[thechat] war phase 2

[Erika Meyer]

On the freedoms of the US being a result of nationalism, bloodshed, 
and warfare:

other far-less positive things are also a result of nationalism, 
bloodshed, & warfare.  For example, the degradation of the 
environment (land stolen from Indigenous and exploited/polluted for 
profit), the breakdown in the family (especially amongst minorities), 
inter-generational child molestation, rape, destruction of culture 
and languages, drug abuse, etc etc.

As for the first part: nationalism... nation-state-hood... 
absolutely, there is a core problem there.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.  That's the choice of nation-statehood.

D.Hawk's book "Chaordic Universe" and Leonard Schlain's "Alphabet vs. 
the Goddess" offer interesting views on how we got to where we are 
today, where we may be headed next.  In terms of power struggles...

Things are not always/have not always been the same... change happens.

... fingers... getting... tired.... now...

Erika

><diversion>
>I disagree with this, as warfare and killing do indeed come with the 
>territory if we accept the premise of national borders. Whether 
>nationalism is a legitimate phenomenon is a different issue - and 
>not one that we can fix today, or even in the near term. 
>Paradoxically, a major reason for the broad freedoms we have here in 
>the USA are a result of nationalism, bloodshed and warfare. I'm 
>speaking in the absract here - not about specifics. Don't mistake 
>these statements to be broad approval of all warfare as practiced by 
>the USA - that's a larger issue.
></diversion>
>
>Best,
>
>	- Joe <http://artlung.com/>

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