Today, the cows mooved Ken Kogler to write: > > > BTW, is Manchester considered to be in the North or is it really in > > > the % Midlands? > > > It really is in the Midlands. But when you see signs saying > > "The North" when you're leaving the M25, you realise that to > > South East England, *anything* northernly is "The North". > > Sounds a lot like Chicago compared to the rest of Illinois. Here in > Chicago, anything not actually in Chicago or it's suburbs is referred to > as "Southern Illinois". Proving once again that the midwestern states are all just funny-shaped permutations of Michigan, mostly upside-down: Similarly to Ken's Illinois, here we pretty much have Detroit/Ann Arbor and 'outstate'. The maps pretty much might as well say 'Here bee Snow-beastes' for the rest of the state, as far as Detroit cares. (THat would be all 10-12 hours of the rest of the state. Or would be, if there were actual freeways in the UP. As it is, it's closer to 14-15 with the near-surface-road-quality highways they have up there. . . .) (For those for whom that last bit made no sense, lay your right hand down on your desk, palm up. That's Detroit in the lower-right corner, where your thumb meets your wrist. It's about 6-8 hrs to the Mackinaw Strait at the tip of your middle finger. People have tried to figure out how to make your left hand look like the other third of the state, but you'll just have to get an atlas. Or http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?zoom=2&state=mi . According to Mapquest directions, it's about 13.5h to Ironwood, at the tip of the upper peninsula, from Detroit, which is 1h+ from the southern border. It's a biiig state.) -- Jonathon Isaac Swiderski \\ dangercat-20 at dangercat.net cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders \\ www.dangercat.net/?id=mt Alcohol and Calculus do not mix. Never drink and derive.