[thechat] King Preaches Abstinence to Parading Maidens

[Syed Zeeshan Haider]

From: "Chris Marsh" <chris at webbtech.co.uk>
To: <thechat at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: September 13, 2002, Friday 9:53 PM
Subject: RE: [thechat] King Preaches Abstinence to Parading Maidens


> > Muslims in any way. In Pakistan, "angraize" word is used for
> > the whites of Europe and America without knowing it's real
> > meaning. It means "Englishman" or "someone from England". It
> > is used just for a recognition. It does not contain any
> > intention of racial discrimination. All Africans are called
>
> So "angraize" is pretty much the same as "paki" in England? In other
> words there is nothing inherently derogatory about it (paki being a
> contraction of pakistani) but could be used in a derogatory fashion if
> the user of the word had the intent to do so?

The thing which matters is the emotions of the speaker of the word. White people
in Pakistan, who know Urdu, don't take "angraize" offensive. Because they know
we have no such intention but according to my knowledge (I've never been in
England) most English people use the term "paki" as an offence (although, in
Urdu "paki" means "holiness"). If you study Urdu grammar and dictionary, you'll
see that there is a word "inglistan" which means "England". There are two parts
of this word "inglis" and "tan". "Inglis" stands for "English" and "tan" stands
for "land". "Inglistan" is just an Urdu term used for "England". In Arabic and
Urdu, "Egypt" is called "Misar" (I think you know that Egypt is an Arab
country). When an Egyptian speaks English he uses "Egypt" because he knows it
means nothing else except "Misar". That's the case for "Inglistan" and
"England". "Angraize" (Englishman) and "Angraizi" (English language or related
to England) have been adopted from the original word "Inglistan". If someone
from UK speaks Urdu, he'll use these words because they are parts of normal
language.

> > "habshi" in Pakistan without any distinction of country. This
> > word is used for any black with African background. It is a
> > common word and does not contain any racial offence. This
>
> How do you know? Are you African? You cannot say that a word does not
> contain racial offense, as it is the listener that *takes* offense from
> its use.

I don't know about the Africans' emotions about this word because we don't have
much Africans in our country. Most Africans in our country are Muslims and are
respected as foreigners and Muslims. They come for studying in universities and
other educational institutes. Some African army officers come to get higher
training in Pakistan.

> You would have to
> break down all borders and standardise all laws, education, prices,
> standards of living etc. etc.

Just imagine for a moment. Won't it be an ideal perfect world without any wars
and other rubbish like that?

> I will have to call you on that. I have re-read all of the posts, and
> nowhere can I find clear evidence of racial discrimination. Please
> quote...

I have noted that John posts flames for me very often and he knows about my
racial background. It tempts me to think that he has some kind of racial
discrimination in his mind. This time also, he started to post flames.
http://lists.evolt.org/thechatarchive/Week-of-Mon-20020909/3612746.html

>His response was
> not aggressive, and is probably about as offensive to you as yours was
> to him.

He began to post flames first and I had to reply them in the same way.

>My advice would be that if you make the decision to allow
> yourself to become offended so easily, it may be better not to involve
> yourself in debates.

I did not asked John to post any reply to me. Erika wrote something about Islam
and in reply I tried to remove a misunderstanding about Islam. I had no idea
that John would reply and the reply would be such an offensive. Others also
disagree and challenge my opinions but none of them uses such offensive language
like John does. I must expect flames from Madhu on racial bases because he is an
Indian and I am a Pakistani. However, Madhu has never done so and he has been
very friendly to me. That's why I like Madhu and I never think about his
nationality unless I am curious about something in India (as a neighbouring
country). I think Madhu is one of my best friends in this forum.

Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/