, I'm (bravely) building a data-entry app (in Rails, heh) that uses xmlHttpRequest to send the form data asynchronously to the server (it also degrades without javascript). The code works something like this: -Data is in a table with 3 columns - User enters data in a form field at the end of the table - Javascript intercepts form.onsubmit, appends a new row to the existing data with the text from the form. - Javascript sends xmlHttpRequest to a controller, which adds it to the db. So the process is quite fast for the user (immediate in fact) and there's no waiting around for the database (inserts being quite slow). If there's an error, it uses a css popup to alert the user. If the insert is successful, it changes a little icon next to the item. [x] [ Item name ] [ $4.50 ] [x] [ Other Item name ] [ $3.25 ] [ ] [ New item name ] [ $2.50 ] [ (form field ] [ (form field) ] [Submit] Here's the problem: I store the 'current row' as a global var (eek). If the user adds a few rows quickly, it can't keep up with the icon changes. javascript: var req; var cur; function XMLreq(url, target) { cur = target; if (window.XMLHttpRequest) { req = new XMLHttpRequest(); ... etc. } function processReqChange() { if (req.readyState == 4 && req.status == 200) { cur.innerHTML += req.responseText; } } So maybe if I use associative arrays like cur[url] = target; then on processReqChange use cur[url].innerHTML = req.responseText However, there's no way of retrieving the URL from the xmlHTTPrequest data... or is there? Any other suggestions? Another list to post to? TIA court3nay From John.Brooking at sappi.com Fri Mar 18 05:48:00 2005 From: John.Brooking at sappi.com (Brooking, John) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 06:48:00 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Sorting 2D array in PHP Message-ID: <7470E917C11D7241A35D959035561471049E367A@cdfnexc7.NA.Sappi.com> I'm finally taking the plunge and learning PHP. I'm currently trying to figure out the easiest way to sort a database-type 2D array, such as: $fruit = array( array( "name" => "pear" , "color" => "green" , "texture" => "squishy" ) , array( "name" => "apple" , "color" => "red" , "texture" => "crunchy" ), , array( "name" => "banana" , "color" => "yellow" , "texture" => "firm" ), ); I've been looking at the PHP array functions, and the closest I find is array_multisort, but that seems to require that you transpose your arrow to be sets of columns rather than sets of rows, and that seems very counter-intuitive and inconvenient. What I want is something where I can pass the $fruit array, and say sort each sub-array by a list of their keys, something like: mySort( $fruit, array( "name", "-color" )). (I'm proposing that a leading "-" would mean descending.) I would want this to re-order the outer array integer keys so that $fruit[0] is the apple array, $fruit[1] is the banana array, and $fruit[2] is the pear array. Barring that, if I were in Perl, I would just call the Perl sort function and pass my own comparison function pointer. Does PHP have such a mechanism? I haven't found it, if it does. Any ideas would be appreciated. - John This message may contain information which is private, privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity named in the message. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender thereof and destroy / delete the message. Neither the sender nor Sappi Limited (including its subsidiaries and associated companies) shall incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly from accessing any of the attached files which may contain a virus or the like. From kris at midtempo.net Fri Mar 18 06:06:06 2005 From: kris at midtempo.net (kris burford) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:06:06 +0000 Subject: [thelist] Sorting 2D array in PHP In-Reply-To: <7470E917C11D7241A35D959035561471049E367A@cdfnexc7.NA.Sappi.com> References: <7470E917C11D7241A35D959035561471049E367A@cdfnexc7.NA.Sappi.com> Message-ID: <423AC42E.3020301@midtempo.net> John wrote: >I'm finally taking the plunge and learning PHP. I'm currently trying to figure out the easiest way to sort a database-type 2D array > did this last week and eventually got the code from the php site. this worked well for me. hth kris $first) { $alpha = $first; $omega = $last; $key_alpha = $keys[$alpha]; $key_omega = $keys[$omega]; $guess = $array[$key_alpha][$column]; while($omega >= $alpha) { if($order == 'SORT_ASC') { while($array[$key_alpha][$column] < $guess) {$alpha++; $key_alpha = $keys[$alpha]; } while($array[$key_omega][$column] > $guess) {$omega--; $key_omega = $keys[$omega]; } } else { while($array[$key_alpha][$column] > $guess) {$alpha++; $key_alpha = $keys[$alpha]; } while($array[$key_omega][$column] < $guess) {$omega--; $key_omega = $keys[$omega]; } } if($alpha > $omega) break; $temporary = $array[$key_alpha]; $array[$key_alpha] = $array[$key_omega]; $alpha++; $key_alpha = $keys[$alpha]; $array[$key_omega] = $temporary; $omega--; $key_omega = $keys[$omega]; } array_qsort ($array, $column, $order, $first, $omega); array_qsort ($array, $column, $order, $alpha, $last); } } return $array; } ?> From info at internetvraagbaak.nl Fri Mar 18 06:05:24 2005 From: info at internetvraagbaak.nl (Jeroen Wijers) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:05:24 +0100 Subject: [thelist] multiple calenders/ "agenda's" References: <7470E917C11D7241A35D959035561471049E367A@cdfnexc7.NA.Sappi.com> Message-ID: <000c01c52bb2$c3fda440$0501a8c0@cartesiapvek83> Before we start writing our own code maybe some one on thus list knows a good application.. We are going to build a calender/agenda system where visitor can make appointments, view events etc... but then not for one company.. but for different separate companies en practises.... So they all should have their own "administration" backend.... Maybe even with a clients ticket system for sending mail back and forth through the website.... But i think these are more probable separate systems we just need to connect somehow Preferable ( if that is the right word ;-) ) written in php with mysql dbase for linux .... what else .... ;-) Thank you! and Well..... Thank God or your boss ;-) it is friday. Jeroen From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Fri Mar 18 06:23:14 2005 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 06:23:14 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Those damnable pop-ups Message-ID: Good morning, I have managed to catch one of those dreaded "create pop-ups even though IE is not running" virus'/spyware things. This started yesterday and I have managed to reduce the number and frequency of the pop-ups by running SpyBot S&E, Ad-Aware, and M$'s new AntiSpyware thing multiple times. However, I am still getting some pop-ups (there is one now and the only thing running is Outlook) and cannot seem to find a way to fix. I have Googled and Yahoo'd and tweaked the registry until I am blue in the face. Does anyone know of other things I can do to eliminate this shy of re-installing everything? Thanks! From dcsquare at myrealbox.com Fri Mar 18 06:45:53 2005 From: dcsquare at myrealbox.com (Dan CRACIUN) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:45:53 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Those damnable pop-ups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <423ACD81.7030404@myrealbox.com> First of all disable the messenger service. After that get X-Setup Pro (http://www.x-setup.net). In there you'll find under "Virtual Paranoia" :) the hijacker places and will be (hopefully) able to get rid of the rat. Cheers, Dan CRACIUN Jay Blanchard wrote: >Good morning, > >I have managed to catch one of those dreaded "create pop-ups even though >IE is not running" virus'/spyware things. This started yesterday and I >have managed to reduce the number and frequency of the pop-ups by >running SpyBot S&E, Ad-Aware, and M$'s new AntiSpyware thing multiple >times. However, I am still getting some pop-ups (there is one now and >the only thing running is Outlook) and cannot seem to find a way to fix. >I have Googled and Yahoo'd and tweaked the registry until I am blue in >the face. > >Does anyone know of other things I can do to eliminate this shy of >re-installing everything? > >Thanks! > > From bmcintyre at issgroup.net Fri Mar 18 07:20:21 2005 From: bmcintyre at issgroup.net (Bruce McIntyre) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:20:21 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Those damnable pop-ups Message-ID: <1A3C566B2FE47042A46539E6B9CC2D7901A06768@dc1.mds_tech.issgroup.net> Dump-disable Microsoft Messanger... That's what it's using (and when you load Outlook, it starts MSM -- Bruce A. McIntyre ISS Group (http://www.issgroup.net) Shaping Visions into Solutions bmcintyre at issgroup.net V: 215.942.4718 F: 215.942.4962 -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Jay Blanchard Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 7:23 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Those damnable pop-ups Good morning, I have managed to catch one of those dreaded "create pop-ups even though IE is not running" virus'/spyware things. This started yesterday and I have managed to reduce the number and frequency of the pop-ups by running SpyBot S&E, Ad-Aware, and M$'s new AntiSpyware thing multiple times. However, I am still getting some pop-ups (there is one now and the only thing running is Outlook) and cannot seem to find a way to fix. I have Googled and Yahoo'd and tweaked the registry until I am blue in the face. Does anyone know of other things I can do to eliminate this shy of re-installing everything? Thanks! -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From joshua at waetech.com Fri Mar 18 07:30:47 2005 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:30:47 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Re: XMLhttpRequest, javascript arrays? [SOLVED] In-Reply-To: <4b430c8f05031802355ca934a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Courtenay > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 5:36 AM > if (!http) return false; Courtenay, (Not having seen the rest of the code) shouldn't this line return true instead of false? <><><><><><><><><><> Joshua Olson Web Application Engineer WAE Tech Inc. http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ 706.210.0168 From joshua at waetech.com Fri Mar 18 07:33:55 2005 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:33:55 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Re: XMLhttpRequest, javascript arrays? [SOLVED] In-Reply-To: <4b430c8f05031802355ca934a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > From: Courtenay > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 5:36 AM > if (!http) return false; I'm obviously not thinking straight this morning. The rest of the code IS in the post. FCK Editor is a decent in-browser text editor. It is one of the best available that doesn't rely on a plug-in. The current version has some memory leak issues in IE/Win, but otherwise it's great! http://www.fckeditor.net/ <><><><><><><><><><> Joshua Olson Web Application Engineer WAE Tech Inc. http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ 706.210.0168 From chuck at project27.com Fri Mar 18 07:40:54 2005 From: chuck at project27.com (Chuck Gartland) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:40:54 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Spdiderzilla Substitute In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I just upgraded to Firefox 1.01 (on w2k) and the Spiderzilla > [1] extension doesn't seem to be compatible with it. > I installed Spiderzilla after updating to FF 1.01 and it is working (on XP sp2). Perhaps you could try removing and reinstalling the extension. Regards, Chuck Gartland Communications Director Environmental Technology, Inc. South Bend, Indiana Tel:574 233-1202 227 chuck at networketi.com http://www.networketi.com From juha.suni at ilmiantajat.fi Fri Mar 18 07:35:53 2005 From: juha.suni at ilmiantajat.fi (Juha Suni) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:35:53 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Sorting 2D array in PHP References: <7470E917C11D7241A35D959035561471049E367A@cdfnexc7.NA.Sappi.com> Message-ID: <013401c52bbf$686a6c00$3300a8c0@tavutykki> Brooking, John wrote: > Barring that, if I were in Perl, I would just call the Perl sort > function and pass my own comparison function pointer. Does PHP have > such a mechanism? I haven't found it, if it does. Yes it does, usort(). See: http://www.php.net/usort HTH -- Suni From raskenbo at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 08:35:31 2005 From: raskenbo at gmail.com (raskenbo) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:35:31 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Spdiderzilla Substitute In-Reply-To: <423adc57.6354b169.1bc6.ffff8c80SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> References: <423adc57.6354b169.1bc6.ffff8c80SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:40:54 -0500, Chuck Gartland wrote: > > I just upgraded to Firefox 1.01 (on w2k) and the Spiderzilla > > [1] extension doesn't seem to be compatible with it. > > > > I installed Spiderzilla after updating to FF 1.01 and it is working (on XP > sp2). Perhaps you could try removing and reinstalling the extension. I'm such a goof. The "download" and "install" links on the spiderzilla site weren't working for me. So, I copied the link location directly into my browser's address bar and... magic. Thanks! Ken Chase Freelance Web Design http://www.kenchase.com From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Fri Mar 18 09:16:04 2005 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:16:04 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Those damnable pop-ups Message-ID: [snip] Dump-disable Microsoft Messanger... That's what it's using (and when you load Outlook, it starts MSM [/snip] That helped a lot. However, I am still getting an occasional pop-up, perhaps every five minutes or so. I have thrown several malware/spyware/av apps at it all morning, to no avail. Also, if I try to start the machine in safe mode it hangs... From norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com Fri Mar 18 09:42:27 2005 From: norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com (Norman Bunn) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 10:42:27 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Those damnable pop-ups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <423AF6E3.3000608@craftedsolutions.com> Time to try hijackthis. http://www.tomcoyote.org/hjt/ Use the forums at http://forums.tomcoyote.org/ to post your log and get help. I used this on a friends PC that had 5000 virus infected files and 2000 spyware/adware hits. When done, the machine ran fine and I did not have to re-format the disk. Norman --- Norman W. Bunn norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com 803.405.1008 ---------------------------------------------- www.CraftedSolutions.com Crafted Solutions, Inc. Web Design & Development Web Site Hosting & Custom Solutions "Get the results the Internet promises; get the 'Net Result' from Crafted Solutions!" ---------------------------------------------- Jay Blanchard wrote: >[snip] >Dump-disable Microsoft Messanger... That's what it's using (and when you >load Outlook, it starts MSM >[/snip] > >That helped a lot. However, I am still getting an occasional pop-up, >perhaps every five minutes or so. I have thrown several >malware/spyware/av apps at it all morning, to no avail. Also, if I try >to start the machine in safe mode it hangs... > > From phparch at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 10:58:28 2005 From: phparch at gmail.com (kerkness) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:58:28 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Sorting 2D array in PHP In-Reply-To: <013401c52bbf$686a6c00$3300a8c0@tavutykki> References: <7470E917C11D7241A35D959035561471049E367A@cdfnexc7.NA.Sappi.com> <013401c52bbf$686a6c00$3300a8c0@tavutykki> Message-ID: <38c64a3f05031808581f483a05@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:35:53 +0200, Juha Suni wrote: > Brooking, John wrote: > > Barring that, if I were in Perl, I would just call the Perl sort > > function and pass my own comparison function pointer. Does PHP have > > such a mechanism? I haven't found it, if it does. > > Yes it does, usort(). See: > http://www.php.net/usort How can I use usort() so that my comparison function can be a method of the class file? I would like to do something like this... class fruityClass { var $fruit = array(); function getFruit(){ usort($this->fruit, "cmpFruit"); return $this->fruit; } function cmpFruit($a,$b){ if ($a['name'] == $b['name']) { return 0; } return ($a['name'] < $b['name']) ? -1 : 1; } } This example doesn't work, in fact I can't even get an error message out of it. I've had to move cmpFruit out side of the class and declare it as a normal function. Which to me seems like a sloppy approach. Anyone have a better idea? From swehren at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 10:59:09 2005 From: swehren at gmail.com (Scott Wehrenberg) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 10:59:09 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Browser Based WYSIWYG Editors In-Reply-To: <423ad96a.1d997418.1bc6.ffff8889SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> References: <4b430c8f05031802355ca934a8@mail.gmail.com> <423ad96a.1d997418.1bc6.ffff8889SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3fb252250503180859ec3f315@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:33:55 -0500, Joshua Olson wrote: > FCK Editor is a decent in-browser text editor. It is one of the best > available that doesn't rely on a plug-in. The current version has some > memory leak issues in IE/Win, but otherwise it's great! Since you brought this up, I'd be intrested in hearing opinions on the current in-browser WYSIWG editors out there. I've been looking at a few for use in building a simple CMS for a couple of projects I'm working on. The main features I'm interested in, on top of the basic editing functionality, roughly in order of importance to me, are: 1) Cross-browser: at a bear minimum it must support IE, Firefox. Opera, Safari, and whatever else would be nice. 2) Free - It has to be free both as in beer and open source. 3) Ability to use an existing stylesheet - TinyMCE does this nicely. All available styles are put in a nice select box. 4) Clean Markup - It doesn't HAVE to produce valid XHTML but please don't make me clean up completely littered code. So looking at those my short list is: 1) TinyMCE - tinymce.moxiecode.com - Nice set up features, I really like the CSS features they've tied in, easy integration to the site. The markup is so-so in my opinion but it's not too hard to limit what gets produced by restricting the buttons in the advanced theme and just offering CSS formatting to users. The current version seems to be a little shaky as they've added a bunch of translation support. Mambo appears to be using TinyMCE by default which is a plus. 2) FCKeditor - http://www.fckeditor.net/ - Look very similar to TinyMCE in functionality and implementation. The documentation looks like it could use some expansion. Generated code looks a little cleaner. 3) HTMLArea - http://www.dynarch.com/projects/htmlarea/ - From what I've read there appears to be some confusion on where this project is going. It appears to be maintained for now. It doesn't appear to have any suport for existing stylesheets. 4) SPAW - http://www.solmetra.com/en/disp.php/en_products/en_spaw/en_spaw_intro - Looks solid, code output seems to be great, supports existing stylesheets. My two concerns here are, gecko support is till in beta (but seems to work great to me) and it doesn't seem nearly as community driven as other projects. Those are the main projects I'm looking at. Any other suggestions, or opinions on those I've listed? From escalonab at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 11:01:08 2005 From: escalonab at gmail.com (Bernardo Escalona) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:01:08 -0600 Subject: [thelist] RE: DHTML Test and Critique In-Reply-To: <423ab22f.7f3d2fd9.7c69.1e4cSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> References: <423ab22f.7f3d2fd9.7c69.1e4cSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> Message-ID: <12d1e091050318090156cc2f5f@mail.gmail.com> Tony: Didn't take a look at the code but I do have a suggestion functionality-wise. Would be nice if it worked by clicking on the '+' and '-' icons aswell as the actual test. My first instinct was to click on the + icons to see the sub-options and i was about to think that it didnt work until i tried clicking on the text. > I was wondering if anyone could test and critique a collapsible-menu script > I wrote for a client's site map: > > http://www.tonygrimes.com/collapsible_menu.html > > It's inspired by Dave Lindquist's menus: > > http://www.gazingus.org/html/menuExpandable.html > > Hopefully, it degrades gracefully. I've only tested Safari/Mac, > Firefox1/Netscape7/Mac IE5/Mac and IE6/PC. > > I'm not really familiar with Javascript and browser compatibility issues (I > come from a PHP background) so I'm open to suggestions on how to improve it. > I'd especially like to hear ideas on how to cut down code size, easier ways > to do manipulate the DOM, etc. > > Some issues I've found so far: > > - The "show/hide all" links don't work in Safari. Can't figure out why. > > - the plus/minus list images don't initially show in Safari and Mozilla > (Mac), or they don't draw correctly. Maybe I should declare the styles > explicitly instead of changing the class name? > > - My use of splice() probably excludes some modern-ish browsers (IE5/PC?). > Is there a better way of removing elements from an array. > > - Not really an issue, but I chose to use firstChild instead of innerHTML > when copying the h3 content into a link. Is there a DOM-friendly way to copy > all child/grandchild nodes into a new element? If not, I think I'll go with > innerHTML eventually. > > - Question: does Javascript have an inArray() method like PHP's in_array()? > I just made my own for now. > > Any input would be greatly appreciated. > > TIA > > Tony > -- ___________________________________________ Bernardo Escalona Espinosa tel: 56 22 85 23 cel: 55 18 56 74 73 http://www.bernsonline.com/ From ebone+thelist at dotsandloops.net Fri Mar 18 11:00:51 2005 From: ebone+thelist at dotsandloops.net (e-head) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:00:51 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Odd CSS selection loophole ... In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20050317001910.02393dd8@mx.delime.com> References: <4.2.0.58.20050316191547.00a96a40@mx.delime.com> <20050316190049.GU1175@DotsAndLoops.net> <4.2.0.58.20050316191547.00a96a40@mx.delime.com> <4.2.0.58.20050317001910.02393dd8@mx.delime.com> Message-ID: <20050318170051.GZ1175@DotsAndLoops.net> On 03/17/05 00:20 or thereabouts, M. Seyon scribbled: > Message from e-head (3/16/2005 11:51 PM) > >On 03/16/05 19:18 or thereabouts, M. Seyon scribbled: > > > >Ohh, it can definetly be done using another method ... right now I have a > >class that I add all     tags too that fit this criteria (have a child > > element). > > This doesn't really say *what you want to do*. It's never nice to gripe and > moan about something not working the way you want and then be cryptic about > what you wanted it to do in the first place. > My original post could hardly be considered "griping and moaning", I was merely pointing out some deficiences in the CSS selection rules. Besides, why does it matter *what* I want to do ? It makes no difference. If it makes you happy, this is what I want to do: Give all
    tags, that have a child element a 10px blue border. How do I go about selecting these
