[thechat] rationality is not enough (was: New Year's Resolution)

[Seb]

At 05:14 04/01/2003, you wrote:
> > If spiritual phenomena manifested themselves
> > consistently and in some measurable way, we
> > might actually be able to study them.
>
>But then it'd be scientific, not spiritual, right?
>
> > If the Lord stopped acting in "mysterious ways"
> > (wats wit dat?) and just made an appearance to
> > clear things up, it would be so much more helpful.
>
>But then, arguably, that takes free will out of the picture... It could
>be argued that the Lord is forcing himself on us, and then the gift of
>salvation no longer becomes a gift, which means we don't have the
>opportunity to reject it, which means we are no longer free.

Not at all.

Free-will is independent of faith. Pretty much all religions (not all, mark
you) share free-will as one of their basic tenets.

So, if God appeared then that would reinforce belief in him. It would not
take away free-will, as you would still have the option to do as you pleased.

It's kind of like seeing a convicted murderer executed. You know that
that's what happens to murderers, but you still have the option of
committing the crime yourself, you just have to take responsibility for
your actions.

The french expression is "pour encourager les autres".

However, if God appeared, what would be taken away is the option to *not*
believe in him/her/it. Which kinda does away with faith, which is really
belief without proof.

I have faith in the big-bang theory, and there is evidence to suggest that
it might be correct, but there's no incontrovertible proof.

- seb