[thechat] war phase 2

martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com
Thu Nov 29 05:49:47 CST 2001

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

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Not sure if I agree with such a simplistic analysis, Joe.

Sure, bloodshed has occured. Sure, at a later point, some freedoms
(for those with money, mostly) have arrived. But you can't make the
logical leap of one causing and being a prerequisite for the other.

There are plenty of countries where the nation (relatively) peacefully
evolved into freedoms ('relatively' because there are always going
to be some reactionary elements of those with the power trying to
hold onto it by any means). There are plenty of countries where
the nation revolted but freedoms weren't established.

I'm sure we can all think of examples of both.


To:   thechat at lists.evolt.org
Subject:  Re: [thechat] war phase 2

Erika Meyer wrote:

> On the freedoms of the US being a result of nationalism, bloodshed, and
> warfare:
> other far-less positive things are also a result of nationalism,
> bloodshed, & warfare.  For example, the degradation of the environment
> (land stolen from Indigenous and exploited/polluted for profit), the
> breakdown in the family (especially amongst minorities),
> inter-generational child molestation, rape, destruction of culture and
> languages, drug abuse, etc etc.

I'll briefly note that you are not disputing my point - that bloodshed
in itself *has* paradoxically created freedoms for people in the USA.

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