    tags without resorting to using a class ? From stanson at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 11:17:07 2005 From: stanson at gmail.com (Theodore Serbinski) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:17:07 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Browser Based WYSIWYG Editors In-Reply-To: <3fb252250503180859ec3f315@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b430c8f05031802355ca934a8@mail.gmail.com> <423ad96a.1d997418.1bc6.ffff8889SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> <3fb252250503180859ec3f315@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > 3) HTMLArea - http://www.dynarch.com/projects/htmlarea/ - From what > I've read there appears to be some confusion on where this project is > going. It appears to be maintained for now. It doesn't appear to have > any suport for existing stylesheets. HTMLArea will now be known as Xinha and development is looking positive: http://xinha.gogo.co.nz/cgi-bin/trac.cgi Be interesting to see what this new Xinha version looks like, the beta builds look interesting. ted From discuss at alphanumeric.cz Fri Mar 18 11:21:52 2005 From: discuss at alphanumeric.cz (Jan Brasna) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:21:52 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Browser Based WYSIWYG Editors In-Reply-To: <3fb252250503180859ec3f315@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b430c8f05031802355ca934a8@mail.gmail.com> <423ad96a.1d997418.1bc6.ffff8889SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> <3fb252250503180859ec3f315@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <423B0E30.4060308@alphanumeric.cz> > 1) Cross-browser: [...] Opera, [...] I'm afraid none of them works in Opera (however *not sure*). -- Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com From swehren at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 11:35:20 2005 From: swehren at gmail.com (Scott Wehrenberg) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:35:20 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Browser Based WYSIWYG Editors In-Reply-To: References: <4b430c8f05031802355ca934a8@mail.gmail.com> <423ad96a.1d997418.1bc6.ffff8889SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> <3fb252250503180859ec3f315@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3fb2522505031809351c3c4b77@mail.gmail.com> I saw Xinha and it looks good. There definitely seems to be some bitterness about the fork and what is it's relation the other fork that I linked to? I preferred the other one I linked to mainly because it seemed to produce a little cleaner code than xinha maybe they're completely different forks at this point? On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:17:07 -0500, Theodore Serbinski wrote: > HTMLArea will now be known as Xinha and development is looking positive: > > http://xinha.gogo.co.nz/cgi-bin/trac.cgi From g1notami at zoominternet.net Fri Mar 18 11:40:23 2005 From: g1notami at zoominternet.net (D. Bruce Saurer) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:40:23 -0500 Subject: [thelist] OT-transfer files from Win95 to newer Mac Message-ID: <423B1287.4000805@zoominternet.net> I've been asked to help a friend of a client transfer some files from his ancient Win95 box to a newer Mac. I think it's an iMac. Ideally, he'd like file sharing between the two but, transfer of "critical" files is acceptable. I apologize for the lack of info here as I'm not even sure what these "critical" files consist of. At one time I used Dave to connect an OS9 era laptop to a Win98/2000 work group. Is this possible with Win 95? Any suggestions would be most welcome. TIA (tip to follow) -- Bruce g1notami at zoominternet.net From rachell at kingestatewinery.com Fri Mar 18 11:42:55 2005 From: rachell at kingestatewinery.com (Rachell) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:42:55 -0800 Subject: [thelist] .js instead of csshover.htc? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would like to use javascript behaviors instead of csshover.htc to make my submenu's appear (I've heard the csshover is causing a lag time in IE, and they are not showing up correctly in Opera), but the only way I've been able to make it work with js is to put all the navigation into
    's and then toggle the nested
    's visibility. I would much rather continue using the
  • but have been unable to figure out a way to make it work using js. Does anyone know how this can be done? The page is at: background-color: http://www.kingestate.com/newdesign/Domaine/ Rachell Coe Webmaster King Estate Winery 541-942-9874 Ext: 136 http://www.kingestate.com From lists at onlinetools.org Fri Mar 18 11:42:23 2005 From: lists at onlinetools.org (Chris Heilmann) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:42:23 +0100 (CET) Subject: [thelist] .js instead of csshover.htc? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14432.80.85.75.20.1111167743.squirrel@webmail01.nwu.net> > I would like to use javascript behaviors instead of csshover.htc to make > my > submenu's appear (I've heard the csshover is causing a lag time in IE, and > they are not showing up correctly in Opera), but the only way I've been > able > to make it work with js is to put all the navigation into
    's and then > toggle the nested
    's visibility. I would much rather continue using > the
  • but have been unable to figure out a way to make it work using > js. Have you taken a look at YADM? http://www.onlinetools.org/tools/yadm/ Another menu system is son of suckerfish: http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ -- Chris Heilmann Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com Writing: http://icant.co.uk/ Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/ From stanson at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 11:52:34 2005 From: stanson at gmail.com (Theodore Serbinski) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:52:34 -0500 Subject: [thelist] .js instead of csshover.htc? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Check out the Sons of Suckerfish menu script: http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/ Just create your menu as a list (semantically correct) and go from there. Pretty straightforward to use and very lightweight. ted On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:42:55 -0800, Rachell wrote: > I would like to use javascript behaviors instead of csshover.htc to make my > submenu's appear (I've heard the csshover is causing a lag time in IE, and > they are not showing up correctly in Opera), but the only way I've been able > to make it work with js is to put all the navigation into
    's and then > toggle the nested
    's visibility. I would much rather continue using > the
  • but have been unable to figure out a way to make it work using js. From michele at wizardev.ca Fri Mar 18 12:11:14 2005 From: michele at wizardev.ca (Michele Foster (WizarDev)) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:11:14 -0500 Subject: [thelist] DHTML Test and Critique References: Message-ID: <00d901c52be5$e06ca990$a989fea9@mef> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Grimes" > I was wondering if anyone could test and critique a collapsible-menu script > I wrote for a client's site map: > > http://www.tonygrimes.com/collapsible_menu.html > > It's inspired by Dave Lindquist's menus: > http://www.gazingus.org/html/menuExpandable.html Hi Tony, Seems to be working fine here in IE6, Win2K. I do have one small comment, I expect to be able to click the +/- buttons and have the menu expand/contract. Think Windows Explorer. I noticed that the updated versions from the site you referenced, allows for the +/- to work. Just my 2 cents. Mich From swehren at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 12:17:57 2005 From: swehren at gmail.com (Scott Wehrenberg) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:17:57 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Browser Based WYSIWYG Editors In-Reply-To: <423B0E30.4060308@alphanumeric.cz> References: <4b430c8f05031802355ca934a8@mail.gmail.com> <423ad96a.1d997418.1bc6.ffff8889SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> <3fb252250503180859ec3f315@mail.gmail.com> <423B0E30.4060308@alphanumeric.cz> Message-ID: <3fb252250503181017489487fc@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:21:52 +0100, Jan Brasna wrote: > > 1) Cross-browser: [...] Opera, [...] > > I'm afraid none of them works in Opera (however *not sure*). > True as far as I can tell. The only option I've seen that might work in Opera is flash or java based which I'm not really interested in. From peterl at standingwave.org Fri Mar 18 12:38:42 2005 From: peterl at standingwave.org (Peter Loron) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 10:38:42 -0800 Subject: [thelist] OT-transfer files from Win95 to newer Mac In-Reply-To: <423B1287.4000805@zoominternet.net> References: <423B1287.4000805@zoominternet.net> Message-ID: <423B2032.3020504@standingwave.org> If the PC has a NIC, then you should just be able to connect the machines through a hub/switch (or crossover cable to go direct). Turn on Windows File Sharing on the Mac, and then connect to that share from the PC. Copy away. -Pete D. Bruce Saurer wrote: > I've been asked to help a friend of a client > transfer some files from his ancient Win95 box > to a newer Mac. I think it's an iMac. > Ideally, he'd like file sharing between the two > but, transfer of "critical" files is acceptable. > I apologize for the lack of info here as I'm not > even sure what these "critical" files consist of. > > At one time I used Dave to connect an OS9 era > laptop to a Win98/2000 work group. Is this possible > with Win 95? Any suggestions would be most welcome. > > TIA (tip to follow) From warren at digital-crossroads.com Fri Mar 18 12:54:16 2005 From: warren at digital-crossroads.com (Warren Murray) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:54:16 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Event Monitor Message-ID: <423B23D8.5050405@digital-crossroads.com> Please excuse my innocent on the topic of Java. I have been been challenged to put together a web-based Java application that will monitor a Java application and listen for events that have past. Basically, it's an event monitor. I have search high and low for something similar. Does anyone have an idea of where I can locate something similar to this? Thanks! Warren Murray 404.518.7940 From rachell at kingestatewinery.com Fri Mar 18 12:58:02 2005 From: rachell at kingestatewinery.com (Rachell) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 10:58:02 -0800 Subject: [thelist] .js instead of csshover.htc? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you so much for that Chris! However, it didn't work in Opera (the subnav stayed up all the time.) Rachell Coe Webmaster King Estate Winery 541-942-9874 Ext: 136 http://www.kingestate.com From lists at pinetree.net Fri Mar 18 13:26:58 2005 From: lists at pinetree.net (Oren Levin) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:26:58 -0500 Subject: [thelist] DHTML Test and Critique In-Reply-To: <00d901c52be5$e06ca990$a989fea9@mef> Message-ID: <00e101c52bf0$7537e530$3f471e0a@OLEVINXP> Once I realized that I could not click on the [+] and [-] buttons it worked well (Firefox 1.01 WinXP Pro). Oren ----- Oren Levin, Senior Developer olevin at audible.com, 973.837.2811 "Audible.com ranks among the Web's best services." CNet.com, July 2004 -----Original Message----- From: "Tony Grimes" > I was wondering if anyone could test and critique a collapsible-menu script > I wrote for a client's site map: > > http://www.tonygrimes.com/collapsible_menu.html > > It's inspired by Dave Lindquist's menus: > http://www.gazingus.org/html/menuExpandable.html From fuzzylizard at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 13:30:50 2005 From: fuzzylizard at gmail.com (Chris Johnston) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:30:50 -0500 Subject: [thelist] DHTML Test and Critique In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One small observation, when you click on the expand all button, only the first level menu options change the little + to a -. Any sub menus remain as an +. -- chris johnston www.fuzzylizard.com "For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals and something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination, we learned to talk." Pink Floyd From mwarden at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 13:42:27 2005 From: mwarden at gmail.com (Matt Warden) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:42:27 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Event Monitor In-Reply-To: <423B23D8.5050405@digital-crossroads.com> References: <423B23D8.5050405@digital-crossroads.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:54:16 -0500, Warren Murray wrote: > Please excuse my innocent on the topic of Java. I have been been > challenged to put together a web-based Java application that will > monitor a Java application and listen for events that have past. > Basically, it's an event monitor. I have search high and low for > something similar. Does anyone have an idea of where I can locate > something similar to this? We need more information to help you. The web based app is monitoring a Java app... where is this other Java app and how can it be monitored? -- Matt Warden Miami University Oxford, OH, USA http://mattwarden.com This email proudly and graciously contributes to entropy. From RPringle at aurora-il.org Fri Mar 18 13:51:21 2005 From: RPringle at aurora-il.org (Pringle, Ron) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:51:21 -0600 Subject: [thelist] SQL Query problem with Left Outer Join Message-ID: I'm using Access 2k and VBScript/ASP. I'm querying a number of tables from the same database with the following: SELECT * FROM (((((tbl_event EV LEFT OUTER JOIN tbl_alertDates AD ON EV.eventID = AD.eventID) LEFT OUTER JOIN tbl_newsDates ND ON EV.eventID = ND.eventID) LEFT OUTER JOIN tbl_eventDates ED ON EV.eventID = ED.eventID) LEFT OUTER JOIN tbl_contact C ON EV.eventID = C.eventID) LEFT OUTER JOIN tbl_link L ON EV.eventID = L.eventID) LEFT OUTER JOIN tbl_icon I ON EV.eventType = I.eventType All of the tables have an eventID field in them which is the field they are joined on. The main table, tbl_event, contains the master record of all events, and therefore all eventIDs, no matter if its an event, news item or an alert. The tables tbl_contact and tbl_icon hold required information, and so there is a record in each of them for every single eventID. However, the tbl_link table contains optional information, so there isn't necessarily a matching record for every eventID. The query seems to run fine and retrieve all the records and match them on