[thechat] Palestinians

Sean German seanmgerman at yahoo.com
Wed Sep 12 12:33:20 CDT 2001


Howdy,

First, as an old webmonkier whose been on theList
since almost the beginning (95% of the time in lurk
mode) I have the utmost respect for the people who
continue to work everyday to make this forum possible
and contribute everyday.

Second, I don't expect my posts (or those like Ron's)
to change any minds.  Quite the opposite--I hope
anyone having knowledge I lack or spotting a lapse of
logic in my position will point out such shortcoming. 
Mostly I feel the need to post as an expression of
frustration as someone who grew up in the shadow of
the New York City skyline and had friends and family
who worked in the Trade Center.  (Thankfully all
accounted for and alive)  (Geesh...imagine referring
to Buckingham Palace or the Eiffel Tower or your local
world famous landmark in the past tense.  I have a
feeling I will never be fully comfortable with that.)

Third, the US of A, as a country and a people, has a
woefully rich history of doing bad things to our own
people and other around the world.  We are arrogant,
we are judgmental, we butt in where we don't belong,
we ignore things that demand our attention.  We are
also the best thing going.  I wouldn't want to live in
any other country in the world today.  Our police are
racist, our FBI cohorts with gangsters, our government
spies on its citizens.  And I still get choked up when
the national anthem plays before a sporting event.

Okay...that having been said, Palestinians.  Unless it
is found they had direct connection to these attacks,
the Palestinians are really an unrelated issue. 
Countries and groups who speak out and act against
Israel and the US of A on behalf of the Palestinians
or because of the relationship between those two
countries are seeking to muddy the distinction between
the good guys and the bad guys.

The arab nations wouldn't give a drop of sweat to
actually help the Palestinians.  They are considered a
low class minority.  When Jordan controlled the East
Bank, did it do anything to help the Palestinians? 
Did they take any steps towards giving Palestinians
their own land to control?  Israel ceded land to Egypt
over 20 years ago.  In that time, has Egypt done
ANYTHING to help the Palestinian cause?  Other than
attack Israel and the US of A, has any county in the
middle east done anything to directly help these
people?  As far as I know, Israel has done more to
help the Palestinians than all the other countries in
the region combined.  These people hate Jews and
simply use the Palestinian issue to justify violence.

So don't frame this war as two equally responsible
sides or as the plucky rebels fighting the evil
empire.  The Syrians, Saudis, Iraqis, et al don't give
the sweat off a goat's balls for the Palestinians.

As far as the appropriate reaction to these attacks,
only one course of action follows the lessons of
history.  The only complication is the group directly
responsible for the attacks is most likely not a
country.

I think of our response to the attack on Pearl Harbor.
 We not only declared war on Japan, but the Axis
countries in Europe as well.  All evidence indicates
Germany had no direct part in the Pearl Harbor attack.
 In fact, Hitler probably would of preferred to keep
the US of A involved as little of possible as long as
possible.  But Germany was a partner of Japan,
supported Japan, and deserved the focus of our
response.

Did Afghanistan have a direct role in these attacks? 
Perhaps not, but that does not resolve them of
responsibility.  We know Afghanistan, the government
and people, has supported terrorist in the past.  They
are an ally of evil in this war.  Same for a number of
other countries.

What about the innocent?  Innocents should be
protected as much as possible.  Innocents in New York,
innocents in Tel Aviv, innocents everywhere.  The
engineers running the trains in Germany may have never
directly killed anyone, but taking carloads of people
to their deaths is far from innocent.  Bombs are
dropped by a planes crew--a handful of people--but
they require the support of base crews, commanders,
the military infrastructure, the government
controlling that miliary, the people supporting that
government.

There are rebels in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in most
terrorist nations.  Possible allies who should be
protected.  Then there are those that support these
governments and are responsible for these actions.  An
government worker who never fired a gun or took
violent action yet supported actions that supported
terrorist has blood on his or her hands.  Hitler never
dropped a bomb on England.  Hitler didn't invade
Poland.  Hitler didn't collect the gold teeth from the
dead and dieing.  He just helped make all those things
possible.  Likewise those that support terrorists
share the guilt and should share the punishments for
these crimes.

Violence begets violence, two wrongs don't make a
right, a stitch in time saves nine.  Fine.  We have a
right to exist.  Israel and the US of A as countries. 
The peoples of those countries.  We have the right to
exist.  And we have the right to defend ourselves.  We
have the right and responsibility to act against those
that would destroy us.  Even Gandhi preached active
resistance.  He believed resistance should be
non-violent, but never passive.  Context does come in
to the morality of an action.  If I kill you for no
reason other than my enjoyment, I have committed
murder.  If you threaten to kill me and my family, and
I reasonably believe the only was to protect my family
is to kill you, then I have acted in self-defense.

My family has been attacked.  There is no reason to
these attackers will ever stop until either the
attackers or the attacked are dead.  Appeasement
didn't work with Hitler; it won't work now.  It's not
an issue of US of A troops stationed in Saudi
Arabia--these attacks are not on the Saudi government
or the troops stationed there.  It's not an issue of
the Palestinian situation--Israel has bent over
backwards to make reasonable deals with the
Palestinians.

It's not even a muslim-jew issue.  Judaism, Islam,
Christianity--we all have a common culture.  We all
hold Abraham as a fore father, we all believe in one
god, and all in these religions suicide is a sin. 
There is no teaching in Islam that indicates any
suicide bomber or anyone who high-jacks a plane of
civilians will spend all eternity in Allah's graces.

To think you can yell 'stop' at a bullet and slow it
down is nonsense.  I'm not telling you to support
military action in response to these attacks.  I'm not
telling anyone how to think or act.  History speaks
such lessons better than I could.  

Again,  it is not reasonable to think these un
provoked attacks on innocent civilians will be stopped
by dialogue or a better understanding of the situation
in the middle east or a negotiation of demands.  It is
not reasonable to expect any action by Israel will
satisfy those terrorists that want all Jews dead.

And that's...the rest of the story.


Thanks for your time,

Sean G.

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