[thelist] dynamic font size

Jeff Howden jeff at jeffhowden.com
Thu Jul 14 01:14:37 CDT 2005


Felix,

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> From: Felix Miata
> 
> > > Which you shouldn't be doing to begin with.
> 
> > "Shouldn't be doing" works well in a vacuum.  However,
> > many a client and/or designer that the client trusts 
> > demand a presentation that requires a particular
> > font-size, relative or otherwise.
> 
> A competent designer who is also a competent saleman of
> his own work will teach that client that a particular
> size can only apply where he is in control of the
> environment; [...]
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As a developer, not a designer, I often find myself in a situation where I'm
working with a client who has a designer that they're working with.  Sadly,
that designer is probably not versed in the web, but too proud to admit that
to the client.  What happens is they pour their heart and soul into a
complete crap design only to have us (my business partner and I) come back
and ask for changes for numerous reasons (impossible to accomplish,
usability, accessibility, poor UI design, etc.)  No matter the effort we put
into educating the client, the designer hedges every step of the way.  Since
the designer has developed a rapport with the client over a long period of
time and we're the new ones on the block, the client will often side with
the designer even if that means going against our position which we've
backed up with mountains of information.  Or, even worse, the client backs
out of the discussion, putting the designer in charge of "interfacing" with
us to get the design portion of the project finished which means they're not
going to budge at all.

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> [...] that outside that realm of control there
> are unknown variables, not the least of which is no
> possible way to have a clue what that size is elsewhere.
> Displays come in widely disparate sizes and resolutions,
> from handhelds to big screens. Specifying in px is quite
> simply unacceptable, as there is no way to know its
> meaning (upthread message <42D515F0.4322 at ij.net>).
> 
> OTOH, % or em functionally can have the same problem.
> Since you don't know the environment outside your own
> control, you have no knowledge of the meaning of eg.
> 'body {font-size: 76%;}' either, only that whatever
> the actual settings, be it 11px or 32 actual default
> or anything between or beyond, you're making the body
> text rendering occupy 58% of the space it otherwise
> would.
> <http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/area76.html>
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I understand what you're talking about though probably not as well as you
do.

You take this approach to a non-technical client and their eyes will glaze
over.  Bottom line, most don't care unless it's not going to cost them
anything.  Even then, some are pig-headed enough to hold their ground just
because they can.

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> It should if your job as salesman is properly done.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

No amount of selling, badgering, information barrage, etc. will change the
mind of someone that cannot or will not see the value in said argument.

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> Down? Down to what? Some people need it scaled up.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

Indeed.  For those, they *can* scale up, no biggie.  Annoyingly (for a
designer) Firefox doesn't appear to have an upper limit.

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> That's why browsers have defaults, and why they should
> be respected. Teach them it's their job to maintain
> their own affairs, like it is the job of others to
> maintain their own. You can't know changing for someone
> unknown whose settings are unknown whether your change
> is better or worse or neither.  But, you can be certain
> that you will antagonize those who do act responsibly
> and maintain settings that do meet their own
> requirements.
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When told they should leave well enough alone, clients that are set on a
font size will ask what "most" of their audience will see.  When shown
approximately what they'll see, they'll exclaim that it loosk wrong and
simply won't do.  The argument goes sour when they figure out that the
majority of their audience will "suffer" (in their opinion) so that a tiny
fraction won't.

Many can counter with numerous examples of why that isn't good for business.
Since continuing to try to get them to agree with my position isn't good for
my business, I usually fold, chalk it up as another loss, and move on.

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> [...] Firefox [...] the ubiquitous junk browser.
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Agreed.

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> You're assuming that because the default defaults are
> too big for you, that they're too big for everyone else.
> That's a mighty huge assumption.
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Actually, you're assuming I'm assuming that.  I'm not the designer.

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> Browser makers are not morons.
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Actually, I'd disagree.

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> To think you are improving the web experience for anyone
> by imposing a deviation from the user defaults is
> rude if not purely arrogant.
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Perhaps.  If market research indicates that that decision negatively affects
only a fraction of the intended audience while considered acceptable or even
"the way it should be" by the majority of the intended audience, then I have
no issues being perceived as "rude if not purely arrogant".

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> The defaults are usable as they come. Most users who
> truly need them changed will find a way to do it.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

The second half of that statement is rife with assumption.

 [>] Jeff Howden
     jeff at jeffhowden.com
     http://jeffhowden.com/



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