eventID. However, when I go to retrieve the eventID for any given record, any record that didn't have information in the tbl_link fields fails to display an eventID. The way I understand LEFT OUTER JOINs to work is that it will return ALL records on the left side of the equation, and will append any results from the right side that match the ON conditions. Is that correct? When I do a test run of the query and display all columns retrieved, I end up with multiple columns named eventID (one for each table in the query). Since there are some columns in the tbl_links that are returning NULL when a matching record isn't found, I'm thinking that is where my problem lies. That NULL value is what is being read when I try to write out the contents of the eventID. If that's whats happening, how exactly do I grab records from each of these tables without also creating another eventID column every time? Or is there something else wrong that I'm overlooking? Regards, Ron From hassan at webtuitive.com Fri Mar 18 13:57:34 2005 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:57:34 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Event Monitor In-Reply-To: <423B23D8.5050405@digital-crossroads.com> References: <423B23D8.5050405@digital-crossroads.com> Message-ID: <423B32AE.8040506@webtuitive.com> Warren Murray wrote: > Please excuse my innocent on the topic of Java. I have been been > challenged to put together a web-based Java application that will > monitor a Java application and listen for events that have past. > Basically, it's an event monitor. I have search high and low for > something similar. Wow. high and low used to be crawling with that stuff -- who took it all away? :-) OK, sorry. JMX -- Java Management eXtensions -- is what you're looking for. Here's a short introductory article: :: and if you search for 'JMX' on sourceforge.net, you'll find that there's a few folks ahead of you :-) HTH! -- Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. From warren at digital-crossroads.com Fri Mar 18 14:14:07 2005 From: warren at digital-crossroads.com (Warren Murray) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:14:07 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Event Monitor In-Reply-To: References: <423B23D8.5050405@digital-crossroads.com> Message-ID: <423B368F.1050105@digital-crossroads.com> Matt Warden wrote: >On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:54:16 -0500, Warren Murray > wrote: > > >>Please excuse my innocent on the topic of Java. I have been been >>challenged to put together a web-based Java application that will >>monitor a Java application and listen for events that have past. >>Basically, it's an event monitor. I have search high and low for >>something similar. Does anyone have an idea of where I can locate >>something similar to this? >> >> > >We need more information to help you. > >The web based app is monitoring a Java app... where is this other Java >app and how can it be monitored? > > > > The current Java application is in its infancy stage. The original main application was written in VB6, however, the Event Monitor was done in VB .NET. Here is what's taking place, the system has events that are scheduled to run at certain dates and times based on the events sequence. When the event(s) have come to their date/time to run, the Event Monitor is suppose to sense the event(s) ready to be fired off and push the events into another system. I don't have a clue of where to start to tackle this puppy. I'm a designer, trying to learn Java. Warren 404.518.7940 From hassan at webtuitive.com Fri Mar 18 14:31:58 2005 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:31:58 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Event Monitor In-Reply-To: <423B368F.1050105@digital-crossroads.com> References: <423B23D8.5050405@digital-crossroads.com> <423B368F.1050105@digital-crossroads.com> Message-ID: <423B3ABE.9070109@webtuitive.com> Warren Murray wrote: > Here is what's taking place, the system has events that are scheduled to > run at certain dates and times based on the events sequence. When the > event(s) have come to their date/time to run, the Event Monitor is > suppose to sense the event(s) ready to be fired off and push the events > into another system. Uh, I think there's a terminology problem here. An "Event" occurs, well, when it occurs -- to *anticipate* an Event requires psychic abilities... :-) Sounds to me like you're describing some kind of "scheduler", which is a whole 'nother animal. -- Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. From fuzzylizard at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 14:49:32 2005 From: fuzzylizard at gmail.com (Chris Johnston) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:49:32 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Event Monitor In-Reply-To: <423B3ABE.9070109@webtuitive.com> References: <423B23D8.5050405@digital-crossroads.com> <423B368F.1050105@digital-crossroads.com> <423B3ABE.9070109@webtuitive.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:31:58 -0800, Hassan Schroeder wrote: > Warren Murray wrote: > > > Here is what's taking place, the system has events that are scheduled to > > run at certain dates and times based on the events sequence. When the > > event(s) have come to their date/time to run, the Event Monitor is > > suppose to sense the event(s) ready to be fired off and push the events > > into another system. > > Sounds to me like you're describing some kind of "scheduler", which > is a whole 'nother animal. > And if you are looking for a scheduler then I suggest you take a look at Quartz. http://www.opensymphony.com/quartz/ -- chris johnston www.fuzzylizard.com "For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals and something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination, we learned to talk." Pink Floyd From lists at photokyo.com Fri Mar 18 14:50:09 2005 From: lists at photokyo.com (Christian Anderson) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:50:09 -0700 Subject: [thelist] How do you ping in asp? Message-ID: Hi, I'm making a blog in ASP and I am at the point now where I'm going to set up pinging when new posts are published. How does this work exactly? Do you have to pass some kind of parameters to the sites that accept pings? Chris Christian Anderson ????????????? :: http://www.ckapublishing.com :: MSN / Webcam : platesonyourass at hotmail.com From Brian at hondaswap.com Fri Mar 18 15:05:53 2005 From: Brian at hondaswap.com (Brian Cummiskey) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:05:53 -0500 Subject: [thelist] How do you ping in asp? Message-ID: <423B42B1.8030304@hondaswap.com> Christian Anderson wrote: > Hi, > > I'm making a blog in ASP and I am at the point now where I'm going to set up > pinging when new posts are published. what are you going to ping, and for what purpose? a ping is a "marco - polo" or sonar-like send and return to tell if a machine is responding. that's about it. i don't see how a blog post would have anything to do with it. > > How does this work exactly? Do you have to pass some kind of parameters to > the sites that accept pings? if a machine is connected to the net, it can be pinged. asp, nor any language that i know of off hand has a ping command that does anything but look if there server is available- and for good reason. albeit critical technique for networking, it's pretty worthless for scripting. http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.mysql-ping.php From volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 15:11:51 2005 From: volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?VOLKAN_=C3=96Z=C3=87EL=C4=B0K?=) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 23:11:51 +0200 Subject: [thelist] A question on optimization. In-Reply-To: <423592f3.2ad9a133.3b4d.ffffa4edSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> References: <42356F0C.5010907@doxdesk.com> <423592f3.2ad9a133.3b4d.ffffa4edSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi evolters! First of all thank you for all your input. Secondly sorry for the latency in my reply. This week was a nightmare for me full of "urgent" bug fixes, piles of papes, endless phone calls, sleepless-nights and over-dose of caffeine, plus a surgery in my mouth (not a fill-cavity stuff, a real surgery) and thus spending the whole week as an Apranax-Fort addict :) As per the test results: We tested the page a dozen times on an 56K connection, clearing the temporary internet cache before each test. On the average, the first half (the part before the scripts at the bottom) loaded in 8 seconds, the second half loaded in 8 seconds in the background. Which totals around 16 seconds, which the user "perceives" as 8 seconds, because he is busy with the images and text while the rest of the script loads. In the list below the responses are listed in the order they load into memory. Although during different tests the load order slightly changed (note the comments given with asterisks (*) ) the general trend is pretty predictable. - using defer is another pretty good idea (since most of the audiance will be IE users, why not give them a favor.) Thanks for the tip :) reply to chris : >Yes, but from a maintainability point of view it is a nightmare. HTML can >be parsed and used, mixed HTML and scripts and inline CSS can't be parsed >and reused. there is no single inline script on the page. All the scripts are included in external js files using format. We put our best efforts at least to approximate an unobstrusive, usable, accessible and w3c compliant HTML and CSS. Actually our client requests it, but the reason he requests and the reason we implement it are totally different: He requests it, cuz he has heard it has been a trend, he requests it to use it as a badge of honor. We implement it because we have gained an insight on the real benefits of standards and accessibility. Thanks everyone who struggle on the web for this. imho our hard work will pay off some time and maintanaibility will not be a big issue. Here is a typical test result for the interested: Load order | Size of request body HTML Body | 9.438 Bytes Site Logo | 4.292 Bytes Master Css | 6.666 Bytes Image 1 | 9.225 Bytes Image 2 | 1.979 Bytes Image 3 | 185 Bytes Image 4 | 1.260 Bytes Image 5 | 190 Bytes Image 6 | 177 Bytes Image 7 | 43 Bytes Image 8 | 65 Bytes Image 9 | 29.836 Bytes script 1 | 804 Bytes * just this script is loaded out of order. Image 10 | 1.490 Bytes Image 11 | 299 Bytes Image 12 | 1.097 Bytes Image 13 | 6.757 Bytes Image 14 | 1.182 Bytes -------------------------- * at this point scripts start loading one after another. (up to this part takes more or less 8 seconds) script 2 | 3.697 Bytes * all the scripts are loaded script 3 | 1.506 Bytes * in the order they appear in code script 4 | 629 Bytes * most of the scripts that are at script 5 | 3.141 Bytes * the end of the source code loaded script 6 | 1.723 Bytes * almost after everything has loaded. script 7 | 2.755 Bytes script 8 | 10.380 Bytes script 9 | 712 Bytes script 10 | 12.695 Bytes script 11 | 4.112 Bytes script 12 | 842 Bytes script 13 | 3.147 Bytes script 14 | 2.378 Bytes script 15 | 1.895 Bytes script 16 | 1.611 Bytes script 17 | 9.892 Bytes script 18 | 892 Bytes script 19 | 584 Bytes script 20 | 2.082 Bytes script 21 | 2.168 Bytes script 22 | 1.131 Bytes Image 15 | 1.470 Bytes * this image is an exception as well * actually it appears far above in the source code. Cheers, Volkan. __________________________________________________________________ On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:20:58 -0500, Joshua Olson wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Andrew Clover > > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 6:02 AM > > > ... you can give the > > browser a hint that it doesn't need to load the whole script before > > continuing to parse the page (and load its images): > > > > > > > > However I believe the only browser to take advantage of this > > possibility (AFAIK) is IE/Win. > > As Andrew pointed out, using defer is a great way to force a script to be > loaded only after the page load is complete. Compatibility across browsers > is not guaranteed, however. You can implement your own sort of "defer" by > programmatically (through DOM) adding a script block to the head from the > body's onload handler. > > Use the tenets of a Tip provided by Keith Gaughan for reference: > > http://lists.evolt.org/harvest/detail.cgi?id=6257 > > Best of luck, > > <><><><><><><><><><> > Joshua Olson > Web Application Engineer > WAE Tech Inc. > http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ > 706.210.0168 > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 15:27:46 2005 From: volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?VOLKAN_=C3=96Z=C3=87EL=C4=B0K?=) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 23:27:46 +0200 Subject: [thelist] How do you ping in asp? In-Reply-To: <423b40d3.01f40daa.5521.ffffacf8SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> References: <423b40d3.01f40daa.5521.ffffacf8SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> Message-ID: Christian, Web is a disconnected medium. Once the request is sent to client there is no means of pinging the server back. As a solution: You can use client site code and an iframe that meta-refreshes itself and then re-load the owner page. If you do not like the meta approach, you can use setInterval js method in your main page to load iframe after a certain timeout. AFAIK, There are constructs in java which try to keep connection open (pushlets is one of them), but I am dubious about their efficiency/effectiveness. I am not sure, whether the pushlet logic can be constructed in ASP Classic or ASP.Net either. None the less, imho, you had better re-consider your design specs.What you try to do is to change the nature of the web (web is a disconnected medium as I said a priori) If it is ultimately necessary for you to ping the server, i think the IFRAME approach will best suit your needs. HTH, Cheers, Volkan. On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:50:09 -0700, Christian Anderson wrote: > Hi, > > I'm making a blog in ASP and I am at the point now where I'm going to set up > pinging when new posts are published. > > How does this work exactly? Do you have to pass some kind of parameters to > the sites that accept pings? > > Chris > > Christian Anderson ???????????? > :: http://www.ckapublishing.com > :: MSN / Webcam : > platesonyourass at hotmail.com > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From peter at easylistbox.com Fri Mar 18 15:33:22 2005 From: peter at easylistbox.com (Peter Brunone (EasyListBox.com)) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:33:22 -0700 Subject: [thelist] How do you ping in asp? Message-ID: <9d3ce93088e545c8a691e303980f2499@easylistbox.com> ???Assuming that you want to do this to verify the sender's IP address (which might make sense, depending on your goal), you can use any number of free components for this purpose.? I recommend ASPPing, available from ServerObjects.com: http://serverobjects.com/products.htm#free ???You can also get components that let you access the command line (i.e. the DOS prompt) from which you can then issue any commands that you would normally use from there. Cheers, Peter From: VOLKAN ?Z?ELIK volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com Christian, Web is a disconnected medium. Once the request is sent to client there is no means of pinging the server back. As a solution: You can use client site code and an iframe that meta-refreshes itself and then re-load the owner page. If you do not like the meta approach, you can use setInterval js method in your main page to load iframe after a certain timeout. AFAIK, There are constructs in java which try to keep connection open (pushlets is one of them), but I am dubious about their efficiency/effectiveness. I am not sure, whether the pushlet logic can be constructed in ASP Classic or ASP.Net either. None the less, imho, you had better re-consider your design specs.What you try to do is to change the nature of the web (web is a disconnected medium as I said a priori) If it is ultimately necessary for you to ping the server, i think the IFRAME approach will best suit your needs. HTH, Cheers, Volkan. On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:50:09 -0700, Christian Anderson wrote: > Hi, > > I'm making a blog in ASP and I am at the point now where I'm going to set up > pinging when new posts are published. > > How does this work exactly? Do you have to pass some kind of parameters to > the sites that accept pings? > > Chris > > Christian Anderson ???????????? > :: http://www.ckapublishing.com > :: MSN / Webcam : > platesonyourass at hotmail.com From joel at spinhead.com Fri Mar 18 15:43:29 2005 From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:43:29 -0800 Subject: command line access in ASP (was RE: [thelist] How do you ping in asp?) Message-ID: <72E9FAA171D63B48AAC707C72900E6B461705C@ireland.spinhead.com> > ???You can also get components that let you access the > command line (i.e. the DOS prompt) from which you can then > issue any commands that you would normally use from there. You can access the command line with VBScript. No components necessary. Makes lots of automation scripting for our legacy systems much nicer. joel From juan.cataldo at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 15:42:16 2005 From: juan.cataldo at gmail.com (Juan Cataldo) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 17:42:16 -0400 Subject: [thelist] XMLhttpRequest, javascript arrays? In-Reply-To: <4b430c8f05031723532dd58315@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b430c8f05031723532dd58315@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:53:27 +1100, Courtenay wrote: > Here's the problem: I store the 'current row' as a global var (eek). > If the user adds a few rows quickly, it can't keep up with the icon > changes. So far, I disable the triggering control when sending the request, and enable it back after processing the response. Thus, there is always only one request/response pair on the line. I realize maybe this won't be a real solution for your problem, but may help on similar scenarios. -- Juan M. Cataldo From hassan at webtuitive.com Fri Mar 18 15:44:39 2005 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:44:39 -0800 Subject: [thelist] How do you ping in asp? In-Reply-To: <200503182057.j2IKvuBS020377@server1.webtuitive.com> References: <200503182057.j2IKvuBS020377@server1.webtuitive.com> Message-ID: <423B4BC7.4030405@webtuitive.com> Christian Anderson wrote: > I'm making a blog in ASP and I am at the point now where I'm going to set up > pinging when new posts are published. > > How does this work exactly? Do you have to pass some kind of parameters to > the sites that accept pings? I haven't played with blogs much, and don't use ASP, but perhaps this will help, as well as clarify for those who boat.missed("totally") ;-) http://www.sixapart.com/movabletype/docs/mttrackback -- Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. From manuel.gonzalez.noriega at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 15:45:35 2005 From: manuel.gonzalez.noriega at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Manuel_Gonz=E1lez_Noriega?=) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 22:45:35 +0100 Subject: [thelist] How do you ping in asp? In-Reply-To: <423b40d3.5620515a.4d06.2388SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> References: <423b40d3.5620515a.4d06.2388SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:50:09 -0700, Christian Anderson wrote: > Hi, > > I'm making a blog in ASP and I am at the point now where I'm going to set up > pinging when new posts are published. > > How does this work exactly? Do you have to pass some kind of parameters to > the sites that accept pings? > A ping is usually just a POST/GET request you must issue to a certain endpoint bringing certain parameters (blog url / blog name). It should be trivial to do in ASP. The exact details of the ping depend on the service you're pinging. I recommend you take a look at ping-o-matic. It has precise instructions and has comprehensive info on the subject. http://pingomatic.com/about/ Good luck :) -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplel?gica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicaci?n en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ?Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ From rob.smith at THERMON.com Fri Mar 18 15:51:22 2005 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:51:22 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Proceed to Checkout - Authorize.net Question Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D289@smtmb.tmc.local> >> I suppose I just need to re-RTFM, >OK :-) I did over some great Asian food last night. I determined that I needed to set my gears in motion to POST the information back to my designated receipt page. And I found out that everything I send to Authorize.net is echoed back to me. The manual even was kind enough to let me or remind me what those fields where. Basically, on the receipt page, I have: I'm going to have a friend test this out tonight with me. Authorize.net said I can't use my own card on my own business. Can anyone confirm that I'm doing this right? Rob From evoltlist at delime.com Fri Mar 18 15:31:07 2005 From: evoltlist at delime.com (M. Seyon) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 17:31:07 -0400 Subject: [thelist] How do you ping in asp? In-Reply-To: <423B42B1.8030304@hondaswap.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20050318173008.02299180@mx.delime.com> Message from Brian Cummiskey (3/18/2005 05:05 PM) >Christian Anderson wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I'm making a blog in ASP and I am at the point now where I'm going to > set up > > pinging when new posts are published. > >what are you going to ping, and for what purpose? > >a ping is a "marco - polo" or sonar-like send and return to tell if a >machine is responding. that's about it. i don't see how a blog post >would have anything to do with it. I think Christian may be referring to trackback pings? http://www.movabletype.org/trackback/beginners/ http://www.cruftbox.com/cruft/docs/trackback.html Hopefully those two links will help answer the question too. regards. -marc -- Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com http://www.playyuhself.com/ From lists at photokyo.com Fri Mar 18 15:51:09 2005 From: lists at photokyo.com (Christian Anderson) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:51:09 -0700 Subject: [thelist] How do you ping in asp? In-Reply-To: <9d3ce93088e545c8a691e303980f2499@easylistbox.com> Message-ID: Sorry everyone, Let me be a little more clear here. I don't want to ping another computer to see if its online, or the lag or whatever, I want to ping one of the many blog servers that keep track of when blogs have been updated. When I ping the server, it lets it know that I updated my blog, and it then posts the updated information on its server. Have a look at http://pingomatic.com/about/ for more information about the pinging that I'm talking about. Chris Christian Anderson ????????????? :: http://www.ckapublishing.com :: MSN / Webcam : platesonyourass at hotmail.com From mattias at inreach.com Fri Mar 18 15:51:21 2005 From: mattias at inreach.com (Mattias Thorslund) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:51:21 -0800 Subject: [thelist] How do you ping in asp? In-Reply-To: <200503182057.j2IKvUZr012789@spam-3.inreach.com> References: <200503182057.j2IKvUZr012789@spam-3.inreach.com> Message-ID: <423B4D59.1040004@inreach.com> I think several respondents have misunderstood: As I understand it, "ping" is also blog-speak for automated notifications that a blog site has been updated. Check out http://pingomatic.com/. Several more links from there. Good luck! /Mattias Christian Anderson wrote: >Hi, > >I'm making a blog in ASP and I am at the point now where I'm going to set up >pinging when new posts are published. > >How does this work exactly? Do you have to pass some kind of parameters to >the sites that accept pings? > >Chris > >Christian Anderson ????????????? >:: http://www.ckapublishing.com >:: MSN / Webcam : >platesonyourass at hotmail.com > > > -- More views at http://www.thorslund.us From mccreath at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 16:01:40 2005 From: mccreath at gmail.com (David McCreath) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:01:40 -0900 Subject: [thelist] How do you ping in asp? In-Reply-To: <423b40cc.095a8390.05a5.ffff9f1fSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> References: <423b40cc.095a8390.05a5.ffff9f1fSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> Message-ID: <51b07dc605031814016d62e56f@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:50:09 -0700, Christian Anderson wrote: > I'm making a blog in ASP and I am at the point now where I'm going to set up > pinging when new posts are published. Hi, Christian - If you're talking about *trackback* pinging, you might start here: http://www.wwwcoder.com/main/parentid/262/site/2344/68/default.aspx You don't specify whether you're working ASP.NET or 3.0, so the above might not be super-helpful, but it's a starting place. Also, the Technorati site has some pretty specific information: http://www.technorati.com/developers/ping/ thanks David From peter at easylistbox.com Fri Mar 18 16:12:35 2005 From: peter at easylistbox.com (Peter Brunone (EasyListBox.com)) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:12:35 -0700 Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [thelist] How do you ping in asp? Message-ID: <24a28083bc7e459a9ce5d8d56a086d27@easylistbox.com> ???Funny how the clued-in people waited until AFTER we made fools of ourselves before they chimed in :-D ???Nice of the blogger community to hijack that term for their own purposes; it's not often that I can say I learned something today, and furthermore, that I'm annoyed by it. ;-) From: Mattias Thorslund mattias at inreach.com I think several respondents have misunderstood: As I understand it, "ping" is also blog-speak for automated notifications that a blog site has been updated. Check out http://pingomatic.com/. Several more links from there. Good luck! /Mattias Christian Anderson wrote: >Hi, > >I'm making a blog in ASP and I am at the point now where I'm going to set up >pinging when new posts are published. > >How does this work exactly? Do you have to pass some kind of parameters to >the sites that accept pings? > >Chris > >Christian Anderson ????????????? From volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 16:16:01 2005 From: volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?VOLKAN_=C3=96Z=C3=87EL=C4=B0K?=) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:16:01 +0200 Subject: [thelist] What is the ideal session timeout (JSP) Message-ID: Hello, I know this is a classical question. But I'd be glad to hear your opinions. We have a server with 4 CPU's and 4 Gig of ram. (I don't know the exact configuration but it's a goooood server I can say.) We have a database on another machine but on the same LAN with the web server. So we have a three-tier application but we can think as if it were 2-tier for practical means. Our a web application uses JSP and stateless session beans. The only thing we put on the session is a user object, which is not a bean but a session variable, that takes less than 4KB of memory. We expect to have several thousands of concurrent connections (2000-3000) from all around the country at peak times. (The application is a finance application where everyone will be entering and modifying texts, reading, inserting and updating the database.) The app is currently in its alpha testing phase. And I want to be sure of anything that may impact performance and security. First question. We use several hidden iframes and we load data asynchronously from the server into those iframes when necessary. This implementation is chosen because we do not want to post back the entire page to the server upon each client request. Our approach negatively impacts the first load of the application (it takes around 90 seconds in a dialup connection) But since most of the files used by the iframes are cached, the load time decreases to 10 seconds upon the second refresh. And after first load, the user never requires to refresh the page fully. That is to say, to reduce the server load, we designed a fat client. Is is ta relevant approach. What are its pros and cons? Secondly, we use several HTC components and IE dependent code to make life easier for clients. Since only our agents will be using the application, we can force them use IE. Does this (using IE dependent HTC components) make sense? Thirdly, I've heard that HTC components had security leaks. Can anyone point me an article on this. And finally, will large session timeouts (say 3 hours per sesion) lead a significant performance degredation? (our users will be entering large texts, while making phone calls, examining papers etc... Being idle for an hour and losing everything they have written in a textbox upon session timeout will be a nightmare for them. i. Shall we implement a timeout counter which alerts user something like "your session will be expired in 10 minutes if you don't save your work" ? ii. A simple calculation leads 3000 users * 4K of session data = 12 MB, which can be neglected in a 4 giga byte ram. Am I under-estimating? (note that I just consider "memory" optimization, security is another issue, the computers will not be publicly accessible, they will be used by the staff, and thus can be considered secure enough. ) So what other things in terms of memory usage do I have to consider when optimizing the sesion timeouts. Sorry if I am too inquisitive, but it's a critical application. and thanks so much in advance. Cheers, Volkan. From hassan at webtuitive.com Fri Mar 18 16:17:09 2005 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:17:09 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Proceed to Checkout - Authorize.net Question In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D289@smtmb.tmc.local> References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7D289@smtmb.tmc.local> Message-ID: <423B5365.7090002@webtuitive.com> Rob Smith wrote: > set my gears in motion to POST the information back to my designated receipt > page. And I found out that everything I send to Authorize.net is echoed back > to me. Well, not entirely -- they don't return the CC info, for instance. But remember, you're POSTing the data to Authorize.net and getting a response, which if I recall is just a comma-delimited string, so the fields are positionally relevant, the first being the 'Response Code'. So I'm not sure your PHP code is going to work, but I won't swear to it since I don't use PHP often. > I'm going to have a friend test this out tonight with me. Authorize.net said > I can't use my own card on my own business. Yeah, but they provide 1) a test server, and 2) a test mode for the live server, as well as dummy CC#s specifically for testing. So I'd be taking advantage of that to check my process... Again, that's in the docs too. FWIW! -- Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. From court3nay at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 16:26:54 2005 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 09:26:54 +1100 Subject: [thelist] XMLhttpRequest, javascript arrays? In-Reply-To: References: <4b430c8f05031723532dd58315@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b430c8f050318142664d5baf4@mail.gmail.com> Yes, every (99%) implementation of the XMLhttpblahblah has used the if (request_in_progress) return false; however I have a few power users who are *really* quick, and this way we can keep queueing up the requests as fast as they can enter 'em, and the interface is snappy-as-hell. .. except if they abort the requests by hitting Reload, in which case the data is lost. I haven't seen any other threaded implementation like this one.. hopefully it'll help people out, I should get a blog and write this up ;) --c On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 17:42:16 -0400, Juan Cataldo wrote: > > So far, I disable the triggering control when sending the request, and > enable it back after processing the response. Thus, there is always > only one request/response pair on the line. > > I realize maybe this won't be a real solution for your problem, but > may help on similar scenarios. > > -- > Juan M. Cataldo From volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 16:42:37 2005 From: volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?VOLKAN_=C3=96Z=C3=87EL=C4=B0K?=) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:42:37 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Browser Based WYSIWYG Editors In-Reply-To: <3fb252250503181017489487fc@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b430c8f05031802355ca934a8@mail.gmail.com> <423ad96a.1d997418.1bc6.ffff8889SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> <3fb252250503180859ec3f315@mail.gmail.com> <423B0E30.4060308@alphanumeric.cz> <3fb252250503181017489487fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Technically speaking Opera does not support design mode / contenteditable mode. You cannot even get a selected text in a textarea or the cursor position of the textareea in Opera. I'd be glad if they supported. But I don't think they plan to add support to these issues in the short run. The only thing you can do for Opera is to is to make the richtextedit component degrade gracefully. There are several rte components that work in mozilla, NS and IE together. Which is good enough since mozilla and IE cover more than 95% of the audience in practical web applications. Since you are creating a CMS, you can force or at least suggest users to use a certain technology in the backend. Imho for CMS systems, it's sufficient enough to make front end render and function almost equally in all browsers (including lynx, braille displays if you consider accessibility as a part of functionality). You can be more relaxed on the backoffice side. Else you wil be limited to simple textboxes. You will ask users to enter proper HTML and validate the HTML on the client side or server side (possible using dozens of regexps, which is a though-enough process on its own). blogger has a nice wysiwyg editor which produces valid XHTML code. You may consider reverse-engineering it. as per flash, its formatting capabilitiy is limited and you cannot generate images, tables etc. The html code it produces is a garbage as well. cheers. Volkan. On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:17:57 -0600, Scott Wehrenberg wrote: > On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:21:52 +0100, Jan Brasna wrote: > > > 1) Cross-browser: [...] Opera, [...] > > > > I'm afraid none of them works in Opera (however *not sure*). > > > > True as far as I can tell. The only option I've seen that might work > in Opera is flash or java based which I'm not really interested in. > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From ian at zstudio.co.uk Fri Mar 18 16:51:02 2005 From: ian at zstudio.co.uk (Ian Anderson) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 22:51:02 +0000 Subject: [thelist] What is the ideal session timeout (JSP) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <423B5B56.6020305@zstudio.co.uk> VOLKAN ?Z?EL?K wrote: >And finally, will large session timeouts (say 3 hours per sesion) lead >a significant performance degredation? (our users will be entering >large texts, while making phone calls, examining papers etc... Being >idle for an hour and losing everything they have written in a textbox >upon session timeout will be a nightmare for them. > >i. Shall we implement a timeout counter which alerts user something >like "your session will be expired in 10 minutes if you don't save >your work" ? > On a web application I am building presently, I have a similar situation though not with such critical security requirements as finance. The user has a browser window open for several hours; in order to avoid long sessions clogging up the server, or the risks and inconvenience you describe if the session expires on the user, I have implemented a "log'em in again" system. When a user logs in and indicates they wish to stay logged in, my application delivers a long random key as a cookie, as well as storing it in a keys table associated with the most recent successful login for the user. Once the session (set to 20 minutes as usual in ASP) has expired, on a subsequent request that would otherwise be bounced owing to the expiration of the normal ASP session variable, the application checks the http request for a cookie key and validates it automatically; if the key is present in the keys table, then the user is logged back in silently. Would this be a suitable approach for you? Can anyone see any gaping holes in such a system? [Thinking out loud] With any system that allows users to stay logged in for extensive periods like you're describing, it is probably a good idea to force the user to re-confirm their password before allowing any critical operations, in case the user leaves their screen for a few minutes and a malicious interloper sneaks in Mission Impossible-style, and tries to empty their account/delete all their data while they're in the loo. [Note to self - must remember to do this where relevant in my app!] HTH Ian PS - Volkan, you might want to think about offering a keyboard shortcut to save data and remain on the current screen. We had this on an internal web application we used for managing web site testing where a form would be onscreen for ten to twenty minutes, and it was really useful as a prevention against unexpected quitting, system hanging or whatever when you have a reasonable amount of work entered in a browser window. Ours simply used accesskey 'S' on a form button. Worked really well. From david at gigawatt.com Fri Mar 18 17:01:38 2005 From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:01:38 -0500 Subject: [thelist] XMLhttpRequest, javascript arrays? References: <4b430c8f05031723532dd58315@mail.gmail.com> <4b430c8f050318142664d5baf4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <022601c52c0e$71f7b2b0$6756a8c0@trafficmac.local> Courtenay wrote: > Yes, every (99%) implementation of the XMLhttpblahblah has used the > > if (request_in_progress) return false; > > however I have a few power users who are *really* quick, and this way > we can keep queueing up the requests as fast as they can enter 'em, > and the interface is