this ain't no golden age (was RE: [thechat] Judge throws out hype rlink lawsuit)

Martin Burns martin at easyweb.co.uk
Mon Aug 26 16:29:01 CDT 2002


On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Joel Canfield wrote:

> --
> [ . . . ]
> > I'm firmly of the
> > opinion that shit has always happened with only small degrees
> > of variation - there never was a true golden age. These days,
> > we know about it better, so it's perceived to be worse than
> > it ever was.
>
> Well, if 'golden age' means 'nothing ever went wrong', true enough. But
> 'small degrees of variation'? I think not.
>
> Life *was* different in the past. Yes, there were certainly eras and areas
> where things were pretty nasty, but according to historians, never anything
> like the deterioration we've seen in human society since the beginning of
> WWI in 1914. It's an area in which I've done just a bit of research:
>
> H. G. Wells (1931, commenting on life since 1914): "Gladly would the prophet
> prophesy pleasant things. But his duty is to tell what he sees. He sees a
> world still firmly controlled by soldiers, patriots, usurers, and financial
> adventurers; a world surrendered to suspicion and hatred, losing what is
> left of private liberties very rapidly, blundering toward bitter class
> conflicts, and preparing for new wars."

Sounds like a pretty accurate description of the 19th Century. Or the
18th. Or the 17th. Or the 16th. Or the 15th, 14th, 13th or 12th.

> Bertrand Russell (1953): "Ever since 1914, everybody conscious of trends in
> the world has been deeply troubled by what has seemed like a fated and
> predetermined march toward ever greater disaster. . . . They see the human
> race, like the hero of a Greek tragedy, driven on by angry gods and no
> longer the master of fate."

But you read commentators in previous generations, and a large number of
them in *any* age were claiming that the world was going to hell in a
handbasket.

> Harold Macmillan (1980): "Everything would get better and better. This was
> the world I was born in. . . . Suddenly, unexpectedly, one morning in 1914
> the whole thing came to an end."

Indeed, there have been periods of upturn and periods of downturn. My
parents were firmly of the opinion that the continued improvement in
standards of living would continue for generation after generation, for
all those who worked hard. But then the downturns of the 70s happened. And
the strikes of the 80s. There is variation and cyclicality. But there's no
grand movement up *or* down.

> Maurice Genevoix, member of the Académie Française, quoted in the book
> Promise of Greatness (1968): "Everyone agrees in recognizing that in the
> whole history of mankind, few dates have had the importance of August 2,
> 1914. First Europe and soon after almost all humanity found themselves
> plunged into a dreadful event.

trans: We found a war happening to us, rather than to other people. And
suprisingly enough, war isn't a game.

Ask the Boers, for example. Or the participants in the Boxer uprising. Or
the rebellions in India. Or any number of non-pretty wars which took place
before and after.

> Conventions, agreements, moral laws, all the
> foundations shook; from one day to the next, everything was called into
> question.

Nope. The main difference in WWI is whereas with previous European wars,
polite people could largely ignore them, and still go for tea with other
polite people in countries nominally enemies, this wasn't the case in WWI.

> Dr. Walker Percy, American Medical News, November 21, 1977: "The whole world
> really blew up about World War I and we still don't know why. Before then,
> men thought that utopia was in sight.

Note 'thought that'. For those of a certain class, the period between say
1900 and 1914 (and indeed that between the wars) *was* pretty utopian. But
I dare say many in Russia would disagree.
> . . . More people have been killed in this century than in all of history."
Difference in scale because of the industrialisation of war, not in the
very nature of it.

> Konrad Adenauer, in 'The West Parker', Cleveland, Ohio, January 20, 1966:
> "Security and quiet have disappeared from the lives of men since 1914."

It's interesting that most of these people are commenting about the same
time... the 60s and 70s. I wonder if there's a common thread, comparing
the nice life that these people (and I'll put money on them all being
nice, middle class folks) had when they were children (and childhood
nostalgia is a common occurance) with being forced to look at some of the
social issues around them.

> No, it's *not* just that communication is better so we hear about the bad
> stuff more. Talk to a couple dozen people over the age of 60 or 70. You'll
> get a consistently different picture of life; rural, city,  whatever country
> you're in.

Yup, been there, done that. Funny, but I keep hearing about backbreaking
work from early teenage years, childhood mortality, prostitution and a
rigid class system which made it nigh-impossible to break out.

One *major* mitigating factor was the creation of the National Health
Service, and the extension of free education for all, both of which are
being rapidly eroded.

> An interesting comparison of two surveys taken in US schools, one
> in 1940, the other in 1982, regarding the top disciplinary problems:

*reported* in surveys... the methodology needs to be clear. Could be that
today, the respondents (students? teachers? media? parents?) are just more
honest about what's going on, and more likely to actually *notice*. Also,
what's the selection of schools? How much did the schools in each survey
take note of "things which don't really happen so much *in* school, but
the pupils affected are affected in their school life by what happens
outside"

Even the ancient Greeks thought their kids were way worse than they had
been in their day.

>
> 1940:
> (1) talking, (2) chewing gum, (3) making noise, (4) running in the halls,
> (5) getting out of turn in line, (6) wearing improper clothing, and (7) not
> putting paper in wastebaskets.
>
> 1982:
> (1) rape, (2) robbery, (3) assault, (4) burglary, (5) arson, (6) bombings,
> (7) murder, (8) suicide, (9) absenteeism, (10) vandalism, (11) extortion,
> (12) drug abuse, (13) alcohol abuse, (14) gang warfare, (15) pregnancy, (16)
> abortion, and (17) venereal disease.
>


Cheers
Martin>

---------------------------
"Names, once they are in common use, quickly
 become mere sounds, their etymology being
 buried, like so many of the earth's marvels,
 beneath the dust of habit." - Salman Rushdie




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