Hugh, I'm also on the list of evolters from Portland; I'd like to invite or be invited depending upon the circumstances. I'm good friends with my inbox, so don't hesitate to say 'hi.' Beyond beervolt, I might add that on 5 Dec. there's a presentation/panel on Web Standards held by the Portland Multimedia|Internet Developers Group. Nick Finck and Ross Olson will be presenting. -- Ben Henick Web Author At-Large Managing Editor http://www.io.com/persist1/ http://www.digital-web.com/ persist1 at io.com bmh at digital-web.com -- "Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?" "I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid." "We will disguise ourselves as a cow." "Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"