snappy-as-hell. > > .. except if they abort the requests by hitting Reload, in which case > the data is lost. > > I haven't seen any other threaded implementation like this one.. > hopefully it'll help people out, I should get a blog and write this up > ;) > > --c Or write it up and submit as an article to uh, i dunno... maybe that "evolt" site? :-) -dave From dmerrill at usa.net Fri Mar 18 17:53:54 2005 From: dmerrill at usa.net (Dave Merrill) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:53:54 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Centering horizontally on page, IE5-compatible Message-ID: Please excuse if this is obvious... Is there any css-based way to center a block element horizontally on the page that works for IE5/win? It also needs to work for other relatively popular browsers going back a ways, on Mac and Win and ideally 'nix. I have IE5, IE55, IE6, Opera75, and Firefox101, all on windows, and the following works for all but IE5: margin: 0 auto; Any ideas? Or is this just not possible in IE5? I may not want to know, but does the above code work for popular semi-recent Mac browsers too? Linux/Unix? Thanks, Dave Merrill From mccreath at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 18:05:21 2005 From: mccreath at gmail.com (David McCreath) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:05:21 -0900 Subject: [thelist] Centering horizontally on page, IE5-compatible In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51b07dc605031816053568779e@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:53:54 -0500, Dave Merrill wrote: > Is there any css-based way to center a block element horizontally on the > page that works for IE5/win? It also needs to work for other relatively > popular browsers going back a ways, on Mac and Win and ideally 'nix. Centering with IE Win 5 requires some extra work. This page has some good tips. http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CenteringBlockElement From rogerharness at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 18 19:30:52 2005 From: rogerharness at sbcglobal.net (Roger H.) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 17:30:52 -0800 Subject: [thelist] determine if a server is running unix Message-ID: Evolters, Is there a way to remotely tell if an intranet's server is running some form of UNIX or not? I get a chance to work on an online database application, IF they have MySQL/PHP running, or at least the potential. I had someone upload a info.php file with the in it, but it only printed that to the web page. Does that automatically mean the server does NOT have PHP installed, or isn't even a unix server?? a windows server could no way run that file, right? Sorry for such a dumb question, I just can't seem to figure this out. As always, TIA. -Roger Harness -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 From hassan at webtuitive.com Fri Mar 18 19:46:02 2005 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 17:46:02 -0800 Subject: [thelist] What is the ideal session timeout (JSP) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <423B845A.5000100@webtuitive.com> VOLKAN ?Z?EL?K wrote: > That is to say, to reduce the server load, we designed a fat client. > Is is ta relevant approach. What are its pros and cons? Probably discussed in enough other places; I go back and forth on my own projects. A lot of it depends on the location -- that is, the available bandwidth -- of the clients. > And finally, will large session timeouts (say 3 hours per sesion) lead > a significant performance degredation? (our users will be entering > large texts, while making phone calls, examining papers etc... Being > idle for an hour and losing everything they have written in a textbox > upon session timeout will be a nightmare for them. > > i. Shall we implement a timeout counter which alerts user something > like "your session will be expired in 10 minutes if you don't save > your work" ? With as little as you say you're storing in session, I can't see that having *no* session timeout would even be a problem from a performance perspective, especially if the users are likely to be doing other things and hence have prolonged inactive periods. You don't say how much memory you're allocating to the container's JVM, or if you're using a particular GC scheme, but those are both things you can fine-tune as you go. There are lots of monitoring options. Given the description of the app, have you considered just doing a periodic save? Snag the contents of that textbox they're working on every 10 minutes and write to a temporary table or whatever? Why even make the user worry about it if you're already running a fat client with async communication back to the server? FWIW! -- Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. From lists at onlinetools.org Fri Mar 18 20:38:39 2005 From: lists at onlinetools.org (Christian Heilmann) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 02:38:39 +0000 Subject: [thelist] determine if a server is running unix In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <423B90AF.5000308@onlinetools.org> Roger H. wrote: >Evolters, > >Is there a way to remotely tell if an intranet's server is running some form >of UNIX or not? I get a chance to work on an online database application, IF >they have MySQL/PHP running, or at least the potential. > >I had someone upload a info.php file with the in it, but >it only printed that to the web page. Does that automatically mean the >server does NOT have PHP installed, or isn't even a unix server?? a windows >server could no way run that file, right? > >Sorry for such a dumb question, I just can't seem to figure this out. > > That is not true. I run PHP and Apache/MySql on my Windows machine and it works fine. What your test determined is that it does not have PHP enabled (that is when you have saved the file with a .php extension). You can use http://news.netcraft.com/ to test what a domain has running, for example: http://searchdns.netcraft.com/?host=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.php.net&position=limited&lookup=Wait.. From microme_2000 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 18 20:04:32 2005 From: microme_2000 at yahoo.com (BMP) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:04:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [thelist] Re: Spider attack Message-ID: <20050319020432.30726.qmail@web60903.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for letting me know that Mozilla Gecko was not a spider. That helped. Now I can recognize what is and is not a spider. The line at the end of this message is copied from my log file and shows how the Yahoo Slurp spider follows a certain subdirectory order. I am not sure how it got this order. There were over 8000 lines similar to these on my web log yesterday just by Slurp alone. Along with others, it consumed 520MB throughput, on a site that is total about 22MB in size! The same happens with MSN, and other spiders. I am wondering how to configure my site so that this kind of inter-directory spidering doesn't happen. Could that be the problem? At present I have about a dozen or so sub-directories, and try to put the same column of navigation links to the rest of the site on the pages of each sub-directory. Is this not a good idea? Any suggestions about the secrets of web design that optimizes spidering would be appreciated. Here is the example of a spider line that the web log showed. There were over 8000 of these with different combinations and permutations. "GET /concept/Nature/Articles/Gallery/Aesthetics/Philosophy/PhenText/Philosophy/Nature/Aesthetics/ HTTP/1.0" 200 43025 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Yahoo! Slurp; http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/ysearch/slurp)" --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page From dan.mccullough at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 20:08:00 2005 From: dan.mccullough at gmail.com (Dan McCullough) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:08:00 -0500 Subject: [thelist] determine if a server is running unix In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: netcraft.com On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 17:30:52 -0800, Roger H. wrote: > Evolters, > > Is there a way to remotely tell if an intranet's server is running some form > of UNIX or not? I get a chance to work on an online database application, IF > they have MySQL/PHP running, or at least the potential. > > I had someone upload a info.php file with the in it, but > it only printed that to the web page. Does that automatically mean the > server does NOT have PHP installed, or isn't even a unix server?? a windows > server could no way run that file, right? > > Sorry for such a dumb question, I just can't seem to figure this out. > > As always, TIA. > > -Roger Harness > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > > From evoltlist at delime.com Fri Mar 18 20:05:34 2005 From: evoltlist at delime.com (M. Seyon) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 22:05:34 -0400 Subject: [thelist] determine if a server is running unix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20050318220232.00abbe88@mx.delime.com> Message from Roger H. (3/18/2005 09:30 PM) >Evolters, > >Is there a way to remotely tell if an intranet's server is running some form >of UNIX or not? phone call to the server admin? >I had someone upload a info.php file with the in it, but >it only printed that to the web page. Does that automatically mean the >server does NOT have PHP installed Probably. >, or isn't even a unix server?? Not necessarily. > a windows server could no way run that file, right? PHP can run on IIS. Apache can run on Windows. regards. -marc -- Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com http://www.playyuhself.com/ From markgroen at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 20:16:10 2005 From: markgroen at gmail.com (Mark Groen) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:16:10 -0800 Subject: [thelist] determine if a server is running unix In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <23dbfbd1050318181651c6355f@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 17:30:52 -0800, Roger H. <> wrote: > Is there a way to remotely tell if an intranet's server is running some form > of UNIX or not? I get a chance to work on an online database application, IF > they have MySQL/PHP running, or at least the potential. Go here for "What's that site running?..." top left corner: http://news.netcraft.com/ > I had someone upload a info.php file with the in it, but > it only printed that to the web page. Does that automatically mean the > server does NOT have PHP installed, or isn't even a unix server?? a windows > server could no way run that file, right? That just means that php hasn't been activated. Windows runs php the same way as Unix, the server enviroment variables returned will be different though of course. If it's an recent Apache server, it should be there by default and they have turned it off, not sure about php being a default on IIS though, but it's something that should be easily bolted on iirc. cheers, Mark MG Web Services www.mgwebservices.ca Your Canadian West Coast web site development and hosting solution. From bedouglas at earthlink.net Fri Mar 18 21:49:03 2005 From: bedouglas at earthlink.net (bruce) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 19:49:03 -0800 Subject: [thelist] determine if a server is running unix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <097901c52c36$995cd060$0301a8c0@Mesa.com> roger, i have no idea what you;r etrying to ask.... if you want to know how to find out what a server is running, it's impossible if the user has disabled the ability for the server to return that information. however, if you search google, you'll find certain tools that you can use to hit a server with. some of these tools return the variant of web server/os, if the server is configured to return this information. php can be run on both windows/linux/unix/solaris web servers. does this help? -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Roger H. Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 5:31 PM To: evolt list Subject: [thelist] determine if a server is running unix Evolters, Is there a way to remotely tell if an intranet's server is running some form of UNIX or not? I get a chance to work on an online database application, IF they have MySQL/PHP running, or at least the potential. I had someone upload a info.php file with the in it, but it only printed that to the web page. Does that automatically mean the server does NOT have PHP installed, or isn't even a unix server?? a windows server could no way run that file, right? Sorry for such a dumb question, I just can't seem to figure this out. As always, TIA. -Roger Harness -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 From richard.bennett at skynet.be Sat Mar 19 02:10:55 2005 From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 09:10:55 +0100 Subject: [thelist] determine if a server is running unix In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200503190910.55342.richard.bennett@skynet.be> On Saturday 19 March 2005 02:30, Roger H. wrote: > a windows > server could no way run that file, right? If you want a quick and easy apache/php/mysql install on windows check this out: http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html HTH Richard. From thelist at meidomus.com Sat Mar 19 02:38:54 2005 From: thelist at meidomus.com (Burhan Khalid) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 11:38:54 +0300 Subject: [thelist] determine if a server is running unix In-Reply-To: <23dbfbd1050318181651c6355f@mail.gmail.com> References: <23dbfbd1050318181651c6355f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <423BE51E.7010006@meidomus.com> Mark Groen wrote: > On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 17:30:52 -0800, Roger H. <> wrote: > > >>Is there a way to remotely tell if an intranet's server is running some form >>of UNIX or not? I get a chance to work on an online database application, IF >>they have MySQL/PHP running, or at least the potential. > > > Go here for "What's that site running?..." top left corner: > http://news.netcraft.com/ iirc, this uses the server signature to find out what the server is running. In PHP, you can disable advertising PHP in the signature via a directive in php.ini[1]. There is no reliable way to find out if the server is running MySQL (other than to ask the server admin). [1] http://www.php.net/manual/en/ini.core.php#ini.expose-php From evolt at kasimir-k.fi Sat Mar 19 03:37:40 2005 From: evolt at kasimir-k.fi (Kasimir K) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 09:37:40 +0000 Subject: [thelist] determine if a server is running unix In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <423BF2E4.5030907@kasimir-k.fi> Roger H. scribeva in 2005-03-19 01:30: > Is there a way to remotely tell if an intranet's server is running some form > of UNIX or not? > I had someone upload a info.php file with the in it, but > it only printed that to the web page. Just have a look at the HTTP-headers. They often tell something like: Server: Apache/2.0.47 (Unix) or: Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0 and the server on my lap top tells: Server: Apache/2.0.48 (Win32) PHP/4.3.4 Not all servers tell what os they are running though, Google says just: Server: GWS/2.1 And Yahoo tells nothing. To view the headers, you can download for Firefox LiveHTTPHeaders extension [0], Fiddler [1] does the job too (requires .NET Framework), as does command line tool Curl [2] - very worthy inclusion in any toolbox. .k [0] http://livehttpheaders.mozdev.org/ [1] http://www.fiddlertool.com/fiddler/ [2] http://curl.haxx.se/ From antonio.angelo at poste.it Sat Mar 19 04:38:16 2005 From: antonio.angelo at poste.it (Antonio Angelo) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 11:38:16 +0100 Subject: [thelist] problems with php_mysqli.dll and php 4.3 Message-ID: Hi all! I'm rather new with PHP and would like to work with PHP 4.3 and mysqli (that is designed to work with PHP version 4.1.3 or above). Simple queries are OK with mysql but I've setup problems with mysqli. This is my environment: -Windows XP Home Version 5.1 (Build 2600: Service Pack 2) -PHP Version 4.3.10 -Xitami 2.5c2 -MySQL version: 4.1.10-nt In a different machine a rather similar configuration (IIS; mySql 4.1.6gamma-nt; php 5.1.2) is OK, but I need to work under Win-XP Home. Php 4.3 distribution comes with mysql embedded and no php_mysqli.dll so I've copied php_mysqli.dll (from the other installation) in php/ext and added the line extension=php_mysqli.dll but php cannot find it. Why? How can I solve that? Thanks! Bye, Antonio mailto:antonio.angelo at poste.it From dmerrill at usa.net Sat Mar 19 08:02:20 2005 From: dmerrill at usa.net (Dave Merrill) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 09:02:20 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Centering horizontally on page, IE5-compatible In-Reply-To: <51b07dc605031816053568779e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the steer. I knew about most of this technique, except that setting min-width on the body was new to me, to fix Navigator/Mozilla/win's handling of narrow browser windows. (Firefox 1.01 doesn't have this problem apparently, since I don't see it without min-width; don't have Nav or Moz, so didn't know about the issue.) However, a fairly serious problem remained, with an odd solution: Inside the div corresponding to #wrapper in the example, I have an h1, several

    s and a table (which really is a data table, btw). In spite of the text-align: left on the #wrapper div, the text in the

    s and inside the table cells stayed centered. Happens w IE6/55/50, Opera75 and Firefox101. If I apply the text-align: left to #wrapper, and also to #wrapper td, #wrapper th, and #wrapper p, that fixed most issues. However, items that should be right aligned in their table cells moved left, and couldn't be moved back, even with cell-id-explicit text-align: right. I don't understand why this is, since I thought the most specific spec should apply, but all browsers I have do this. Interestingly,

    s can be moved right this way, just not table cell content. Odd. The solution turned out to be one I don't understand either. Inside #wrapper I have three more divs, #hdr, #page_html, and #ftr, one after the other. If instead of setting text-align: left on #wrapper and its td/th/p's, I set it on those three divs, everything seems to work like it should, in all browsers I have. That's also better since it applies to all tags, not just specific ones I've seen have problems. I don't understand what principle is at work here, but I'll take it. For reference for anybody looking at this thread, the punch line code from the css-discuss page is below; more comments about it are there: Dave Merrill --------- body { text-align: center; min-width: 500px; } #wrapper { text-align: left; width: 500px; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; } --------- > > Is there any css-based way to center a block element horizontally on the > > page that works for IE5/win? It also needs to work for other relatively > > popular browsers going back a ways, on Mac and Win and ideally 'nix. > > Centering with IE Win 5 requires some extra work. This page has > some good tips. > > http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CenteringBlockElement From michele at wizardev.ca Sat Mar 19 09:05:03 2005 From: michele at wizardev.ca (Michele Foster (WizarDev)) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 10:05:03 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Display block on list items in IE Message-ID: <01d501c52c95$0877def0$a989fea9@mef> Hi Folks, Can anyone see what I've done wrong. The menu items on the left are not "blocked" in IE-based browsers. One must position their mouse over the words before the item changes colour (subtle I know) and the item is clickable. I'd like the entire width of the menu item clickable, especially the "Donate Now" block. Here's the template page: http://tinyurl.com/6jt3e Any other comments/feedback appreciated. Only the one template page is done at the moment (depending on when you look at it, of course :), print view is not done. Thanks, Mich __________________________ Michele Foster 402-100 Boteler Street Ottawa, ON K1N 8Y1 613-789-7079 mailto:michele at wizardev.ca http://wizardev.ca From markgroen at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 11:08:23 2005 From: markgroen at gmail.com (Mark Groen) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 09:08:23 -0800 Subject: [thelist] problems with php_mysqli.dll and php 4.3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <23dbfbd1050319090820311eea@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 11:38:16 +0100, Antonio Angelo <> wrote: > Why? How can I solve that? > Thanks! The absolute easiest installation of apache/php/mysql that I've ever seen: http://www.apachefriends.org/en/ cheers, Mark MG Web Services www.mgwebservices.ca Your Canadian West Coast web site development and hosting solution. From dmerrill at usa.net Sat Mar 19 11:08:33 2005 From: dmerrill at usa.net (Dave Merrill) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:08:33 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Display block on list items in IE In-Reply-To: <01d501c52c95$0877def0$a989fea9@mef> Message-ID: Not sure what the issue is with the menu. I have a page that does a much busier version of a similar thing, and does work in that respect, on IE6, 55, and 5. Other things don't work right in any browser except in IE6 but that does. It's here, FWIW: http://users.rcn.com/dmerrill/. (I have a Flash version in the works, but not soup yet.) Couple ideas, untested: - What happens if you set the list items to block, rather than the anchors within them? - How about setting the width on the anchors to 100%? Looks nice in general. I like the gradient highlighting for new menu sections, nice idea. Other minor things: - Is the dark green block in Radio Scripts link item in the nav bar there to indicate the current page? If so, it doesn't seem either very clear or particularly attractive (IMO of course). One idea that occurred to me (maybe bogus) for that indicator is to move the list-item triangle to the right side, point to the left. It would both be there, and leave a space on the left where it wasn't. - The logo in the lower right corner is pretty light. - As you mentioned, the hover color change in the menus is pretty darn subtle... - IE5/win makes a bit of a mess of the menu; not completely terrible, not the look you want though. HTH, Dave Merrill > Can anyone see what I've done wrong. The menu items on the left are not > "blocked" in IE-based browsers. One must position their mouse over the > words before the item changes colour (subtle I know) and the item is > clickable. I'd like the entire width of the menu item clickable, > especially > the "Donate Now" block. > > Here's the template page: http://tinyurl.com/6jt3e > > Any other comments/feedback appreciated. Only the one template > page is done > at the moment (depending on when you look at it, of course :), > print view is > not done. > > Thanks, > Mich > __________________________ > Michele Foster > 402-100 Boteler Street > Ottawa, ON K1N 8Y1 > 613-789-7079 > mailto:michele at wizardev.ca > http://wizardev.ca > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > From D.B.Smith at soton.ac.uk Sat Mar 19 11:20:55 2005 From: D.B.Smith at soton.ac.uk (D.B.Smith at soton.ac.uk) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 17:20:55 +0000 Subject: [thelist] Display block on list items in IE In-Reply-To: <01d501c52c95$0877def0$a989fea9@mef> References: <01d501c52c95$0877def0$a989fea9@mef> Message-ID: <1111252855.423c5f7779385@webmail.soton.ac.uk> Hi Michele, I haven't actually looked at your code (it's Saturday!), but I think you need to set display:block on the too. HTH, Dan Quoting "Michele Foster (WizarDev)" : > Hi Folks, > > Can anyone see what I've done wrong. The menu items on the left are not > "blocked" in IE-based browsers. One must position their mouse over the > words before the item changes colour (subtle I know) and the item is > clickable. I'd like the entire width of the menu item clickable, > especially > the "Donate Now" block. > > Here's the template page: http://tinyurl.com/6jt3e > > Any other comments/feedback appreciated. Only the one template page is > done > at the moment (depending on when you look at it, of course :), print view > is > not done. > > Thanks, > Mich > __________________________ > Michele Foster > 402-100 Boteler Street > Ottawa, ON K1N 8Y1 > 613-789-7079 > mailto:michele at wizardev.ca > http://wizardev.ca > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From markgroen at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 11:44:52 2005 From: markgroen at gmail.com (Mark Groen) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 09:44:52 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Display block on list items in IE In-Reply-To: <01d501c52c95$0877def0$a989fea9@mef> References: <01d501c52c95$0877def0$a989fea9@mef> Message-ID: <23dbfbd10503190944b063772@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 10:05:03 -0500, Michele Foster (WizarDev) <> wrote: > Can anyone see what I've done wrong. The menu items on the left are not > "blocked" in IE-based browsers. One must position their mouse over the > words before the item changes colour (subtle I know) and the item is > clickable. I'd like the entire width of the menu item clickable, especially > the "Donate Now" block. > > Here's the template page: http://tinyurl.com/6jt3e I usually apply the hover to the parent ul instead: