[thelist] What's a Programmer To Do?

Wed Apr 1 11:00:32 CDT 2009

Hi Barny,

Jaxer is a server running on javascript. Server-side javascript.
With js and js libraries, DOM manipulation is very easy, whilst its
impossible or cumbersome with other server-side languages.
Jaxer can be used with other server-side languages. for instance a request
is processed by php, then output is passed to jaxer, then jaxer sends its to
the client.
So you can imagine doing some DOM manipulation after having processed your
page with php.

Buts that's for a quick use of Jaxer. IMO there is nothing ridiculous at
having js on the server-side.

See in the recent years, a lot of development, a lot of logic has moved from
the server to the client. Off-line webapps have appeard (with google gears,
AIR).
A lot of logic needs to be the same both on the client-side and on the
server-side. Forms validation is the easy exemple.
Having the same language server-side and client-side, its easy to just use
the same functions on both sides.
A lot of development time is gained, and there is more consistency in the
whole application.

Personnally I believe that server-side javascript hype will be bigger than
the RoR hype.

RoR has been attractive to a lot of webdevs, but it still has a real
learning curve despite all the "its a natural language" discourse.
Quite a few people have had difficult experiences with RoR, so the hype has
gone a bit down now.

IMO Server-side javascript is gonna to have a smaller learning curve.

I think its not really ready for production use now, but its good enough to
play with it.
There is also other options than jaxer for server-side javascript, but I
dont know enough about them.

I forsee server-side js to be huge by the end of 2010, so I am learning it
now in order to be good at it when there is high demand.
Of course this is a bet I am doing.

Olivier

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Barney Carroll <barney.carroll at gmail.com>wrote:

> Olivier,
>
> What exactly is Jaxer? From their site, I just got really confused. How are
> my 'DOM skills' going to help me build a decent back-end? Speaking as
> somebody who can deal with just about everything front-end but struggles
> with back-end and proper OO programming, the idea seems incredibly
> tantalising but also a bit ridiculous…
>
> Regards,
> Barney Carroll
> Web designer & front-end developer
>
> web: www.clickwork.net
>
> mobile: +44 (0) 7594 506 381
> home: +44 (0) 118 975 0020
>
> twitter: @barneycarroll
>
>
> 2009/4/1 Jon Molesa <rjmolesa at consoltec.net>
>
> > I understand the pain and am personally moving away from Wordpress to
> > CakePHP for the same reasons.  Upgrading is such a hassle and I can't
> > run multiple WP installs off one code base.  With Cake I have the core
> > in a system-wide location, apps in another, and html in the public
> > folder.  I can symlink a specific cake version to just cake, or keep
> > certain sites running on a specific version of cake if I like.  Or I can
> > upgrade them all by just replacing the core folder, in my case recreate
> > a symlink.  It's nice, clean, simple, scalable and I get to write the
> > site/application specific code while not reinventing the wheel with each
> > project.  I get the level of control I'm seeking as well.  IMHO, Drupal
> > is not a framework and there's a huge deal of effort spent to my
> > customizable user interfaces.  I don't understand that really.  Once an
> > interface is set up to add/edit/delete data the only time the interface
> > should change is if the data definition changes.  It just seems like a
> > lot of configuration that I'd rather not do.  That specific issue make
> > it difficult to deploy Drupal code to an already running live site.  All
> > the manual configuration that was performed on the development side has
> > to then be duplicated on the live site.  Drupal is nice to get a CMS up
> > and running quickly, but in my experience, it's more work than necessary
> > long-term.
> >
> > *On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 03:22:44PM +0200 Fred Jones <
> > fredthejonester at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:22:44 +0200
> > > From: Fred Jones <fredthejonester at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: [thelist] What's a Programmer To Do?
> > > To: "thelist at lists.evolt.org" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> > >
> > > I started off some years ago programming in Perl and then switched to
> > > PHP (not on purpose really). Of course HTML/CSS/JS/SQL are "par for
> > > the course" in my business, which is making small to medium sized
> > > sites for individuals, small businesses and NPOs. I then fell into
> > > Drupal (not on purpose again) and have been working with that for
> > > maybe 2 years. Before that I did a half a year with CakePHP.
> > >
> > > I am getting mildly tired of Drupal. One reason is that I just learned
> > > about the upgrade and EOL issue (Drupal 5 will be EOL'd later this
> > > year meaning no more security updates. I didn't realize that when I
> > > built over a dozen sites with it in the past year or so). Second is
> > > that Drupal is a lot about configuration and using available module
> > > code and less about just programming. I miss programming. I studied it
> > > in University and I like it but I don't do *so* much of it now. :(
> > >
> > > Could also just be that I am getting burned out of the same (Drupal)
> > > project I have been working on for almost a year. :)
> > >
> > > I was thinking of trying to switch back to CakePHP b/c the work there
> > > is inherently mostly just coding. But a friend said to me that, in his
> > > experience, the market is 3 to 1 in favor of requests for Drupal work
> > > than Cake work. I would also consider Ruby on Rails I suppose, but
> > > there would be more of a learning curve there.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I'm just wondering what people think--I *may* be ready for a
> > change. :)
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > > --
> > >
> > > * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
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> > > Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
> > --
> > Jon Molesa
> > rjmolesa at consoltec.net
> > if you're bored or curious
> > http://rjmolesa.com
> >
> > --
> >
> > * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
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> >
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> > Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
> --
>
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