[thechat] better argument this time

javier velasco lists at mantruc.com
Wed Jan 8 15:06:00 CST 2003


Madhu Menon wrote:
>
> At 01:07 AM 09-01-03, javier velasco wrote:
> >i can also think of those crazy downhill MTB rides i used to do, in such
> >situation, you cannot ponder what's your best path, you just have to
> >FEEL the surface and how your bike is absorbing it, and let your body
> >react in a an primal (animal) form,
>
> Excellent point. I do the same thing in cooking. When I mince garlic in
> 5-10 seconds, it may seem that I'm not thinking before I make each knife
> movement. But you know what? I am. I'm just doing it a) out of habit where
> and b) thinking very fast.

That's on my list of goals: learn to use the knife much better!

> When you start riding the MTB down the hill, were you an expert from day
> one? Did you start off just knowing how to react? Probably not. After many
> such rides, you're mentally conditioned to act without thinking (or so you
> think.) What's happening is that your CPU is just doing a pattern match in
> your head to previous experiences and doing some ultra-fast calculations.
> If it weren't, you should've been a guru from day one. That you are not
> shows that your feeling the surface and riding is a *learned* response.

There sure is learning process involved, i can't even do the same things
on someone else's bike.

Of course I couldn't do San Carlos descent in 4 mins if I weren't riding
since age 5.

> Got an analog clock in your room right now? Take a look at the time. It
> probably took you less than a millisecond to tell the time, right? So would
> you say that you told the time without thinking?

To be honest, I still have problems with that (have to think about it
for some seconds) :(

I ditched the wristwatch years ago (made me rush all day), and the only
clocks in my house and office, are digital (computer, stereo, microwave,
palm, even car)

I really don't have a clock for time (or ornamental) purposes only, I
only have those things that come with a clock attached, LOL.

I look at the clock a couple of times during the day and use my
"biological clock" the rest of the time.

> >the moment you start thinking about
> >it, and questioning the situation, you're sure to fall down. the less
> >you think, the faster you ride. i imagine surfing is similar.
>
> Please don't tell beginner surfers not to think. ;)

when you are learning, you think, and take small waves, once you've
learned, you get into big waves where things get so quick that thought
is dangerous.


> Why is a martial artist with 10 years of training usually better than
> someone with just 1 year of training? Simple, he's better conditioned and
> has had much more practice. He thinks *faster* (not "doesn't think")

I don't agree, what I believe is that our body is more than our minds,
our emotions and body can also learn. There are things one does
withought even knowing how you did it.

If you really think that subconscious thought is rational, we're
probalby using different concepts for rationality.

Have you ever solved a problem during sleep? Would you atributte that to
reason also?

> I'll try and dig up some "official" material on this if you want, Javi.

no need, we won't get anywhere with this. i shouldn't have brought it
up. we won't change our minds.

for some people rationality is almost a religion - a way of life -, for
others it's "just a thing we do" (among others).

> (Master of 101 ways to kill people with your bare hands)

That's something I wasn't aware of!



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