[thechat] House of Lords (was: US Elections)

[Martin Burns]

On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 04:50  am, Erik Mattheis wrote:

> At 1:47 AM +0000 11/8/02, John Handelaar wrote:
>> childcare, then used what can only be described as
>> heavy muscle bullying tactics to force the (unelected)
>> Lords to not obstruct it.
>
> The House of Lords actually has power that's not merely advisory?
> Something had led me to believe they were just honorary posts ...
>
> So it seems in a way they're similar to the US's Supreme Court? Can
> they really prevent legislation from going through?

They can delay and revise legislation.

After legislation has been through the Commons, it then goes to the
Lords for review and (possible) amendment. After that, it then comes
back to the Commons.

Theoretically, the Commons are supreme, but steamrollering legislation
through the Lords isn't really something the government can do without
sparking constitutional crisis. The convention is that the Government of
the day can only completely overrule the Lords on matters which were in
its election manifesto.

So if a party stands on a platform of (say) outsourcing all its hospital
buildings to the private sector, the Lords couldn't block the principle.
It *might* however add certain elements to the detail which make it less
practical.

Aha, this explains it a bit better:

http://www.parliament.uk/works/lords.cfm
> Following the Lords' rejection of the Liberal Government's budget of
> 1909, the Parliament Act of 1911 ended their power to reject
> legislation. A power of delay was substituted, which was further
> curtailed by the Parliament Act of 1949. The House of Commons can
> present a bill (except one to prolong the life of Parliament) for Royal
> Assent after one year and in a new session even if the Lords have not
> given their agreement. There is also a convention (known as the
> 'Salisbury' convention) that the Government's manifesto commitments, in
> the form of Government Bills, are not voted down by the House of Lords
> at second reading.

More useful stuff linked from:
http://www.parliament.uk/about_lords/what_the_lords_do.cfm
The Work of the House of Lords, Its Role, Functions and Powers
Bills and How They Become Law

There is a certain advantage to having a chamber which is independent of
the government of the day and the moodswings of the electorate.
Unfortunately, the current system does have its own bias from its age
and demographic profile.

As well as having hereditory and life peers, the Lords also has some
ex-officio appointments, specifically of Judges and certain Church of
England Bishops.

The judges make more sense in that the Lords is the final court of
appeal in English law. When the Lords sits in that capacity, it's only
the Law Lords who take part.

The Bishops are a bit odd - while they're officially there because the
Church of England is the national church, the effective line they take
is to provide moral guidance. And as such, the other religions are very
supportive of them, and aren't (as you'd expect) clamouring to have
equal representation.

Cheers
Martin
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