[thechat] civilized vs uncivilized

[Erika Meyer]

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,46915,00.html

This interview is both frightening and fascinating.  (I'm learning to 
read around the ads.)

I am sort of moving from a state of horror to a state of shock at the 
sorts of things people are talking so blithely about.  "global ," 
"the civilized vs uncivilized world" (Putin said that.  lovely.) ... 
"civilian casualties..."  "innocent people will die" as a result of 
our efforts.

So let me get this straight: in order to defeat the "uncivilized" 
world, the "civilized world" is reducing civil liberties, declaring 
global war, expecting to kill innocents in the process.  Good work, 
guys.  Brilliant.

The thing that fascinates me a bit about all this is the type of 
figure Bin Laden is becoming, with US help.  He's turning into the a 
Geronimo-like figure.  I hesitate because I know that Geronimo, Crazy 
Horse, Sitting Bull et all were represented as hostile and dangerous 
Indians when in fact they were trying to keep their people's way of 
life intact. I don't know to what extent Bin Laden is misrepresented 
or not.

Remember Chief Joseph and Geronimo, how long they eluded US soldiers, 
how long it took to finally defeat these leaders and their 
followers...  how many innocents were shot or starved in the 
process...

The contrast between George Bush, who lives like the wealthy industry 
man he is... and Bin Laden, with his money hidden, his ascetic 
lifestyle, his tent, avoiding electronic devices... is interesting. 
They are so different but in some ways so similar.  Both are oil 
millionaires, for one thing.

The other thing that strikes me as odd... if this is a war between 
the civilized and the uncivilized... (or whatever... I haven't heard 
what Bin Laden's group calls it) and both of them are so willing to 
use violence to win...

This feels very disorienting.

Erika

erika at seastorm.com