[thechat] Religious dependance

[m-s s-u-c-k-s]

>From: Lachlan Cannon <luminosity at members.evolt.org>

>m-s s-u-c-k-s wrote:
>>i don't see how it doesn't make perfect sense.
>>
>>it makes sense to me because God allows free will in the universe.
>
>So what about people dying from cancer and disease? How is that
>something that must happen for us to have free will?

because adam and eve were given free will. there was also no
sickness/disease/problems in general. except of course there was the serpent
(the devil) who used mans curiosity/greed against him. as the story goes
adam ate the fruit and evil was let into the world.

i can't say that if adam never ate there fruit there would never have been
any earthquakes, but i would *guess* that there wouldn't have been any
earthquakes only because they can cause destruction/death/harm/etc.

therefore the free will of man is what ultimately allowed those things to
occur whether or not they are a direct consequence of action (std's for
example) or they are a by product of sin (adam's rebellion allowed evil into
the world, evil spawned diseases like cancer).

also, disease and sickness and such do not have to happen for us to HAVE
free will, free will has to happen for us to HAVE disease.

>>i'm sure you prefer to make your own choices don't you? would you be
>>willing
>>to give up your free will and be controlled by gods every whim if it meant
>>all those things you mentioned went away? i'm willing to bet you and
>>everyone else would say "no". i would say no.
>
>Of course I wouldn't, but again what does disease have to do with free
>will? What about earthquakes, lightning, hurricanes, tornadoes?

see above.

>>how can we hold god accountable for something that is not his fault?
>
>If he exists and really created us of course it's his fault. No-one else
>made the decisions, did they? They might have made the same
>decisions, but it was him, no-one else.

what do you mean by "no-one else made the decisions, did they?" i'm not sure
what "decisions" you are referring to. i will try to respond anyway.

god made the decision to create man and give him a free will. we made all
the decisions after that. how can you blame god for the decisions we have
made with our own free will? if you want to blame someone blame adam not
god. god's out of the loop. he made the tool, we used it incorrectly. it's
like guns and the old (but true) cliche, "guns don't kill people, people
kill people." if it wasn't a gun it would be a bat or a knife or a fist.

you don't give credit/blame to the company that makes the bat that hits the
ball, you give credit/blame to the person who wields the bat that hits the
ball.


chris.

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